Pushing the limits of Cocos

[wrigjef]

I am new to this forum, but not my love for palms. I know this topic has been visited several times over the years but I haven't seen it recently. I have read many of your threads over the past several months just taking in years of palm talk that I never knew existed. There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum and I hope I can add to it. Not sure if yall know you can google specific topics about palms and read threads from seven years ago that were written by all of you reading this, thats impressive in my mind. That is how I found out this existed. Tyrone in Perth, Marine in Central Cal, Tropical zone 7, Andy in Michigan, are just a few of the many that have shaped this topic. Christobal if your out there, share how the TJ Coco is doing.

I too have pushed the limits of a coconut palm and I would like to share it with you. I was in Key West, Fl in 1991 with a buddy and the day we were leaving I found a coco on the beach that had a thumb size sprout poking out of it. I brought it back with me to Mobile, Alabama (30.69 N) where I was going to college at the time, University of South Alabama. I planted it in a homemade "pot" which was actually a kitchen garbage can made of plastic. At the time I had no idea that a sand base would be benificial. My mentality was that it grew out of sand so why not plant it in sand, all sand which is what it did. Anyone who knows the Gulf Coast, they know its the best sand in the world! Sorry I am a little biased. so I keep it in this garbage can pot for a year, I do have picture that I am not sure can be posted. Its a picture from a camera from the 90's which is a funny thought nowadays. After a year I put it in another real plastic pot and kept it on my porch outside my house. I brought it inside a few times in the winters but minimal only when frost was a threat.

Not knowing that my palm had kind of established itself in Mobile climate after two years in a pot, I decided to plant it in the ground. It was the end of 1993, winter of all times and I planted it in the back yard of the house I was renting on the southwest side of the house. I really did baby that palm over the next 3.5 years until I got a job in Tampa, Florida (27.94N) That palm was my boy and I wasn't leaving Mobile without it, so I dug it up. At that time it was at least 8 feet with multiple splitting fronds.

I moved to the East side of Tampa, Temple Terrace which is actually too far north for Cocos to grow long term. I kept it in a pot of the next 3 years and it shrunk in size to about just over my head 6 feet. It struggled in the pot after planting for sure but what was I going to do with it living in an apartment. In early 2000, I got promoted with my job which took me to my current location Scottsdale, Arizona and had to do something with my 9 year old palm and brother. Yes my palm was my brother. I knew Cocos wouldn't survive in AZ long term so I had to find someone worthy. I put out an email to some friends in the Tampa Bay area and boy did they come out of the woodwork. Everyone wanted the famous palm that was plucked from the beach in the Keys, lived on campus and was in an out of pots. After a lot of thought as to the right long term home for my brother Coco, I chose a friends house in South Tampa just north of MacDill Air Force Base just feet from Tampa Bay. Anyone who knows the area will agree that this is one heck of a solid microclimate.

So we planted the palm next to Ricks pool in South Tampa, the pot weighed at least 200 lbs as it took 3 of us to move. This was February of 2000. My palm looked beat, was about 6 feet tall, no trunk at this point. I moved to Scottsdale and completely forgot about my palm which is really odd for me. I lose touch with Rick and basically its end of the story. Not Really. In 2009 I get an email out of the blue from Rick and its a picture of a Coconut Palm that is at least 30 feet tall and filled with coconuts. I am dumbfounded to hear its my palm we planted in 2000. I cound not believe that would be possible. How in the world could a palm go from 6 feet to 30 feet in 9 years. It is a reality, I just didn't believe it could be my palm.

Bad news after this point as many Floridian's will attest. Once I got the pic of my palm I was getting monthly updates. December of 2010 there were several days of hard freezes and continued into 2011 and my boy completely defoliated. It recovered somewhat through early spring of 2011 but he passed away before summer and had to be put to rest. It was hard to deal with, you all understand. So I'm living in Scottsdale and I have a new coco....

[empireo22]

Thanks for posting your story about your Coco! It would be cool if you could upload some pictures of it. Thanks

[Hammer]

Welcome to the forum! Cocos is the reason I got the bug for palms too. Please do post some pictures!!!!!

