Cycas debaoensis hybrid

[happypalms]

I received a bit of information about my supposed cycas debaoensis. Iam not disputing this information but I would like to know if anyone else has had the same experience with this particular plant. It is a cross between debaoensis and multifrondis. And it’s great to know I don’t have the real deal in a way for future propagation and sales, i greatly appreciate the information I was given. It leaves a question of the seller not selling the real deal, and this can lead to a lot of problems with future reference of true plant identification. 

[Dan64]

1 hour ago, happypalms said:

I received a bit of information about my supposed cycas debaoensis. Iam not disputing this information but I would like to know if anyone else has had the same experience with this particular plant. It is a cross between debaoensis and multifrondis. And it’s great to know I don’t have the real deal in a way for future propagation and sales, i greatly appreciate the information I was given. It leaves a question of the seller not selling the real deal, and this can lead to a lot of problems with future reference of true plant identification. 

It’s not the selling hybrids, it’s the not telling buyers what they are buying is what gets me. There is definitely a market out there for hybrids as long as sellers and breeders are telling people exactly what they are getting 

[happypalms]

27 minutes ago, Dan64 said:

It’s not the selling hybrids, it’s the not telling buyers what they are buying is what gets me. There is definitely a market out there for hybrids as long as sellers and breeders are telling people exactly what they are getting 

That’s the one the seller deliberately not saying what they are selling, a bit like eBay seeds selling them long after they are not viable and knowing that they won’t germinate. 
There a good business practices and then there are bad business practices. 
Buyer beware the old saying, it just adds confusion for the grower thinking that they have the real deal and when they wish to sell those plants. 

[Dan64]

Always do your homework and look for pictures of the species of cycad, you’re interested in, taken in the wild where they are native to. As even some botanical gardens have been taken advantage of in the past. You can never know to much about the things you’re interested in.

[Gallop]

Post your question on the FB cycad forum. This has been discussed throughly. You’ll gain a wealth of information so you can make an informed decision on what you might have. You can also look for post by Sim Lav on the topic, he is somewhat of  an expert on Cycas debaoensis. 

I have several “different” C debaoensis plants in my garden. All sellers said for certain they were the real deal. Unfortunately almost all are hybrids.  A couple are nice looking! 

If your plant doesn’t resemble the plant in the picture I’m posting, it’s likley not debaoensis. Keep in mind there are some nice hybrids that favor the true parent plant. However with a close eye you should be able to note the difference. With that being said unless you know the locality of the parent plants it’ll be a nothing more than a guessing game.  Most in the “know” are aware of the sellers that continue to sell questionable seed. Everything I have learned over the last few years indicates Deboaensis is more or less unknown in collections. I personally know die hard collectors still looking for it.

This is a seedling leaf. 

[TropicsEnjoyer]

Yeah I agree people need to be transparent about identifying their plants and even be ok with admitting they’re unsure. Better to say noid then to slap a species name it resembles and end up messing up any future lineage of hybrids. I fear we could lose true species if people only value hybrid plants, nature’s defaults are beautiful too. And this goes for anything not just palms or cycads.

[Dan64]

1 hour ago, TropicsEnjoyer said:

Yeah I agree people need to be transparent about identifying their plants and even be ok with admitting they’re unsure. Better to say noid then to slap a species name it resembles and end up messing up any future lineage of hybrids. I fear we could lose true species if people only value hybrid plants, nature’s defaults are beautiful too. And this goes for anything not just palms or cycads.

I whole heartedly agree, hybrids have their place but just be transparent about what you’re selling. The waters are already muddied with that area of China and we don’t know whether seeds are coming from the wild or from a group of plants in someone’s yard where they don’t care what species are mixed together. They just know they can get decent money for the seeds

[Merlyn]

@happypalms I'd just call yours a "Multifrondis," sort of a generic catch-all term for the hybrid swarm with indeterminate parentage.  Yours could easily be a Deb x Micholitzii, Multipinnata x Bifida, pretty much any conceivable cross between several individual species...or a hybrid of hybrids!  

In reality, anyone selling anything with the word "Debaoensis" in it is probably, most likely, most definitely, nearly certainly wrong.  There's no way to know if any given plant is 100%, 50%, 25%, 12.5%, or 0% actual Deb. 

