Edible palms for a large tropical greenhouse

[KarenRei]

Hi all - I just joined to hear from some of your palm expertise!

I'm assisting a project that's looking to build a series of large (up to 20m high) public greenhouses, with the goal of combine food cultivation (exotic tropicals) with commercial space.  We're actively building up our shortlist of the plants to include, and large numbers of palms have popped up.  I happen to already have a Fiji dwarf coconut and a number of true (Phoenix dactylifera) dates, each a couple years old, as well as a (somewhat sickly    ) bali salak.  Some of the others that have made it onto the candidates list (with varying levels of research put into them already, from "minimal" to "detailed"):

• Butia / jelly palm (lots of possible species and hybrids) 
• Borassus  / palmyra palm (flabellifer, perhaps akeassi). But would definitely have to be purchased relatively mature since they take so long from seed (my data says ~20 years :Þ ).  Also dioecious, although a monoecious variety has supposedly been found in India.
• Nypa fruticans (for a water feature, palm sap, maybe the fruits)
• Euterpe oleracea / açai - though 7 years, so one with some age would be of use
• Bactris gasipaes / peach palm (spineless var.)
• Astrocaryum vulgare - perhaps not the best of the palm fruits, but the history with tucum rings makes it interesting.
• Mauritia  flexuosa - perhaps not, as it's one of those things that's best in dishes rather than by itself.

There will be a humid dome and a drier dome, so we can handle different climactic conditions. The soil (at least thee upper layers) will be customized to the plants' needs. What we're looking for is a nice mix of exotic appearance, good productivity (relative to how much light it intercepts that could have gone to other uses), and good tasting fruit (ideally, but not fundamentally, without having to be cooked). Palms that grow in the shade get bonus points.  Other bonus points can be given for having a good story behind them, a good scent, good health benefits, etc. Dioecy is obviously a negative.  It's not as big of a deal for something like date palms where pollen is easy to purchase (so long as we get at least one female), but for less common palms, it means wasting space on a male.  At least most palms can be tapped if they're not of use for anything else    

Best are palms we can grow from seed to first flowering within several years, but buying small trees is no barrier.  It becomes more of an issue where we get to talking about trees that would need to be purchased large in order to get fruit in any reasonable length of time.  Our physical maximum size for getting trees here would probably be about 4-5m (max size truck that will fit on the ferry to Iceland is 6m), but I've seen the costs on trees that large and I think price would be more of a barrier than physical size.  Such a shame that you can't prune or graft palms! 

Anyway, what comes to mind?  What should make our list (incl. specific varieties)?  What shouldn't? 

Edited February 13, 2018 by KarenRei

[sgvcns]

Perhaps you should consider Chamaedorea tepejilote.

The unopened male inflorescences are  commonly eaten as a vegetable.

The seed is readily available and fairly fast to grow. Also will take lower light and give a great tropical look

Cheers

Steve

[KarenRei]

Now I know I found the right forum.    That's going onto the candidates list.

The more the better!

Edited February 14, 2018 by KarenRei

[Silas_Sancona]

Hi Karen and welcome to the forum,

Butia would be a good candidate for the dry dome. Not all that fast either so they would stay manageable for some time. 

Another interesting species worth looking into might be Hypaene thebacea, aka Dorum /Ginger Bread Palm. Thinking they are dioecious however. Id be inclined to include a pair in such a project just for the historical value alone.  Plenty of great minds here should surely have other ideas / opinions regarding options.

If you are planning on adding other things that might not be edible but provide other interesting features, Arenga engleri produces extremely fragrant flowers and stays relatively small height wise. Does clump so it would need a little space. One to look into regardless. 

How's the Fruit tree list coming along? id seen your posts over on the Trop. Fruit Forum. Another place full of great information /people. 

