Dioon edule in cold a wet winter? Questions..

[Mauro]

Hello,  guys  who live in cold temperate climates with hot dry summers and cold wet winters,,,  have you tried Dioon edule in ground? I live in Amman, Jordan where my zone would be considered 9b if talking about absoloute temps. my city is a transitional zone between mediterraean climate to arid steppe.. one or two days per year the temp falls a degree or two below 0 (32f) during winter and we experience 4 inches of snow, but even on these colder days, daytime temps rise to 6-8c ( 42-46f), so it is not a sustained freezing temps.

I have 8 Edule types (4 palma sola, 1 rio verde, 1 tamaulipas, 2 angustifolium) ranging in caudex size from 6 inches for the smallest to 10 inches the biggest, currently in my unheated greenhouse where im growing about 40 cycad species . I would like to plant them in the ground but what scares me is.. we have alot of wet rainy days in Jan and Feb where temp hover around 5c (41f)

My soil is red clay (terra rossa) but of couse i would amend the soil accordingly for Dioons. Do you think Dioons would do fine in this climate of succumb to rot?

While scouring the forums here and on FB cycad groups for relevant indo, ive seen pictures of Dioons surviving the big texas freeze, but my understanding is that winters in Texas in general aren't that wet..? I know Dioon edule is supposed to be hardy to upper or mid teens,, but these readings are for dry cold.

What Do You Think ? i'll be grateful for some input

[Than]

12 minutes ago, Mauro said:

Hello,  guys  who live in cold temperate climates with hot dry summers and cold wet winters,,,  have you tried Dioon edule in ground? I live in Amman, Jordan where my zone would be considered 9b if talking about absoloute temps. my city is a transitional zone between mediterraean climate to arid steppe.. one or two days per year the temp falls a degree or two below 0 (32f) during winter and we experience 4 inches of snow, but even on these colder days, daytime temps rise to 6-8c ( 42-46f), so it is not a sustained freezing temps.

I have 8 Edule types (4 palma sola, 1 rio verde, 1 tamaulipas, 2 angustifolium) ranging in caudex size from 6 inches for the smallest to 10 inches the biggest, currently in my unheated greenhouse where im growing about 40 cycad species . I would like to plant them in the ground but what scares me is.. we have alot of wet rainy days in Jan and Feb where temp hover around 5c (41f)

My soil is red clay (terra rossa) but of couse i would amend the soil accordingly for Dioons. Do you think Dioons would do fine in this climate of succumb to rot?

While scouring the forums here and on FB cycad groups for relevant indo, ive seen pictures of Dioons surviving the big texas freeze, but my understanding is that winters in Texas in general aren't that wet..? I know Dioon edule is supposed to be hardy to upper or mid teens,, but these readings are for dry cold.

What Do You Think ? i'll be grateful for some input

Hi Mauro.

Your climate is identical to mine. I see loads of dioon in my town so I'd say give it a go. After all if you don't try you won't be sure. Can you offer overhead protection? 

[Mauro]

Hi Thanasis good to hear your response, whereabout in Greece is your town? of course if i don't try i'll never know, maybe ill trial one or two for a year and see haaa. About protection, i could offer it, but i'd rather not of course, im not usually a zone pusher but hey.. 

I have many many revolutas in my grounds and they are bulletproof of course

If you could tell me more about the conditions of those Dioons around your town?

Thanks

[Than]

5 hours ago, Mauro said:

Hi Thanasis good to hear your response, whereabout in Greece is your town? of course if i don't try i'll never know, maybe ill trial one or two for a year and see haaa. About protection, i could offer it, but i'd rather not of course, im not usually a zone pusher but hey.. 

I have many many revolutas in my grounds and they are bulletproof of course

If you could tell me more about the conditions of those Dioons around your town?

Thanks

I am in a town in the south called Kalamata. Unfortunately though I am 8km from the coast so the sea doesn't affect my climate. Mountains on the north on the other hand can bring cold air and temperatures fall to around -2 C few nights due to radiation. Those dioons that are under canopy do fine. Do you get frost on the leaves in your garden? 

Would be interesting to know what else you grow. I am a hardcore zone pusher myself haha, which is a recipe for frustration, so I don't recommend it haha.

Glad to see a Jordanian here btw; I am studying Jordanian arabic atm with a Jordanian teacher online. Your dialect of arabic is so beautiful! 

[96720]

The heat will be no problem! Wet cold I don’t know about we don’t get real cold and definitely not wet but I do water mine all winter so I don’t think wet soil would make any difference!! I agree with @Than give it a shot with one and then you will know those sound like some nice cycads for just hiding in the greenhouse!!

