FOG

[Kim]

I read in the paper last week that Point Loma, where I live, is the foggiest place in all of San Diego County.  Often the short drive from downtown will go from warm sun to grey overcast as I approach the point, so I'm not shocked, but I didn't realize it is the foggiest.

So which palms really like it overcast?  I know certain palms must have heat to really thrive, such as Bismarckias, but can you tell me which palms delight in the fog rolling in late in the day and hanging around until late morning?

[madagascarbob]

Every palm from Lord Howe Island  ,New Caledonia ,and New Zealand!

[ghar41]

Actually, your area may be well climatized for some of the most unique palm growing possibilities known... involving some of the worlds most exquisite palms.  

Take a look at this link....

http://www.cloudforest.com/palms/

[ghar41]

Also...

http://www.junglemusic.net/palmadvice/palm...howe-island.htm

[Trópico]

Try Prestoea montana

[Scott]

Kim - I guess the fog would add a certain degree of humidity for the palms that would be beneficial? How about a Ceroxylon Ventricosum? This nice white waxy trunks are really attractive.

[Dan OKeeffe]

I agree the fog is not a bad thing for your palm garden.  In SF we have many foggy days and my Howea, Hedyscepe, Rhopalostylis sapida, Dypsis amb. are all doing great.  I know of ceroxylon palms that thrive in my area as well.  Since you are in SD, I image the average temps are higher down there and these palms would grow quicker.  

Good luck!

[kylecawazafla]

Foggy climates along the California coast are probably very similar to montane cloudforests along the equator, giving you:

Ceroxylon (all of them), Geonoma undata, Prestoea, Euterpe edulis, Aiphanes aculeata, Parajubaea, Ptychococcus lepitodus, etc..

Some others could be Pinanga gracilis/coronata, Ptychosperma elegens, arenga engleri, Pritchardia hilderbrandtii, and if you want to be experimental Wettinia kalbreyeri, someone has had this stilt rooted palm alive in Fort Bragg, CA for a few years now.

[MattyB]

Kim, Hedescepy is one of the most beautiful palms we can grow and just loves your foggy microclimate.  I think Ravenea glauca looks awesome grown in these conditions too (ala Dypsisdean's).  Cyphosperma balanse, Lepidorachis mooreana and the Ceroxylons are all good candidates to thrive in Pt. Loma.  How's the Carpoxylon?  Any clear trunk yet?  I got dibs on seed  ::

[Kim]

People tend to think you can grow anything in San Diego.  And I've seen some gardens that would lend credence to that idea.  But things MattyB will grow on sunny Dictionary Hill a few miles inland will whimper along in the fog out here on the Point.  To be more specific:  I have a dying Clinostigma savoryanum which, even before winter, was super-slow to open the one spear that emerged.  Why?  I'm guessing not enough heat.  Sure, it likes the humidity, but there just aren't enough 80F + days to please that palm.

MattyB:  for an update on the Carpoxylon, check the Freeze Data section.  I promise you're first in line for seeds.  Good thing you are a young man.

I do like the Hedyscepe idea.  I need 3 of something absolutely gorgeous and not too s-l-o-w and not ordinary.  Lush green tropical look preferred.

I do have Rhopalostylus bauerii, Roystonea regia, Hyophorbe verschaffeltii and lagenicaulis, Dypsis lutescens and baronii, Chambeyronia macrocarpa,  and numerous other palms that are doing well, I'm just bummed about the Clinostigma savoryanum because I know it does so well just a short distance inland, and I had deep palm lust for that one.  I knew the Carpoxylon was dicey, but I was confident about the Clinostigma.  Ok, enough whining.

I am excited about the Caryota gigas I'm planting; that for sure does well here on the Point.  I am open to any more suggestions, keep 'em coming; I will check them all out.

[BS Man about Palms]

Kim- I think the "neatest" oppurtunity you have is with the New Caledonia Palms!  A Kentiopsis Oliviformis would do great there, Likewise a Magnifica , Basselinea, Burretiokentia's a lot of Chamedorea would do pretty good there too.  (Like I said before, where you're at, you're looking for as much sun as you can find)

Lotso options!!  

[happ]

Kim

Have you considered shade-loving chamaedorea tepejilote?  I'm located 15 miles from the Pacific so total shade is best but tepejilote may do ok at the beach  ::

Glenn

Enjoyed the article on San Francisco palms; are there more chapters?

[DoomsDave]

Kim:

Rhopalistylus sapida rocks, much better than baueri, look for my upcoming essay in the Palm J . . . .

dave

[ghar41]

(Kim @ May 23 2007,19:01)

QUOTE

I am open to any more suggestions, keep 'em coming; I will check them all out.