Out of curiosity, any Cactus type plants being considered in the project's lists/ plans? While the big boys might be a bit overwhelming, there are numerous smaller.. and easily manageable sp. that produce good fruit (Ie: Graham's Nipple Cactus, Strawberry Hedgehog, spineless Prickly Pear varieties)

Good luck with such a cool project. Look forward to hearing updates on the progress.

-Nathan

[richnorm]

Acrocomia is super spiney but has delicious "nuts" and is one of the fastest growing palms.  Some of the Pritchardias produce a lot of sweet nectar and flower young and are very beautiful fan palms.   

[caixeta]

Chamaedorea fragans : delicious scent , Bactris ferruginea : delicious fruits , similar jabuticaba .

[Cindy Adair]

Such an interesting project! I grow many edible and ethnobotanical plants in the tropics and would certainly enjoy seeing the greenhouse you are planning!

I will mull over the already good list here and post later if I can think of additions given your specifications.

Good Luck!

[masatepino]

Bactris guineensis. a small spiny clumping palm. The black/red pulp is used for drinks and sweets.

[Darold Petty]

15 hours ago, sgvcns said:

Perhaps you should consider Chamaedorea tepejilote.

The unopened male inflorescences are  commonly eaten as a vegetable.

The seed is readily available and fairly fast to grow. Also will take lower light and give a great tropical look

Cheers

Steve

Seed provenance would be important, as the cultivated plants have markedly larger spadices than the wild form.  This may not be a problem, since it should be easier to obtain seeds from the cultivated form.  Also note that this species is dioecious, and plants of both genders would be needed for subsequent generations.

[DoomsDave]

@KarenRei! That sounds like a helluva project! You'll get plenty of heat from the volcanoes. Hope Thor doesn't have a tantrum . . . .

For food plants that are palms, I'd consider Euterpe edulis or E. oleracea. They're tropical from the Amazon, but if you can keep them warm and moist enough they're very fast, you can eat the palm heart and the "acai berries" that are the fruit. And, they're not dioecious, so you can get by with one, but I'd plant a bunch. They're pretty, too. Seeds are readily available, and they mature rapidly. They will need to have wet, hot conditions, though.

Do, please keep us apprised of your project. Pictures, too.

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Euterpe_edulis,

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Euterpe_oleracea

 

 

[daxin]

Salacca zalacca, beautiful palm and distinctive fruits, the taste is too musky for me but there are enough people who like it for commercial cultivation.

[Kim]

Hello, Kare, welcome to PalmTalk.

What a fun project for you! A 20m greenhouse -- sounds fantastic!

Euterpe edulis is farmed for it's hearts of palm. Other palms with edible hearts include Cocos nucifera, other Euterpes, Bactris, as mentioned, and Sabal sp. 

Good luck with your project. I'd love to see some photos.

[KarenRei]

 

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 Butia would be a good candidate for the dry dome. Not all that fast either so they would stay manageable for some time.

The question of which Butia comes up, of course, as there's quite a few possibilities (and hybrids as well, although I don't know if the fruit on any of the hybrids is any good or how prolific they are)

 

 

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might be Hypaene thebacea, aka Dorum /Ginger Bread Palm. Thinking they are dioecious however

I'll research it.  Great history behind it! ("If they're good enough for King Tut....    ")

 

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s, Arenga engleri produces extremely fragrant flowers and stays relatively small height wise. 

Tappable too, if nothing else.  From a quick search (will dig more in later) the info I see says it needs full sun, tolerates maybe a little shade... yet like 80-90% of pictures of it I see show it growing in moderate to deep shade.  So a bit of a contradiction

 

How's the Fruit tree list coming along?

