Dypsis prestoniana

[MattyB]

Here's a shot of my Dypsis prestoniana in a 2 gallon pot.  It's got a large heel and is continuously burying itself deeper and deeper.

[MattyB]

Now that the suns angle is changing my greenhouse is getting brigher and the Dypsis prestoniana is showing some sunburn.

[MattyB]

I've got 40% shade cloth plus the plastic blocks some, over my greenhouse and it's plenty for even the shade loving Geonomas, seedlings and Chamaedoreas.  But for some reason this Dypsis prestoniana does not like the sun at all.  I had this problem a bit last year too.  Anyone notice this with their Dypsis prestoniana?  When they get larger they can handle even harsh sun right?

[ellidro]

Matty,

I was at jungle music looking for this palm and every Dypsis Prestoniana I came across was yellowing badly.  Rusty seems to think they don't like the heat. He has two or three in a cool but relatively sunny part of the greenhouse that look perfect.  Hope this helps.

Nick

[Matt in SD]

That's weird.  I have four that are all smaller than those, 1g plants with the leaves just starting to divide.  They all look fine in my greenhouse that has 50% light transmission.  Maybe these have a timed "self destruct" feature when they get leaves over 12" long.  Wouldn't that be nice.

Matt

[Jeff Searle]

Matt,

    As I was reading down, I started to think about heat damage and not so much sunburn. I tend to agree with Rusty on this. These should take a fair amount of filtered light, even at a small size. Even a few hours of direct sun,either morning or late afternoon.

   Just wondering, do you keep the house closed up during the days? Did you have any ventilation?

Jeff

[Gtlevine]

I don't think it's sunburn so much as heat stress. As Jeff points out, lack of adequate air circulation combined with high heat might be the cause of this. Sunburn has a different look to it than your palms.

Gary

[tim_brissy_13]

I had a Dypsis prestoniana which I left in the sun last summer for no more than a week, and it became so burnt I brought it back under shadecloth.  The only green remaining on the palm was the petiole of the newest leaf.  Over winter, the palm's health did not decline further, but it didn't grow at all.  It finally died a month ago, after a very warm summer.  I would be surprised if heat is the killer, however, since I am growing Ceroxylon alpinum and quindiuense successfully.

[Utopia Palms]

Hi All

Matt the palm in these photos is Dypsis robusta it is very similar to D. prestoniana the white petioles show that it is D. robusta and D. prestoniana have green petioles, both look very similar to each other, once you can see a crown shaft you can then tell these apart very easy but this takes a long time! Around 10 years from the size that you have there if you put your one in the ground yesterday! So plant this one out as soon as you can the longer you keep this in a pot the longer it will take to get that crownshaft out of the ground, these palms will take full sun! If it has been in a very protected area in low light the leaves will burn at first but then it will become used to the amount of light in its new position. Most palms are the same.

Remember that this palm will pull it’s self down quite deep, I have rotted a few until I started mounding them up a little when planting, this is only necessary if you have heavy soils, if in sandy soils this is not a problem. Ps is your green house just shade cloth or glass or clear plastic if clear plastic or glass this could have made the burn worse than normal also the lack of air movement would not have helped either. So it should be ready to put out in the full sun now! Just mulch quite thick around it when you plant it out.  Hope this helps

Clayton

[The Germinator]

Sounds Like they might be better off in a nice procted shade spot outside.

[deezpalms]

Matty ~ I've got 4 or 5 of these beauties and some are in shade and some get morning/ early afternoon sun and all look great. Maybe it's because of my location?

[elHoagie]

For what it's worth, I bought a small seedling from Jeff Marcus about 2 years ago that's now about the same size as your plant.  Until I moved last month it had been in my cold frame under 30% shade cloth, and it never showed any sun burn...

