camelia plants

[gyuseppe]

camelia plants
old camellia plants, they are more than 30 years old

[rprimbs]

Beautiful! I forgot about camelias.  That's a flower that I want to plant.

[Manalto]

They provide excellent winter bloom.

My next-door neighbor had one that had been totally engulfed by a camphor tree, but still alive. Last year, I helped him get rid of the camphor tree, which revealed a scraggly old camellia. One year later, it has bounced back and it's blooming up a storm in a beautiful soft pink.

[Darold Petty]

They are really tough plants, here the well established plants can survive our dry summers with no irrigation.

[happypalms]

Don’t forget about the humble cup of tea camellia sinensis. Another great camellia.

[Mazat]

On 2/2/2025 at 3:53 PM, gyuseppe said:

camelia plants
old camellia plants, they are more than 30 years old

We had untill today no success with Carmelia, why i don't know 🤔☹️. But great plant !

[gyuseppe]

they grow very well here

[Than]

How long does the bloom last?

[gyuseppe]

It lasts several months because they bloom in winter, the flowers last longer in the cold

[Manalto]

Here's another pink one in my neighborhood. I think it may be 'Pink Perfection,' a very old variety that is still popular today.

[Than]

On 2/8/2025 at 5:00 PM, Mazat said:

We had untill today no success with Carmelia, why i don't know 🤔☹️. But great plant !

Perhaps your soil is alkaline?

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, Than said:

Perhaps your soil is alkaline?

May be just a Bay Area thing but these definitely didn't mind our predominantly Alkaline soil profile out there...  Very common sight in yards back in San Jose, esp. those with an oriental - style lean.. 

W/ the emergence of Sudden Oak Death ( Camelia is one of several plants that can host / be killed by S.O.D. ) popularity has probably waned a bit now, but back in the late 2K's / early 2010's,  would sell several hundred of them each spring..

Outside of communities above 5Kft, forget growing them here, even though a handful or two show up at the big box stores right about now....

[Than]

22 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Outside of communities above 5Kft, forget growing them here, even though a handful or two show up at the big box stores right about now....

Too hot?

Our conversation here inspired me and I bought one. A "curly lady". I'll keep it under shade in the summer I guess and let's see. 

[Silas_Sancona]

12 minutes ago, Than said:

Too hot?

Our conversation here inspired me and I bought one. A "curly lady". I'll keep it under shade in the summer I guess and let's see. 

 ..Summer highs 105 -120F / Nights 75 - 90+F  ..pretty much every  day,  until -at least- mid September / start of October, + daily humidity that rarely exceeds 40%  -consistently- ..unless it rains, 75-80% of the year.. = Forget these here, ...and other stuff like Azaleas / Rhododendrons, etc  anywhere outside the mountain communities here in Arizona.

Might even be too hot / dry in the mountains ( Places below 6K ft. ) also to keep these happy long term.

Too fragile of a plant for a place located on the edge of the dry tropics.

[Than]

4 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

 ..Summer highs 105 -120F / Nights 75 - 90+F  ..pretty much every  day,  until -at least- mid September / start of October, + daily humidity that rarely exceeds 40%  -consistently- ..unless it rains, 75-80% of the year.. = Forget these here, ...and other stuff like Azaleas / Rhododendrons, etc  anywhere outside the mountain communities here in Arizona.

Might even be too hot / dry in the mountains ( Places below 6K ft. ) also to keep these happy long term.

Too fragile of a plant for a place located on the edge of the dry tropics.

My microclimate is a bit cooler than your climate, so I will stay positive... for now!

I read that Camellia wants about 700 hours below 7C during winter in order to bloom... I doubt I have that many but let's see. After all this variety's curly branches are equally intriguing.

[Silas_Sancona]

58 minutes ago, Than said:

My microclimate is a bit cooler than your climate, so I will stay positive... for now!

I read that Camellia wants about 700 hours below 7C during winter in order to bloom... I doubt I have that many but let's see. After all this variety's curly branches are equally intriguing.

...Just a bit cooler

Don't recall hearing that they prefer that 700 / 700+ hours of sub 45F exposure from growers we bought from.   That said, did notice they'd flower better during the years winters were a little cooler / wetter back in CA. ..so a defined chill period like that to stimulate more flowers would make sense.

700 / 700+ hours at / below that temp. = roughly 30 / 30+ days.  if located where it is wet at the same time?  = not anywhere i'd live,  lol..  

