Bradford pear replacement

[ZPalms]

I have two Bradford pear trees at the end of my yard, but I'm unsure about which species I could replace them with. I'm open to either native or non-native options. I've been thinking whether I'd prefer something with a tropical appearance, or if I should stick to a native species or try something different, like a fir if any can even grow, or maybe just throwing some palm trees. I'm looking for a tree that grows quickly, reaching a medium to large size quickly.

 

I'd like to consider plants that I can pair with the new tree or grow under it. Since the entrances are on both sides, I've been thinking of something that can look really nice, maybe with ferns growing under the tree or adding a couple more trees to create shade. I'm not entirely sure. I've thought of magnolias, but I'm unsure how aggressive they can be. I've added photo which I only have from google atm if that helps 😅

I've thought maybe of trying

• Betula nigra
• Cunninghamia lanceolata
• Maple of some sorts
• Catalpa, I do have one of these already in the yard

 

[BeyondTheGarden]

These are not fast growers, but why not a Live Oak or Magnolia?  Our native Holly is also pretty nice.  

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, BeyondTheGarden said:

These are not fast growers, but why not a Live Oak or Magnolia?  Our native Holly is also pretty nice.  

A few unusual natives:

Kentucky / American Yellowwood

Kentucky CoffeeTree

Franklinia alatamaha  ..Though this one may be tough to find since it is Extinct in the wild.. 

Gordionia lasianthus, Loblolly Bay looks similar but should be easier to find..

Magnolia macrophylla, dealbati, and M. m. ashei


Clethra pringlei  from N.E. Mexico. Woodlanders would grow it..

Magnolia tamaulipana,  Pretty sure it was being grown by a few gardens out there.

Quercus rysophylla, ..Think several others of the big - leaved, Mexican Oaks are grown at J C Raulston ( Arboretum ) also.

[hinovak]

Trident maples are pretty amazing, grow really fast, good fall color, bullet proof in Texas zone 7b…not a large leaf but a really cool tree non the less. 

[NC_Palms]

Personally I would go for the native subtropical broadleaf evergreens. 

Redbay (persea palustris & persea borbonia) are some of my favorites. Also loblolly bay too, but it’s pretty hard to grow in cultivation. 

I would check out mailordernatives for some ideas. 

 

… Whatever you decide to plant, creating a bed and planting sabal minor around it will look really nice. Also throw some spanish moss on the branches for a nice, southern look 

[amh]

Do you have a lot of wind, and what type of shape are you looking for? Deciduous or evergreen?

[ZPalms]

23 hours ago, BeyondTheGarden said:

These are not fast growers, but why not a Live Oak or Magnolia?  Our native Holly is also pretty nice.  

I would grow those if they grew faster. I considered magnolias, but due to my family's preference, which I could probably convince them to reconsider, they were concerned about magnolias. They mentioned, "Grass doesn't grow under magnolias, and their roots are aggressive, making a mess." I don't see leaves dropping as an issue, as I consider that free compost.

I can't say much about holly because I don't know much about them or if they provide good shade and such. I think they are pretty, though, but I only know them for being bushes.

I do have Sweetbay magnolia growing naturally in my yard, and it does look nice, but they aren't big enough to set seed unless I've never noticed they did or but they aren't that big and I could probably transplant them but I'm not sure if they transplant well but they also seem happy since they set in very wet areas.

22 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

A few unusual natives:

Kentucky / American Yellowwood

Kentucky CoffeeTree

Franklinia alatamaha  ..Though this one may be tough to find since it is Extinct in the wild.. 

Gordionia lasianthus, Loblolly Bay looks similar but should be easier to find..

Magnolia macrophylla, dealbati, and M. m. ashei


Clethra pringlei  from N.E. Mexico. Woodlanders would grow it..

Magnolia tamaulipana,  Pretty sure it was being grown by a few gardens out there.

Quercus rysophylla, ..Think several others of the big - leaved, Mexican Oaks are grown at J C Raulston ( Arboretum ) also.

These are great suggestions! I haven't heard of some of these so I gotta do some searching to see what these plants like!

 

20 hours ago, hinovak said:

Trident maples are pretty amazing, grow really fast, good fall color, bullet proof in Texas zone 7b…not a large leaf but a really cool tree non the less. 

These are really nice, I haven't heard of these but they look like a decent size and growing quick is a bonus and they look good in summer and fall colors look nice!

 

1 hour ago, amh said:

Do you have a lot of wind, and what type of shape are you looking for? Deciduous or evergreen?

They would be sitting very exposed. Currently, a storm with strong winds is blowing through, they would be in direct sun all day. I don't really have a preference as long as the trees don't look ratty, and I'm fine with either deciduous or evergreen.

[amh]

I'm going to second Quercus rysophylla, and also recommend Quercus polymorpha, Quercus fusiformis, and Quercus canbyi.

If you don't mind deciduous trees, pecans and native walnuts can make specimen trees as well. Juglone will limit what can be grown as under-story plants, but Sabal minor and native ferns can be used.

Maybe cultivars of Taxodium distichum?

Edited January 10, 2024 by amh

[Silas_Sancona]

41 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

.

I do have Sweetbay magnolia growing naturally in my yard, and it does look nice, but they aren't big enough to set seed unless I've never noticed they did or but they aren't that big and I could probably transplant them but I'm not sure if they transplant well but they also seem happy since they set in very wet areas.

These are great suggestions! I haven't heard of some of these so I gotta do some searching to see what these plants like!

 

 

Aside from the Magnolia i'd listed, Sweet Bay is a great tree ..though most i've seen were smaller, rather than something that would form a Canopy ..Quickly at least.  Never noticed " bare ground " below any planted specimens of those either.  S. Magnolia? ..different story,  Leaves are extremely thick and will definitely could limit stuff growing below them.

Coffeetree, Yellowwood, and Loblolly Bay should grow in your area ..or close enough that you should be able to collect seed ...if you need to to start any...

Others i'd listed? Would definitely try to make a trip to J.C.  and seek out the listed trees / others that might catch your attention in their collection ..just to see if they fit the idea(s) of what you might be looking for.

Using the Image you posted, seems you have quite a bit of potential space to play around with where you could create a bit of a " forest "  with both some unique natives, and more exotic looking experimentals / trial - type trees.

[NC_Palms]

Another recommendation but longleaf pine? I know it’s not a broadleaf evergreen but it’s technically endangered and ecologically important here. 

 

Also slash pine is super fast growing and worth a shot too 

[ZPalms]

2 hours ago, amh said:

I'm going to second Quercus rysophylla, and also recommend Quercus polymorpha, Quercus fusiformis, and Quercus canbyi.

If you don't mind deciduous trees, pecans and native walnuts can make specimen trees as well. Juglone will limit what can be grown as under-story plants, but Sabal minor and native ferns can be used.

Maybe cultivars of Taxodium distichum?

I'm trying to look over all the trees but its kind of hard to really know without looking at them in person, I have a peacan tree in my yard and I didnt even know they could limit what could grow under them, I thought of bald cypress but I worry they would need a lot of water?

2 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Aside from the Magnolia i'd listed, Sweet Bay is a great tree ..though most i've seen were smaller, rather than something that would form a Canopy ..Quickly at least.  Never noticed " bare ground " below any planted specimens of those either.  S. Magnolia? ..different story,  Leaves are extremely thick and will definitely could limit stuff growing below them.

Coffeetree, Yellowwood, and Loblolly Bay should grow in your area ..or close enough that you should be able to collect seed ...if you need to to start any...

Others i'd listed? Would definitely try to make a trip to J.C.  and seek out the listed trees / others that might catch your attention in their collection ..just to see if they fit the idea(s) of what you might be looking for.

Using the Image you posted, seems you have quite a bit of potential space to play around with where you could create a bit of a " forest "  with both some unique natives, and more exotic looking experimentals / trial - type trees.

I honestly don't think I've seen any Coffeetrees, Yellowwood, or Loblolly Bay from which I could collect seeds. I love the way the coffee tree and yellowwood look, although I can't say much for Loblolly because Google really doesn't have good photos that do it justice.

Going to a botanical garden is a good idea for me to see some trees in person. I'm always clueless about what to put in the yard, especially considering what could work for my region. If it were entirely up to me, I would create a small forest or experiment, but I have no idea what would be best

1 hour ago, NC_Palms said:

Another recommendation but longleaf pine? I know it’s not a broadleaf evergreen but it’s technically endangered and ecologically important here. 

 

Also slash pine is super fast growing and worth a shot too 

I'm trying to steer clear of pines because I'm already surrounded by them, I think I have a long leaf pine growing in my backyard off to the corner 😂

[amh]

41 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

I'm trying to look over all the trees but its kind of hard to really know without looking at them in person, I have a peacan tree in my yard and I didnt even know they could limit what could grow under them, I thought of bald cypress but I worry they would need a lot of water?

Bald cypress is capable of living outside of swamps and you probably have a fairly shallow water table in your location.  Montezuma cypress, or Taxodium mucronatum could also work.

[Silas_Sancona]

19 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

 

I honestly don't think I've seen any Coffeetrees, Yellowwood, or Loblolly Bay from which I could collect seeds. I love the way the coffee tree and yellowwood look, although I can't say much for Loblolly because Google really doesn't have good photos that do it justice.

Going to a botanical garden is a good idea for me to see some trees in person. I'm always clueless about what to put in the yard, especially considering what could work for my region. If it were entirely up to me, I would create a small forest or experiment, but I have no idea what would be best

 

Best ..well, within the top 5 places on the net to check out -any- plant( or critter )? iNaturalist...  Google searches are trash more often than helpful.  98% of all the pictured observations on iNat will be correct. From there, you can look at tree guides for which sps are native in your area / nearby for additional info regarding hardiness/ growth habit, etc.. ..besides the observations made in your area via iNat. ..