Plant an entire grove of Ceroxylons and be the envy of palmophiles all over the world in 2027!  

[Darold Petty]

Kim, I envy what passes for "fog" in San Diego county!  My fog is so cold you can't walk around in the garden wearing only a tee-shirt!  All this week my daily high temp. has been about 60 F.   The photos at www.cloudforest.com are mostly of my palms, but the images are about 10 years out of date.  I agree with the previous suggestions, and would add Chamaedorea plumosa.  Clivia miniata grows well as a choice ground cover and is never bothered by mollusks.  The  common Dypsis sp. do grow for me, but very slowly.

[bubba]

Have you considered a Licuala Grandis? I bought mine at Fairchild, where all the specimens are in shade. Of course, our heat and your lack thereof may be a problem but it is such a beautiful palm that it may be worth the risk.

[Kim]

Bill-  Is the Kentiopsis s-l-o-w?  You mean K. magnifica? Is anyone growing Burretiokentia successfully in SoCal?  I find lots of gorgeous Hawaii pix, but no SoCal pix.  Not finding much on Basselina, can you tell me more?

Dave -- Look forward to reading your article.  My Rhopies are pretty, but small and slow.  I'm hoping they will explode soon.

Happ -- I do have a C. tepejilote and it requires shade to look good, even here.  For a while it got morning sun followed by shade the rest of the day, and it was getting too yellow.  Now moved to shade, it's greened up nicely.  Very sweet palm, I really love the bright inflorescences and contrasting seed (which I hope to get someday).

Ghar41: Grove of Ceroxylons for 2027 duly noted.  Old lady, small garden.  Need I say more?  Well, maybe I can squeeze in one.

Darold -- I know I should be happy with the climate I have!  But I'm still learning what works. Nice collection you have, and I envy that you started way more than 10 years ago.  Your suggestion of the Ch. plumosa would fit nicely, a couple here, a couple there.  My Clivia miniata, uh, needs more shade...

Bubba-  Licaulas are so gorgeous!  I don't think the grandis would make here in SoCal, just not tropical enough.  There are others that can do well, maybe elegans when I get more shade.

dokeefe mentioned D. ambositrae -- anyone know the speed of growth and density of crown (how many leaves it holds at a time) for coastal SoCal?

These are all great suggestions, keep 'em coming.

[madagascarbob]

(bubba @ May 24 2007,09:50)

QUOTE

Have you considered a Licuala Grandis? I bought mine at Fairchild, where all the specimens are in shade. Of course, our heat and your lack thereof may be a problem but it is such a beautiful palm that it may be worth the risk.

L. Grandis wont grow in Cali. but L. Eligans will.

[elHoagie]

(Kim @ May 24 2007,11:21)

QUOTE

Bill-  Is the Kentiopsis s-l-o-w?  You mean K. magnifica? Is anyone growing Burretiokentia successfully in SoCal?  I find lots of gorgeous Hawaii pix, but no SoCal pix.  Not finding much on Basselina, can you tell me more?

Kim,

I planted a Burretiokentia hapala in my old garden in Altadena from a 2 gallon pot in early spring 2005.  By the time I dug it out in Jan 2007 the base was probably 8cm (3in) in diameter, and the leaves were about 1m (3ft) long.  It was growing faster than my Chambeyronias.  I've also been growing a few seedlings in pots, and they are rockets.  I think it's definitely a good palm for SoCal.

B. viellardii has been another story for me.  These are slow, and my last surviving plant my be on the way out.  I think I've given up on this species...

B. dumasii and B. koghiensis have been growing well for me for about two years as small seedlings in my greenhouse, so I think these might be promising as well.

Basselinia gracilis has been another palm that's easy to grow for me.  I've had one in a pot now for about three years that always looks good.  The only other Basselinia I've tried is B. pancheri, and they were SLOW before they died.

Jack

[Shon]

Kim,how I envy your microclimate. You can grow pretty much anything from what I have seen growing on the coast in North County. Burretiokentia hapala has done great for me even made it through the freeze unscathed! Our own Dypsisdean has a beautiful koghiensis at his place in Leucadia. Something no one has mentioned yet is Pinanga. Coranata,elmeri,patula,javana all should do well for you.

[BS Man about Palms]

Kim-

JacK summed most of it up well.  The K. Oliviformis grows faster, same with the Pyriformis. The Magnifica is slower to be sure.