[Silas_Sancona]

Dioon edule is pretty tough.. Some specimens in local botanical gardens that are occasionally dusted by snow..  Think it has done well in Oregon, and is grown in the S.F. Bay Area also, so i too don't think winter rainfall would be an issue,  as long the soil it is grown in drains well / isn't a water-logged haven for swamp monsters...

Rainfall wise, these experience anywhere from 39 -60" of rainfall / year in habitat ... Wayy more than we see here ..or in Tucson, at any time of the year..

[GeneAZ]

I live in the lower desert in Arizona in the Sonora desert, the wettest desert in the world, as deserts are ranked.  Now is winter and this is when we get our rains usually.  It's raining this week, as a matter of fact.

 

I've been growing Dioon edule here since 1974 in temperatures from 23F up to 124F and of all cycads, the edule complex is the most tolerant of it all.

At 23F I got zero leaf symptoms in dry conditions.  At 26F I got zero symptoms in wet conditions.  I  mean no discolored leaflets or leaf loss or any detectable complaint.

At 115F and hotter, also no leaf symptoms even in full sun.  Furthermore, my plants were all in containers.

Edule complex plants in the ground at friends' homes did equally as well.

As to your soil being clay, edule is well suited to clay soil in my area, even clay with granite.

I don't think you have anything to stress about with your conditions.

 

Edited January 21, 2024 by GeneAZ

[amh]

You should have no trouble growing Dioon edule in your area. People successfully grow these in San Antonio Texas, which can get very wet and cold During winter and spring. Temperature wise, my potted D. edules have experienced 14F, with no defoliation or leaf damage.  Just don't plant these in a swamp.

[Mauro]

22 hours ago, Than said:

I am in a town in the south called Kalamata. Unfortunately though I am 8km from the coast so the sea doesn't affect my climate. Mountains on the north on the other hand can bring cold air and temperatures fall to around -2 C few nights due to radiation. Those dioons that are under canopy do fine. Do you get frost on the leaves in your garden? 

Would be interesting to know what else you grow. I am a hardcore zone pusher myself haha, which is a recipe for frustration, so I don't recommend it haha.

Glad to see a Jordanian here btw; I am studying Jordanian arabic atm with a Jordanian teacher online. Your dialect of arabic is so beautiful! 

Thanasis i took a closer look at your climate in Kalamata and suffice to say is very similar to my town, so with your story about hellenic Dioons living over there, i planted my smallest one today! so this week has been sunny and the soil dried out enough in between the rains, and i am not know for being very patient so...  in the ground it went. Anyway, with how crowded my small-ish greenhouse has become, i am bound to become a zone pusher like your self haha.

You know, i'm surprised you're learning Arabic, but not surprised about choosing the Jordanian dialect, as it is know to be the most neutral form of arabic among the 20 or so countries who speak the language. you can message me if you have any question  Here i share with you one old greek song i enjoy hearing alot, with the view of theophrasti palms in kriti 
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyaD-RWMsSc

 

IMG_8578.heicIMG_8577.heic

 

Edited January 22, 2024 by Mauro

[Mauro]

19 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Dioon edule is pretty tough.. Some specimens in local botanical gardens that are occasionally dusted by snow..  Think it has done well in Oregon, and is grown in the S.F. Bay Area also, so i too don't think winter rainfall would be an issue,  as long the soil it is grown in drains well / isn't a water-logged haven for swamp monsters...

Rainfall wise, these experience anywhere from 39 -60" of rainfall / year in habitat ... Wayy more than we see here ..or in Tucson, at any time of the year..

Thank you Silas for the advice, i actually went ahead and planted my smallest one today to trial it and soo how it fares in the upcoming storms this February, it's the angustifolium type which is supposedly the hardiest of all them northern Dioons.. You can see a picture of the one i planted today

 

18 hours ago, GeneAZ said:

I live in the lower desert in Arizona in the Sonora desert, the wettest desert in the world, as deserts are ranked.  Now is winter and this is when we get our rains usually.  It's raining this week, as a matter of fact.

 

I've been growing Dioon edule here since 1974 in temperatures from 23F up to 124F and of all cycads, the edule complex is the most tolerant of it all.

At 23F I got zero leaf symptoms in dry conditions.  At 26F I got zero symptoms in wet conditions.  I  mean no discolored leaflets or leaf loss or any detectable complaint.

At 115F and hotter, also no leaf symptoms even in full sun.  Furthermore, my plants were all in containers.