Anyway, here are some iNat links for all 3 natives i mentioned, plus an article about Loblolly Bay from J.C Raulston.

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/117430-Cladrastis-kentukea


https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/81921-Gordonia-lasianthus

https://jcra.ncsu.edu/horticulture/plant-profiles/details.php?ID=85



https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/163451-Gymnocladus-dioicus


Agree 100%.. As good of an idea as pictures on even iNat might give regarding what something might look like, is sometimes tough to envision what a lesser known tree / plant might look like w/ out observing a specimen of it in person in a garden / yard, habitat, etc where you can look over / touch it's leaves / flowers / trunk ..gauge it's height, etc.. always recommend trips to any garden(s) you can get to  to look at stuff.

Was looking through some stuff  J.C. supposedly has in their collection and was surprised to see ..at least.. 2 of our native Oaks.. May not work for what you want, but both sps are pretty interesting, ..if you see them on a visit to the garden in the future. 

They also supposedly have a specimen of Quercus insignis..  Don't think it would work outdoors there ( could be wrong ) ..but, ... you'll want to take a look at that one anyway.. 

[Chester B]

I may get some hate for these choices but they are fast growing and colorful 

Chocolate mimosa

Purple Robe Black Locust

Crimson frost birch

Tricolor beech 

Chitalpa 

Edited January 10, 2024 by Chester B

[amh]

You may find this website useful. Stephen F. Austin State University is located in Nacogdoches Texas, so they get about the same amount of rainfall and are probably only half a zone warmer.

https://dcreechsite.com/

[ZPalms]

20 hours ago, amh said:

Bald cypress is capable of living outside of swamps and you probably have a fairly shallow water table in your location.  Montezuma cypress, or Taxodium mucronatum could also work.

I have a swamp in the back part of my yard that I definitely wanna try and get bald cypress in, but I do like these options and did think of it because the shape of those trees always look great!

 

23 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Best ..well, within the top 5 places on the net to check out -any- plant( or critter )? iNaturalist...  Google searches are trash more often than helpful.  98% of all the pictured observations on iNat will be correct. From there, you can look at tree guides for which sps are native in your area / nearby for additional info regarding hardiness/ growth habit, etc.. ..besides the observations made in your area via iNat. ..

Anyway, here are some iNat links for all 3 natives i mentioned, plus an article about Loblolly Bay from J.C Raulston.

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/117430-Cladrastis-kentukea


https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/81921-Gordonia-lasianthus

https://jcra.ncsu.edu/horticulture/plant-profiles/details.php?ID=85



https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/163451-Gymnocladus-dioicus


Agree 100%.. As good of an idea as pictures on even iNat might give regarding what something might look like, is sometimes tough to envision what a lesser known tree / plant might look like w/ out observing a specimen of it in person in a garden / yard, habitat, etc where you can look over / touch it's leaves / flowers / trunk ..gauge it's height, etc.. always recommend trips to any garden(s) you can get to  to look at stuff.

Was looking through some stuff  J.C. supposedly has in their collection and was surprised to see ..at least.. 2 of our native Oaks.. May not work for what you want, but both sps are pretty interesting, ..if you see them on a visit to the garden in the future. 

They also supposedly have a specimen of Quercus insignis..  Don't think it would work outdoors there ( could be wrong ) ..but, ... you'll want to take a look at that one anyway.. 

Thanks for the links; I looked through them all. I wish people would back up and take full pictures of the trees 😂. I always forget Inaturalist is a good place for photos; I'll definitely have to see some of these trees in person. I'm considering the Kentucky Yellowwood or Kentucky Coffeetree, I like the way they look especially the Kentucky Yellowwood. I'm not 100% against the idea of growing an oak. If only they grew quicker, but I'd be open to getting oaks for another part of the yard or something.

I like the way the loblolly bay tree looks, but the photos don't do it justice. From what I've seen, the tree looks very sparse as it grows, at least from the photos.

15 hours ago, Chester B said:

I may get some hate for these choices but they are fast growing and colorful 

Chocolate mimosa

Purple Robe Black Locust

Crimson frost birch

Tricolor beech 

Chitalpa 

These are some fun options. I think the only one of these that could actually grow in my area would probably be the Chocolate mimosa, which looks awesome. I'm not sure if I should introduce another mimosa species to go invasive all over the place. I did read they are less invasive than the normal one?

I thought of planting mimosa since I do have those in my yard already. It would be so easy for me to make more of them. It's just do I really want that.

6 hours ago, amh said:

You may find this website useful. Stephen F. Austin State University is located in Nacogdoches Texas, so they get about the same amount of rainfall and are probably only half a zone warmer.

https://dcreechsite.com/

Theirs so much to look through, I'll have to keep reading through but the post about C. lanceolata caught my eye because I didn't know their were other types like C. unicaniculata, I really love the soft needles of that tree. I wish I could get my hands on C. unicaniculata but their so rare!

[Calosphace]

Looks like they have sandy more upland conditions in the front yard?

For trees I second Mags and Oaks. Shumard oak is great classic-looking oakleaf oak for the South (native). Can't go wrong with a Sand live oak or Southern live oak. In your zone you could likely grow Aechmea recurvata and Dendrobium moniliforme mounted on them.

For deciduous trees I'm a big fan of Hophornbeam, it is one of the few that has decent fall color where I live and has sturdy strong wood too, one of the strongest in north america.

There is also Acer leucoderme it is similar to the Taiwan trident maple in size, a bit small for a maple, but native. It is found mostly in more neutral soils in drier woods in the wild but is adaptable and is popular as a street tree for that reason.

Once you have a canopy species to its east side you could put native plums and southern crabapple, pawpaw, dogwoods, redbud, etc. To its west hardy forms of bottlebrush e.g. woodlander's hardy could be an exotic pop of color. To the north of the bottlebrush plant evergreen native holly to protect it.

If it were me I would do an even split of good fast-growing trees and then more slow-growing trees, e.g. plant some pecans and oaks (slow) and a native sycamore and tuliptree for fast. I'd probably replace the driveway one with the slow tree and the outskirts one with the fast tree. I'd probably put another large tree on the other side of the driveway too.

[Matthew92]

Lot of people mentioned very good options. One option that would be a real stunner is that Robinia 'purple robe' that Chester mentioned.

Probably the best Fir tree you could grow would be Abies firma (Japanese Fir). Though it is not a fast grower (as are any firs really from what I understand). 

One option I haven't seen mentioned yet are elms. For native ones that are medium sized, there is Cedar elm (Ulmus crassifolia) and Winged elm (Ulmus alata). They would tolerate the soil conditions it appears you have (sandy? typical pineland habitat) better than many other trees which don't grow in that as well.

[Silas_Sancona]

On 1/9/2024 at 10:52 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

Best ..well, within the top 5 places on the net to check out -any- plant( or critter )? iNaturalist...  Google searches are trash more often than helpful.  98% of all the pictured observations on iNat will be correct. From there, you can look at tree guides for which sps are native in your area / nearby for additional info regarding hardiness/ growth habit, etc.. ..besides the observations made in your area via iNat. ..

Anyway, here are some iNat links for all 3 natives i mentioned, plus an article about Loblolly Bay from J.C Raulston.

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/117430-Cladrastis-kentukea


https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/81921-Gordonia-lasianthus

https://jcra.ncsu.edu/horticulture/plant-profiles/details.php?ID=85



https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/163451-Gymnocladus-dioicus


Agree 100%.. As good of an idea as pictures on even iNat might give regarding what something might look like, is sometimes tough to envision what a lesser known tree / plant might look like w/ out observing a specimen of it in person in a garden / yard, habitat, etc where you can look over / touch it's leaves / flowers / trunk ..gauge it's height, etc.. always recommend trips to any garden(s) you can get to  to look at stuff.

Was looking through some stuff  J.C. supposedly has in their collection and was surprised to see ..at least.. 2 of our native Oaks.. May not work for what you want, but both sps are pretty interesting, ..if you see them on a visit to the garden in the future. 

They also supposedly have a specimen of Quercus insignis..  Don't think it would work outdoors there ( could be wrong ) ..but, ... you'll want to take a look at that one anyway.. 

One more " Mexican Oak " worth mentioning which Juniper Level Botanical Gardens is apparently growing..  A " Holy Grail " sp. for a lot of people into the big leaved ( ..but apparently quite hardy ) " Tropical " Oaks from the mountains of Western and Southern Mexico.

https://www.juniperlevelbotanicgarden.org/tarahumara-oak/#

[Matthew92]

Also since you mentioned Fir trees: another conifer that would thrive there (and grow fast for a conifer) is Arizona Cypress (Cupressus arizonica). There are quite a few different cultivars out there. Additionally, many species/cultivars of Podocarpus would also do well and look a little more exotic or tropical even.

Edited January 15, 2024 by Matthew92

[Calosphace]

5 hours ago, Matthew92 said:

Lot of people mentioned very good options. One option that would be a real stunner is that Robinia 'purple robe' that Chester mentioned.

Probably the best Fir tree you could grow would be Abies firma (Japanese Fir). Though it is not a fast grower (as are any firs really from what I understand). 

One option I haven't seen mentioned yet are elms. For native ones that are medium sized, there is Cedar elm (Ulmus crassifolia) and Winged elm (Ulmus alata). They would tolerate the soil conditions it appears you have (sandy? typical pineland habitat) better than many other trees which don't grow in that as well.

Oh I second the Ulmus alata. One of my favorite trees, cant believe I forgot. Really cool bark. It also has a sparser canopy than most so it should not impede grasses much if that is a concern. At work we have a bunch with turf growing beneath without issue.

[SeanK]

On 1/8/2024 at 9:54 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

A few unusual natives:

Kentucky / American Yellowwood

Kentucky CoffeeTree

Franklinia alatamaha  ..Though this one may be tough to find since it is Extinct in the wild.. 

Gordionia lasianthus, Loblolly Bay looks similar but should be easier to find..