Massive   My notes file is maybe 500 species hundred long, while the database is something like 17000 species long (my info-scraper isn't perfect, but it did a decent job of pre-propagating a lot of data fields).  I'm steadily going through my notes, one species at a time, and working them into the database, but it takes a lot of time because there's so much I have to make sure I've filled out (yield per hectare, sun requirements, soil requirements, pollination, appearance/taste/scent ratings, and so on), and a lot of the information can be hard to come by (if available at all), esp. for rarer species.  I've logged nutritional and peer-reviewed scientific research on some species, but I'm putting it off for the majority of them because it's more important to get base stats into the database first so the ratings formulae can start suggesting where more attention should be focused for what parts of the buildings.  Last things I finished last night were several Dovyalis species; next up, Elaeocarpus    (no, not leaving out Durio, ultratropicals will come in a second pass later    ).

 

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Out of curiosity, any Cactus type plants being considered in the project's lists/ plans?

Yep    Current list is:

• Hylocereus sp (dragonfruit), of course
• Cereus sp. (such as C. repandus, Peruvian apple cactus)
• Stenocerus sp. (some of Luc's look awesome... maybe S.queretaroensis or S. stellatus).  Not sure how good the fruits are on S. beneckii f. inermis, but it's a really striking plant. Stenocereus thurberi said to be better than S. gummosis, sweeter.
• Opuntia sp. (prickley pear).  Species matters a lot, e.g. O. ficus-indica. Very healthy, although best for the blender because of the seeds.. Need to remove the thorns, and generally don't like humidity (although some varieties are said to like it?).  Opuntia gomei 'Old Mexico' and Opuntia cacanapa 'Ellisiana' are said to be thorn-free.  Burbank's Opuntia has thorns, but is said to be cultivated spoecifically for fruit.
• Cylindropuntia arbuscula?  Said to be very good, but is it worth it?
• Mammillaria sp. - Said to taste like a strong strawberry, or even better than a strawberry. (ED: adding Graham's Nipple Cactus here    )
• Myrtillocactus geometrizans f. christatus - crazily beautiful fallegt, like a statue. cv. Fukurokuryuzinboku looks like a column of breasts. The fruits are like raisins, but there's not a lot of them relative to the plant size.
• Epiphyllum sp. - said to be far too underappreciated.  Tolerate shade well. Beautiful flowers.  Fruits like little dragonfruit. The common ornate 'Curly sue' monstrose is however said to have lousy fruit.
• Polaskia chichipe - blue berry cactus
• Gymnocalycium saglionis - the favourite of a cactus collector in the Czech Republic I found   Light-blue fruit.
• Cipocereus minensis - reportedly the best cipocereus, for whatever that's worth    Striking blue flower stalks and fruit.
• ED: Adding Echinocereus engelmannii (Strawberry Hedgehog) 

 

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Acrocomia is super spiney but has delicious "nuts" and is one of the fastest growing palms.

Added 

 

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Some of the Pritchardias produce a lot of sweet nectar and flower young and are very beautiful fan palms.

Is the nectar edible?  Useful Tropical Plants lists no known edible uses for their only Pritchardia species, P. pacifica.  But indeed, quite attractive - the leaves remind me a bit of Lodoicea (which I desperately wish I could grow, but it's just not practical)

 

Chamaedorea fragans

Compact and rather shade tolerant - that's definitely worth considering despite the lack of edible uses   

 

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Bactris ferruginea : delicious fruits , similar jabuticaba .

Definitely added to the consideration list  

 

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Bactris guineensis

And another neat looking one 

 

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Euterpe edulis or E. oleracea

Already have E. oleracea on the list, but will add E. edulis    Can definitely have wet hot conditions 

 

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Salacca zalacca

Already have one, a Bali salak.  At least I think it's Bali salak, it might have gotten mixed up with some S. affinis (red salak), which, if so, I'll be in trouble with dioecy    

Thanks everyone, this is gold here!  

Edited February 14, 2018 by KarenRei

[Alberto]

Butia eriospatha is my favourite butia with an apple taste and less fibers, specially on the selected big fruits we have here.