Edule complex plants in the ground at friends' homes did equally as well.

As to your soil being clay, edule is well suited to clay soil in my area, even clay with granite.

I don't think you have anything to stress about with your conditions.

 

Gene, Sonoran desert is my favorite desert scape even though i havn't been, it is a mesmerizing place. One Dioon that i have and is still small is Dioon sonorense, from the Sonora state bordering Arizona. It looks like you've grown Dioons for a looong time! Thank you for the temperature readings  above, i just planted my smallest one today, and angustifolium. this week has been extra sunny so i just went ahead with the trial! See pic below of the plant

 

17 hours ago, amh said:

You should have no trouble growing Dioon edule in your area. People successfully grow these in San Antonio Texas, which can get very wet and cold During winter and spring. Temperature wise, my potted D. edules have experienced 14F, with no defoliation or leaf damage.  Just don't plant these in a swamp.

Wow 14F is very low, however i have read a report by a grower in Texas that of all the Dioons, Edule caudex death occurs before any leaf damage occurs. Anyway, i have planted my smallest Dioon today upon encouragement of several of yalls, thank you, see pic below

 

IMG_8577.heic IMG_8578.heic

[Than]

2 hours ago, Mauro said:

Thanasis i took a closer look at your climate in Kalamata and suffice to say is very similar to my town, so with your story about hellenic Dioons living over there, i planted my smallest one today! so this week has been sunny and the soil dried out enough in between the rains, and i am not know for being very patient so...  in the ground it went. Anyway, with how crowded my small-ish greenhouse has become, i am bound to become a zone pusher like your self haha.

You know, i'm surprised you're learning Arabic, but not surprised about choosing the Jordanian dialect, as it is know to be the most neutral form of arabic among the 20 or so countries who speak the language. you can message me if you have any question  Here i share with you one old greek song i enjoy hearing alot, with the view of theophrasti palms in kriti 
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyaD-RWMsSc

 

IMG_8578.heic 2.36 MB · 2 downloads IMG_8577.heic 4.62 MB · 1 download

 

Wow, a song of Skoulas! He's a legend of Cretan music. Last summer I was in the south of Crete; I wish I knew about this gorge, looks stunning! We went to Preveli gorge which is the second biggest theophrasti forest in Crete and it was wonderful! Have you been to Crete? 

Jordanian arabic sounds divine to me. When I hear my teacher speak my heart melts haha. I was planning to visit Jordan in November and buy a faru3a but I'm building my house now so no cash left for travelling! 

Brave of you to plant stuff in January! I wouldn't do that, too scared. Let us know how they will go! Today has been very windy here, a strong, cold northern wind from Ukraine blowing non-stop. Even though we don't expect less than 3C tonight, I am afraid that the convectional freeze because of the wind will damage my most sensitive plants, like Terminalia catappa. I went out earlier and found that the wind had taken off the horticultural fleece I had covered it with. I found it somewhere in the garden and spent 30 min trying to put it back on. 

Unfortunately, I cannot see your photos, cannot open files with this extension.

 

Edited January 22, 2024 by Than

[Merlyn]

I'd agree with the others.  We frequently see cold/wet/rainy fronts in the winter.  I have 10-12 big Edules in the ground, and none have complained about it down to 24.6F.  We get a lot more rain in the summer, but just last weekend we had rain and 36F at my house.  For reference, my Edules range from 1" caudex seedlings up to 30-50 year old clustering beasts with about a foot of trunk.  Likewise I have had no problems with Spinulosum, Mejiae (some frost damage), Rzedowskii, Califanoi, Angustifolium and Merolae.  In general (out of ~300 cycads) I've only had rot issues with the South African Encephalartos.  They tend to rot in the early spring after a cold/wet winter.  I've lost several Altensteinii, Natalensis, Arenarius, Trispinosus, Horridus and Woodii hybrids to spring rot.

[amh]

On 1/22/2024 at 11:22 AM, Mauro said:

Wow 14F is very low, however i have read a report by a grower in Texas that of all the Dioons, Edule caudex death occurs before any leaf damage occurs. Anyway, i have planted my smallest Dioon today upon encouragement of several of yalls, thank you, see pic below

My plants have always been protected by canopy of some sort, so there is some protection from cold winds.

Cycads seem to acclimate to their growing environment, but I think that the dioons may lose cold hardiness with trunking.

[happypalms]

All the above are correct don’t worry to much about cold wet weather Dioons tough as nails temps as low as 0 degrees Celcius in my area the ones I have there problem is lack of moisture they don’t seem to mind having a drink