Another FreezePruf Failure

[Jim in Los Altos]

Today, several days after the freezing night (27.5F) I noticed that my 25 year old Howea forsteriana that I had treated with FreezePruf is now 90% burned and I'm not sure if she's going to survive. In the ten years that it's been in its current position it's never had more than minor superficial damage in any given winter and I've never protected it. Even 2007's 26.5F barely fazed it.

What's very interesting is that I've got several younger Howeas nearby as well as a host of other subtropicals that I didn't treat with FreezePruf and they came through this freeze unscathed. Even my old alocasia, 15 feet away from the torched Howea, is barely damaged. Could FreezePruf have caused this??? It's hard to argue with this sort of evidence. Something else may be the underlying cause but I'm left with a drying out, crinkling mess that used to be my front yard's centerpiece for many years.

It will be very hard for me to trust any claims made in the future by any product. If my much loved Kentia bites the dust, I'll probably replace it with a nice sized X butiagrus.

[freakypalmguy]

Today, several days after the freezing night (27.5F) I noticed that my 25 year old Howea forsteriana that I had treated with FreezePruf is now 90% burned and I'm not sure if she's going to survive. In the ten years that it's been in its current position it's never had more than minor superficial damage in any given winter and I've never protected it. Even 2007's 26.5F barely fazed it.

What's very interesting is that I've got several younger Howeas nearby as well as a host of other subtropicals that I didn't treat with FreezePruf and they came through this freeze unscathed. Even my old alocasia, 15 feet away from the torched Howea, is barely damaged. Could FreezePruf have caused this??? It's hard to argue with this sort of evidence. Something else may be the underlying cause but I'm left with a drying out, crinkling mess that used to be my front yard's centerpiece for many years.

It will be very hard for me to trust any claims made in the future by and product. If my much loved Kentia bites the dust, I'll probably replace it with a nice sized X butiagrus.

Wow Jim, that sucks. It almost does appear, from the reports, that things were worse off with it. Sorry about your Howea, hope she pulls through.

Matt

[gsn]

I asked this question on the other thread,and recieved a less than stellar answer... This question came about because of the stated mechanism that supposedly Freeze-Pruf works on... lowering water content in plant cells (putting plants in a drought MODE)? I would really like Mr. Franko to address this possibility, especially after more than several people seem to have had worse results using this product ,than if they had done nothing at all?

If there is a difference between drought MODE and drought STRESS, where is that line drawn? And is that the possible reason that Jim in Los Altos had more damage than he felt he would have had, if he had NOT used the product. What I am saying is it possible that the Freeze-Pruf went past drought mode and caused the plants to drought stress, thereby increasing dessication,damage, and burn?

Edited December 25, 2009 by gsn

[John Case]

Jim,

You have made my point in being an early adopter when using new technology. You are essentially the victim of a failed beta test.

It is my opinion that too much was not known about Freeze Pruf when it was released to the market. As I understand it (and I could be wrong) the commercial release of the product was delayed for some time. I have found that when an anticipated product, eagerly awaited by a lot of people, is delayed, the longer the delay, the larger the number of 'bugs' in the product.

At some point, the producer must release the product in order to quell the rising questions, at the risk of failure.

A good example of this is MicroSoft and Windows 95. Windows 98 was almost completely written when 95 was released, full of problems that many people bought and paid for.....

While we all want a couple of degrees of protection (I had a 25F night here that top killed a few of my bamboos), we must always measure the risk of what we do to get what we desire. Again, in my opinion, the application of Freeze Pruf was an act of desperation when no cause for desperation was warranted. The freeze of January 07 was much colder than Dec 09, and many of us had damage but we had the measure of it.

I am truly sorry that you spent time and money on the purchase and application of Freeze Pruf, but I'll propose this question; had I used this logic prior to the freeze, would it have persuaded you to not give it a try? Would you have applied it to a palm that was less precious to you?