 

[KarenRei]

A couple quick Butia questions / doublechecks    In general... 10 years from seed, it looks like?  What's the size when they start to fruit?  They appear to be monoecious, although I'm not sure if they're self fertile (no problem if they're not, but it's good to know).  Soil mix about 50/50 organic material / sand, kept moist?  All Butias deal well with dry climates, but only a couple (incl. B. capitata) tolerate humidity well?  What are the flowering and fruiting seasons like, and whats the shelf life like?  Thanks  :)

[richnorm]

4 hours ago, KarenRei said:

 

Is the nectar edible?  Useful Tropical Plants lists no known edible uses for their only Pritchardia species, P. pacifica.  But indeed, quite attractive - the leaves remind me a bit of Lodoicea (which I desperately wish I could grow, but it's just not practical)

 

It hasn't killed me yet! I have a robust form of Pritchardia minor which drips nectar when in season.  Not much of a feed admittedly but a bit of fun for the kids. These grow well in deep shade and look even more luxurious though of course the growth rate is slower.  I could send you seed...

[KarenRei]

I may well later take you up on that offer    I'll probably also be back asking questions about it based on whatever cultivation details I have trouble digging up tomorrow or the day after.

(Also, fun for the kids is always good. Anything to get parents to visit!  )

[richnorm]

Parajubaea toraylii can be very fast if you get the right form. They produce perfect mini coconuts and fruit prolifically from a young age.

[richnorm]

Another surprising choice given its caustic properties could be Caryota urens which can be made into a delicious syrup (not sure if from seeds or sap).  This one is also a very fast grower in optimal conditions and adds variety to leaf forms in a group setting.

[Xerarch]

I’m not sure anyone has mentioned Jubaea Chilensis yet, sap is commonly used (thought it kills the tree), also isn’t  the fruit edible also? Or at least the nut?

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

2 hours ago, KarenRei said:

A couple quick Butia questions / doublechecks    In general... 10 years from seed, it looks like?  What's the size when they start to fruit?  They appear to be monoecious, although I'm not sure if they're self fertile (no problem if they're not, but it's good to know).  Soil mix about 50/50 organic material / sand, kept moist?  All Butias deal well with dry climates, but only a couple (incl. B. capitata) tolerate humidity well?  What are the flowering and fruiting seasons like, and whats the shelf life like?  Thanks  :)

Butia fruit young and are all self fertile.  If you plant a 15g you will have fruit in two years with ease and they'll fruit year round if kept warm. 

[Xenon]

Oenocarpus have edible fruits and oil. O. bataua has a high oleic acid content. 
Some Attalea spp. also yield edible fruits and oil. 
Also have to mention the controversial oil palm, Elaeis guineensis. The raw oil is used extensively in West African cuisine. 

An edible starch, sago, can be extracted from Metroxylon. 

[PalmatierMeg]

I'm sure you are aware of date palms, i.e., Phoenix dactylifera, which would need to be grown in a hot, dry environment. Also, some species of palms, including Euterpe sp and Sabal palmetto, have their palm hearts harvested for human consumption. Locally here in SWFL a local community hosts a yearly "Swamp Cabbage Festival" to honor FL's State tree: Sabal palmetto by featuring dishes of cooked palm hearts. A lot of slow-growing Sabals give their lives to support this regala. In Madagascar and other parts of the world some palm species are endangered because populations have been destroyed for their palm hearts. Also, cultures around the world have made forms of palm wine from fruits and saps of various palm species although you may not have alcohol production in mind when you designed this project.

[KarenRei]

17 hours ago, richnorm said:

Parajubaea toraylii can be very fast if you get the right form. They produce perfect mini coconuts and fruit prolifically from a young age.

Looks interesting, will research  :)

17 hours ago, richnorm said:

Another surprising choice given its caustic properties could be Caryota urens which can be made into a delicious syrup (not sure if from seeds or sap).  This one is also a very fast grower in optimal conditions and adds variety to leaf forms in a group setting.