At this point you can only go by morphology.  You can rule out pure Deb and Multipinnata easily by just checking for real triple dichotomous fronds.  If the side branches don't have side branches, then it can't be Deb or Multip.  If it does, then you have to look at leaf shape, size and leaflet shape.  And then you can post photos in the FB Cycads group and get as close to a positive ID as possible.

[PalmsandLiszt]

On 12/11/2025 at 10:09 AM, Dan64 said:

It’s not the selling hybrids, it’s the not telling buyers what they are buying is what gets me.

I think a lot of European/US sellers don't know what they have; they bought something as a pure debaoensis, so they sell it as such, even if it's not. The original seeds all come from China, where they will sell them as whatever is most profitable; if they turn out not to be, there's not much the buyer can do about it. Most plants/seeds on the market seems to be hybrids, not because most sellers are crooks, but the founder effect of initial unscrupulous Chinese sellers spreading hybrid seeds around. I keep trying to find pure debao/multipinnata seeds, but they always seem to end up turning out to be a likely admixture when I grow them.

[happypalms]

5 hours ago, PalmsandLiszt said:

I think a lot of European/US sellers don't know what they have; they bought something as a pure debaoensis, so they sell it as such, even if it's not. The original seeds all come from China, where they will sell them as whatever is most profitable; if they turn out not to be, there's not much the buyer can do about it. Most plants/seeds on the market seems to be hybrids, not because most sellers are crooks, but the founder effect of initial unscrupulous Chinese sellers spreading hybrid seeds around. I keep trying to find pure debao/multipinnata seeds, but they always seem to end up turning out to be a likely admixture when I grow them.

From what I have been told most of the seeds are collected from gardens, not from wild plants. And when it comes to gardens anything can happen in regards to cross pollination! Either way iam not a hybrid fan, but iam  happy to have such a nice looking plant in the garden. 

[happypalms]

On 1/2/2026 at 12:47 PM, Merlyn said:

@happypalms I'd just call yours a "Multifrondis," sort of a generic catch-all term for the hybrid swarm with indeterminate parentage.  Yours could easily be a Deb x Micholitzii, Multipinnata x Bifida, pretty much any conceivable cross between several individual species...or a hybrid of hybrids!  

In reality, anyone selling anything with the word "Debaoensis" in it is probably, most likely, most definitely, nearly certainly wrong.  There's no way to know if any given plant is 100%, 50%, 25%, 12.5%, or 0% actual Deb. 

At this point you can only go by morphology.  You can rule out pure Deb and Multipinnata easily by just checking for real triple dichotomous fronds.  If the side branches don't have side branches, then it can't be Deb or Multip.  If it does, then you have to look at leaf shape, size and leaflet shape.  And then you can post photos in the FB Cycads group and get as close to a positive ID as possible.

Thanks @Merlyn for the information. It’s good to see you have done your research well, greatly appreciate the information, it kinda solves the problem. Iam not to worried about the fact I have hybrid plants. 
I would be more concerned if it was palms.  Cycas species are a favourite of mine but it’s palms where my heart lies! 

[happypalms]

On 12/31/2025 at 3:13 AM, TropicsEnjoyer said:

Yeah I agree people need to be transparent about identifying their plants and even be ok with admitting they’re unsure. Better to say noid then to slap a species name it resembles and end up messing up any future lineage of hybrids. I fear we could lose true species if people only value hybrid plants, nature’s defaults are beautiful too. And this goes for anything not just palms or cycads.

You think you have the real deal, and when you go to sell them, well we all know what sort of strife it can get a growers reputation in. For now I can accept it, it’s the eBay sellers selling dead seeds knowingly that’s a crime! 

[happypalms]

On 12/30/2025 at 10:05 PM, Gallop said:

Post your question on the FB cycad forum. This has been discussed throughly. You’ll gain a wealth of information so you can make an informed decision on what you might have. You can also look for post by Sim Lav on the topic, he is somewhat of  an expert on Cycas debaoensis. 

I have several “different” C debaoensis plants in my garden. All sellers said for certain they were the real deal. Unfortunately almost all are hybrids.  A couple are nice looking! 