[MattyB]

OK, great.  Thanks so much all for the responses.  Here's some answers to a few questions that were raised.  My greenhouse has been closed up all winter (I air it out weekly at least).  It's starting to heat up real nice during the day as spring is bringing more intense sun and warmth.  I do have automatic vent openers that I'll activate soon but the temps are usually only about 85F and my absolutely highest temp so far was 91F.  I have an oscillating fan that runs all day and moves the air around quite well.  The greenhouse is plastic covered in 40% shade cloth and I never have any sunburn issues even with shade loving species so I like the heat explaination, maybe I'll move it lower to the ground in more shade and cool.  Clayton mentioned that it's a Dypsis robusta because of the white petiole but I periodically remove soil in order to keep the growing point out of the dirt and when I do this it takes the buried petioles time to turn green so I think that's at least partially why you see white there although I wouldn't doubt that it's still not what it's labled as with these Dypsis.  I do have 2 very small seedlings of D. robusta directly from Jeff Marcus that show no signs of yellowing or burn.  I did fertilize before the burn showed up but I use dynamite slow release and I've piled that stuff on even small seedlings with no burn issues so I doubt that's it.

[MattyB]

Rusty said he thought it might be a humidity thing too and suggested that maybe I should take it out of the greenhouse and put it under shadecloth where the air is drier.  Is this similar to D. decipiens in that it might not like hot and humid?  Any thoughts on that?  I have a hard time believing that no one else is having these problems.  Most of the ones at Jungle Music are yellowing and mine is beyond yellow now.  I guess I'm just looking for some more cultural tips from more people.  Thanks to those who've already responded.

[elHoagie]

Maybe residual cold damage from January?  It didn't show up until it was warm enough for the plant to start growing...

Mine haven't had any problems yet, either in my old cold frame or out on the deck at my new place.

[MattyB]

Hmmmmm, I hadn't thought of that.  It did get down to 37F in the greenhouse where it was but this damage just showed up accutely.  One day I just noticed it all of a sudden and I do a quick inspection of my plants pretty much daily.  It's been in a shady spot in the greenhouse and more light and more warmth are the changes it's seen.  Quirky little plant.

[Walter John]

(Utopia Palms @ Mar. 20 2007,16:15)

QUOTE

Hi All

Matt the palm in these photos is Dypsis robusta it is very similar to D. prestoniana the white petioles show that it is D. robusta and D. prestoniana have green petioles, both look very similar to each other, once you can see a crown shaft you can then tell these apart very easy but this takes a long time! Around 10 years from the size that you have there if you put your one in the ground yesterday! So plant this one out as soon as you can the longer you keep this in a pot the longer it will take to get that crownshaft out of the ground, these palms will take full sun! If it has been in a very protected area in low light the leaves will burn at first but then it will become used to the amount of light in its new position. Most palms are the same.

Remember that this palm will pull it’s self down quite deep, I have rotted a few until I started mounding them up a little when planting, this is only necessary if you have heavy soils, if in sandy soils this is not a problem. Ps is your green house just shade cloth or glass or clear plastic if clear plastic or glass this could have made the burn worse than normal also the lack of air movement would not have helped either. So it should be ready to put out in the full sun now! Just mulch quite thick around it when you plant it out.  Hope this helps

Clayton

Well well, this is a first, I disagree with Clayton on the robusta identify. Why ? because of the leaflets. D.robusta has narrower leaflets as far as I can see.

Here's some pics of my Dypsis robusta, which was sold to me by an honest person who could have made an honest mistake ?  

Have a look, what do you think ? Give it to me Clayton, I can take it  

Spear

[Matt in SD]

I'll jump in with some timid support of Wal.  I bought some Dypsis prestoniana from Jeff Marcus last may and they look like the plant in Matt's photos.  I bought Dypsis robusta at the same time from Jeff.  If anyone in the world can tell robusta from...well something other than robusta, I'd assume Jeff can since he has the type specimen of robusta on his property grown from seed.

But then I can't say 100% that the plants I got from Jeff are the same prestonianas that Phil is growing as they are several leaves behind in size so probably from a different seed batch.  But mine have white petioles too and look different from the robusta seedlings (which are 100% positive to be robusta as they're from Jeff's tree).  