Sap from the inflorescence.  Of course you can do that with lots of palms (including unwanted males of dioecious species that have little other utility), but if the yield and sugar concentration is good it could be worth it   

16 hours ago, Xerarch said:

I’m not sure anyone has mentioned Jubaea Chilensis yet, sap is commonly used (thought it kills the tree), also isn’t  the fruit edible also? Or at least the nut?

Useful tropical plants says:

Fruit - candied and used as a sweetmeat.The fruit is about 5cm in diameter.
Seed - raw or cooked. A pleasant nutty flavour raw, they are also used in sweetmeats. The seed is about 5cm in diameter.
An edible oil is obtained from the seed.

Of course, I always hesitate to trust these sorts of "general descriptions", preferring instead personal accounts    I'll definitely look into it, though. Strange that the way of tapping this one involves killing it... most palms are tapped via non-destructive means, such as incisions in bark or inflorescences. Seems like such a waste.
 

15 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Butia fruit young and are all self fertile.  If you plant a 15g you will have fruit in two years with ease and they'll fruit year round if kept warm. 

Excellent, that's wonderful.    

11 hours ago, Xenon said:

Oenocarpus have edible fruits and oil. O. bataua has a high oleic acid content. 
Some Attalea spp. also yield edible fruits and oil. 
Also have to mention the controversial oil palm, Elaeis guineensis. The raw oil is used extensively in West African cuisine. 

An edible starch, sago, can be extracted from Metroxylon. 

O. bataua: " The thin, oily mesocarp has a chocolate-like flavour, and is very popular" - okay, that definitely makes it worth investigating (even though most descriptions of fruit tasting like chocolate on the net are lies    )  Sounds like the pulp, too, has flavour beyond just being oily, so that's a good thing - even though it is an oily fruit.

Attalea - geez, there's a lot of these!  Any clue which ones are good (not merely "edible")?    I see info that says that Attalea cuatrecasana supposedly has the largest seeds in the world after Lodoicea, yet the pics I've found certainly don't look that big. Attalea butyracea gets 4/5 stars on Useful Tropical Plants, but I think that's mainly for the sap... the description of the fruits sounds sort of "meh". A speciosa also gets 4 stars. The description on A. maripa sounds kind of nice. A. colenda gets 4 stars, but sounds like it's only for oil.   Any tips on specific good-tasting species?

Elaeis guineensis - Yeah, I had considered it, but ... you know, what do you do with a fruit that tastes like a mouthful of tasteless cooking oil?  Get people to try it on a dare?    Or press it and try to convince people to get people to spend several times more for oil that they could buy at a grocery store down the road?  I mean, there is some value to food that people know but have never seen grown (we'll probably do cashews for that reason, even though there are better fruits than cashew apples), but E. guineensis just doesn't seem practical. 

Metroxylon - I don't think cultivating a whole palm just to cut it down for tasteless flour will be practical  ;)

9 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I'm sure you are aware of date palms, i.e., Phoenix dactylifera, which would need to be grown in a hot, dry environment. Also, some species of palms, including Euterpe sp and Sabal palmetto, have their palm hearts harvested for human consumption. Locally here in SWFL a local community hosts a yearly "Swamp Cabbage Festival" to honor FL's State tree: Sabal palmetto by featuring dishes of cooked palm hearts. A lot of slow-growing Sabals give their lives to support this regala. In Madagascar and other parts of the world some palm species are endangered because populations have been destroyed for their palm hearts. Also, cultures around the world have made forms of palm wine from fruits and saps of various palm species although you may not have alcohol production in mind when you designed this project.

Indeed - there's a good spot for them in the main, drier dome (although so far I'm impressed with how much my P. dactylifera seedlings are doing in my rather moist environment.. they certainly like heat, though!)

The hearts of most (all?) palms are edible, although obviously not all are of equal quality.  It'll be a nice consolation prize whenever we have to remove some (e.g. excess males of dioecious species, trees that fail to produce or cause problems for other plants, trees that outlive their productive life, etc).  But I think growing some just for their hearts would be a waste.