Magnolia macrophylla, dealbati, and M. m. ashei


Clethra pringlei  from N.E. Mexico. Woodlanders would grow it..

Magnolia tamaulipana,  Pretty sure it was being grown by a few gardens out there.

Quercus rysophylla, ..Think several others of the big - leaved, Mexican Oaks are grown at J C Raulston ( Arboretum ) also.

Kentucky Coffee Tree is a pest 

[SeanK]

On 1/8/2024 at 7:27 PM, ZPalms said:

I have two Bradford pear trees at the end of my yard, but I'm unsure about which species I could replace them with. I'm open to either native or non-native options. I've been thinking whether I'd prefer something with a tropical appearance, or if I should stick to a native species or try something different, like a fir if any can even grow, or maybe just throwing some palm trees. I'm looking for a tree that grows quickly, reaching a medium to large size quickly.

 

I'd like to consider plants that I can pair with the new tree or grow under it. Since the entrances are on both sides, I've been thinking of something that can look really nice, maybe with ferns growing under the tree or adding a couple more trees to create shade. I'm not entirely sure. I've thought of magnolias, but I'm unsure how aggressive they can be. I've added photo which I only have from google atm if that helps 😅

I've thought maybe of trying

• Betula nigra
• Cunninghamia lanceolata
• Maple of some sorts
• Catalpa, I do have one of these already in the yard

 

Quercus myrsinfolia

[Silas_Sancona]

Just now, SeanK said:

Kentucky Coffee Tree is a pest 

😂 🤣  Not a pest...  At-  All-

Wiki:






Note the " pest " potential in each of these links...

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/ST287


https://www.uky.edu/hort/Kentucky-Coffeetree


https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/plants/gymnocladus-dioicus/


>

[ZPalms]

Lots of options here! I really appreciate that you guys brought up the sandy soil. I should have mentioned earlier that the soil in the whole area is sandy, as far as I know. Any suggestions for trees that thrive in sandy soils would be much appreciated!

I don't really have a problem with messy trees or if grass doesn't grow under them because I dislike grass lawns. The opportunity for shade plants such as ferns and other foliage would be so cool. My family are the ones who tend to complain about things like leaf debris and grass growing. I don't even see how cleaning up leaves is important when they're returning life back to the soil or even serving as free mulch for me.

I've attached a bird's eye view of the driveways and the trees, the image is a bit old and things have changed since then. Bing provides a clearer bird's eye view. Both driveways are visible, and I've circled the Bradford pears in the first image. The Bradford pear in the middle has been gone for a while, leaving an empty spot.

Along the right driveway, there's a line of poorly cared-for crape myrtles that were here when we moved in. They never received any TLC, and I want to work on improving them. Though, I'm not sure how else I could help them. They probably need irrigation, fertilizer, and pruning, but I've also thought about removing them and trying another type of tree, or maybe even palmettos or something else!

As for the tree I put a question mark on, I have no idea what it is. It seems to be a mix of a bush and a tree, with a huge crape myrtle in the mix, if I remember correctly.

I think I do have massive tulip trees in the treeline in the backyard, or at least I think that's what they are. They're monster sizes, especially in height. I've never been close to the trunk, but the trees are huge!

I'm planning to visit the botanical garden when everything starts growing leaves and such, just to see some trees in person. But in the meantime, I'll be researching all the options you all have been recommending! 🤠

Edited January 16, 2024 by ZPalms

[Silas_Sancona]

7 hours ago, ZPalms said:

Lots of options here! I really appreciate that you guys brought up the sandy soil. I should have mentioned earlier that the soil in the whole area is sandy, as far as I know. Any suggestions for trees that thrive in sandy soils would be much appreciated!

I don't really have a problem with messy trees or if grass doesn't grow under them because I dislike grass lawns. The opportunity for shade plants such as ferns and other foliage would be so cool. My family are the ones who tend to complain about things like leaf debris and grass growing. I don't even see how cleaning up leaves is important when they're returning life back to the soil or even serving as free mulch for me.

I've attached a bird's eye view of the driveways and the trees, the image is a bit old and things have changed since then. Bing provides a clearer bird's eye view. Both driveways are visible, and I've circled the Bradford pears in the first image. The Bradford pear in the middle has been gone for a while, leaving an empty spot.

Along the right driveway, there's a line of poorly cared-for crape myrtles that were here when we moved in. They never received any TLC, and I want to work on improving them. Though, I'm not sure how else I could help them. They probably need irrigation, fertilizer, and pruning, but I've also thought about removing them and trying another type of tree, or maybe even palmettos or something else!

As for the tree I put a question mark on, I have no idea what it is. It seems to be a mix of a bush and a tree, with a huge crape myrtle in the mix, if I remember correctly.

I think I do have massive tulip trees in the treeline in the backyard, or at least I think that's what they are. They're monster sizes, especially in height. I've never been close to the trunk, but the trees are huge!

I'm planning to visit the botanical garden when everything starts growing leaves and such, just to see some trees in person. But in the meantime, I'll be researching all the options you all have been recommending! 🤠

So, if you don't mind... i picked apart the bird's eye view, just to show you an idea of what you can do ..since it appears you have quite a bit of space to play with..  Keep in mind, this is a very basic sketch. My point is instead of looking at the whole thing from a standpoint that might be a bit intimidating,  when you divide things up a bit, your " idea(s) " on planning become easier to see / figure out.

May take time, depending on resources, but, ..as long as you aren't planning on jumping ship any time soon,  lots of time to make your " dream " come to life..  Don't rush.. and start from seed if you have to..

Again, this is just a crude " what i'd consider doing / how i might lay things out " kind of thought / sketch. Obviously, you know the actual size of the space you have to work with, and what appeals to your eye / what the rest of your family might accept ..or find common ground on, lol..



Breaking down my chicken scratch.:

Assuming " A " and the dashed white line is your Right side ( in the picture )  property line,  that space, between the light green line / White dashed line = Palms, like Sabal Minor / Saws perhaps / some shorter tree options, perhaps stuff that flowers ..IE: The Clethra / native Magnolias i'd mentioned / " Purple Robe " Locust / ..a Chocolate Mimosa or two ..Or something with interestingly colored foliage that won't seed everywhere.., ..etc


Area " B " ..Front of your property.. Could leave it as - is, or plant groups of Sabal - something, and some other, larger, native " shrub " - type things = whatever native perennials / nice looking, native " bunch " grasses that might appeal to you.. Whatever is planted here should be able to survive on what water nature provides..  Don't want to completely block the view of the property / access to the Telephone pole(s)? sited there ..just break things up / make the view interesting to anyone stopping by / passing by / your neighbors. ( They may eventually want to something similar themselves )


Light Purple " dots"  on the left of the shot:  Depending how much space is there, along that side of your property ( Left side in the picture )  = more Sabal / other palms that might survive there, but won't get huge / take up too much space.. Smaller, slimmer- profiled  trees / larger " shrubs " you might trim a little occasionally might work there too.. 

Yellow thatched areas = Defined Parking area in front of the house / " optional, extra parking directly across the driveway from the house..  Could eventually lay pavers ..or just dump some gravel ..held within a border of rocks or brick edging..

Green squiggly line areas = room for more palms / smaller, attention getting tree / shrub options..  Depending on how much shade is created as canopy is created? ..Another great spot for shade lovers / flowery stuff you / your family might enjoy.. Even if Mom wants a few Roses, haha..

Light Blue = One thought regarding how i might lay out paths through the " main " area..  Actual space may or may not be large enough for the amount of paths i laid out.. 

Each # represents a different planting area / bed.. This helps break up the overall area and lets you imagine creating different areas that contain different groups of plants -over time.  I myself might leave area #2 open, with trees surrounding it ..acting as sort of a " Meadow " you'll be able to look out into from the front of the house.  

Here, you can mix slower growing and faster growing trees ..some of which stay green most / all year, and others that will drop their leaves in winter / add some nice fall color beforehand / flower in the spring / summer..

  "  Orange " X " = ..Maybe a picnic bench / entertaining area for when you / the family have friends / other family over..



Overall, from the view, appears you have a really nice, ..nearly blank slate to create a pretty sweet garden / landscape in the coming years.. 

Hope this helps you envision your idea better..

[ZPalms]

On 1/16/2024 at 12:35 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

So, if you don't mind... i picked apart the bird's eye view, just to show you an idea of what you can do ..since it appears you have quite a bit of space to play with..  Keep in mind, this is a very basic sketch. My point is instead of looking at the whole thing from a standpoint that might be a bit intimidating,  when you divide things up a bit, your " idea(s) " on planning become easier to see / figure out.

May take time, depending on resources, but, ..as long as you aren't planning on jumping ship any time soon,  lots of time to make your " dream " come to life..  Don't rush.. and start from seed if you have to..

Again, this is just a crude " what i'd consider doing / how i might lay things out " kind of thought / sketch. Obviously, you know the actual size of the space you have to work with, and what appeals to your eye / what the rest of your family might accept ..or find common ground on, lol..



Breaking down my chicken scratch.:

Assuming " A " and the dashed white line is your Right side ( in the picture )  property line,  that space, between the light green line / White dashed line = Palms, like Sabal Minor / Saws perhaps / some shorter tree options, perhaps stuff that flowers ..IE: The Clethra / native Magnolias i'd mentioned / " Purple Robe " Locust / ..a Chocolate Mimosa or two ..Or something with interestingly colored foliage that won't seed everywhere.., ..etc


Area " B " ..Front of your property.. Could leave it as - is, or plant groups of Sabal - something, and some other, larger, native " shrub " - type things = whatever native perennials / nice looking, native " bunch " grasses that might appeal to you.. Whatever is planted here should be able to survive on what water nature provides..  Don't want to completely block the view of the property / access to the Telephone pole(s)? sited there ..just break things up / make the view interesting to anyone stopping by / passing by / your neighbors. ( They may eventually want to something similar themselves )


Light Purple " dots"  on the left of the shot:  Depending how much space is there, along that side of your property ( Left side in the picture )  = more Sabal / other palms that might survive there, but won't get huge / take up too much space.. Smaller, slimmer- profiled  trees / larger " shrubs " you might trim a little occasionally might work there too.. 

