This cold outbreak is getting just a little ridiculous. Over 10 hours last night at 23 degrees or lower... finally bottomed out at 20... the coldest we've had so far. The 8' tall S. causiarum in the backyard is not looking too hot. How much cold can they take. They'll have another night of it tonight.

This cold outbreak is getting just a little ridiculous. Over 10 hours last night at 23 degrees or lower... finally bottomed out at 20... the coldest we've had so far. The 8' tall S. causiarum in the backyard is not looking too hot. How much cold can they take. They'll have another night of it tonight.

I have some 2 and 3 year seedlings, planted in the ground, that just saw two 22 degree nights in a row without complaint.

I have two fairly large specimens of S. causiarum (4 years in-ground, 8-10' in partial shade, so a bit stretched with no trunk). We have so far in this event endured 64 straight hours below freezing, with the worst night's low being 18.4F. Days never got above 28 until today, and we had five hours of above-freezing temps (to 35F), and now back to low 20s tonight. I've done an initial survey and both S. causiarum look absolutely perfect, as do S. palmetto, S. mexicana, S. minor, S. maritima, S. rosei, S. 'Riverside' (the last two in pots). The only Sabals I have that have taken obviously noticeable damage are S. domingensis (all leaves fried though it should come back no problem from the subterranean bud) and two small S. pumos I had out in pots. The leaves on the latter species look like they are toast...I had no idea this was such a tender species!

I have two fairly large specimens of S. causiarum (4 years in-ground, 8-10' in partial shade, so a bit stretched with no trunk). We have so far in this event endured 64 straight hours below freezing, with the worst night's low being 18.4F. Days never got above 28 until today, and we had five hours of above-freezing temps (to 35F), and now back to low 20s tonight. I've done an initial survey and both S. causiarum look absolutely perfect, as do S. palmetto, S. mexicana, S. minor, S. maritima, S. rosei, S. 'Riverside' (the last two in pots). The only Sabals I have that have taken obviously noticeable damage are S. domingensis (all leaves fried though it should come back no problem from the subterranean bud) and two small S. pumos I had out in pots. The leaves on the latter species look like they are toast...I had no idea this was such a tender species!

Michael, thanks for the encouraging words. Seems like your causiarums get some frost protection. I think mine was in pretty good shape until it hit 20 last night with a heavy frost. Mine is out in the open with no protection in sight. Needless to say, the fan palms will probably totally defoliate after this is over, except for the 18' tall W. filifera, it must be made of iron.

Jeff

This is good info to know.

BlufftonSC:

Sorry to hear of your travails, but you will provide the rest of us with good information, whatever happens.

Keep good records, if you can, and let us know.

You can get some nasty freezes, there brother.

All the best

dave

Only time will tell. We will all have to record our information in the Freeze Damage forum.

My experience from observing S. mexicana in TX during the 1980's is that Sabals don't always show damage right away. Some of them look OK unitl it get warm and then they turn brown. I sure don't understand the physiology of that, but it happens. Hopefully that doesn't happen to your S. causarium.

My experience from observing S. mexicana in TX during the 1980's is that Sabals don't always show damage right away. Some of them look OK unitl it get warm and then they turn brown. I sure don't understand the physiology of that, but it happens. Hopefully that doesn't happen to your S. causarium.

I'm sure it will be fine, but I do think the damage will continue to show as the weather stays warm. Do you have fan palms? All of mine, except for the W. filifera, look like bronzed baby booties. They pretty much fried to a crisp. Is that how they look around Jacksonville?

My S. causarium seedlings saw 3 nights right at the 20 degree mark. I think they actually enjoyed it, and put on some new growth.

I'm with you, Keith, I think mine actually enjoyed it. I'm a very big fan of this massive palm. Still no hint of damage on mine. I've got lots of singed and defoliated palms but these look like they're having a nice day on the 4th of July.

It has been stated in the past (I think by Merrill or Ed Brown) that S. causiarum, for whatever reason, is very resistant to both freeze and frost damage, but the bud is on rocky ground as you get down around the 10-degree mark. By contrast, its geographic neighbor S. domingensis is very susceptible to frost damage but showed itself to have a hardier bud than S. causiarum in the '80s freezes. I'm pretty sure this is how they laid it out, and perhaps someone can confirm this.

BTW, My S. dominigensis did show "fluid leak" splotching behavior during freezes in the upper 20s here, which corrected itself within a day or so. There was at least some frost present during those freezes, but not much, and it was under some deciduous tree-branches (for what that might be worth), and its large strap-leaves were mostly vertical. But once it got hit with something much below 26F (and perhaps frost as well) it just defoliated.

The other Caribbean surprise to me was the Jamaican S. maritima, which did not flinch during this event down into the upper teens with almost three days continuously below freezing.

I have a Sabal causiarum in a 36" box with 6' CT on my driveway waiting to be planted. We were down to 12F with at least 9 hours below 15F. Have been in the 70's the last few days, and it still shows no damage at all.

Martin, that is truly impressive! A comforting statistic to hear for those of us in the Gulf/southeast zones after this depressing freeze.

We didint have much problems here in Jax with high winds that was the decisive factor in many of the 80's freezes . There was a very large S. causerium in Gainesville up against one of the builidings --- it survived the 85 freeze but it was protected by the buildings so you didnt get hte penetrating freezing winds.