[aztropic]

Hi Jeff and welcome to Palmtalk.You will find that there are several Phoenix area people here growing palms with hundreds of exotic species growing in the area.I grow many of the tough,slow growers of the Caribbean like Pseudophoenix and Coccothrinax in the ground with little to no protection.If you ever plan on expanding your collection,this is the place to find survivability information from others real life experiences.By the way,I did have a coconut palm planted in the ground 2003 - 2007.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[Walt]

Yes, January 2011 and December of 2011 were very bad. Not just low temperatures, but prolonged, day after day below normal temperatures. I'd say about 1/3 of the coconut palms here in Highlands County (close to the lakes and on very high ground) were killed. The ones in low-ground areas (where I live) were definitely killed -- although my small coconut palm survived only because I protected it.

Although my coconut palm is small (four feet of trunk) it's impractical to try and protect the entire palm. To do that the palm would have to be cinched up, bundled, wrapped and protected with string lights or heating cables.

Years ago I used to wrap the entire palm, but not any more. Now I limit my protection to just the trunk and meristem, by spirally wrapping a thermostatically controlled heating cable around the trunk, up and past the meristem, then wrap a quilted mover's blanket around the trunk to hold in the heat. I only activate the cables once temps fall below 35 degrees. It works like a charm. The fronds get fried but the palm regenerates new fronds over the course of the spring, summer, and fall. It may not be ideal but it's the price one has to pay if they want a coconut palm in my low 9b climate. In fact, some winters it's 9a, like it was in December of 2011 when my open yard low dropped to my all-time low (in the 14 years I've lived here) of 20.8 degrees!

The below photos represent the good and the bad times of my small coconut palm.

Above Photo: My small coconut palm after the freezes of January 2010. Note the fried bird of paradise behing the coconut palm. Note the Adonidia palm (undamaged) that I bundled, wrapped, and used a heating cable on.

Above photo: My small coconut this past January. It wasn't as cold this winter as in 2010, so my coconut wasn't quite as frond damaged, at least in this photo. The damage got more pronounced as the days went by. I did protect the trunk and had removed the protection for this photo.

Above photo: Compare the above photo with photo one. Graphic proof that my little coconut palm survived. It should look even better with more than two more months left in the growing season.

Above photo: A closer view of how my small coconut palm looks as of today, 09-09-12. Yes, the key is to protect the trunk and meristem. I believe if I continue to protect my coconut palm it should out live me.

[Hammer]

Yes, January 2011 and December of 2011 were very bad. Not just low temperatures, but prolonged, day after day below normal temperatures. I'd say about 1/3 of the coconut palms here in Highlands County (close to the lakes and on very high ground) were killed. The ones in low-ground areas (where I live) were definitely killed -- although my small coconut palm survived only because I protected it.

Although my coconut palm is small (four feet of trunk) it's impractical to try and protect the entire palm. To do that the palm would have to be cinched up, bundled, wrapped and protected with string lights or heating cables.

Years ago I used to wrap the entire palm, but not any more. Now I limit my protection to just the trunk and meristem, by spirally wrapping a thermostatically controlled heating cable around the trunk, up and past the meristem, then wrap a quilted mover's blanket around the trunk to hold in the heat. I only activate the cables once temps fall below 35 degrees. It works like a charm. The fronds get fried but the palm regenerates new fronds over the course of the spring, summer, and fall. It may not be ideal but it's the price one has to pay if they want a coconut palm in my low 9b climate. In fact, some winters it's 9a, like it was in December of 2011 when my open yard low dropped to my all-time low (in the 14 years I've lived here) of 20.8 degrees!

The below photos represent the good and the bad times of my small coconut palm.

Above Photo: My small coconut palm after the freezes of January 2010. Note the fried bird of paradise behing the coconut palm. Note the Adonidia palm (undamaged) that I bundled, wrapped, and used a heating cable on.

Above photo: My small coconut this past January. It wasn't as cold this winter as in 2010, so my coconut wasn't quite as frond damaged, at least in this photo. The damage got more pronounced as the days went by. I did protect the trunk and had removed the protection for this photo.

Above photo: Compare the above photo with photo one. Graphic proof that my little coconut palm survived. It should look even better with more than two more months left in the growing season.

Above photo: A closer view of how my small coconut palm looks as of today, 09-09-12. Yes, the key is to protect the trunk and meristem. I believe if I continue to protect my coconut palm it should out live me.

Walt, what are the specs on those heating cables? And where did you get them? Do they come with a thermostat or did you have to purchase something separately? Thanks.