Yellow thatched areas = Defined Parking area in front of the house / " optional, extra parking directly across the driveway from the house..  Could eventually lay pavers ..or just dump some gravel ..held within a border of rocks or brick edging..

Green squiggly line areas = room for more palms / smaller, attention getting tree / shrub options..  Depending on how much shade is created as canopy is created? ..Another great spot for shade lovers / flowery stuff you / your family might enjoy.. Even if Mom wants a few Roses, haha..

Light Blue = One thought regarding how i might lay out paths through the " main " area..  Actual space may or may not be large enough for the amount of paths i laid out.. 

Each # represents a different planting area / bed.. This helps break up the overall area and lets you imagine creating different areas that contain different groups of plants -over time.  I myself might leave area #2 open, with trees surrounding it ..acting as sort of a " Meadow " you'll be able to look out into from the front of the house.  

Here, you can mix slower growing and faster growing trees ..some of which stay green most / all year, and others that will drop their leaves in winter / add some nice fall color beforehand / flower in the spring / summer..

  "  Orange " X " = ..Maybe a picnic bench / entertaining area for when you / the family have friends / other family over..



Overall, from the view, appears you have a really nice, ..nearly blank slate to create a pretty sweet garden / landscape in the coming years.. 

Hope this helps you envision your idea better..

Oh, wow! 😂 I should have taken a whole screenshot of the entire property because I struggle with deciding what to do with everything. I'm definitely going to use this example. I didn't even think of planting anything on the opposite side next to the treeline or where B is. I could plant Sabal minor there because that's where water runs off the road and into the little ditch.

Areas 2 and 3 might have to be different because they've talked about putting a 3-car garage there, so it would change what can be planted. I think the design would change greatly if I sent another screenshot because their so much more not in view

I'll send another screenshot if you want to help me with the whole yard, and I'll label some of the existing trees to figure out what would work with them.

Edited January 18, 2024 by ZPalms

[Silas_Sancona]

49 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

Oh, wow! 😂 I should have taken a whole screenshot of the entire property because I struggle with deciding what to do with everything. I'm definitely going to use this example. I didn't even think of planting anything on the opposite side next to the treeline or where B is. I could plant Sabal minor there because that's where water runs off the road and into the little ditch.

Areas 2 and 3 might have to be different because they've talked about putting a 3-car garage there, so it would change what can be planted. I think the design would change greatly if I sent another screenshot because their so much more not in view

I'll send another screenshot if you want to help me with the whole yard, and I'll label some of the existing trees to figure out what would work with them.

Noo!, lol ..No garage allowed in that spot haha  ..I'm totally kidding of course..  😄 Can see the appeal of placing a Garage in that area ..though i myself might build it closer to the house ...to the left of where the cars are currently parked.  Designed right, you might even be able to create a covered patio / walkway of sorts between the house / garage.
 

As i mentioned, the scratched out drawing is just one idea ..of many  you can consider when designing that area ..or any other area on your property you want to landscape. 

When i took some landscape certification - related courses years ago, we were taught that when looking at a " blank slate " like this,  think of what you see as a canvas that you can create something neat from..  As you start scratching out ideas, some things may change as you look at the " rough sketch " and say .." Maybe i want to do something different here ..or there.. "   Eventually, you'll decide on something that sticks and go from there when planning out the rest of your landscape over time..  Essentially, play around with the bird's eye shots of your property a bit..

..And yes, feel free to post some shots, blank, and / or with your ideas.. Definitely don't mind offering some input, or  helping you with any trees / other stuff you might be stuck on trying to ID that are growing on your property, which you can use as a base for adding other plant choices from..

You mentioned that the area in front of your property where runoff collects.  Use  knowledge of such variables around your property to their fullest advantage..  Any really dry areas?  Research only things that can handle such conditions..  Shadier?, esp in the afternoons in summer?  Great places for sun sensitive things..   A really dynamic garden will have lots of these micro -level places within it..  It's like walking around in the woods, admiring the trees and finding a rocky outcrop of ledge tucked in those woods  somewhere full of Ferns ..maybe some Orchids ..or something else interesting that is a bit un expected..

A couple things i forgot to mention earlier..

Sometimes the simplest way to gauge how much space you might need to give something is as simple as getting some of those wooden sticks you'd use to mix paint. Stick one in the ground exactly where you'd intend on planting something, and ..using a string tied to the stake, measured out to say 5, 10, or 15ft ( ..or more, for any trees that have really big canopies ) then walk around the stake in a circle. This helps you visualize just how space that mature canopy might occupy, rather than seeing a description online or in a book that reads " ...Can get 30ft wide "  and trying to figure out just how much space a 30 or 40ft circle takes up.  Even if you only standing 15FT out from where the stake is placed, 15ft is half of 30.  Over time, you'll be able to simply look at an area and gauge spacing distances.

Trees bigger than say 20ft in height ..and / or width ( their canopy ), keep them 40 / 50ft  away from your house / any other buildings. Palms are one thing, but, as i'm sure you already know, an Oak or Pine that is 40ft tall  x 30ft wide is a different story when it falls.

Would invest in a Measuring Wheel if / when you can. Not necessary to spend a fortune on one either. Bought one for like 25 or 30 bucks, 20 years ago and it has worked perfectly every time i used it since. There are some where you can attach a can of florescent colored spray paint and mark out stuff too as you're measuring.  Since your family is discussing plans for adding another building, i'm sure you'll have access to one.

For any paths you might create, esp through grassy areas, you can use the same paint mixing sticks to mark out how wide you might want a path, or how long one might be. If digging out the grass might a bit of a challenge within where your path might be,  just keep the grass / weeds mowed / weed wacked as low as possible until it dies off.  You can slowly add in gravel ..or whatever else.. to make the paths look more formal.. over time.

One last bit of advise,  visit the local botanical gardens / any other interesting local garden as often as you're able to, at least once during each season ..just to see how each area that catches your attention looks at various times during a year.  This helps you visualize how your garden might look if / when adding in some of the same / similar plants the Botanical Garden might be growing as well. 

What looks great when lush during the summer, might not look quite as appealing if / or when  dormant in the winter ..or vise versa.. 
 

[Calosphace]

Absolutely with the sandy soil I would stick to native trees + palms for the general backbone, gonna be the most reliable. Hardy exotic palms also can be added but should not be the backbone, again because reliability concerns, sandy soils retain very low nutrient levels and if you dont feel like fertilizing every few months this could be problematic for some palm species. 
IME Pindo palm can get by without that as can the silvery form of European fan palm (this is in north FL, might vary in other areas). You are very correct about the leaves. deciduous trees nearby and oaks could be really good for palms as it will help retain and transfer nutrients,  at home I keep all my leaves since I use them as mulch and I don't fertilize in-ground plants.

As an aside, I would look into Crossvine. Would be really nice on those trees and it isn't nearly as aggressive as trumpet vine Campis radicans. It would really add to a tropical look and is a good semi-evergreen perennial for hummers (same with Red trumpet honeysuckle Lonicera sempervirens. The selection Dan's Everblooming sold by Almost Eden is one of my absolute favorite plants but it is better for a trellis since it is weak twiner that doesn't attach to bark like Crossvine does). Another is Scarlet Calamint/Clinopodium coccineum which is a scrub/sandy soil endemic.

Edited January 18, 2024 by Calosphace

[ZPalms]

So, this is the whole layout, and I've marked some things. I've also included ground-level photos to give you a better idea of what I've done and the changes my family has made since Google and Bing took these photos. The Bing photo is older, and the Google image seems more recent but not as recent.

The red dots represent trees that have been removed, and I circled the Bradford pears again. I tried labeling what I could based on what I think I know. The pink around the pool indicates a potential deck location that I'm wondering if it will ever get added 😂. I'm having to plant away from the pool, anticipating where an imaginary deck will go. The green line shows where I have already planted, which is visible in the photos below.

Under the blankets are Butia, a couple of Washies, Sabal, and bananas. Under the baby pool upside down to the right is the Acoelorrhaphe wrightii. I'm always thinking about whether I want to move the bananas from the area it's in, which is the big thing to the left of the baby pool, as it sits too forward in this area, and I'm still not sure what direction I want to let the pups spread because behind it is the Chamaerops under the burlap and I don't want it to block out things behind it. But I do like if I can get the Acoelorrhaphe wrightii to a decent size, then that walkway would be very jungly walking through bananas and those palms walking from the entrance into the backyard because eventually they want to put a fence to close in the backyard from my neighbor's fence to the house.

I really struggle with how I want to design the yard because I have so much area to fill, but I'm only one person. I rely on seed growing or buying plants here and there, hoping I can eventually propagate them to plant more of them around the yard. I have Sabal causiarum and Sabal mexicana that I want to plant in the backyard somewhere so bad this year, but I'm not sure how to incorporate them since they can get large. I want to make sure the place it's planted looks good and well thought out for future plans because I'd hate to plant one and then need to change something up. Eventually, a greenhouse will get put into the back corner, which I've marked where a bunch of mimosas grow. It can throw me off because I can't picture how the greenhouse will look, but I only know that it will exist in that spot, so it makes it difficult.

Where the forest is on the left side of the pool is interesting because there's so much grass in that area that I would love to fill up with flowers and plants and maybe a tree here and there because there's so much potential for birds and insects and everything in between, including the swamp behind the trees which I would love to incorporate somehow into the 'garden.' If I planted anything palm-related down that little hill, it would only be Trachys, Sabal minor, or Palmetto and Needle because I think, due to the little hill, it might get a tiny bit cooler down there than the backyard or front yard. I like to keep my zone pushes and tropicals in the backyard or things I know that may need more attention.