WE as consumers are bombarder by hype, cheats, and thieves every day. Without some kind of published, peer reviewed scientific data. why would we jump into such a risky business. From what your results are, it seems you could have applied lighter fluid and gotten the same results.

To this point, I have seen little in this forum (and none in others I frequent) that speaks in a positive way to this product..

I hope your Howea survives, in fact I betting that it does.

Good luck!

[enigma99]

Jim,

FreezePruf is a total joke. On the first night of the arctic blast, it got down to 30F. Everything was treated and it looked worse than it would have been typically without it. The following two nights we had 27 and then 25. The last time it got this cold was 2007, but wrapping stuff seems to keep everything green then. Shame on me for paying $100 and letting all my stuff almost die. I should have just covered them

Hope your Howea comes through. But at 90% burn and its slow growth rate, that is tough to watch recover.

[cagary]

I hope that everyone who bought this product ( and is unhappy with it ) takes full advantage of the "100% Money Back" guarantee that comes with it.

Satisfaction Guarantee

If, for any reason, you are not 100% satisfied,

Liquid Fence® Co. will refund the suggested

retail price or replace this product.

Liquid Fence® Co. will not be liable for

any damage, direct or indirect.

Refund or replacement of product is our only obligation.

[Walt]

I was wary of the claims of Freeze Pruf once I read various magazine articles and publications that posters at this and other palm related websites posted.

What made me suspicious was that there was no real specific test results for the topical application of FP to palm foliage.

The only photos I saw were of broad leafed tropical plants.

I was looking for far more emphasis on palms, mainly because of Dr. Franko's book, "Palms Won't Grow Here and other myths." I thought for sure, that if FP was the revolutionary product it was claimed to be, Dr. Franko would be making all kinds of claims as to what this product could do for palm foliage -- mainly on the basis of his book. When I didn't see such claims, I was somewhat puzzled.

I can readily understand why the scientific community might pooh pooh anecdotal testimony, generally speaking, but when dozens of hardcore palm enthusiasts (with years and years of empirical palm growing experience) all used and applied FP as per directions and under weather conditions within the temperature range claimed by the FP manufacturer where FP was to be effective -- and almost all experienced 100 % failure -- then I suggest such anecdotal testimony holds much validity.

From all the postings I've read here and at other palm forums, I deduce that not only did FP not give any appreiciable degree of cold/frost protection, but in many case it actually exacerbated the cold/frost damage of what it would have been had FP not been applied at all!

Since I myself haven't tested FP on my own palms and plants, etc., I will not condemn it. However, I trust the competence of those here that used FP, in as much as they did mix and apply FP as per label instructions and further, tested FP under the weather conditions (low temperature ranges) claimed for said product.

That is good enough testimony for me, and I don't plan to waste my money on the product. I consider myself a reasonable person. If the claims for FP, based on a particular plant, were for a 2-9 degree F improvement in cold tolerance, I would consider that claim more than reasonable, even if it were only 2 degree improvement. Two degrees may mean all the difference on some of my winter nights. But from what I've read thus far of everyone's experiences with FP, even a two degree improvement in cold tolerance is an unreaslistic expectation.

This failed experiment only once again proves to me that: there's no substitute for insulation and supplemental heat for protecting cold tender palms and tropicals.

[enigma99]

I hope that everyone who bought this product ( and is unhappy with it ) takes full advantage of the "100% Money Back" guarantee that comes with it.

Satisfaction Guarantee

If, for any reason, you are not 100% satisfied,

Liquid Fence® Co. will refund the suggested

retail price or replace this product.

Liquid Fence® Co. will not be liable for

any damage, direct or indirect.

Refund or replacement of product is our only obligation.

Bad news....