[wrigjef]

Thanks for the replies everyone, Walt your trees and plants look amazing. I wil try to post some pics of my coco as soon as I can. I also have a coco in a pot outside in my atrium I bought through ebay. It arrived just after the 4th of July shipped from Puerto Rico. I think its a Malayan Dwarf but I'm not entirely sure. I have a unique microclimate at my house as I have an atrium that has walls on 4 sides and an open top that is about a 12 foot square. I have two banana plants, a Lemon tree, 3 Birds of paradise, and the coco in the atrium. I have had a thermometer hanging from the lemon tree that shows the high and low temp of the day as well as humidity. The hottest it has ever gotten in the atrium after two years of recording is 98 degrees. The coldest I have seen it was 44 degrees last winter when the Phoenix area had some frost and several temps were reported to be near freezing. I feel like with minimal protection I could keep the winter lows above 60 degrees. The humidity is actually quite high for Arizona standards. If I do nothing the humidity is between 45-50 percent because of all the greenery putting off humidity. If I spray down the plants, the humidity stays above 60 percent for hours in there. I am going to keep my coco in a pot for a few years to see if it will survive its envirnment and hopefully plant in the ground one day.

I made the mistake of putting in full sun two weeks after it arrived and it fried the fronts pretty badly. I have been keeping it in the shadows of my lemon tree so it does not get full sun anymore. I think it was in shock for the first month or so as it did not push any new growth. The last two weeks its pushing a new spear although the tip is burned. Its planted in a 20 gallon pot with 75 percent sand and 25 percent Palm and cactus mix. I have not ferltilized yet and probably need some advise on that anyhow.

[Walt]

Walt, what are the specs on those heating cables? And where did you get them? Do they come with a thermostat or did you have to purchase something separately? Thanks.

I use EasyHeat AHB heating cables (typically used for tracing outdoor water pipes covered with insulation to prevent pipes from freezing). I have both 24 feet and 40 feet lengths. Many other lengths are also available. I have at least 10 sets of these cables as well as strings and strings of string lights.

The thing is, insulation is probably more important than the heating cables. If you have good insulation only minimal heat is needed, at least in my applications where hours below freezing aren't too long, but could be up to 8 -10 hours in a worst case scenario. But even then, it would be no problem.

Caveat: Even though heating cables are only warm to the touch, using too many close wraps (spirally wound) around a palm can be too much if left on too long. I know, as I once killed an adonidia palm using them. Further, the cables can not be allowed to touch crownshafts, lest you will develop scorch marks when the cables run too long. A crown shaft should be first covered with a terry cloth towel or equivalent, that way there is no direct contact and the heat is better dispersed.

But I found using the cable directly to a palm's trunk does not hurt it. I use my cables directly to Archontophoenix species, Dypsis leptochelios, Roystonea regia, Adonidia merrillii, Sygrus botryophora , et al.

I've had my cables for years and ordered them at a local hardware store, but I have more recently ordered them online through Amazon. My cables have in integral in-line thermostat that activates the cables at 38 degrees and de activates the cable at 45 degrees. Also, the plug is lighted, so you know if you have electricity to them. I can see the plug lights from my house windows, which gives me assurance that everything is okay, a circuit breaker hasn't tripped, etc. My cables are rated at 7 watts/lineal feet. So a 40 feet long cable produces 280 watts. The cables are super soft, supple, and pliable. Much more so than a standared extension cord. I once bought a different brand of heating cables (they were bright yellow) and they were only 2 watts/LF and they were very stiff. I didn't like them at all.

I know how to use these cables effectively and safely; hence I am a believer in them. I like them better than string lights, at least for palm trunk wrapping. But I will use almost anything that works to keep my palms from cold damage.

Here's a link to various EasyHeat cables:

http://www.newegg.co..._-pla-_-NA-_-NA

Below photo: Shows my coconut palm two years ago, showing how I spirally wrapped a 40 feet long heating cable around the trunk and up past the meristem. I then wrapped 2-3 wraps of quilted mover's blankets (I bought them from Harbor Freight), and secured them with spring-type clothes pins. I stuffed rags down in the top of the mover's blanket where the fronds came out.

[wrigjef]

I spoke to a friend who was on the trip to Key West with me and he said it was spring break 1994 that I pulled the coco off the beach so I apoligize for the wrong year. I used to go to the Keys often one or two times a year until I moved out West and thought it was the 1991 trip but I was wrong. Here is a picture I took of the palm on September 10th 1995. I need Rick to send me the pictures of the palm in Tampa before it died, I have them stored on a old blackberry that went dead.