[Than]

7 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

700 / 700+ hours at / below that temp. = roughly 30 / 30+ days.  if located where it is wet at the same time?  = not anywhere i'd live,  lol..  

I'd expect someone who has been beaten by brutally hot summers like you to long for cooler climates hehe. I'd happily live in a colder climate; I can deal with cold. The summer heat on the other hand exhausts me and makes me grumpy AH. I already try to think of ways to survive next summer. It's only for my leafy babies I live here

[Silas_Sancona]

3 minutes ago, Than said:

I'd expect someone who has been beaten by brutally hot summers like you to long for cooler climates hehe. I'd happily live in a colder climate; I can deal with cold. The summer heat on the other hand exhausts me and makes me grumpy AH. I already try to think of ways to survive next summer. It's only for my leafy babies I live here

   Living in cold winter places = been there / done that  ..NEVER  again  ...No matter what. 


There's a reason i can't remember owning a pair of pants since ...2009,  lol.. 

[Than]

Seriously? I take it you don't work at an office hehe.

Last August I broke up with my partner; now I realise the heat exhaustion played a big role in that decision haha. Thank God we are back together now. I hate the heat..

[Mazat]

19 hours ago, Than said:

Perhaps your soil is alkaline?

yes, that could be. 

[Mazat]

16 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

 ..Summer highs 105 -120F / Nights 75 - 90+F  ..pretty much every  day,  until -at least- mid September / start of October, + daily humidity that rarely exceeds 40%  -consistently- ..unless it rains, 75-80% of the year.. = Forget these here, ...and other stuff like Azaleas / Rhododendrons, etc  anywhere outside the mountain communities here in Arizona.

Might even be too hot / dry in the mountains ( Places below 6K ft. ) also to keep these happy long term.

Too fragile of a plant for a place located on the edge of the dry tropics.

yes, it is hot. I prefer it warm to hot rather than cold.

here we have 86 °F - 100 °F, the maximum temperatures in summer and the minimum temperatures at night 64.4 °F to 73.4 °F in the community garden weather station. the surrounding weather stations are always 35.6 °F to 39.2 °F cooler, it's due to the microclimate downstairs, friends and acquaintances always notice this and are very surprised, it's usually warm and humid.

today we have 53.42 °F max untill now, what is high for winter, when you leave the community garden it immediately gets colder,

almost always.

[Mazat]

17 hours ago, Than said:

Too hot?

Our conversation here inspired me and I bought one. A "curly lady". I'll keep it under shade in the summer I guess and let's see. 

you've really made me want to buy another one, let's see if the lady of the house wants it too, probably more likely yes than no 😁

[Silas_Sancona]

11 hours ago, Than said:

Seriously? I take it you don't work at an office hehe.

Last August I broke up with my partner; now I realise the heat exhaustion played a big role in that decision haha. Thank God we are back together now. I hate the heat..

Me + office job would = like dropping a 3 pound / 1.36Kg chunk of pure Sodium in a bucket of water.. We just don't go together well,  lol..

Only times i've worn / would wear pants would be when out for the night, esp. if at a place that was more upscale / didn't allow customers to wear shorts,  ..or if going to a formal dinner / some special event like a New Year's eve party with a girlfriend.

Same thing w/ a suit / slacks.. On me = About as rare of a sight as a Coconut in San Francisco,  haha..

5 hours ago, Mazat said:

yes, it is hot. I prefer it warm to hot rather than cold.

here we have 86 °F - 100 °F, the maximum temperatures in summer and the minimum temperatures at night 64.4 °F to 73.4 °F in the community garden weather station. the surrounding weather stations are always 35.6 °F to 39.2 °F cooler, it's due to the microclimate downstairs, friends and acquaintances always notice this and are very surprised, it's usually warm and humid.

today we have 53.42 °F max untill now, what is high for winter, when you leave the community garden it immediately gets colder,

almost always.

86-100F days / nights in the mid 60s to about 82F + some humidity ( above 40% on most days )  is definitely nice during the summer ( ..58 - 70F nights would be nice all winter too, ha ha )


Our challenge here is we're right on the edge of that kind of summer weather so,  some summers -when it decides to rain, consistently-,  = extreme heat is kept in check by higher humidity / clouds / 2-4 per week storm events. 

Summers that are super dry?  = ..never ending intense heat, both day and night + very little rainfall is rough, ..on everything..  esp. if your yard has no or just a couple scraggly shade providing trees..

Big enough yard space where you can plant lots of trees to provide bright, shifting shade 80% of the day = keeps the heat under control / helps keep humidity higher - in your yard at least. 