Liquid Fence® Deer & Rabbit Repellent

Liquid Fence® Dual Action Rabbit Repellent

Liquid Net® The Ultimate Insect Repellent

Liquid Fence® Speedy Grow® Plant Growth Accelerator

Liquid Fence® Mole Repellent

Liquid Fence® Snake Repellent

Liquid Fence® Goose Repellent

Liquid Fence® Cribbing Eliminator®

Liquid Net® for Pets, The Ultimate Pet Insect Repellent

Liquid Net® for Horses, The Ultimate Equine Insect Repellent

Yard Net™, Lawn and Yard Insect Repellent

In their list of "Refundable" products, FreezePruf isn't one of them!!

[cagary]

I hope that everyone who bought this product ( and is unhappy with it ) takes full advantage of the "100% Money Back" guarantee that comes with it.

Satisfaction Guarantee

If, for any reason, you are not 100% satisfied,

Liquid Fence® Co. will refund the suggested

retail price or replace this product.

Liquid Fence® Co. will not be liable for

any damage, direct or indirect.

Refund or replacement of product is our only obligation.

Bad news....

Liquid Fence® Deer & Rabbit Repellent

Liquid Fence® Dual Action Rabbit Repellent

Liquid Net® The Ultimate Insect Repellent

Liquid Fence® Speedy Grow® Plant Growth Accelerator

Liquid Fence® Mole Repellent

Liquid Fence® Snake Repellent

Liquid Fence® Goose Repellent

Liquid Fence® Cribbing Eliminator®

Liquid Net® for Pets, The Ultimate Pet Insect Repellent

Liquid Net® for Horses, The Ultimate Equine Insect Repellent

Yard Net™, Lawn and Yard Insect Repellent

In their list of "Refundable" products, FreezePruf isn't one of them!!

I don't know about any list, but the container itself has the above guarantee right on it.

[John Case]

I was wary of the claims of Freeze Pruf once I read various magazine articles and publications that posters at this and other palm related websites posted.

What made me suspicious was that there was no real specific test results for the topical application of FP to palm foliage.

The only photos I saw were of broad leafed tropical plants.

I was looking for far more emphasis on palms, mainly because of Dr. Franko's book, "Palms Won't Grow Here and other myths." I thought for sure, that if FP was the revolutionary product it was claimed to be, Dr. Franko would be making all kinds of claims as to what this product could do for palm foliage -- mainly on the basis of his book. When I didn't see such claims, I was somewhat puzzled.

I can readily understand why the scientific community might pooh pooh anecdotal testimony, generally speaking, but when dozens of hardcore palm enthusiasts (with years and years of empirical palm growing experience) all used and applied FP as per directions and under weather conditions within the temperature range claimed by the FP manufacturer where FP was to be effective -- and almost all experienced 100 % failure -- then I suggest such anecdotal testimony holds much validity.

From all the postings I've read here and at other palm forums, I deduce that not only did FP not give any appreiciable degree of cold/frost protection, but in many case it actually exacerbated the cold/frost damage of what it would have been had FP not been applied at all!

Since I myself haven't tested FP on my own palms and plants, etc., I will not condemn it. However, I trust the competence of those here that used FP, in as much as they did mix and apply FP as per label instructions and further, tested FP under the weather conditions (low temperature ranges) claimed for said product.

That is good enough testimony for me, and I don't plan to waste my money on the product. I consider myself a reasonable person. If the claims for FP, based on a particular plant, were for a 2-9 degree F improvement in cold tolerance, I would consider that claim more than reasonable, even if it were only 2 degree improvement. Two degrees may mean all the difference on some of my winter nights. But from what I've read thus far of everyone's experiences with FP, even a two degree improvement in cold tolerance is an unreaslistic expectation.

This failed experiment only once again proves to me that: there's no substitute for insulation and supplemental heat for protecting cold tender palms and tropicals.

Walt,

Again my point is being made.

If it is a scam, then that's what it is. If it is not, then inadequate testing was done at UofA. Release of a product not ready is no better than prototyping and people should be paid to do the testing, rather than experience the loss of valuable plants like Jim.