[Hammer]

I spoke to a friend who was on the trip to Key West with me and he said it was spring break 1994 that I pulled the coco off the beach so I apoligize for the wrong year. I used to go to the Keys often one or two times a year until I moved out West and thought it was the 1991 trip but I was wrong. Here is a picture I took of the palm on September 10th 1995. I need Rick to send me the pictures of the palm in Tampa before it died, I have them stored on a old blackberry that went dead.

Great photo! I have one that is nearly identical in size to yours in that old picture. I hope I am as lucky with it as you were.

[Hammer]

Walt, what are the specs on those heating cables? And where did you get them? Do they come with a thermostat or did you have to purchase something separately? Thanks.

I use EasyHeat AHB heating cables (typically used for tracing outdoor water pipes covered with insulation to prevent pipes from freezing). I have both 24 feet and 40 feet lengths. Many other lengths are also available. I have at least 10 sets of these cables as well as strings and strings of string lights.

The thing is, insulation is probably more important than the heating cables. If you have good insulation only minimal heat is needed, at least in my applications where hours below freezing aren't too long, but could be up to 8 -10 hours in a worst case scenario. But even then, it would be no problem.

Caveat: Even though heating cables are only warm to the touch, using too many close wraps (spirally wound) around a palm can be too much if left on too long. I know, as I once killed an adonidia palm using them. Further, the cables can not be allowed to touch crownshafts, lest you will develop scorch marks when the cables run too long. A crown shaft should be first covered with a terry cloth towel or equivalent, that way there is no direct contact and the heat is better dispersed.

But I found using the cable directly to a palm's trunk does not hurt it. I use my cables directly to Archontophoenix species, Dypsis leptochelios, Roystonea regia, Adonidia merrillii, Sygrus botryophora , et al.

I've had my cables for years and ordered them at a local hardware store, but I have more recently ordered them online through Amazon. My cables have in integral in-line thermostat that activates the cables at 38 degrees and de activates the cable at 45 degrees. Also, the plug is lighted, so you know if you have electricity to them. I can see the plug lights from my house windows, which gives me assurance that everything is okay, a circuit breaker hasn't tripped, etc. My cables are rated at 7 watts/lineal feet. So a 40 feet long cable produces 280 watts. The cables are super soft, supple, and pliable. Much more so than a standared extension cord. I once bought a different brand of heating cables (they were bright yellow) and they were only 2 watts/LF and they were very stiff. I didn't like them at all.

I know how to use these cables effectively and safely; hence I am a believer in them. I like them better than string lights, at least for palm trunk wrapping. But I will use almost anything that works to keep my palms from cold damage.

Here's a link to various EasyHeat cables:

http://www.newegg.co..._-pla-_-NA-_-NA

Below photo: Shows my coconut palm two years ago, showing how I spirally wrapped a 40 feet long heating cable around the trunk and up past the meristem. I then wrapped 2-3 wraps of quilted mover's blankets (I bought them from Harbor Freight), and secured them with spring-type clothes pins. I stuffed rags down in the top of the mover's blanket where the fronds came out.

Thanks Walt! This is getting the old wheels turning. One of my challenges will be "Water proofing" the cables and blankets during the rainy winter months here in SoCal. ...and the extended cool weather here. I may need to set the thermostat on these higher than you and for longer periods to keep from losing my tree.

I noticed you have the cables touching the petioles. No issues with burn?

[Hammer]

Apologies wrigjef. I think I am hijacking your thread.

[Walt]

Hammer: Yes, there is an issue with the cables contacting the petioles. Actually, the cables will eventually scorch any green tissue (e.g., leaves, rachis, petiole). But so will string lights if the bulbs have enough heat intensity. I place rags between the cables and petioles where the cables contact them (I just didn't show it in that photo).

Again, if one uses an insulation of high R-value far less heat is needed, at least in my case where the hours below freezing is short.

Years ago I wanted to know what the temperature was inside the wraps around the trunk of my coconut palm. I carefully placed a remote sensor (to my Oregon Scientific thermometer base station) inside the wrap, but well away from the heating cable so that the sensor wouldn't be unduly influenced by it. My base station/sensor has the hi-lo feature and the temperature inside the wrap never dropped less than 55 degrees F when my over night low dropped into the high 20s.

The heating cables are fully water proof to rain and heavy dew. They are not designed to be submerged in water, say like a coy pond, etc.