OK Clayton, you can shred us now.

Matt

[Walter John]

This could be bad Matt, the longer the delay in comeback, the harder it will be.

[Utopia Palms]

Hi Guy’s

Sorry Wal we had some people here so could not get back to answer you, so this might not be as bad as you think!

Well I glad some one questioned that line of thinking and it’s good to see that it was an Aussie that instigated this! good one Wal, and nicely backed up by Matt in SD in USA.

Thanks Wal I had to duck out and take some photos all round the farm to check this out more! This is after moving 50m of mulch to day.  

Matt you will have to ask Jeff where he got his Dypsis Robusta from, as all these first ones were from Maria Boggs (An Australian nursery very well known for her rare palms) who more than likely received the seeds from Alfred some 18 years or more ago. So now let me say these are very hard to tell apart so much so I will give you both and any one who would like so see, if they can tell the difference between these two species at this size a chance to see what you all think . I must also say that I can not be sure weather it is the true D.robusta as they would normally have started being irregular and clustered with there leaflets at this size and some what thinner, but they can also hold this type of leaf shown  in matt’s first photos for some time longer than others from the same seed batch some times. Normally the white colour in the petiole is the only way I can tell these two apart.

So here are some photos the first two should show the difference between the to palms with some age about them (showing some crown shaft)

The next ones you all can check and see what you think? ???  I will list all the names of these photos at a later stage to see if you guy’s can tell the difference at a few different sizes.

Ps I do not have one with the exact type of leaf width as Matt B one, as these ones in the photos have been in full sun and the leaves are now thinner than when they were in shade but I do have some seedlings that are close.

Here are 7 photos, so go for it have some fun!.

[Utopia Palms]

Photo No 2

[Utopia Palms]

No 3 ???

[Utopia Palms]

No 4 ???  ???

[Utopia Palms]

No 5  

[Utopia Palms]

No 6  ???

[Utopia Palms]

And one more No7 Ok what do you all think?  

[sebastian]

I have no idea with these big dypsis with furry red bit's.

Clayton is that first photo of a palm that was once named D. "stumpy" (one or two?)

I just had a look at my small one(inground) i bought as D. prestoniana, the new spear appears green now under torch light but i was sure it was white before i looked?

[calyptrocalyx&licuala freck]

Hi Guys

Matt B,  I,d plant that plant that you first showed

            Ya heat stressed one,Just like Clayton said

           Mulch etc, you'll get that baby back looking

           great in no time,.

           In 12 months take another shot post The

           Old  pic With the new one,You will be surprized

           So will many others.

Hey Clayton,  Can I play to....

            Or do I have to stay on the side line,and sit

           on the bench

     Regards to all,

                             Mikey..

[Utopia Palms]

Hi Sebastian

The first photo is as you have said stumpy No 1 or the Australian stumpy. Now D.robusta

And Mike

I know you know what is going on so you must just sit on the side line for this one, or maybe you can get those pots ready to bring down to Wal next week?

Clayton.

[calyptrocalyx&licuala freck]

Hi Wal

 Don't pull all that hair out of ya head

Start on the hair on ya legs. :laugh:  

Matt you can you've got lots of hair. :laugh:

Just had to move this baby up to remind ya's

Enjoy,

            Regards Mikey.

[calyptrocalyx&licuala freck]

Hi Guys

            Come  on Boys, the longer you leave it the harder,

it will get,

Or Maybe Mr Dransfield would like to have a try.

                Regards  Mike.E

[Matt in SD]

Well if we have to make guesses before Clayton says what they are...

1. Dypsis robusta (pretty sure on this one)

2. prestoniana?  Does anyone have a true prestoniana this big?

3.  Robusta

4.  Prestoniana

5.  prestoniana (only because Clayton said it had white petioles)

6.  robusta (only because Clayton said it had white petioles)

7.  Looks like Dypsis 'mayotte' to me with teh reddish leaf bases, but obviously this would be a trick if it is.  Or is it a photo of #6 from a different angle?