Have that kind of microclimate = can create a pretty lush looking landscape -by desert standards at least.

 Still not cool enough for Camelias / that sort of stuff,  but, list of lush looking stuff we can grow  -provided the right conditions- is pretty extensive, and often very unique, in a dry tropics sort of way.

 

[Mazat]

18 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Ich + Bürojob wäre wie ein 3 Pfund / 1,36 kg schweres Stück reines Natrium in einen Eimer Wasser zu werfen. Wir passen einfach nicht gut zusammen, lol.

Die einzigen Situationen, in denen ich Hosen getragen habe / tragen würde, wären, wenn ich abends ausgehe, insbesondere an einem gehobeneren Ort / wo Kunden keine Shorts tragen dürfen, oder wenn ich mit einer Freundin zu einem formellen Abendessen / einem besonderen Anlass wie einer Silvesterparty gehe.

Dasselbe mit einem Anzug / einer Freizeithose. An mir = Ungefähr so selten wie eine Kokosnuss in San Francisco, haha.

30–38 °C (= 38 °C) Tage / Nächte zwischen 18 und 28 °C + etwas Luftfeuchtigkeit (an den meisten Tagen über 40 %) sind im Sommer definitiv angenehm (15–21 °C (= 15–21 °C) Nächte wären auch den ganzen Winter über angenehm, ha ha).


Unsere Herausforderung besteht darin, dass wir uns direkt an der Grenze zu dieser Art von Sommerwetter befinden, also wird in manchen Sommern – wenn es durchgängig regnet – extreme Hitze durch höhere Luftfeuchtigkeit/Wolken/2–4 Gewitter pro Woche in Schach gehalten. 

Supertrockene Sommer? = … nie endende intensive Hitze, Tag und Nacht + sehr wenig Niederschlag ist hart … für alles … besonders, wenn Ihr Garten keine oder nur ein paar struppige Schatten spendende Bäume hat … Ein

ausreichend großer Garten, in dem Sie viele Bäume pflanzen können, die 80 % des Tages hellen, wechselnden Schatten spenden = hält die Hitze unter Kontrolle / hilft, die Luftfeuchtigkeit höher zu halten – zumindest in Ihrem Garten. 

Ein solches Mikroklima kann eine ziemlich üppig aussehende Landschaft schaffen – zumindest für Wüstenverhältnisse.

 Immer noch nicht kühl genug für Kamelien oder ähnliches, aber die Liste der üppig aussehenden Pflanzen, die wir anbauen können – vorausgesetzt, die Bedingungen sind richtig – ist ziemlich umfangreich und oft sehr einzigartig, in einer Art trockentropischer Art.

 

it's extremely exciting how the climate varies depending on the weather conditions, resulting in an extreme diversity of species that you wouldn't normally expect or even think of.
the term arid-tropical is perfectly apt. 
for example, we find the yucca species and cactus species, to name just two, extremely diverse. the palm species are also included. 
how does a phoenix dactylifera do for you? can it handle it or? can the olive tree with additional watering in a protected place? 
we have a neighbor here who comes from iraq and raved about the phoenix dactylifera, but also said that they had sometimes experienced minus temperatures at higher altitudes, i.e. frost at night and up to 113 °F and more during the day.
we are always told that it is an oceanic climate, i.e. temperate. however, we are now experiencing rather extreme - by our standards - temperature differences between day and night down in the garden. so it is more like a subtropical climate.

it can be 24.8 °F minimum early in the morning and then 62.6 °F maximum during the day, so a big difference by our standards

 

[Silas_Sancona]

52 minutes ago, Mazat said:

it's extremely exciting how the climate varies depending on the weather conditions, resulting in an extreme diversity of species that you wouldn't normally expect or even think of.
the term arid-tropical is perfectly apt. 
for example, we find the yucca species and cactus species, to name just two, extremely diverse. the palm species are also included. 
how does a phoenix dactylifera do for you? can it handle it or? can the olive tree with additional watering in a protected place? 
we have a neighbor here who comes from iraq and raved about the phoenix dactylifera, but also said that they had sometimes experienced minus temperatures at higher altitudes, i.e. frost at night and up to 113 °F and more during the day.
we are always told that it is an oceanic climate, i.e. temperate. however, we are now experiencing rather extreme - by our standards - temperature differences between day and night down in the garden. so it is more like a subtropical climate.

it can be 24.8 °F minimum early in the morning and then 62.6 °F maximum during the day, so a big difference by our standards

 

P. dactylifera is probably the 3rd most commonly planted palm here and does perfect ..esp. if provided a little extra water during the driest years. Heat / occasional sub 0C lows we might see in winter aren't an issue for them at all..  Phoenix even has it's own unique Date variety, the Black Sphinx..