I generally install my insulation right before sundown, as many cold fronts bring with it a line or rain showers during the day (which would soak the insulation, destroying it's insulative value, actually making it a conductor of heat away from the palm).

Below is a photo of my coconut palm back in 2010 when I then used a quilted mattress cover to wrap the trunk with. You can see a terry cloth towel in the upper end of the wrap that was stuffed into and between the emerging petioles to keep cold air from draining down into the wrap.

[tikitiki]

I'm from Mobile and the tought of a coconut being in the ground there is beyond my comprehention.

[DoomsDave]

wrigjef!

Welcome to the forum!

Hmm. Sounds like you might be able to have some serious palm fun in Kleenex AZ, with your altitude and lack of frost. You might even be able to get a coconut to grow. I know they grow in Arabia, near the sea, so heat's not a big problem.

dave

[wrigjef]

Hammer, your not hacking the thread this is all good stuff but thanks anyhow.

Tikitiki, your right putting a coco in the ground in Mobile is a pretty ridiculous thought but no more than Jacksonville and I have seen a few threads where people have attempted it. Both places are far too north to expect long term growth which is why I chose to uproot and bring to Tampa. As it turned out South Tampa was even too cold although I think if Rick had made an attempt to protect, he might be still enjoying it today.

Thank you Dave for the response, I agree Arizona has a lot of opportunities to experiment with palms although growing a coco under normal conditions here is not one of them. Our winter temps are just too low to consider it. However, with that being said if you had a microclimate such as my atruim to keep temps above 60f (16c) in winter I think there might be a chance.

In 2000 when I moved here, I didn't even consider bringing my Coco as I knew we were far too cool in winter at night, much cooler than even coastal California. I grew up believing Cocos need water, heat, sun, high humidity, and winter normal lows above 60f. I still believe these are true for optimal growth, but I now question the humidity part. I see Dubai in the UAE has very simular summer weather as Phoenix although they are much warmer in winter. I figured with my atrium I could keep winter lows above 60 fairly easily at least until the tree grow above the 12 foot high opening. I bought this Coco from Puerto Rico in early July and it arrived in poor looking condition and I made thing worse by putting it in full sun two weeks after it arrived. I tried to acclimate it by only putting outside at night when the temps were cooler and I did this for another two weeks. In early August I put in full sun for a few hours and it fried the fronds. I now keep it in partial sun underneeth my lemon tree and its pushing a new spear although burnt. I could use some advise on what should be done to nurse this back to health. I have not fertilized yet. I will upload some pics soon. Jeff

[wrigjef]

[Hammer]

Time and water during the warm weather. It will recover from the sun burn in time. From what I gather, the tree doesn't need fertilizer for the first year-ish. It draws nutrients from the coconut.

[PANGEA EXPRESS]

welcome wrigjef!

ive been growing mine like an indoor outdoor cat-coconut, hauling it in and out whenever the temps wont kick its butt.

its about 3 years old now

your doesnt look to badly burned, mine gets burned much worse everytime i bring it out permanently at spring

heres my coco

[wrigjef]

Thanks Hammer, I won't fertilize then. I just wasn't sure. Pangea, your Coco is beautiful! That is about the size I would like to get mine before I considered putting it in the ground. I knew palm fronds could get sun burned, but my damage happened in about 3 hours of direct sunlight. At what point is it ok to put out in full sun? Mine has been in partial sun outside now for about a month. This summer has felt more like Florida, we have had one heck of a nice monsoon and with the exception of a two week period in the 110 plus range, its been rather mild by AZ standards. My night time lows have been in the 70's since early June and the high's in my atrium have not even hit 100 degrees. Here is a picture of the thermometer I keep in my atrium. You can see the high temp was 89 with a low of 73 and the humidity is 51 percent. This is very good growing conditions, my car showed 100 degrees on my way home from work so it was considerably cooler in the atrium.

[PANGEA EXPRESS]

after 1 month of being in filtered light it should be ok to put in full sun. Just make sure you water enough in weather like that a potted coconut could get thirsty lol

[wrigjef]

I will move it into the sun tomorrow, I think its a good week for it as we have had plenty of cloud cover with the monsoon. Its about to storm again tonight, thanks

[PANGEA EXPRESS]

good luck fellow limit pusher!