I really have no idea other than 1 and 2 (I've seen a big robusta and that's it).  

Matt

[Utopia Palms]

Hi Matt

That was a very good try as it is very hard to tell these apart, well done!

And as you have said i cannot be sure that the other plant labeled as D. prestoniana is the true species but they are very similar as small plants, looks like Wal does not want to make a comment here, very smart Wal.

Ok the first one is D.robusta,

And the next one No2 is what I think could be D. prestoniana,

No 3 is a smaller one of No2 it’s the same age but just has never grown this one is growing in the shade but it was a similar size to the next photo of D.robusta.

No 4 is D.robusta

No 5 is a seedling from Jeff.m D.robusta but this one I’m sure is a hybrid with what I’m not sure, it was from the first seed made from Jeff m palm D.robusta.

No 6 is another seedling from Jeff.m D.robusta this one is the true species and you can see the white petiole.

No 7 is another photo of No 5, with this photo you can see the crown and how much different it is from the true species. It looks like it is going to be a very fast grower and has a totally different habit it the way it is growing compared to the true species Dypsis robusta. So anyone who has some of this first batch of seedlings from Jeff’s plant, have a good look for this one as I think its going to be a very stunning palm that grows two times faster than the true Dypsis robusta.

Ps here is one more photo of Dypsis rodusta

All the best

Clayton.

[Utopia Palms]

Hi Wal

After looking and looking at these palms that I have been selling as Dypsis Robusta.

I’m now with you Wal and matt! They are Not the true species, in some of these photos you can see that as these palms are getting older and into more sunlight the grouped leaflets are getting far too irregular for it to be Dypsis robusta.

I do think that it could be something very similar to, or even is the same palm being sold as Dypsis sp “Jurassic” as some of the larger ones are also starting to twist there leaves in an untidy manner very similar to the older looking D.sp Jurassic leaves, and the arraignment of the grouped leaflets is also starting to be very similar. At a guess I would say that this might be Dypsis tokoraveina.

There are some photos from Bo in the topic “colorful dypsis” although much larger and a good 12 to 15 years older.

What do you guy’s think? ???

So the first photo of mine is Dypsis robusta true species and Photo number 6 is also the true species(from Jeff .M palm) around two years old now.

Thank you Wal and Matt for bringing that to my attention, and Guy’s its definitely not going to be my last mistake I make, as some of these smaller dypsis are much harder to tell what species you have until they are flowering, and even then one would have to use a microscope to even see some of there flowers.

Clayton

[rprimbs]

Earlier this year I planted a small one gallon Dypis prestoniana. It is doing fine except it is pulling itself deep into the ground. Should I dig out around it? Or should I just let it do its thing? My soil is decomposed granite. What is the consensus on this?

And out of curiosity Matt how is your D. prestoniana doing now? How big is it?

Edited December 3, 2012 by rprimbs

[BS Man about Palms]

Interesting bump rp....

Its a toss up whether to dig it up or leave with a little mulch since you have dg. They hate having their roots disturbed about as equal as being too low. So I would vote "watch close and water carefully and sparingly"

[Jeff Searle]

D. prestoniana can take full sun here in south Florida. It should not be a problem for you guys in so-cal either.

[MattyB]

Richard,

If you can, just brush the soil away from the growing point. You can use some bark, wood pieces, or chunky mulch to create sort of a block to keep the soil from sloughing back down into the void. Before long the palm will push it's growing point up and out of the dirt, then it should be ok.

Here's some updated pics of my Dypsis prestoniana. After the pics at the beginning of this thread, I bumped it up to a 5 gallon pot, and there it sat for two more years in the greenhouse. I did continue to have some more issues with sunburn, heat burn, or humidity shock, not sure what it was which is why I decided that I better get it in the ground before I kill it. I planted it in 2010 I think, and it's never looked back.

[MattyB]

close ups and fatty spear

This is by no means your typical slow big Dypsis, and is very fun to watch grow.

[CardiffPalmNut]

MattyB - looking real good!