I need all the help I can get with planning because I spend time here and there thinking about how I could go about things or how I should design a flower bed or improve a section of the yard, but I find it difficult to make sure everything blends, makes sense, and is practical for me.

 

Red = Washingtonia

Blue = Butia

Green = Sabal Palmetto

Orange = Trachycarpus

Yellow = Banana

Purple = Acoelorrhaphe wrightii

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, ZPalms said:

So, this is the whole layout, and I've marked some things. I've also included ground-level photos to give you a better idea of what I've done and the changes my family has made since Google and Bing took these photos. The Bing photo is older, and the Google image seems more recent but not as recent.

The red dots represent trees that have been removed, and I circled the Bradford pears again. I tried labeling what I could based on what I think I know. The pink around the pool indicates a potential deck location that I'm wondering if it will ever get added 😂. I'm having to plant away from the pool, anticipating where an imaginary deck will go. The green line shows where I have already planted, which is visible in the photos below.

Under the blankets are Butia, a couple of Washies, Sabal, and bananas. Under the baby pool upside down to the right is the Acoelorrhaphe wrightii. I'm always thinking about whether I want to move the bananas from the area it's in, which is the big thing to the left of the baby pool, as it sits too forward in this area, and I'm still not sure what direction I want to let the pups spread because behind it is the Chamaerops under the burlap and I don't want it to block out things behind it. But I do like if I can get the Acoelorrhaphe wrightii to a decent size, then that walkway would be very jungly walking through bananas and those palms walking from the entrance into the backyard because eventually they want to put a fence to close in the backyard from my neighbor's fence to the house.

I really struggle with how I want to design the yard because I have so much area to fill, but I'm only one person. I rely on seed growing or buying plants here and there, hoping I can eventually propagate them to plant more of them around the yard. I have Sabal causiarum and Sabal mexicana that I want to plant in the backyard somewhere so bad this year, but I'm not sure how to incorporate them since they can get large. I want to make sure the place it's planted looks good and well thought out for future plans because I'd hate to plant one and then need to change something up. Eventually, a greenhouse will get put into the back corner, which I've marked where a bunch of mimosas grow. It can throw me off because I can't picture how the greenhouse will look, but I only know that it will exist in that spot, so it makes it difficult.

Where the forest is on the left side of the pool is interesting because there's so much grass in that area that I would love to fill up with flowers and plants and maybe a tree here and there because there's so much potential for birds and insects and everything in between, including the swamp behind the trees which I would love to incorporate somehow into the 'garden.' If I planted anything palm-related down that little hill, it would only be Trachys, Sabal minor, or Palmetto and Needle because I think, due to the little hill, it might get a tiny bit cooler down there than the backyard or front yard. I like to keep my zone pushes and tropicals in the backyard or things I know that may need more attention.

I need all the help I can get with planning because I spend time here and there thinking about how I could go about things or how I should design a flower bed or improve a section of the yard, but I find it difficult to make sure everything blends, makes sense, and is practical for me.

 

Red = Washingtonia

Blue = Butia

Green = Sabal Palmetto

Orange = Trachycarpus

Yellow = Banana

Purple = Acoelorrhaphe wrightii

Using the future Deck area / Greenhouse, here's an idea of what you could do / pull ideas from..

Planned deck area = Light Blue..  Building on the bed you're etching out on the right side of the pool ( in the picture ) = Light Green

Darker green would be potential spots for future planting beds ..which sort of enclose the pool / deck area, and around where the Catalpa? Tree is located on the side of the house..  Orange dashed line = Maybe, if you mention the idea, and it sticks, lol.. your family will decide to include an enclosed porch when building out the deck. Could be a nice spot for any tender tropical stuff you might want to grow..  Would also be a good spot for entertaining on rainy days too..


 The biggest thing is determining how much space the deck area will take up.. Will help you when planning out any beds surrounding it.  Note too that i left a couple spots open ..Yes, you could completely surround it, but, more than likely,  you're family will want some access -to -the -yard points from the deck to the yard itself..

Future Greenhouse = White..  Yellow line = a planting bed on the right of the greenhouse, which would include the possible Oak ( Post a few pictures of the leaves when the tree leafs out in the spring )  Could line the fence w / Sabal - somethings,  plus lots of native / interesting flowering things for sure..

Magenta area to the left of the future Greenhouse = More than likely, you're going to want a place where you can put larger plants ..your sort of " designated growing area "  ..Want it next to / as close to  the G.H just in case you might have to bring anything in during a crazy cold spell..

The biggest thing involving the potential bed to the right / growing area on the left will be just how large of a greenhouse you want..  Go as large as is comfortable / affordable. You'll be surprised how quickly you will fill it. Don't want to regret building one that is too small..

Beyond the growing area, over to where the swampy area of the property is = Yellow dashed line, could be more planting areas..

Darker yellow / orange-y line = the swamp area..  As you've seen in other member's posts, you can definitely incorporate the swampy area your property backs up to in your evolving garden / landscape.. If a cool pocket, definitely play it safe ..but don't be afraid to trial slightly tender- er things too.. you might be surprised at what survives.

Blue circled area out front, around where the Pecan is,  another potential planting area.

Is that another house located in the " Shady / Moist ..Ferny " area? Just curious.. Regardless, yes, that sounds like a great area for stuff that likes those conditions ..Somewhat tropical ..like maybe Cannas and hardy Hibiscus, any Ginger- related plants that might survive, even if cut to the ground every year / couple years,  ..and other interesting natives.


As far as the bigger canopied palms like the Sabal sps you mentioned, you can make them the center piece(s) in any beds, with shorter stuff surrounding them..  Or group them in pairs or groups of 3 in the beds surrounding the deck area.

Guess you need to start casually mentioning " When are we gonna build the deck "  every now and again,  just so the rest of the yard can come together a bit faster, haha. 😁

[ZPalms]

38 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Using the future Deck area / Greenhouse, here's an idea of what you could do / pull ideas from..

Planned deck area = Light Blue..  Building on the bed you're etching out on the right side of the pool ( in the picture ) = Light Green

Darker green would be potential spots for future planting beds ..which sort of enclose the pool / deck area, and around where the Catalpa? Tree is located on the side of the house..  Orange dashed line = Maybe, if you mention the idea, and it sticks, lol.. your family will decide to include an enclosed porch when building out the deck. Could be a nice spot for any tender tropical stuff you might want to grow..  Would also be a good spot for entertaining on rainy days too..


 The biggest thing is determining how much space the deck area will take up.. Will help you when planning out any beds surrounding it.  Note too that i left a couple spots open ..Yes, you could completely surround it, but, more than likely,  you're family will want some access -to -the -yard points from the deck to the yard itself..

Future Greenhouse = White..  Yellow line = a planting bed on the right of the greenhouse, which would include the possible Oak ( Post a few pictures of the leaves when the tree leafs out in the spring )  Could line the fence w / Sabal - somethings,  plus lots of native / interesting flowering things for sure..

Magenta area to the left of the future Greenhouse = More than likely, you're going to want a place where you can put larger plants ..your sort of " designated growing area "  ..Want it next to / as close to  the G.H just in case you might have to bring anything in during a crazy cold spell..

The biggest thing involving the potential bed to the right / growing area on the left will be just how large of a greenhouse you want..  Go as large as is comfortable / affordable. You'll be surprised how quickly you will fill it. Don't want to regret building one that is too small..

Beyond the growing area, over to where the swampy area of the property is = Yellow dashed line, could be more planting areas..

Darker yellow / orange-y line = the swamp area..  As you've seen in other member's posts, you can definitely incorporate the swampy area your property backs up to in your evolving garden / landscape.. If a cool pocket, definitely play it safe ..but don't be afraid to trial slightly tender- er things too.. you might be surprised at what survives.

Blue circled area out front, around where the Pecan is,  another potential planting area.

Is that another house located in the " Shady / Moist ..Ferny " area? Just curious.. Regardless, yes, that sounds like a great area for stuff that likes those conditions ..Somewhat tropical ..like maybe Cannas and hardy Hibiscus, any Ginger- related plants that might survive, even if cut to the ground every year / couple years,  ..and other interesting natives.


As far as the bigger canopied palms like the Sabal sps you mentioned, you can make them the center piece(s) in any beds, with shorter stuff surrounding them..  Or group them in pairs or groups of 3 in the beds surrounding the deck area.

Guess you need to start casually mentioning " When are we gonna build the deck "  every now and again,  just so the rest of the yard can come together a bit faster, haha. 😁

I'm trying to follow along but Is their suppose to be a visual because Im so confused by the colors you mention 😂

Edited January 22, 2024 by ZPalms

[Silas_Sancona]

1 minute ago, ZPalms said:

I'm trying to follow along but Is their suppose to be a visual because Im so confused by the colors you mention 😂

🤦‍♂️🙃  ....of course i forgot to include the sketch, 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Anyway....

[ZPalms]

2 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Using the future Deck area / Greenhouse, here's an idea of what you could do / pull ideas from..

Planned deck area = Light Blue..  Building on the bed you're etching out on the right side of the pool ( in the picture ) = Light Green

Darker green would be potential spots for future planting beds ..which sort of enclose the pool / deck area, and around where the Catalpa? Tree is located on the side of the house..  Orange dashed line = Maybe, if you mention the idea, and it sticks, lol.. your family will decide to include an enclosed porch when building out the deck. Could be a nice spot for any tender tropical stuff you might want to grow..  Would also be a good spot for entertaining on rainy days too..


 The biggest thing is determining how much space the deck area will take up.. Will help you when planning out any beds surrounding it.  Note too that i left a couple spots open ..Yes, you could completely surround it, but, more than likely,  you're family will want some access -to -the -yard points from the deck to the yard itself..