[tim_brissy_13]

Burretiokentia hapala grows very well for me, faster than Chambets, so quite cool tolerant.  I have kept a vieilladii alive for 3 years, but it is stunted and grows slowly.

Dypsis in the baronii complex will do well in the cool, and try Oraniopsis.

[MattyB]

Kim, one palm that seems to do good for my relatives in the cool zones is the Dypsis pink crownshaft.  Theirs looks better than mine in my greenhouse.  Go figure.  It's small too so you can stick it anywhere in your old lady garden.

[Kim]

(MattyB @ May 25 2007,14:08)

QUOTE

Kim, one palm that seems to do good for my relatives in the cool zones is the Dypsis pink crownshaft.  Theirs looks better than mine in my greenhouse.  Go figure.  It's small too so you can stick it anywhere in your old lady garden.

Thanks for the tip, Matt.  The garden is not an old lady, however.  More like a toddler in the terrible twos.  Is Dypsis pink crownshaft the botanical name?  Nobody will snicker at me when I ask for that?  Do you think these will be available at Quail tomorrow? If I find one, it's nice to know I can count on you to tell me where to stick it.

[MattyB]

Yeah, someone should have it @ Quail.  It's called Neophaloga sp. 'Pink Crownshaft' or Dypsis sp. 'Pink Crownshaft'.  Or if you wanna sound real official call it the "oogaly boogaly" palm.  They'll think very highly of you then.

[Matt in SD]

Hi Kim,

Maybe I'll see you and Matt (and whoever else is going) at the sale tomorrow.  I'll be hard to miss, with the family tagging along.

A couple comments and suggestions...

-I've also had great luck with Burretiokentia hapala, while my vieillardii died (but grew great in the ground for nearly two years...bummer).  I agree it's faster than chambeyronia.  I've heard khogiensis does even better, and in my opinion is a better looking palm (my hapala was purchased as khogiensis...bummer again).  The hapala is opening a leaf right now, while my clinostigma leaf that was opening during our heat wave a couple weeks ago has stalled again.

-My Dypsis pembana is growing pretty fast right  now, so it seems fine with cool whether.  It is the fastest Dypsis I've seen when it warms up, but is fast even when it's cool.

-Geonoma schottiana has done great for me.  I saw a large 5g plant at JDA last time I was there.  Geonoma undata might be good two, but it's definitely more finicky (my undata never holds more than 5 leaves, the schottiana usually has about 10 perfect leaves).

-Any Pritchardia (Hawaiian species) would be good.

-Try the basselinias...but everything other than gracilis is REALLY hard to grow.  I've killed several pancheri and a tomentosa.

-I just planted a Pinanaga javana and it has been growing very fast during this cool whether.  Pinanga kuhlii is also a good one, and can take some sun (not full sun, but some sun anyways).

-Most of the other suggestions (chamaedorea, ceroxylon) are great.

Matt

[NM_PALM_BOY]

Hi Kim,

That's OK...it will be 97F again in no time

Doug

W. LA, Westwood, CA (until Dec.)

[epicure3]

(Matt in SD @ May 25 2007,18:28)

QUOTE

Hi Kim,

Maybe I'll see you and Matt (and whoever else is going) at the sale tomorrow.  I'll be hard to miss, with the family tagging along.

A couple comments and suggestions...

-I've also had great luck with Burretiokentia hapala, while my vieillardii died (but grew great in the ground for nearly two years...bummer).  I agree it's faster than chambeyronia.  I've heard khogiensis does even better, and in my opinion is a better looking palm (my hapala was purchased as khogiensis...bummer again).  The hapala is opening a leaf right now, while my clinostigma leaf that was opening during our heat wave a couple weeks ago has stalled again.

-My Dypsis pembana is growing pretty fast right  now, so it seems fine with cool whether.  It is the fastest Dypsis I've seen when it warms up, but is fast even when it's cool.

-Geonoma schottiana has done great for me.  I saw a large 5g plant at JDA last time I was there.  Geonoma undata might be good two, but it's definitely more finicky (my undata never holds more than 5 leaves, the schottiana usually has about 10 perfect leaves).

-Any Pritchardia (Hawaiian species) would be good.

-Try the basselinias...but everything other than gracilis is REALLY hard to grow.  I've killed several pancheri and a tomentosa.

-I just planted a Pinanaga javana and it has been growing very fast during this cool whether.  Pinanga kuhlii is also a good one, and can take some sun (not full sun, but some sun anyways).

-Most of the other suggestions (chamaedorea, ceroxylon) are great.

Matt

I'll be there too. I hoope I get to meet some folks. I plan to be there at 9 on the button. The family is staying home. They're smarter than I am.