Alcohol production is a good question, and something I need to talk more with Hjördís about (I brought it up at one point previously, but we haven't really discussed it).  Food products that have effects on the mind in general.  You know, I wouldn't be comfortable introducing new plants here that are addictive or have bad health effects (say, betel or khat), but what about plants like, say, kava, which have an effect on the mind, but not necessarily a bad one?  It's a good question.

Either way, sugary saps have a lot of uses beyond brewing    Just don't want to overdo it; diversity is important.

[caixeta]

Attalea phalerata : edible fruits.

[KarenRei]

Are you saying that this is a particularly tasty Attalea?  The Useful Tropical Plants description is: "The fruits are consumed by chewing or sucking the fibrous part surrounding the seeds when ripe. The bright yellow, oily fruits are up to 11cm long and carried in large bunches. Seeds - rich in oil." Listed as 2/5 stars.

Doesn't sound spectacular, but if you have personal experience, definitely let me know!   

Edited February 15, 2018 by KarenRei

[caixeta]

Not spectacular , but in my opinion the best of the Attaleas .

[PalmatierMeg]

Just a quick point about P. dactylifera. They can grow and survive in humid climates like FL but produce vastly inferior fruit in a humid environment. If you want to harvest quality dates you must grow them in a hot, dry climate.

[KarenRei]

Geez... was researching A. engleri, and couldn't find any info about its sap productivity (since it's apparently tapped as well), but I looked up info on A. pinnata, and.... 14000 kg of sugar per hectare?  Equating to over 100000 litres per hectare?  That's 10 litres per square meter of plant... talk about productive! The sap is also nearly 1% potassium too... impressive.  I wonder if A. engleri is as productive as its sibling?  Obviously one has to choose between flowers and sap, though...  the downside to A. pinnata itself is that unlike A. engleri, its flowers are said to smell bad.

1 hour ago, caixeta said:

Not spectacular , but in my opinion the best of the Attaleas .

Okay, thanks 

43 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Just a quick point about P. dactylifera. They can grow and survive in humid climates like FL but produce vastly inferior fruit in a humid environment. If you want to harvest quality dates you must grow them in a hot, dry climate.

Okay, thanks for the clarification.  That's no problem for now, as right now, their only job is to grow  ;)

[KarenRei]

On 2/15/2018, 12:29:33, richnorm said:

It hasn't killed me yet! I have a robust form of Pritchardia minor which drips nectar when in season.  Not much of a feed admittedly but a bit of fun for the kids. These grow well in deep shade and look even more luxurious though of course the growth rate is slower.  I could send you seed...

Followup question (looking into Pritchardias now    ).  I'm finding amazingly little about nectar production in Pritchardias - just that it exists and is suspected to be important for some Hawaiian birds. So it drips out?  On its own, out of random flowers, or does it persist in the flowers and you have to "empty" them somehow?  What do you estimate the production rate is (in whatever units you want, even "drops"    ) when they're in-season, and when does their season run?  Lastly, how sunny is the environment that yours are in?  Thanks!

[KarenRei]

Chamaedorea questions    

So, I'm finding info that suggests that a lot of Chamaedorea species are known for edible flowers - I find info about C. costaricana, C. elegans, C. graminifolia, C. sartorii, C. schippii, C. pinnatifrons, and C. tepejilote. The latter two state "male inflorescences", while the rest say simply "inflorescences".  Are all Chamaedorea species flowers edible?  Is it just that the female inflorescences are uninteresting in some species?  C. fragrans isn't listed - are its flowers edible?  Contrarily, are the other species' flowers fragrant also like C. fragrans, or is it exceptional in the genus in the scent of its flowers (hence the name)?