Future Greenhouse = White..  Yellow line = a planting bed on the right of the greenhouse, which would include the possible Oak ( Post a few pictures of the leaves when the tree leafs out in the spring )  Could line the fence w / Sabal - somethings,  plus lots of native / interesting flowering things for sure..

Magenta area to the left of the future Greenhouse = More than likely, you're going to want a place where you can put larger plants ..your sort of " designated growing area "  ..Want it next to / as close to  the G.H just in case you might have to bring anything in during a crazy cold spell..

The biggest thing involving the potential bed to the right / growing area on the left will be just how large of a greenhouse you want..  Go as large as is comfortable / affordable. You'll be surprised how quickly you will fill it. Don't want to regret building one that is too small..

Beyond the growing area, over to where the swampy area of the property is = Yellow dashed line, could be more planting areas..

Darker yellow / orange-y line = the swamp area..  As you've seen in other member's posts, you can definitely incorporate the swampy area your property backs up to in your evolving garden / landscape.. If a cool pocket, definitely play it safe ..but don't be afraid to trial slightly tender- er things too.. you might be surprised at what survives.

Blue circled area out front, around where the Pecan is,  another potential planting area.

Is that another house located in the " Shady / Moist ..Ferny " area? Just curious.. Regardless, yes, that sounds like a great area for stuff that likes those conditions ..Somewhat tropical ..like maybe Cannas and hardy Hibiscus, any Ginger- related plants that might survive, even if cut to the ground every year / couple years,  ..and other interesting natives.


As far as the bigger canopied palms like the Sabal sps you mentioned, you can make them the center piece(s) in any beds, with shorter stuff surrounding them..  Or group them in pairs or groups of 3 in the beds surrounding the deck area.

Guess you need to start casually mentioning " When are we gonna build the deck "  every now and again,  just so the rest of the yard can come together a bit faster, haha. 😁

I hadn't considered lining the fence in yellow with sabals because of the time it would take to make a noticeable difference. I like the idea, but am I ready to make that commitment? 😂 Since I have 3 mexicanas, I really want to ensure I can keep them in the same bed. I do like the idea of planting 2 on the right side of the greenhouse in that yellow flowerbed and maybe placing one in the pink on the left. I really need to know the type of tree in the yellow before making a final choice because I don't want any sabals to be shaded out.

When it comes to the greenhouse, we've been considering the High Sidewall Kits from Growers Solution because I want to store tall plants along with potted plants and an indoor garden. I won't be skimping out on a small one. 😂 My choice could change depending on reviews and other factors because I want one that is both tall and wide enough to fit the space.

For the deck, I have a general idea of what it's supposed to look like, and it will connect to the screen porch. You won't even have to step foot on the grass because the entire back part of the house will be attached to a deck. I need to ask again to refresh my memory so I can fill in beds around at least where I can. 🤠

The shady area where that house is located is a garage. We don't do much with it except store some things because it's swamp down there and mildew-smelling, not an ideal place to build a shed or garage. That's why they want to put a 3-car garage in the field part, as the current place is just a mess. Besides that, cannas and hibiscus come back here even without protection. I have 3 bulbs for cannas, which I got a year or two ago. I'm not sure if they will still grow because I didn't get a chance to plant them, and I have a dormant hibiscus.

I didn't even show the really cool hill in the front yard that slopes down into the shady area. It's like a predefined flower bed already. It probably was at one point, but I think it could make a comeback if I cleared it up and planted it with some neat things. Also, funny enough, where the pecan tree is, used to be a flower bed at one point in that exact spot, and we still find weed barrier all the time...

I'm unsure about planting on the border of the forest because of deer and other animals, but also the lack of control in the forest. The forest floor needs major cleaning because it's messy and weedy, and it would take a long time for me to get that done with just my hands. 😂 I'd go out every day and find a new missing transplant. I do think down in the swampy areas would be great places for sabal minor and palmetto. That's prime sabal real estate! 😍

This gives me some idea of what I want to do, and I think starting in the yellow spot and getting the ground prepped and stuff is a great place for me to start! And chop those Bradford pears once I can get to a nursery and botanical garden to view some trees to make a final decision! apperciate the visual! 🤠

I do have this photo from a tik tok I took from the shady area when it was summer, It's pretty in there when the deer flies aren't trying to bite you 😂

Edited January 22, 2024 by ZPalms

[Silas_Sancona]

10 hours ago, ZPalms said:

I hadn't considered lining the fence in yellow with sabals because of the time it would take to make a noticeable difference. I like the idea, but am I ready to make that commitment? 😂 Since I have 3 mexicanas, I really want to ensure I can keep them in the same bed. I do like the idea of planting 2 on the right side of the greenhouse in that yellow flowerbed and maybe placing one in the pink on the left. I really need to know the type of tree in the yellow before making a final choice because I don't want any sabals to be shaded out.

When it comes to the greenhouse, we've been considering the High Sidewall Kits from Growers Solution because I want to store tall plants along with potted plants and an indoor garden. I won't be skimping out on a small one. 😂 My choice could change depending on reviews and other factors because I want one that is both tall and wide enough to fit the space.

For the deck, I have a general idea of what it's supposed to look like, and it will connect to the screen porch. You won't even have to step foot on the grass because the entire back part of the house will be attached to a deck. I need to ask again to refresh my memory so I can fill in beds around at least where I can. 🤠

The shady area where that house is located is a garage. We don't do much with it except store some things because it's swamp down there and mildew-smelling, not an ideal place to build a shed or garage. That's why they want to put a 3-car garage in the field part, as the current place is just a mess. Besides that, cannas and hibiscus come back here even without protection. I have 3 bulbs for cannas, which I got a year or two ago. I'm not sure if they will still grow because I didn't get a chance to plant them, and I have a dormant hibiscus.

I didn't even show the really cool hill in the front yard that slopes down into the shady area. It's like a predefined flower bed already. It probably was at one point, but I think it could make a comeback if I cleared it up and planted it with some neat things. Also, funny enough, where the pecan tree is, used to be a flower bed at one point in that exact spot, and we still find weed barrier all the time...

I'm unsure about planting on the border of the forest because of deer and other animals, but also the lack of control in the forest. The forest floor needs major cleaning because it's messy and weedy, and it would take a long time for me to get that done with just my hands. 😂 I'd go out every day and find a new missing transplant. I do think down in the swampy areas would be great places for sabal minor and palmetto. That's prime sabal real estate! 😍

This gives me some idea of what I want to do, and I think starting in the yellow spot and getting the ground prepped and stuff is a great place for me to start! And chop those Bradford pears once I can get to a nursery and botanical garden to view some trees to make a final decision! apperciate the visual! 🤠

I do have this photo from a tik tok I took from the shady area when it was summer, It's pretty in there when the deer flies aren't trying to bite you 😂

..Sounds like you're on the right track..  Can see big things for the shade area pictured.. Is your family keeping the Garage in that area once the one out front is built? -just curious..

Good that you're family is on board w/ the greenhouse ..and that you're looking at the bigger picture, size / space -wise rather than  going too small and ending up seeing that you'll  need more space later.

As for the bed ( yellow ) to the right ..along you / your neighbor's property line,  ..Even if you opt for something " common " ..say some regular 'ol Palmettos, rather planting than the mexicanas / other more " unique " species you are / may end up growing there,  adding ..how ever many along that fence line will define that area.. Obviously, w/ the tree there, you'll have to use it as your " anchor " ..which will determine how many palms will fit in there ..and not look overcrowded / completely take away from the tree itself. ..Unless you decide to take the tree out.. Not sure would, unless it were something like the Mimosas..

From there, you'll be able to see how the plant layers " step down " ..from the tallest things along the fence line, to the shortest stuff placed at the front of that bed..

Out of curiosity, the planned fence for separating the front from the back yard ..Is it going to run " corner to corner " ..AKA: in a straight line from the corner on that side of the house, to the corner of you / your neighbor's fence  ..or be more " L " shaped?

Could definitely place a pair / or trio of the Mexicanas on either side of the front of the Greenhouse as a defining,  statement piece.. Or use them in the beds closer to the Deck / Pool area.. 

Another trick you can use when thinking out your landscape is simply standing ..near the pool for instance, and envisioning how it would look w / groups of taller palms, etc surrounding it.. Being that will be a high use / entertainment area, that is where i myself would place the most interesting / uncommon stuff  that will provide the most " tropical " look ..and garner extra  interest from anyone visiting..  In the landscape courses i'd taken, such high value locations on a property were often referred to as " priority " areas..

In areas where Deer might be an issue, you can enclose any high value seedlings / vulnerable smaller- sized plants in wire cloth until they're old enough to withstand browsing. ..Chicken Wire could work too, but the bigger holes would allow entry of browsing Rodents like Rats / Mice, Squirrels, or Voles that could eat small stuff too.  Wire cloth will generally have smaller holes, so it will help keep the furry bastards from getting in better.... 

Going to play around w/ a couple simplified, rough sketches for a couple zoomed in spots on paper then post those thoughts later.. 

[Silas_Sancona]

4 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Going to play around w/ a couple simplified, rough sketches for a couple zoomed in spots on paper then post those thoughts later.. 

Alrighty.. Here are a few chicken scratches i drew up.. Nothin too special and as you see, definitely not to scale.., lol.. The idea w/ both is to show you the thoughts i'd laid out in the last post..

Greenhouse area / Potential planting area to it's right:





As you can see ( Hopefully you can read my writing ) i laid out the idea regarding lining the property fence to the right of your future greenhouse w/ taller palms, and also included adding some shorter options like Sabal minor / Saw Palmettos.  The Oak?? is your anchor to which you can determine how many palms might fit in the space ..without taking up all the area..

Also included the idea of placing a double or trio of palms on either side of the greenhouse..

Obviously, without seeing the space in person, hard to say how much actual space you have / may have once the greenhouse goes in..  adjust this idea as needed, ..if interesting at all..

