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Dypsis lastelliana vs. Dypsis leptocheilos


junglegalfla

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I grow both the redneck & teddy bear palms. I believe it was Larry who asked how to tell the difference between the 2 palms.  With my untrained newbie eye, I made a few observations.

First the crown shaft. The teddy bear (Dypsis leptocheilos) fuzz is thicker and more pronounced.

crownshaftcomparision.jpg

Here is a side by side of 2 new spears. The redneck (Dypsis lastelliana) is much more colorful and actually is fuzzier

spearcomparision.jpg

and lastly a shot of the fronds.

frondcomparision.jpg

I do not have a photo but I also noticed the redneck retains some small black fuzz spots on the back of the fronds. I did not see the same on the teddy bear.

Hope this helps some.

  • Upvote 1

Bren in South St. Pete Florida

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Bren,

    If you were my student, you deserve an A-plus for your project. :D It clearly shows the differences.

Jeff

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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Give that girl an apple!

Very nice photos of very nice specimens!

"You can't see California without Marlon Brando's eyes"---SliPknot

 

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Great job Bren!  I always had problems telling them apart.  Now seeing them visually side by side, I can tell the difference!

Formerly Jeff in Costa Rica
 

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Jeff,

You SHOULD recognize the Dypsis leptocheilos!  :D Didn't you start that from seed? How long ago? May help in the growth comparison between the 2. I got the rednecks from Mike E so I'll find out how old those are. They both look just about the same age. I did notice that the redneck's spears open a lot of faster

Bren in South St. Pete Florida

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Oh how I wish I could grow Lastelliana.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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(LJG @ Aug. 24 2007,12:52)

QUOTE
Oh how I wish I could grow Lastelliana.

Len, I've got one doing just fine. Have you tried one before?

Dave Hughson

Carlsbad, Ca

1 mile from ocean

Zone 10b

Palm freaks are good peeps!!!!!

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Yep. It is slow and wilts away over time in the ground. That was actually one of the very first 'rare' palms I tried to grow. Fell in love with them in HI and tried here.

I have been to many gardens and have never seen an adult in SoCal. I have seen some good sized ones in ridiculous microclimates, but even those are brown tipped and anemic in appearance.

I think I have seen a pic of yours before. Was it outside this winter?

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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BS has a monster of a Redneck................and his palm is pretty big too!

(I feel wierd now)

  • Upvote 1

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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(junglegalfla @ Aug. 24 2007,15:17)

QUOTE
Jeff,

You SHOULD recognize the Dypsis leptocheilos!  :D Didn't you start that from seed? How long ago? May help in the growth comparison between the 2. I got the rednecks from Mike E so I'll find out how old those are. They both look just about the same age. I did notice that the redneck's spears open a lot of faster

Bren, I got those seeds in summer of 2001 and they started germinating within a few months.  I originally had 100 seeds that I split with a friend.  We got a very good germination rate, I think I ended up with about 40 plants.  I gave many of them to friends, sold some, donated some to be auctioned at a CFPACS meeting, and planted 3 in my yard.  The ones in the ground were growing at a much better rate than the ones in pots.  I got lazy and didn't repot a lot of them and they stayed in 1 gallon pots for quite a few years and stayed very small.  I think I gave those to someone right before I moved.  How long ago did I give you that one?  Was it the day we met when you came to my house to dig bananas?

Formerly Jeff in Costa Rica
 

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D. leptocheilos grows straight on the ground, without forming a heel, like a king palm.

D. lastelliana leans a bit, and makes a small heel.

(Post a picture to show . . . . when I get out of the Dark Tower . . . . .)

dave

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Jeff, I can't remember exactly when you gave it to me but I came across this pic from Sept 2, 2003...my how time flies..I know you gave it to me months before this pic because I did not put it in this fancy schmancy pot right away.

9c4f.jpg

Bren in South St. Pete Florida

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Oh shizzit...I am very surprised no one has commented on my fine pooper scooper in the pic  :P  :P  :P

Bren in South St. Pete Florida

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(LJG @ Aug. 24 2007,13:10)

QUOTE
Yep. It is slow and wilts away over time in the ground. That was actually one of the very first 'rare' palms I tried to grow. Fell in love with them in HI and tried here.

I have been to many gardens and have never seen an adult in SoCal. I have seen some good sized ones in ridiculous microclimates, but even those are brown tipped and anemic in appearance.

I think I have seen a pic of yours before. Was it outside this winter?

Mine is a small fry in a 3 gallon container and it made through last winter just fine! I was happy n' surprised as I was not sure if it could withstand the cold temps that we got!

Dave Hughson

Carlsbad, Ca

1 mile from ocean

Zone 10b

Palm freaks are good peeps!!!!!