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Great story Jeff

Maybe you should try a parajubaea torallyi outdoors a great coconut substitute and hardy to 20 f

[wrigjef]

Thank you Pangea, same to you. Keep that Coco thriving.

Troy,

How well do you think the Mountain Coconut would do in Arizona heat? Summer highs are often between 104f (40c) to 113f (45c) for months. I'm not sure how one of those palms would do in this climate. Its my understanding they grow at high altitudes above 2000 m (6561ft) so in their natural habitat I wouldn't think they would see temps anywhere near the extremes we see. Do they grow in Tasmania? Your temps seem to be more appropriate for that type of palm. I'd be curious to know if anyone has successfully grown one in the deserts of the world.

[Hammer]

...or try Beccariophoenix Alfredii. I have two and they have seen 100+F temps here this summer. They are bifid leaf stage, in black pots, in full sun. They didn't skip a beat. They kept right on growing. In fact, the leaf tips didn't even dry out as long as I was consistent with the watering.

[aztropic]

How well do you think the Mountain Coconut would do in Arizona heat? Summer highs are often between 104f (40c) to 113f (45c) for months. I'm not sure how one of those palms would do in this climate. Its my understanding they grow at high altitudes above 2000 m (6561ft) so in their natural habitat I wouldn't think they would see temps anywhere near the extremes we see. Do they grow in Tasmania? Your temps seem to be more appropriate for that type of palm. I'd be curious to know if anyone has successfully grown one in the deserts of the world.

I have seen these growing in the ground year round in the Phoenix area. They seem to take full western sun without any damage and appear to be an excellent replacement for a queen.In fact,I will be removing a queen from my front yard to provide a spot for this Parajubaea.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[wrigjef]

Thanks for the info Aztropic. Did you find that Parajubaea at a local nursery? It's definitely a nice looking palm along with the Alfredii and a viable alternative for those of us who would struggle growing Cocos. There is just something about a Coconut palm that cannot be replaced. I do like the fact that you are replacing the Queen Palm. Not one of my favorite palms at all. Many local Queen Palms look so beat here in Phoenix. I am not saying there aren't healthy looking specimens here, I just don't care for them much in comparision to the others we can grow.

Jeff

[aztropic]

A friend brought that Parajubaea back from So. Cal but I know exactly what you mean about being able to watch a real coconut grow.I have a couple fresh ones (pic) myself to study over the winter.Unfortunately,our local nurseries rarely carry anything exotic.Over the years,I have seen bottles,bismarcks,spindles,kings,triangles,coconuts,foxtails,and even a stray cuban royal every so often,but to get anything else,a long drive to California is in order.Occasionally,craigslist or ebay have had some unusual species,but just checking the for sale section or placing your own wanted ad here at palmtalk will yield good results on the rarer species.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[wrigjef]

I figured the Parajubaea had to be brought in from somewhere else. We don't get many exotics here in Arizona. I think nurseries bring in palms that very easily can grow here so to not have to replace them in a guarantee with the purchase. I have seen many states in the northern half get more exotics because nothing can really grow there without serious protection anyway and they sell them as indoor plants.

Your Cocos look nice, where did you get them? Lowes or HD in Cali lol. The one on the right looks like a Jamacian Tall, is it? Tell me about the Coco you had in the ground from 2003-2007. Five years is a long time to have one in the ground here, that may be a record. It would be incredible to get one to fruit here. I know that sounds ridiculous but I seriously think we have the length of heat needed to do so. Its our desert lows that make it difficult for long term sustainability. Spring training games in March the sun is incredibly hot already. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think our grow season is from March through mid to late October which is close to eight months. We really don't get the extemes they seem to get in South Texas and Florida.

[aztropic]

Those 2 coconuts are the "certified green malayan" (jamaican dwarf) variety,and came from FL.The one that I had growing in the ground started as a 3 gallon HD special that was immediately put into a 15 gallon pot where it grew like a rocket on our patio.Instead of a solid roof,the patio is covered with green shadecloth and plants growing under it seem to do exceptionally well.It lived outdoors,year round,but was brought inside only a few times each winter if lower 30's temps were predicted.After a few years,it was over 8 ft tall in the pot and was becoming too much to move around.In the spring,the decision was made to plant it out.It was planted in my best microclimate right next to a bottle palm that is still happily growing.A heating cable was buried under and around the planting hole,and the tree was decorated with C9 Christmas lights over the winter.Once planted in the ground,it did grow a few new fronds each year but never seemed to have quite the same vigor it had while growing in a pot.I think this may have been attributed to the lack of the shade cloth.The winter of 2007 finally proved to be more than it could handle,even though it was totally covered with additional heat supplied with a heat gun during an unusual dip into the mid 20's. It declined all spring into summer when it finally rotted out.