[KarenRei]

Bactris ferruginea - somewhat hard to find info about this one.  The info I find says its an understory plant, and yet all of the (few) pictures I find are in full sun.   How much shade does it actually like?  Also, what's the flowering / fruiting season like, and how good is the shelf life?  Thanks 

Edited February 17, 2018 by KarenRei

[richnorm]

9 hours ago, KarenRei said:

Followup question (looking into Pritchardias now    ).  I'm finding amazingly little about nectar production in Pritchardias - just that it exists and is suspected to be important for some Hawaiian birds. So it drips out?  On its own, out of random flowers, or does it persist in the flowers and you have to "empty" them somehow?  What do you estimate the production rate is (in whatever units you want, even "drops"    ) when they're in-season, and when does their season run?  Lastly, how sunny is the environment that yours are in?  Thanks!

All variable by species,,,  One species (Pritchardia viscosa) is even named for the nature of its nectar. Quantities produced would never be any use commercially but the inflorescence can appear wet with beads of nectar.  Bit of fun for the visitors I would think.  I can try to tap an inflorescence if you're really keen.

 Full sun to full shade for most Pritchardias but faster in the sun.  I'm guessing you will be using that abundant Icelandic geothermal electricity to supplement natural light in winter.  

cheers

Richard

[caixeta]

12 hours ago, KarenRei said:

Perguntas de Chamaedorea    

Então, estou encontrando informações que sugerem que muitas espécies de Chamaedorea são conhecidas por flores comestíveis - Eu encontro informações sobre C. costaricana, C. elegans, C. graminifolia, C. sartorii, C. schippii, C. pinnatifrons e C. tepejilote. Os últimos dois estados "inflorescências masculinas", enquanto o resto diz simplesmente "inflorescências". Todas as flores da espécie Chamaedorea são comestíveis? É só que as inflorescências femininas não são interessantes em algumas espécies? C. fragrans não está listado - suas flores são comestíveis? Ao contrário, as flores da outra espécie são perfumadas também como C. fragrans, ou é excepcional no gênero no aroma de suas flores (daí o nome)?

12 hours ago, KarenRei said:

Chamaedorea questions    

So, I'm finding info that suggests that a lot of Chamaedorea species are known for edible flowers - I find info about C. costaricana, C. elegans, C. graminifolia, C. sartorii, C. schippii, C. pinnatifrons, and C. tepejilote. The latter two state "male inflorescences", while the rest say simply "inflorescences".  Are all Chamaedorea species flowers edible?  Is it just that the female inflorescences are uninteresting in some species?  C. fragrans isn't listed - are its flowers edible?  Contrarily, are the other species' flowers fragrant also like C. fragrans, or is it exceptional in the genus in the scent of its flowers (hence the name)?

12 hours ago, KarenRei said:

 

12 hours ago, KarenRei said:

 

12 hours ago, KarenRei said:

 

Chamaedorea fragans : Does not produce fruits ,but one the best plant scents , it's it worth .

[caixeta]

9 hours ago, KarenRei said:

Bactris ferruginea - somewhat hard to find info about this one.  The info I find says its an understory plant, and yet all of the (few) pictures I find are in full sun.   How much shade does it actually like?  Also, what's the flowering / fruiting season like, and how good is the shelf life?  Thanks 

9 hours ago, KarenRei said:

 

Partial sun, fruiting in the summer , well cared for lasts long years.

[KarenRei]

@caixeta - Thank you for the info!

6 hours ago, richnorm said:

All variable by species,,,  One species (Pritchardia viscosa) is even named for the nature of its nectar. Quantities produced would never be any use commercially but the inflorescence can appear wet with beads of nectar.  Bit of fun for the visitors I would think.  I can try to tap an inflorescence if you're really keen.

