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Are There Zone 11 microclimates in Southern California?


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#1 insipidtoast

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 06:28 AM

If so, where?

Edited by insipidtoast, 25 October 2011 - 06:28 AM.

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#2 MattyB

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:21 AM

In my living room.
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Matt Bradford
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Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)
10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)
9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

#3 paulgila

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:45 AM

thats more of a 10b if you ask me. :bemused:
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the "prince of snarkness."

still "warning-free."

san diego,california,left coast.

#4 MattyB

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:19 AM

You're right, the zone 11 is in my bed, hayooooooo!

Happ knows all about this since he lives in one of the few true zone 11 areas in SoCal. It's not like it's hot and tropical in these areas, they just have a sweet spot, usually with excellent canyon cold air drainage, and they just don't usually drop below that 40 F mark. I think the southern side of the Santa Monica Mtns. from Topanga, eastward over to the Ghetty Center, and continuing along Sunset Blvd towards the Hollywood Hills is the largest zone 11 in CA. I bet Mt. Miguel in SD County and the top of Cowels Mtn. and Mt. Helix are close to a zone 11 also.
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Matt Bradford
"Manambe Lavaka"
Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)
10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)
9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

#5 BS Man about Palms

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 01:17 AM

some say Mission Hills area and near the S D airport is zone 11
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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
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#6 MattyB

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:02 AM

Maybe up on the hill, Mt. Soledad too? It seems topographically right. But we though that Matt's place in UTC was going to be awesome since it was on the south side of a hill with a huge canyon below it and his place gets cold.....go figure. :blink:
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Matt Bradford
"Manambe Lavaka"
Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)
10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)
9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

#7 paulgila

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 10:23 AM

i wanna see some proof that there is a true zone 11.
in socal,NOT in mattybs bedroom. :angry:
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the "prince of snarkness."

still "warning-free."

san diego,california,left coast.

#8 trioderob

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 12:02 PM

he said living room not bedroom

whats on your mind ?
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#9 paulgila

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 12:54 PM

triode:
step 1.check 1st line of post #4

step 2.get yerself some new glasses. :mrlooney:
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the "prince of snarkness."

still "warning-free."

san diego,california,left coast.

#10 insipidtoast

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 04:14 PM

triode:
step 1.check 1st line of post #4

step 2.get yerself some new glasses. :mrlooney:


I was doing a tour of a garden outside of Summerland, California the other weekend. The caretaker said that he had put a few weather units that recorded the coldest temperature of an entire year. He positioned one in the wash area, and another a few hundred feet up the way on a hill. The wash measured 30 whereas the hill area measured 45.

This is coastal California though. I am pretty sure that Santa Barbara's foothills are all frost-free. I call it the Plumeria belt, because it's the only place in town where people can actually grow nice-looking plumerias. I believe that's a good indicator for the sort of climate I'm looking for.

Do these frost-free climates exist in inland areas where real estate is cheap? The coast is more for tourists who have wet dreams about California, who don't know any better, and come here in shorts and T-shirts only to shiver in our thick marine layer.

Edited by insipidtoast, 26 October 2011 - 04:17 PM.

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#11 Stevetoad

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 04:35 PM

Santee is a true zone 11. Hot humid all year long, coconuts around every corner, my palms grow 12 feet a year even when I try to slow them down...if you believe me then You can come over and I'll let you meet my unicorn that poops skittles! Posted Image
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"it's not dead it's sleeping"
Santee ca, zone10a/9b
18 miles from the ocean
avg. winter 68/40.avg summer 88/64.records 113/25