With the " Dedicated growing area " can be as large ..or small... of a space as you might need. Keep in mind that a bunch of 5 gal ..or 15gal plants you might grow out ..For you, or to share / sell, will take up a lot of space..

Planting bed along that part of the property line that goes out toward the swampy area  can be adjusted accordingly, ..if you decide to put one in over there at all. Maybe that's where the family decides to grow veggies, ..unless you already have a different area on the property for that.

As far as the Fence.. Laid out what i'd mentioned regarding how it might be constructed " L " represents the " L -shaped orientation, vs. the " corner to corner " that goes straight from the edge of the house, to where the property fence is.. ( As you'll see, is labeled #1 and #2 in the next shot ..of the pool / future deck area.

As you plan things out, now and in the future,  definitely get yourself some Graph paper and at least a couple good erasers, lol..  Don't be afraid of sketching out an idea, only to change it several times, ..and recycle a lot of paper, haha.  Each square on paper can = a sq. foot, or more.. and you can use a measuring wheel to calculate distances, then mark out on the paper..

Yes, i know some folks use computer generated layouts.. Which you can do as well, but, i've always done it on paper ( Hate sitting in front of a computer doing landscape layouts, lol )  ..Perhaps i'm just old skool, haha.. No worries. My basic, chicken scratch drawings have worked for what projects i've done, inc. re-landscaping a Dance studio my Landlord's wife owns / operates.

Anyway...


Pool / Potential Future Deck area:





Hopefully this will help you visualize how you'd site any bigger / taller palms that would frame the new deck.  Note that i left breaks in the beds ..One between the existing bed ..the one you're working on, and another break between the " new " bed surrounding that end of the deck, and a possible new bed next to that side of the house.. The breaks in the beds represent access points to the overall yard. Obviously, you don't have to have such access if you don't want any in those spots.

I added paths to the bed you're working on, but ..as with everything else in any of the sketches, you can adjust to where they actually are, since it's hard to tell where you'd envisioned them without seeing the yard in person...

Potential fence / thoughts regarding how it might be constructed is included too. #1 is the " L " shape.  #2 is the " corner to corner " option.. .. depending how your family was thinking of constructing it..  L shape would likely be the obvious choice but might cut into the planting area you're working on, ..depending on mow far apart a fence would be from that area..


As mentioned, Simple, Rough, and not to scale ..but hopefully both of these sketches will help provide ideas that you can adjust to fit how you want things to look,  and go forward from. As you mention, it's sometimes hard to envision a landscape ..and can be overwhelming when looking at a good sized area that has no obvious layout to work off.. This is why i wanted to offer you some ideas to play around with..

Some helpful insight from anyone willing to offer up any,  and seeing how things are laid out when you get to visit gardens will help you see everything come together in your own garden..

[ZPalms]

Oh, this is fantastic! It really gives me some ideas. It sucks I can't get some fully grown palmettos put in 😂, but I love the vision of what palmettos could look like near the fence. I also like the idea of mixing each palmetto with Sabal minor or saw palmetto! I keep forgetting I already have mexicana in my inventory that I could use 😂.

I do have a couple of Chamaerops in pots that would probably look awesome near the greenhouse. If not there, then in the beds in general. I think the dedicated growing area is a great place because it's against a treeline, so it'll have full sun until midday in the summer, and most plants in that spot will have shade to relax afterward.

I forgot to mention that the garage in the shady area will be staying even after they put up the new garage, assuming they still want to do that anyway. The garage down in the swamp is nice if it was cleaned up and repaired, but it's always very moist down there and not a great place to hang out inside the building I mean unless I put some effort into making it a nice place to walk through.

he new part of the fence will form an L shape on the outside. It won't cut through my existing plants and will keep the "oak" area open. The red represents the fence, and the blue are the gates into the backyard. There will be a smaller door next to the house, with a larger door for cars to access the backyard if needed.

I like the idea of putting beds near the forest, and I can kind of imagine it, but I'd have to do some heavy planning around what I could and should plant in those spots. I'd have to really use large plants in that area. I'm just afraid of buying plants for them to get eaten immediately, which probably wouldn't be an issue for trachycarpus, but bananas might be a yummy snack for the forest residents.

This does make me think will animals try to snack on my plants in the growing area? I might have to move it to the other side because there's a lot of space in that corner, and the area behind the greenhouse might also get fenced in.

Thinking about the taller palms, I wish I could plant more washingtonia with confidence because having such a fast growing palm tree would help me get to stages quicker than sabals could from seed and I think any washies that I grow in the future should probably come from the tree here in town, the ones I currently have in the ground came from a washie in texas that survived the palmageton so fingers crossed on those!

I do need to figure out what I'm going to plant in the big empty space behind the pool. I thought of putting Sabal causiarum in a freestanding bed, planting them side by side to break up some of that grassy area but Im not sure yet.

I think I'm going to start preparing area 1#. Eventually, I'll take progress photos of clearing it up because I know for sure planting area 1# is a great place to start and will give me some quick changes to start plugging each section of the backyard. I really appreciate the drawings because I will be looking to them for inspiration.

I did take a couple more photos of the areas I really didn't get good photos of which are of the hill that goes down into the swamp and a better photo of where the greenhouse will go, I should take a good photo of the area around the catalpa

Edited January 24, 2024 by ZPalms

[Silas_Sancona]

On 1/24/2024 at 3:39 AM, ZPalms said:

Oh, this is fantastic! It really gives me some ideas. It sucks I can't get some fully grown palmettos put in 😂, but I love the vision of what palmettos could look like near the fence. I also like the idea of mixing each palmetto with Sabal minor or saw palmetto! I keep forgetting I already have mexicana in my inventory that I could use 😂.

I do have a couple of Chamaerops in pots that would probably look awesome near the greenhouse. If not there, then in the beds in general. I think the dedicated growing area is a great place because it's against a treeline, so it'll have full sun until midday in the summer, and most plants in that spot will have shade to relax afterward.

I forgot to mention that the garage in the shady area will be staying even after they put up the new garage, assuming they still want to do that anyway. The garage down in the swamp is nice if it was cleaned up and repaired, but it's always very moist down there and not a great place to hang out inside the building I mean unless I put some effort into making it a nice place to walk through.

he new part of the fence will form an L shape on the outside. It won't cut through my existing plants and will keep the "oak" area open. The red represents the fence, and the blue are the gates into the backyard. There will be a smaller door next to the house, with a larger door for cars to access the backyard if needed.

I like the idea of putting beds near the forest, and I can kind of imagine it, but I'd have to do some heavy planning around what I could and should plant in those spots. I'd have to really use large plants in that area. I'm just afraid of buying plants for them to get eaten immediately, which probably wouldn't be an issue for trachycarpus, but bananas might be a yummy snack for the forest residents.

This does make me think will animals try to snack on my plants in the growing area? I might have to move it to the other side because there's a lot of space in that corner, and the area behind the greenhouse might also get fenced in.

Thinking about the taller palms, I wish I could plant more washingtonia with confidence because having such a fast growing palm tree would help me get to stages quicker than sabals could from seed and I think any washies that I grow in the future should probably come from the tree here in town, the ones I currently have in the ground came from a washie in texas that survived the palmageton so fingers crossed on those!

I do need to figure out what I'm going to plant in the big empty space behind the pool. I thought of putting Sabal causiarum in a freestanding bed, planting them side by side to break up some of that grassy area but Im not sure yet.

I think I'm going to start preparing area 1#. Eventually, I'll take progress photos of clearing it up because I know for sure planting area 1# is a great place to start and will give me some quick changes to start plugging each section of the backyard. I really appreciate the drawings because I will be looking to them for inspiration.

I did take a couple more photos of the areas I really didn't get good photos of which are of the hill that goes down into the swamp and a better photo of where the greenhouse will go, I should take a good photo of the area around the catalpa

Thinking on some of the images that past couple days.. Can see the shade area near the " old " ( ..since you may be constructing something more functional in the future )  being a great spot for big leaved things ..and flowery stuff that likes a shadier / moister environment..   Small-ish  trees like Sweetbay, Magnolia macrophylla ..and  M. m. ashei, ..maybe The Clethra  i'd mentioned..  Some other, shrubbier Clethra sps native out there too..  All have extremely fragrant flowers..

Remove any of the trees like weaker looking Tulip trees, maybe replace with a couple Live oaks.. Would definitely provide overhead frost protection in winter.

Other stuff like native Asarums,  any Big-leaved Milkweeds that occur in your area,  native ..and hardy, ...but tropical looking Hibiscus ( Hibiscus moscheutos,  laevis,  mutibilis,  lasiocarpos,  coccineus  ) and Salt Marsh Mallow,  Kosteletzkya pentacarpos.. Native Senna sps ( S. maralandica, hebecarpa, and obtusifolia ) Phlox divaricata, ..other native Phlox sps..  Lobelia siphilitica,  and L. cardinalis..  Not sure if it will grow there but Lobelia laxiflora, a neat, orange - flowered sp. from Mexico,  could work in that area too..

..and other tropical - looking stuff like Cannas, hardy Gingers like Hedychium  and Alpinia  sps ..possibly a few Zingiber, Curcuma,  and/or Costus sps. which can return from the roots, like Bananas and/or Cannas.  ...Alo and Colo-casias,  Shade loving, small-ish palms like groups of Chamaedorea radicalis ..and / or microspadix,  plus maybe a couple groups of Sabal minor  scattered about that area.

Bulbs like Crinum ( Native and cultivars ), Lycoris ( Hurricane Lilies ) Rain Lilies ( Zephyranthes ), and Hymenocalis could do well there too.. I don't know if they'll grow there but Sprecklia would be a pretty cool addition if they survive. 