 Full sun to full shade for most Pritchardias but faster in the sun.  I'm guessing you will be using that abundant Icelandic geothermal electricity to supplement natural light in winter.  

cheers

Richard

Just trying to get a sense of volume, aka whether we would be talking "10 drops per child who visits" when in season, "one drop per 1000 children", or whatnot when in season, and how long the season lasts 

In general we'll be growing plants in the lowest light environments in which they can still produce a "somewhat decent" yield - because so many plants will only produce in full sun, and many will outright die in the shade; plants that can take shade and still yield something useful are much less common.  We can always have a greater number of plants to make up for lower shade-yields per plant, where necessary. There's lots of "understory" space available (so long as we don't obstruct walking paths / commercial space), but sun space is limited obviously the outer perimieter / tallest canopy species, particularly the south side (but this being Iceland, the sun shines even from the north in the summer    ).  The plant layout is going to be an interesting balancing act. 

Yes, there will (for very obvious reasons!) be supplemental lighting in the winter, and yes, power in Iceland is over 99% renewable  . It's rare that the sun shows itself at all near the solstice (it peaks at under 2° over the horizon, so pretty much anything can block it).You mainly just get 5-6 hours of "dim", because the sun takes a very low angle just behind the horizon.  We can choose where we want more supplemental light relative to other locations.  And if some plant turns out to be particularly good, we can up its lighting (not total winter light quantity, since that's fixture-limited, but we can extend supplemental lighting further into fall and spring, or even summer)

Edited February 17, 2018 by KarenRei

[Darold Petty]

 

Many palm parts are  listed as edible but they are not palatable.  Early human populations had a much more sporadic and insecure food supply.  Rhopalostylis sapida is listed as having an edible spadix.  This part can be very large (2-3 kg).  I tried eating one of mine, but it was quite insipid and not appealing.

  Perhaps I should have used  a larger quantity of olive oil and garlic!   I estimate about 15 years from seed before flowering for this species. 

[KarenRei]

38 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

 

Many palm parts are  listed as edible but they are not palatable.  Early human populations had a much more sporadic and insecure food supply.  Rhopalostylis sapida is listed as having an edible spadix.  This part can be very large (2-3 kg).  I tried eating one of mine, but it was quite insipid and not appealing.

  Perhaps I should have used  a larger quantity of olive oil and garlic!   I estimate about 15 years from seed before flowering for this species. 

Indeed - I don't even trust it when generic plant descriptions say "tasty" - I always seek out people who've actually eaten the plants in question.  E.g. if you'd standard plant descriptions you'd think that black sapote tastes like chocolate.    Edible != tasty.

[Jamesasb]

i think butia nuts are also edible aswell as just fhe fruit, my dog breaks open the seeds for the nuts when they arrive through the letterbox-- they have a very high oil content. 

Edited February 17, 2018 by Jamesasb

[KarenRei]

Yeah, the seeds have an edible oil that's sometimes pressed for use in commercial products (also being investigated for use in biodiesel).  The seeds themselves are also stated to be edible, at least for the species I've seen which mention one way or another.  But I have no clue whether they're any good; edible != good  ;).  Apparently your dog thinks they're good!  Have you ever tried one?  They may be bitter; I've seen some adviced for cooked pindo palm products advising to remove the seeds first because they can make the food bitter.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9b6b/c1cc342c26ef0857b7d4f67c76277652badb.pdf

"Butia seeds have a nut that is usually discarded when fruit is processed for frozen pulp. The nut of B. capitata is rich in fiber and lipids. The lipid content is predominantly composed of saturated medium chain fatty acids such as lauric (C12:0) and oleic acid (C18:1). The minerals in greater quantities are potassium, phosphorus, magnesium, and sulfur (Faria et al., 2008a,b). Nuts of B. odorata and B. eriospatha are rich in phenolic compounds and carotenoids, which are positively correlated with its high antioxidant capacity (Sganzerla, 2010). The same author extracted oil from the nuts, obtaining oil content for B. odorata ranging from 29% to 56%, and for B. eriospatha from 26% to 50%. Regarding the fatty acid profile, lauric, capric, and oleic acid were present in greater quantities. The high fat, fiber, and mineral content of Butia nuts indicates a potential for use as an ingredient in the food industry or animal feed, improving the texture and fortifying the products"

Edited February 17, 2018 by KarenRei