Please help ID this Dioon/Cycad

[Kansas]

Please help me ID this correctly. I got it for $30 and thought it was a good deal.

[LJG]

Dioon spinulosum. Now common at Home Depot

[Jeff Searle]

(LJG @ Jan. 30 2008,23:42)

QUOTE

Dioon spinulosum. Now common at Home Depot

Len,

     Your getting real good, real good.

Jeff

[LJG]

(Jeff Searle @ Jan. 30 2008,21:17)

QUOTE

(LJG @ Jan. 30 2008,23:42)

QUOTE

Dioon spinulosum. Now common at Home Depot

Len,

     Your getting real good, real good.

Jeff

This one is too easy. I am good at the easy ones.

[tropicalb]

Len....are you absolutely SURE that's what it is?

[Kansas]

Not to disrespect you, but I have two Spinulosum already and I KNOW they are SPinulosum as I got them from one of the World's most foremost experts in Dioon/Cycad. This person also said it might be a Mejiea (sp?) but he has not seen the pics as I lost my e-mail addy to him.

  But this one pictured has leaflets all the way down to the center of the caudex. Spinulosum have a bare stem for about 1/4 the way up from the caudex.

 I don't think it is a Spinulosum.

[LJG]

Dioon mejiae and spinulosum are very similar. However Mejiae tends not to have marginal spines on the leaflets. Of course some do, but I have never seen one with amount yours does. The fact you got it at a store for $30 also tells me it is Spinulosum since Mejiae are not as common.

I do not know what to say about your comment that the leaflets start 1/4 the way up the petiole on your "true" Spinulosums. Sounds like those are not spinulosum or were grown in deep shade and are really stretched.

Anyway, that is my guess. There are many extremely smart cycad people on this forum, so lets see what they go with.

[tropicalb]

omg I was just kidding....Len is correct, to me it most definitely IS a spinulosum.

While not being an "expert" myself, D. mejiae leaflets do not have spines like that, especially at the 5 gal plant stage, not to mention the complete lack of tomentum on the rachis on the plant you have pictured.

I'll post pics of each later if i have the time, as i currently grow both plants.

[Kansas]

The two Spinulosum I have, have both put out 2 flushes each, in bright sun in 6 months and all the leaves do NOT have leaflets until 1/4th of the way up. This tree, I have had for 8-9 months and has not flushed once with the exact same light and water schedule.

 I might also add that the store I bought it from, I asked what kind it was and the owner admitted that he had no clue what it was. So the fact that it was $30 is not saying much as the owner admitted he had no clue.

[Cycadcenter]

OK Here are my thoughts on the subject:

Here is a Dioon mejiae backside of the leaf showing the heavy tomentum present.  It also reduces to spines the whole way down.

This photo shows the topside of the leaf.  Also note the tomentum still present and no spines on the leaflets

Now here is a Dioon spinulosum showing NO tomentum on the leaves and reducing all the way down.

And here is a photo of the topside noting the margin spines on the leaflets

Hope this helps.

Bruce

[Kansas]

CycadCenter,

 I know a guy that just bought from you in South Carolina. Thanks so much for your photos. I trust your ID. I'll call it a Spinulosum. Thanks!!

[LJG]

That was like pulling teeth.  :laugh:

[tropicalb]

i guess a picture really IS worth a thousand words.  

[Kansas]

 Yes, the pics were REALLY helpful.

 So actually, some Spinulosum have leaflets all the way to the caudex, and some don't??

[Cycadcenter]

So come on Kansas, spill the beans and let us know who the "Dioon Expert" is?

Bruce

[tropicalb]

yeah...i wasn't aware that Jeff C. was busy running around Topeka in the dead of winter hawking dioons.

JUST KIDDING!!!!

[Kansas]

Cycadcenter, check your PM, I didn't want to name the guy on here. Just think it would be unprofessional to do that.

 I also asked about purchasing some things from you.

[Kansas]

Burt, do you ship outside of California? I am looking to spend around $120 this year and really like your Panzhi & Rumphii pics.

[tropicalb]

Unfortunately, I'm not doing shipping at all at this point....something i may do in the future though. There are lots of growers on this forum that do ship. I'm sure more than one of them will respond to your request!

Thanks for the nice comments! I've only been growing for the last four years, and I've finally got enough inventory now where I have material that is ready to sell, but at this point it's all local pickup only.

[virtualpalm]

I realize this is a slightly old topic, but I felt that I might weigh in on it nonetheless.

Not only can Dioon spinulosum and D. mejiae be difficult to ID sometimes, when you add in D. rzedowskii (the third "tree dioon," as I like to refer to this group of relatively closely related species), things get even more sticky. Below is a key that I created to distinguish between these three species (taken from a recent paper published in the proceedings of the CYCAD 2005 conference held in Xalapa, Mexico):

I hope this helps. As always, please feel free to contact me privately at jody@plantapalm.com if you have any questions.

Jody

[Alicehunter2000]

Kansas.........whatever it is..........I think it is a great looking cycad for $30.

[virtualpalm]

The plant in question is definitely Dioon spinulosum.

Jody

[Kansas]

Alice, Thanks. When I asked the guy how much it was, he stated $30, I was like Wyatt Earp and drew from the hip faster than anything you have ever seen

Jodi (Virtual), Thanks. The "expert" I was speaking of earlier is a ole buddy of yours, but again, he had not seen pics of it. After CycadCenter & You both agreeing on it, I will label it Spinulosum. I am kinda glad it is a Spinulosum as the other two I have are VERY aggresive growers.

[Charles Wychgel]

(LJG @ Jan. 31 2008,19:04)

QUOTE

I do not know what to say about your comment that the leaflets start 1/4 the way up the petiole on your "true" Spinulosums. Sounds like those are not spinulosum or were grown in deep shade and are really stretched.

I found this Dioon which the seller said he had grown from seed labeled Dioon spinolosum...but this one looked different than the other ones, not only did it have a long petiole it also was blueish quite unlike the green Dioon spinolosum next to it.

It was grown in a greenhouse with some shade ...but that would not enhance the blue colour now wouldn't it?

Jody I tried the Dioon species key (JC), but I can make hide nor hair of this.

Any thoughts?

A pic of the plant which is now planted in my garden.

[Charles Wychgel]

The leaf of said plant

[Charles Wychgel]

Caudex

[Charles Wychgel]

heart of plant

[Charles Wychgel]

Petiole

[virtualpalm]

Charles,

In my professional opinion, your plant is a slightly aberrant (unusual) individual of Dioon spinulosum. There are no characteristics that indicate to me that it is any other species. I really like the plant, and I would like to see more photos of it as it grows larger.

Jody

[Charles Wychgel]

(virtualpalm @ Apr. 03 2008,11:17)

QUOTE

Charles,

In my professional opinion, your plant is a slightly aberrant (unusual) individual of Dioon spinulosum. There are no characteristics that indicate to me that it is any other species

Jody

Thanks Jody... aberrant is good enough for me as it is not really a freak plant.

Always surprising what greenhouse culture does to plants -  anyways it's planted out now - let's see how it develops.

[Kris]

Here is a one that i saw in banglore in my last visit !And the price they asked was 68 U.S dollars for it.is it worth that price ? for a Dioon spinulosum...

Love,

Kris  

[virtualpalm]

Kris, the value of any plant is really what someone is willing to pay for it. Here in Florida, I think US$68 for that size Dioon spinulosum is high -- particularly since they are both quite chlorotic (being grown in too much sun, most likely). That may very well be a reasonable price in California, though.

Jody

[Kris]

Dear Jody  

thanks for the info..

love,

Kris