Olives can do quite well here too, though a little extra water helps them look better.  House i'm in atm has a large, old Olive out front.

That temperature range your neighbor mentions makes sense, esp. during the cooler months since while really arid places can heat up -quite a bit at times-  low sun angle / shorter day length = you only have X # of hours to heat things up.  Once the sun sets, all ..or most.. of that heat can quickly radiate away, esp. if the air is really dry..  .which means ...while it might reach 90 or 100F during the day in such a place, it can drop to 0C ..maybe lower.. at night simply because the climate of such an area allows it to..

0 to say 80 miles from an ocean, = more humidity in the air might help narrow such a drastic night / day temperature range, unless the effect(s) of certain weather pattern(s)  reduces X or Y effect that keeps temperatures within a more stable range..  IE: drier air than is typical for X area closer to an ocean allowing more efficient radiational cooling at night / rapid heating once the sun rises..

High desert areas / rain-shadowed valleys closer to the coast here in the Western U.S. and down in Mexico can experience similar wild fluctuations in daily temperature range, especially this time of year at times also..

 

[Darold Petty]

22 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Same thing w/ a suit / slacks.. On me = About as rare of a sight as a Coconut in San Francisco,  haha..

 

Here is the flip side, Nathan !   

[Silas_Sancona]

3 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

Here is the flip side, Nathan !   

Ya can have them both,

I'll stick to " formal " = dress shirt / polo ..and shorts..  Shirt un tucked of course ...sine square-ness isn't my thing..

[Than]

My baby is here 😍 

She's stunning, look at those branches 

[Mazat]

19 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

P. dactylifera is probably the 3rd most commonly planted palm here and does perfect ..esp. if provided a little extra water during the driest years. Heat / occasional sub 0C lows we might see in winter aren't an issue for them at all..  Phoenix even has it's own unique Date variety, the Black Sphinx..


Olives can do quite well here too, though a little extra water helps them look better.  House i'm in atm has a large, old Olive out front.

That temperature range your neighbor mentions makes sense, esp. during the cooler months since while really arid places can heat up -quite a bit at times-  low sun angle / shorter day length = you only have X # of hours to heat things up.  Once the sun sets, all ..or most.. of that heat can quickly radiate away, esp. if the air is really dry..  .which means ...while it might reach 90 or 100F during the day in such a place, it can drop to 0C ..maybe lower.. at night simply because the climate of such an area allows it to..

0 to say 80 miles from an ocean, = more humidity in the air might help narrow such a drastic night / day temperature range, unless the effect(s) of certain weather pattern(s)  reduces X or Y effect that keeps temperatures within a more stable range..  IE: drier air than is typical for X area closer to an ocean allowing more efficient radiational cooling at night / rapid heating once the sun rises..

High desert areas / rain-shadowed valleys closer to the coast here in the Western U.S. and down in Mexico can experience similar wild fluctuations in daily temperature range, especially this time of year at times also..

 

i like the ph. dactylifera very much and i have seen them in egypt on the nile tour. we often buy dates in the discounter. it is only dangerous to say it with humor when we have a visit from the little godchild. she likes to eat them then just puts them in the raised bed and now there are exactly 3 pieces inside which we discovered later. she probably thought if they don't do it, then i just do it ... funny idea if she lived here permanently, then we would have an even bigger jungle in the balcony and we would have to buy separate dates for the little one every day ... would of course be feasible 
the neighbor from iraq misses the warm dry air, he says everything here is too humid for him and in summer it is extremely humid and warm, especially in the garden downstairs. however, he also loves the plants and every day when he gets up, he says he looks at everything in the community garden again.
and only then goes to work, he says.
at the lake directly usda zone 8b it is noticeably milder than usda zone 8a, especially with regard to minimum temperatures, although the distance is actually only 2 km/ 1.24 miles, but we have higher maximum values. and at the lake directly it is very expensive in terms of living house/apartment rent/purchase.
your explanations are very interesting and informative. thank you very much.

 

[Mazat]

5 hours ago, Than said:

My baby is here 😍 

She's stunning, look at those branches 

absolutely🤗.Good choice, we almost have to wait, we've had a drop in temperature and snow, well not much but still and again slight minus degrees.

At the lake, amount of snow compared with community garden.