All the S. causeriarums survived here as well as S. domingensis --- I saw more damage in the protracted freeze event

we had in 2001. This was simular but a day or two longer . The foliage damage will likely come later as Keith noted --- I noticed some of the same with Livistonas ---- particularly with older leaves --- maybe it just hastens the natural cycle of the life or makes this less resilient (celluarly) so they lose moistur via evapo-transpieration during the spring dry period.

Best regards

Ed

Ed--

I have tried to see any cryptic cellular damage by looking through the leaves, which in the past I've been able to ascertain pretty quickly, and indeed the S. domingensis leaves terminally discolored almost instantly. But the S. causiarum look utterly perfect no matter how hard I look for defects. With the warmer weather we've had the last couple of days I've seen the browning and/or collapse of many things in the garden, but these S. causiarum just seem absolutely right as rain. The cuticle on Sabal causiarum seems to be so much thicker (and I would think more protective to freezing winds) than Livistonas. My Livistonas have taken a week or so, but the damaged areas have made themselves thoroughly known to me!

I have my fingers crossed about these causiarum and will keep a close eye on them in the months ahead...if they collapse on me there will be precious little left!

Ed--

I have tried to see any cryptic cellular damage by looking through the leaves, which in the past I've been able to ascertain pretty quickly, and indeed the S. domingensis leaves terminally discolored almost instantly. But the S. causiarum look utterly perfect no matter how hard I look for defects. With the warmer weather we've had the last couple of days I've seen the browning and/or collapse of many things in the garden, but these S. causiarum just seem absolutely right as rain. The cuticle on Sabal causiarum seems to be so much thicker (and I would think more protective to freezing winds) than Livistonas. My Livistonas have taken a week or so, but the damaged areas have made themselves thoroughly known to me!

I have my fingers crossed about these causiarum and will keep a close eye on them in the months ahead...if they collapse on me there will be precious little left!

Well, my causiarum was definitely damaged by the freeze. A lot of dark gray is starting to show on the older leaves, but 75% of it still looks fine. Must be the crappy soil in my yard that caused it to show any damage at all, or the fact that it stayed in the shade on those frosty mornings until around 11 a.m. The P. canariensis got a little burnt up, too. The only things in the yard that aren't showing damage are the native sabals and the filifera... and the needle palm... duh... ha ha.

Only have a small seedling in a pot but it stayed out over both of our freeze events, ultimate low was 16F! Thus far no apparent damage which surprised me... waiting on spring time to make the final call. Jv

That S. causiarum at UF is essentially unchanged since I first saw it about 1960. It is the sole survivor from a row of about a dozen located so that, in earlier years, cars parked close to them. When I arrived in 1960, there were still two, one of which was quickly sawed down by a contractor.

merrill

I'll have to check on the 8' tall Seattle one again soon. It seemed to be hanging in there after 16 degrees in Dec 2008, with only some damage to the lower fronds, but I haven't seen it since last April.

Update on my small sabal causiarum, it's now starting to show signs of stress as the older juvenile fronds are discoloring and appear to be drying up. Will continue to monitor it into the spring and see if it makes it.

The supposed S. Caus x Palmettos seedlings I have, continue to show no sign of damage.

Jv

Hi Bluffton, SC. Sorry I didn't respond sooner but I was on business trip. Here in Jax we're seeing damage to Queens, Pygmy Dates and some Washingtonia robusta. Filifera are few and far between but I saw two this week that appeard OK. Livistonas are also showing injury but some species are obviously more tolerant of freezing weather than others. Also, plant siting is also highly influential. A few Phoenix canariensis have some leaflet tip burn but the P. sylvestris seem unfazed. Some of the Sagos are also burnt, but not all. Overall it's a reminder of why I don't like winter!

I have a Sabal causiarum in a 36" box with 6' CT on my driveway waiting to be planted. We were down to 12F with at least 9 hours below 15F. Have been in the 70's the last few days, and it still shows no damage at all.

that's incredible, I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that it was very well established? was it in a protected location?

I have a Sabal causiarum in a 36" box with 6' CT on my driveway waiting to be planted. We were down to 12F with at least 9 hours below 15F. Have been in the 70's the last few days, and it still shows no damage at all.

that's incredible, I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that it was very well established? was it in a protected location?

Steve, what an awesome find, I wish I'd seen this thread when I was planting all my sabals.

For what it's worth, my causiarum is by far the most robust fast grower in my refrigerator of a Summer. IMHO the most care free sabal on tbe planet.

I have a Sabal causiarum in a 36" box with 6' CT on my driveway waiting to be planted. We were down to 12F with at least 9 hours below 15F. Have been in the 70's the last few days, and it still shows no damage at all.

that's incredible, I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that it was very well established? was it in a protected location?

Don't know why, but it was not in a protected location. It also survived the freeze in 2/11 when we stayed in the teens for 4 straight days. It was in the ground at that point, but was defoliated. It recovered pretty quickly though. Not as quick as the Sabal Riverside I have planted next to it though. Those things are by far the toughest Sabal IMHO.

Just a note, the Sabal causarium I mentioned in the second post turns out was mislabeled and is likely S. bermudiana.

Just a note, the Sabal causarium I mentioned in the second post turns out was mislabeled and is likely S. bermudiana.

All the more impressive...