If your plant doesn’t resemble the plant in the picture I’m posting, it’s likley not debaoensis. Keep in mind there are some nice hybrids that favor the true parent plant. However with a close eye you should be able to note the difference. With that being said unless you know the locality of the parent plants it’ll be a nothing more than a guessing game.  Most in the “know” are aware of the sellers that continue to sell questionable seed. Everything I have learned over the last few years indicates Deboaensis is more or less unknown in collections. I personally know die hard collectors still looking for it.

This is a seedling leaf. 

At least you have some nice looking plants in the garden, china is a pretty tough country to get such rare plants from when you consider the laws they have on export of such rare plants. Iam not on Facebook so those questions will have to wait. Iam sure there is someone on FB who knows the real deal deboansis identity. 

[happypalms]

On 12/11/2025 at 10:20 PM, Dan64 said:

Always do your homework and look for pictures of the species of cycad, you’re interested in, taken in the wild where they are native to. As even some botanical gardens have been taken advantage of in the past. You can never know to much about the things you’re interested in.

True and you always learn something new everyday in this world! Just as well i wasnt buying panda bears! 

[Gallop]

37 minutes ago, happypalms said:

At least you have some nice looking plants in the garden, china is a pretty tough country to get such rare plants from when you consider the laws they have on export of such rare plants. Iam not on Facebook so those questions will have to wait. Iam sure there is someone on FB who knows the real deal deboansis identity. 

Keep an eye out for these idenity markers on Cycas debaoensis - extra long secondary petioles, median leaflet that are about the same size as the basal ones. This will be visable even on younger plants. 

[Gallop]

On 1/6/2026 at 5:34 AM, happypalms said:

At least you have some nice looking plants in the garden, china is a pretty tough country to get such rare plants from when you consider the laws they have on export of such rare plants. Iam not on Facebook so those questions will have to wait. Iam sure there is someone on FB who knows the real deal deboansis identity. 

Here is a better picture of a 4yr old seedling I have

[happypalms]

On 1/6/2026 at 10:18 PM, Gallop said:

Keep an eye out for these idenity markers on Cycas debaoensis - extra long secondary petioles, median leaflet that are about the same size as the basal ones. This will be visable even on younger plants. 

Excellent tips thank you. You learn as go and you never stop learning! 

[Merlyn]

On 1/6/2026 at 6:18 AM, Gallop said:

Keep an eye out for these idenity markers on Cycas debaoensis - extra long secondary petioles, median leaflet that are about the same size as the basal ones. This will be visable even on younger plants. 

I hadn't heard about the leaflet size as an ID feature...so of course I had to go look at a couple of my unidentified hybrids.    This species (and group of species) are so weird.  Here's three different fronds...all from the same plant:

Oldest leaf - flushed during a bad scale infestation and very narrow leaflets:

New flush with no scale - dramatically shorter and wider leaflets:

And a big 3rd leaf from an offset growing out of the side of the above plant (still attached).  This looks more Multipinnata than the others with a different side branch attachment angle (more plumose):

If someone showed me all three photos separately, I'd think they were from 3 different plants!

[Dan64]

C. multipinnata (at least pure ones) don’t have side fronds off the main fronds. C. multipinnata has leaflets coming off the main frond that split multiple times. With the differing fronds it’s most likely a C. debaoensis X C. multipinnata hybrid 

[Merlyn]

8 hours ago, Dan64 said:

C. multipinnata (at least pure ones) don’t have side fronds off the main fronds. C. multipinnata has leaflets coming off the main frond that split multiple times. With the differing fronds it’s most likely a C. debaoensis X C. multipinnata hybrid 

Multipinnata and Debaoensis are both tripinnately compund.  Superficially they look similar due to having side branches that have side branches with hands of leaves from there.  Micholitzii and Bifida are ones where the leaves split directly off the rachis.  This plant here was ID'd by Sim Lav as a Multipinnata:

[happypalms]

A can of worms this debate! 

[Dan64]

1 hour ago, happypalms said:

A can of worms this debate! 

Worms are good to mix things up 😁 Good debates get you thinking and learning if you’re open for that learning. I’m all for a good debate and being proven I don’t know what I’m talking about sometimes 

[happypalms]

On 1/13/2026 at 9:11 PM, Dan64 said:

Worms are good to mix things up 😁 Good debates get you thinking and learning if you’re open for that learning. I’m all for a good debate and being proven I don’t know what I’m talking about sometimes 

Iam still trying to learn, and half the time I have no idea 🤣