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(junglegalfla @ Aug. 24 2007,15:39)

QUOTE
Oh shizzit...I am very surprised no one has commented on my fine pooper scooper in the pic  :P  :P  :P

I didn't see it at first but now I see it!!  :D

Dave Hughson

Carlsbad, Ca

1 mile from ocean

Zone 10b

Palm freaks are good peeps!!!!!

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Hi Bren, nice healthy looking plants there! However, your redneck (lastelliana) looks different to mine. Here's a couple of photos...

last-fur.jpg

last-petioles.jpg

last-leaves.jpg

Daryl

Gold Coast, Queensland Latitude 28S. Mild, Humid Subtropical climate. Rainfall - not consistent enough!

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I have a double lastelliana that is maybe 18 inches tall and in the ground here in Bonita (south San Diego, six miles from the bay).  The double is in nearly full sun and is doing quite well although it is slow.  I saw 30 degrees during our cold spell and it really did not show any ill effects.

Patrick

Bonita, California (San Diego)

Zone 10B

10 Year Low of 29 degrees

6 Miles from San Diego Bay

Mild winters, somewhat warm summers

10 Miles North of Mexico/USA Border

1 acre

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Sorry to disapoint, Bren. Mines certainly no larger than yours, but for "California size", it's huge!! :D

various8-10-07016.jpg

It also looks more like Daryl's.

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Bren/Daryl - those are magnificent specimems  :P  Bill - what can I say?  :laugh:

Los Angeles/Pasadena

34° 10' N   118° 18' W

Elevation: 910'/278m

January Average Hi/Lo: 69F/50F

July Average Hi/Lo: 88F/66F

Average Rainfall: 19"/48cm

USDA 11/Sunset 23

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?MTW

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Bill/Daryl,

Thanks for the pics! Bill, yours looks like Dypsis leptocheilos to me. ACK..we'll crack this code sooner or later  :P

Daryl,

Mine is still young compared to yours so I can't say mine won't resemble yours in a couple years.

Bren in South St. Pete Florida

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Looking at Bill's plant I would say it is a lastelliana, with the apple green rachis and general look of it. All of mine looked like this at an early age.

Bren, mine looked different to yours when they were young. I am suspecting you may have two different forms of leptocheilos. What you have labelled as 'lastelliana' even reminds me of my Triangle-Redneck cross when it was younger.

I have three different forms of leptocheilos growing here. All have subtle differences, and different growth rates, colouration, leaf twist, size etc.

All of the lastelliana I've seen have basically no petiole, and leaf habit is much more upright at a young age (pre-trunk). They appear to spread more once they have a decent amount of trunk.

regards,

Daryl

Gold Coast, Queensland Latitude 28S. Mild, Humid Subtropical climate. Rainfall - not consistent enough!

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Daryl, thats what I was thinking...more or less, just had no palms to back my theory up...well I guess I do. I have a leptocheilos almost as big, due for a box soon.

I should post my "Big Red".  15 gal but still small and REALLY slow. :(

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Regarding the upright fronds on the D. lastelliana: it's been my experience that they keep these upright fronds for a VERY long time - way beyond the time when they begin to form a trunk. Here's one of my taller ones. Trunk just shy of 14 ft (=4 m.) and overall height certainly at least 30 ft/9 m. Planted in 1998 from a 25G with no trunk, adding 14 ft of trunk in that time is not really what I consider slow (even though the D. leptocheilos certainly tend to be a tad faster).

post-22-1188081741_thumb.jpg

  • Upvote 1

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

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That twist is something I haven't seen before!

Frank

 

Zone 9b pine flatlands

humid/hot summers; dry/cool winters

with yearly freezes

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(bgl @ Aug. 25 2007,18:42)

QUOTE
Regarding the upright fronds on the D. lastelliana: it's been my experience that they keep these upright fronds for a VERY long time - way beyond the time when they begin to form a trunk. Here's one of my taller ones. Trunk just shy of 14 ft (=4 m.) and overall height certainly at least 30 ft/9 m. Planted in 1998 from a 25G with no trunk, adding 14 ft of trunk in that time is not really what I consider slow (even though the D. leptocheilos certainly tend to be a tad faster).

Bo

Did it have a heel root when it was younger?

regards

Tyrone

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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Tyrone,

I don't believe so, but I have to admit, I really don't remember with certainty!

Bo-Göran

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

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(junglegalfla @ Aug. 24 2007,15:17)

QUOTE
Jeff,

You SHOULD recognize the Dypsis leptocheilos!  :D Didn't you start that from seed? How long ago? May help in the growth comparison between the 2. I got the rednecks from Mike E so I'll find out how old those are. They both look just about the same age. I did notice that the redneck's spears open a lot of faster

Well, I hope everyone is confused.  I know I am.  If you look up the common name for either D. lastelliana or D. leptocheilos, they use teddy bear or redneck synonymous with either one.  Actually Bren, the one you bought from me was D. leptocheilos.  Now, is that a teddy bear or redneck?  I guess most references are the teddy bear.  Sorry for any confusion.  I think I will stick to the scientific name.  Anyway here are some garden pics of the leptocheilos.