My guess is that its a scam, as so many people look for the quick fix nowadays, rather than wait for or perform the required testing.

Those who bought Freezepruf are either people taken in by a scam, or ar unknowing testers of the product. Either way, everyone who had demonstrable failures in the use of Freezpruf should get their money back, per the disclaimer on the package. If they do not get their refund, then they are not testers but victims.

I would guess to get their money back that they will have to prove that the product was applied according to the instructions. Without a video of the application, I do not think that many people will be successful. If everyone who makes a valid claim gets a refund, them I apologize to the Liquid Fence people in advance.

I wonder how well it would work as a mixer with vodka?

[cagary]

[Jim in Los Altos]

I've written the company requesting my money back. Let's see what happens. I gave them a detailed account of my damages and the failure of their product. Too bad they're not liable for the damages their inferior product has caused.

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Sorry to here about the big Howea , They are tough though i bet it slowly recovers .

Not going anywhere near FREEZE PRUF !

[gsn]

While we all want a couple of degrees of protection (I had a 25F night here that top killed a few of my bamboos), we must always measure the risk of what we do to get what we desire. Again, in my opinion, the application of Freeze Pruf was an act of desperation when no cause for desperation was warranted. The freeze of January 07 was much colder than Dec 09, and many of us had damage but we had the measure of it.

I am truly sorry that you spent time and money on the purchase and application of Freeze Pruf, but I'll propose this question; had I used this logic prior to the freeze, would it have persuaded you to not give it a try? Would you have applied it to a palm that was less precious to you?

WE as consumers are bombarder by hype, cheats, and thieves every day. Without some kind of published, peer reviewed scientific data. why would we jump into such a risky business. From what your results are, it seems you could have applied lighter fluid and gotten the same results.

I'm not sure I understand blaming the people who tried Freeze-Pruf on the same level as the manufacturer.

Whether people belived all the hype is one thing, but applying a product that is stated to increase cold hardiness by X number of degrees is another.

One would NOT think that applying the product could/would do MORE damage than if the product was NOT applied,which anedotally seems to be the case in many instances.

I guess what I am trying to say, is the people who tried this product were expecting some amount of cold protection,whether it 1 degree or more.

I don't think you can put the blame on someone buying and applying this product, thinking well it should help with some amount of cold protection,whatever that amount MIGHT be?

I'm sure no one bought this product with even the remote idea that it would/could do more harm? I'm fairly certain that most people thought, the most that would happen would be that it would do NOTHING, (add no increase in cold hardiness) NOT make matters worse, which might be the case.

Edited December 26, 2009 by gsn

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

Sorry to here about the big Howea , They are tough though i bet it slowly recovers .

Not going anywhere near FREEZE PRUF !

Could not agree with this more. I wont touch the stuff, probably ever. Someone used the older microsoft OS's as an analogy... With those, I never went to a next gen OS until it had been out for 2 years at least, and that usually saved me a whole lot of headaches. I hope your palm recovers. I can't blame people for trying to protect their palms, but I also am a bit of a skeptic and when something seems like it is too good to be true, it usually is. Thanks for all the info, and please keep us updated on how your palm does!

[_Keith]

If it sounds too good be true, it probably is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[PalmGuyWC]

If it sounds too good be true, it probably is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The day I was going to spray with FreezePruf the temp. never got above 50 and it was breezy, so I didn't use it. Now I'm glad I didn't. I wonder if they will give a refund if the product wasn't used? I haven't seen any positive reports. I'm wondering if one of the ingredients of the product was missing or not the proper amount?

The two nights of hard freeze I had on Dec 8 & 9 was weird. All of my indicator plants such as alocasias, Lantana, etc, were burned to a crisp, but I have seen no damage to any of the palms. I think it got as cold as the '07 freeze, but it only lasted two nights and the '07 freeze went on for 2 weeks or longer. Each freeze seems to affect different plants in different ways.

Dick