#12 happ

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 06:44 PM

antmaps.com/interactive-california-usda-plant-zone-hardiness-map.php

The above link is a map that identifies various climate zones for California. The Santa Monica mountains from Malibu to the Hollywood Hills is designated USDA 11. Actually it extends well east to near Pasadena and down the foothills to around Montebello\ Pico Rivera. Also San Diego bay northward to Encinitas. But zone 11 in southern California merely means frost-free. A common characteristic for this micro-climate is elevation above a basin, the ocean, canyon; south-facing foothills and diurnal winds\ night winds; good drainage and air mixing. For example the orange groves in San Joaquin valley are planted in the foothills on either side of the Central Valley; it isn't zone 11 but shows where drainage allows for sensitive citrus. The avocado and even macadamia groves in San Diego county are almost all located in the foothills. I have asked old timers who live on the same road as me if they have ever witnessed frost; after a long pulse they invariably admit that they can never recall a time where frost occurred in this hills. But even lowland areas such as where the official weather stations in Los Angeles\USC and San Diego\Lindbergh Field are located did not record minimums below freezing during the last two Arctic outbreaks in 1990 and 2007 and both are in zone 10. Even parts of San Francisco are frost-free.

But, as we know, being frost-free doesn't mean these California areas have anything else in common with other USDA zone 11 regions such as Miami, Honolulu or Baja California. Without the high humidity\ summer rainfall, very warm nights even in winter and often dry winters we cannot grow the classic palm of zone 11; coconuts! :lol:
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Los Angeles/Pasadena
34 10' N 118 18' W
Elevation: 910'/278m
January Average Hi/Lo: 69F/50F
July Average Hi/Lo: 88F/66F
Average Rainfall: 19"/48cm
USDA 11/Sunset 23
http://cdec.water.ca...rogs/queryF?MTW

#13 happ

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 06:52 PM

http://www.plantmaps...rdiness-map.php

Sorry, here's the correct link.
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Los Angeles/Pasadena
34 10' N 118 18' W
Elevation: 910'/278m
January Average Hi/Lo: 69F/50F
July Average Hi/Lo: 88F/66F
Average Rainfall: 19"/48cm
USDA 11/Sunset 23
http://cdec.water.ca...rogs/queryF?MTW

#14 Jubaea

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 07:09 PM

Thanks for the link. The one interesting spot I see is an area North of Sacramento marked 10a. The map is very generalistic so it only would suggest where zone 10 and 11 may occur.
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#15 sebasroch

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 02:49 PM

in santee there are coconuts?
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#16 Stevetoad

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 04:25 PM

1319842141[/url]' post='494957']
in santee there are coconuts?


There like weeds out here. The swallows carry in the nuts and drop them everywhere. I'm in a constant state of pulling out the seedlings....oh wait...they re washies....my bad. Posted Image
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"it's not dead it's sleeping"
Santee ca, zone10a/9b
18 miles from the ocean
avg. winter 68/40.avg summer 88/64.records 113/25

#17 MattyB

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 08:14 AM

mmmmm, skittles poop
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Matt Bradford
"Manambe Lavaka"
Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)
10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)
9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

#18 insipidtoast

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:56 PM

antmaps.com/interactive-california-usda-plant-zone-hardiness-map.php

The above link is a map that identifies various climate zones for California. The Santa Monica mountains from Malibu to the Hollywood Hills is designated USDA 11. Actually it extends well east to near Pasadena and down the foothills to around Montebello\ Pico Rivera. Also San Diego bay northward to Encinitas. But zone 11 in southern California merely means frost-free. A common characteristic for this micro-climate is elevation above a basin, the ocean, canyon; south-facing foothills and diurnal winds\ night winds; good drainage and air mixing. For example the orange groves in San Joaquin valley are planted in the foothills on either side of the Central Valley; it isn't zone 11 but shows where drainage allows for sensitive citrus. The avocado and even macadamia groves in San Diego county are almost all located in the foothills. I have asked old timers who live on the same road as me if they have ever witnessed frost; after a long pulse they invariably admit that they can never recall a time where frost occurred in this hills. But even lowland areas such as where the official weather stations in Los Angeles\USC and San Diego\Lindbergh Field are located did not record minimums below freezing during the last two Arctic outbreaks in 1990 and 2007 and both are in zone 10. Even parts of San Francisco are frost-free.

But, as we know, being frost-free doesn't mean these California areas have anything else in common with other USDA zone 11 regions such as Miami, Honolulu or Baja California. Without the high humidity\ summer rainfall, very warm nights even in winter and often dry winters we cannot grow the classic palm of zone 11; coconuts! :lol:



vVery NIce lesson!!!!! Thank you. Time to do my homework.
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