DSC01178.jpg

DSC01177.jpg

DSC01176.jpg

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Mike, Those are some beauties!!  How old are they?  A few years ago I started a similar thread like this and after all the responses, I was more confused than ever.  Some books and websites call leptocheilos the Redneck Palm, and others call lastelliana the Redneck.  That's the problem with common names.   I try to refer to them as leptocheils and lastelliana instead of Teddy Bear or Redneck.  Until now I didn't know there were different forms of leptocheilos!  Brenda's two palms look so different to me, I never imagined they could both be Leptocheilos.

Formerly Jeff in Costa Rica
 

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Jeff, I put these in the ground about 6 years ago from a 3 gal size.  Three are lined up under the drip edge of the roof, & two were placed  8' away.  The 3 under the roof line get more water, & grow faster.  BTW, these were sold to me from a large wholesaler in south Florida, & were marked as leptocheilos, likewise with the ones that I sell in containers.  I go by how they were marked.  Just to add more confusion, here is a D. decaryi crossed w/ a D. Leptocheilos.  One way I can tell it apart is the triangle shape of the crownshaft.

BTW Jeff, would you recommend the move to Costa Rica?  I here a lot of good cheaper/better living down there.

DSC01179.jpg

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Bren:

Please show us pics of the bases.

From what I can see, looks like you've got varied D. leptos.

Bases matter, in this case.

dave, basically

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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I hate to say it, but from what I have observed the true D. lastelliana is VERY slow. It is more of a variable species than D. leptochelios and it is doubtful that there are any of trunking size in the US. The two names were used very often to explain one species (leptochelios), while the true one is quite rarer and not seen in many landscapes.

Brenda, the plant you have with the twisted and arching fronds (as well as others) might be the Fuzzy Triangle hybrid.

But hey, what do I know? :cool:

Christian Faulkner

Venice, Florida - South Sarasota County.

www.faulknerspalms.com

 

Μολὼν λάβε

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Christan,

I bet Mike's price just went up  :P  :D

Here is Mike Evan's palm # 1 (I bought 2 couple months a part) Shot of the base from two sides. Pink x's to denote the twists in the 1st pic.

teddybear001.jpg

redneck003.jpg

redneck001.jpg

Oh and as a caveat, let me just say, no matter what they are, they are gorgeous, well grown palms! I am happy as a clam!!

:D  :D

Bren in South St. Pete Florida

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Palm # 2 from Mike , same upright twisty type bought a couple weeks back

redneck006.jpg

redneck005.jpg

redneck004.jpg

Bren in South St. Pete Florida

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And lastly, another angle. My original different weepy 'teddy bear' grown from seed from Jeff in Costa Rica.

redneck007.jpg

P.S. I think I caught a ghost. WTH is that weird light blob on the right in the photo. ?!? ???  ???

Bren in South St. Pete Florida

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Judging by the bases, and lack of heel, I say they're D. lepto, and/or variants or hybrids but not D. last . . .

dave

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Hey Mike,

Nope! I love all my red fuzzed step children equally  :P. You grow some fine palms!

Bren in South St. Pete Florida

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(Mikein FL @ Aug. 26 2007,16:06)

QUOTE
BTW Jeff, would you recommend the move to Costa Rica?  I here a lot of good cheaper/better living down there.

Hi Mike, I would definitely recommend a move here!  It's the most beautiful country I have ever been to and the people are kind, gracious and friendly.  It's definitely much cheaper here than in the States for most things (except goods imported from the US!).  Land prices are cheaper too depending on where you want to live.  If you want to live in a touristy area (on the beach) like I do, prices are much higher for land.  But if you go inland a bit, or further south, prices drop dramatically.  

Because of all of the mountains and different elevations, Costa Rica has at least 12 different growing zones.  They can grow anything here from tropical fruits to cool weather crops depending on the location and elevation.  The ground is so fertile here that just about anything you stick in the ground starts growing!  They cut tree trunks into sections to use as fence posts and just about all of them root and start growing again so that you end up with a living fence.

Of course life in paradise has it's drawbacks.  Electricity sometimes goes out, internet goes out, some of the roads and bridges are atrocious, petty crime is a problem, and we do have earthquakes and tsunami warnings (near the coast).  Despite all that, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else!  The Ticos (Costa Ricans) have a saying - "Pura Vida" which I guess literally translates to "Pure Life" but it means so much more here!  

If you have any specific questions, please feel free to PM or email me and I would be happy to answer them!

  • Like 1

Formerly Jeff in Costa Rica
 

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