If your atrium also had a shadecloth covering,and stayed above 40 on our coldest nights,I'm confident you could grow a coconut there for several years.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[aztropic]

Here's a picture of the bottle palm that the coconut was planted next to.This tree only gets covered when I see the temps going below 30. Heat can be provided if necessary,but some years,like last year,no protection was ever necessary.It was planted from a 3 gallon directly into that spot about 12 years ago and is still very happy.Apparently,bottles are a little hardier than coconuts! Pic taken today.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[aztropic]

If you look at the trunks of both the bottle,and the Cuban royal to the right of it,I believe this was the 2007 freeze shown by the small,tight,growth rings.Other palms in my yard show the exact same pattern of growth rings.Lots of palms completely defoliated that year;a few of them died but a lot came back.It takes 2 years of growth before they look normal after one of those events!

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[wrigjef]

Thanks for sharing about the Coco, too bad it didn't make it. Your Bottle looks healthy, although not very many fronds. I didn't realize Royals could survive here until I saw on while playing Golf at McCormick Ranch. Someone has a very large one growing right next to a pond on the edge of their property. It has to be 50 plus feet. Not sure if it were a Cuban or American Royal but it was beautiful. The growth ring damage is noticable, amazing trees will show their past stress easily. I will have to keep my eye out for a Royal or Bottle, those are very tropical and a rare sight here.

Jeff

[Zeeth]

This is an interesting topic, I'd like to see some pics of your coconut in it's prime! In Sarasota I'm testing different coconut cultivars to try and find one which is at least marginally hardier to our winters, which can be damaging to coconuts some winters and kill most of them in ones like we had in Jan 2010. There is one exceptional coconut that I noticed that didn't get any damage (at all!) in the terrible winter (or the winter right after which was also pretty bad) while all of the coconuts around it were completely defoliated and are only now beginning to look normal again. Today I checked on it and I got 3 ripe fallen coconuts from underneath it to try and sprout, so hopefully that'll be another one I can add to my collection!

[aztropic]

Your Bottle looks healthy, although not very many fronds.

You may not be aware of it but bottle palms never hold more than 5 fronds at any one time.Cuban royals can be found here and there around Phoenix.I've seen at least a dozen with over 10 ft of wood.I have 4 with at least 6 ft of wood.They seem to be able to take our desert conditions if you can start them out with protection from the western sun.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[wrigjef]

I did not know Bottles only held up to 5 fronds at a time, good information. I will have to keep my eye out for more Royals around town. I have only seen one in person and the other was in a picture down by the courthouse in Phoenix.

Keith,

I love the Sarasota area, Siesta Key is arguably the nicest beach in the country. Destin certainly rivals it but if I remember correctly Destin's sand is more like sugar and Siesta is more like baby powder, so soft. You got it made down there brother, you can grow just about anything provided we don't see a winter like the past few any time soon. Share some pics of you Cocos if you can, I never get sick of looking at them. I emailed my friend in South Tampa and he is going to look for some pics of my old Coco, it would be great to have the pics back in my portfolio.

[aztropic]

I will have to keep my eye out for more Royals around town. I have only seen one in person and the other was in a picture down by the courthouse in Phoenix.

A few areas to check out with royals in the Phoenix area... South side of the state capitol.They have a palm garden with 1 30 ft royal and many other hardier palms.Also a large royal poinciana there.

Royal palms resort on Camelback road has one at the end of the entrance road and many other tender palms and tropicals.

43 rd ave and olive up in Glendale - at least 50 ft in someones yard.

Elephant bar restaurant on Chandler Blvd/near 101 has 2 on the north side.1 of them has fronds reaching over the 2 story building.

Treeland nursery on Arizona ave has an oasis with large royal,triangle,bismarck,trithrinax,ribbons,mules,sabals,etc.

Various yards around Phoenix.

Have Fun Exploring!

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[wrigjef]

Thanks Aztropic,

I will go exploring and try to take some pics of them.

[Xerarch]

I posted a photo of that big royal at the AZ state capitol a while back, it is really something. The are quite a few palms and non-palms there that are worth seeing that you don't see commonly around town.