You mentioned Ferns growing there.. Once it warms up, would be cool to see a few shots of them ..just to see which sp. it / they might be.. Usually, where ferns grow, at least back east, such areas can also be a good spot for plants like Orchids..  Think they're only restricted to tropical areas?  ..You likely have a few native sps hiding somewhere on your property ..or nearby.. Some other, really neat species from other areas Plant Delights cultivates that might be interesting to take a look at. 

The post that is in some of the shots, in front of that area? ..part of a fence, or ??..  If not being used for anything, you could eventually put a nest box for Bluebirds or an Owl atop it.

It appears Resurrection Fern may grow in your area..  ..If you find / come across pieces of it while wandering around out in the woods, might be neat to try and get them to grow / establish themselves on some of the trees in that area..

Didn't even think about the " L " orientation of the fence going the opposite way of what i'd thought / drew in the sketch.. Makes more sense than the other way, lol.

If concerned about critters getting into plants placed in a growing area, you could place a motion activated sprinkler there..

Thing about keeping the potential growing space ( if you can ) located closer to where your greenhouse may be is ease of moving stuff in / out during freak cold spells.. Definitely don't want to spend a few hours lugging cart loads of 5 - 15 gal pots filled with dirt / plants to the greenhouse from across the property,  lol.

 

[ZPalms]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Thinking on some of the images that past couple days.. Can see the shade area near the " old " ( ..since you may be constructing something more functional in the future )  being a great spot for big leaved things ..and flowery stuff that likes a shadier / moister environment..   Small-ish  trees like Sweetbay, Magnolia macrophylla ..and  M. m. ashei, ..maybe The Clethra  i'd mentioned..  Some other, shrubbier Clethra sps native out there too..  All have extremely fragrant flowers..

Remove any of the trees like weaker looking Tulip trees, maybe replace with a couple Live oaks.. Would definitely provide overhead frost protection in winter.

Other stuff like native Asarums,  any Big-leaved Milkweeds that occur in your area,  native ..and hardy, ...but tropical looking Hibiscus ( Hibiscus moscheutos,  laevis,  mutibilis,  lasiocarpos,  coccineus  ) and Salt Marsh Mallow,  Kosteletzkya pentacarpos.. Native Senna sps ( S. maralandica, hebecarpa, and obtusifolia ) Phlox divaricata, ..other native Phlox sps..  Lobelia siphilitica,  and L. cardinalis..  Not sure if it will grow there but Lobelia laxiflora, a neat, orange - flowered sp. from Mexico,  could work in that area too..

..and other tropical - looking stuff like Cannas, hardy Gingers like Hedychium  and Alpinia  sps ..possibly a few Zingiber, Curcuma,  and/or Costus sps. which can return from the roots, like Bananas and/or Cannas.  ...Alo and Colo-casias,  Shade loving, small-ish palms like groups of Chamaedorea radicalis ..and / or microspadix,  plus maybe a couple groups of Sabal minor  scattered about that area.

Bulbs like Crinum ( Native and cultivars ), Lycoris ( Hurricane Lilies ) Rain Lilies ( Zephyranthes ), and Hymenocalis could do well there too.. I don't know if they'll grow there but Sprecklia would be a pretty cool addition if they survive. 

You mentioned Ferns growing there.. Once it warms up, would be cool to see a few shots of them ..just to see which sp. it / they might be.. Usually, where ferns grow, at least back east, such areas can also be a good spot for plants like Orchids..  Think they're only restricted to tropical areas?  ..You likely have a few native sps hiding somewhere on your property ..or nearby.. Some other, really neat species from other areas Plant Delights cultivates that might be interesting to take a look at. 

The post that is in some of the shots, in front of that area? ..part of a fence, or ??..  If not being used for anything, you could eventually put a nest box for Bluebirds or an Owl atop it.

It appears Resurrection Fern may grow in your area..  ..If you find / come across pieces of it while wandering around out in the woods, might be neat to try and get them to grow / establish themselves on some of the trees in that area..

Didn't even think about the " L " orientation of the fence going the opposite way of what i'd thought / drew in the sketch.. Makes more sense than the other way, lol.

If concerned about critters getting into plants placed in a growing area, you could place a motion activated sprinkler there..

Thing about keeping the potential growing space ( if you can ) located closer to where your greenhouse may be is ease of moving stuff in / out during freak cold spells.. Definitely don't want to spend a few hours lugging cart loads of 5 - 15 gal pots filled with dirt / plants to the greenhouse from across the property,  lol.

 

Oh, I really like all these plant ideas! I can envision how these plants could add a lot to the understory, making it more colorful and interesting. In the summer, the area does get VERY dense with ferns and different plants. There are already a few pockets where sweetbay is naturally growing, I think. I'll have to take a photo of them to be sure, but they keep trying to grow back because my step dad keeps cutting them — they seem have something against magnolias, lol.

Funny enough, I just received a magazine from Plant Delights Nursery to see their latest stuff, and the Amorphophallus x konbus doesn't even look like it belongs, like that plant looks so tropical and doesn't seem real you can grow it in the ground in 6a to 10b. 

I'm sure there are many plants I don't see and miss because I haven't taken a close look. I'm scared to walk through the plants because of the fear of ticks and other small bugs, but I try not to step in the areas where the ferns grow to not compact the ground.

One of my favorite ferns that returns every year is the cinnamon fern. I've been trying to understand how it spores so I can multiply it. I would love to put some in pots by the front door because of how showy they are! I do have some pictures of that area I took from last summer but sadly I didn't take pictures specifically of the ferns except for the cinnamon ones so I will have to take photos of the ferns when they start popping up. I'll attach those below, don't mind the mess. It's my step dads mess

I looked up the Magnolia macrophylla and saw the photos and videos and I verbally said omg out loud because that is such a beautiful tree that I didn't know existed, I'd really consider replacing the bradford pears with this species, I think the only issue is, is probably the wind so the leaves would get all tore up so maybe it wouldnt be the best option but I love the shape of it and everything. one thing I did come across is that bees seem to die in the flower of this tree? I did also look up the ashei which I'm assuming is the same thing but a sparser tree?

I'll try and 3d scan the area when I get a chance so you can free roam and look around that area, I also did a little rough 3d scan of flower bed 1# so you can kinda see it in 3d compared to a photo, It's the best I could do taking it since I can't get above angles but its really neat, definitely recommend opening this on a computer! Flower bed 1#

I was so confused about the post you were talking about and had to look back in the photos because I didn't even realize I took a photo of the post, I never considered putting a bird box or something there, I think that would be such a cool idea because I've already had the idea in my head I want to do more things for the birds, I do think that post used to have a bell on it for some reason I think, I don't really understand the idea of going over there to ring a bell for no reason 😂

I will eventually be adding spanish moss down here, @BeyondTheGarden collected some a while back and got a bit for me and I think it would be very fitting, I think a live oak would be a great addition down and you can't go wrong with a live oak and spanish moss!

I think when I make my way close to the edge of the forest and down the hill, if I make it that far, then I'll put chicken wire fencing up to keep things in the woods for a while. so plants and palms can establish, and hopefully, my new plantings won't get eaten up 😂.

[Silas_Sancona]

9 hours ago, ZPalms said:

Oh, I really like all these plant ideas! I can envision how these plants could add a lot to the understory, making it more colorful and interesting. In the summer, the area does get VERY dense with ferns and different plants. There are already a few pockets where sweetbay is naturally growing, I think. I'll have to take a photo of them to be sure, but they keep trying to grow back because my step dad keeps cutting them — they seem have something against magnolias, lol.

Funny enough, I just received a magazine from Plant Delights Nursery to see their latest stuff, and the Amorphophallus x konbus doesn't even look like it belongs, like that plant looks so tropical and doesn't seem real you can grow it in the ground in 6a to 10b. 

I'm sure there are many plants I don't see and miss because I haven't taken a close look. I'm scared to walk through the plants because of the fear of ticks and other small bugs, but I try not to step in the areas where the ferns grow to not compact the ground.

One of my favorite ferns that returns every year is the cinnamon fern. I've been trying to understand how it spores so I can multiply it. I would love to put some in pots by the front door because of how showy they are! I do have some pictures of that area I took from last summer but sadly I didn't take pictures specifically of the ferns except for the cinnamon ones so I will have to take photos of the ferns when they start popping up. I'll attach those below, don't mind the mess. It's my step dads mess

I looked up the Magnolia macrophylla and saw the photos and videos and I verbally said omg out loud because that is such a beautiful tree that I didn't know existed, I'd really consider replacing the bradford pears with this species, I think the only issue is, is probably the wind so the leaves would get all tore up so maybe it wouldnt be the best option but I love the shape of it and everything. one thing I did come across is that bees seem to die in the flower of this tree? I did also look up the ashei which I'm assuming is the same thing but a sparser tree?

I'll try and 3d scan the area when I get a chance so you can free roam and look around that area, I also did a little rough 3d scan of flower bed 1# so you can kinda see it in 3d compared to a photo, It's the best I could do taking it since I can't get above angles but its really neat, definitely recommend opening this on a computer! Flower bed 1#

I was so confused about the post you were talking about and had to look back in the photos because I didn't even realize I took a photo of the post, I never considered putting a bird box or something there, I think that would be such a cool idea because I've already had the idea in my head I want to do more things for the birds, I do think that post used to have a bell on it for some reason I think, I don't really understand the idea of going over there to ring a bell for no reason 😂

I will eventually be adding spanish moss down here, @BeyondTheGarden collected some a while back and got a bit for me and I think it would be very fitting, I think a live oak would be a great addition down and you can't go wrong with a live oak and spanish moss!

I think when I make my way close to the edge of the forest and down the hill, if I make it that far, then I'll put chicken wire fencing up to keep things in the woods for a while. so plants and palms can establish, and hopefully, my new plantings won't get eaten up 😂.

the 3D view of the 1st bed..  Is the Greenhouse going to be set where the frame is currently sitting, our further in the back? ..Just curious..  Can see what you mean about that section of fence needing to be fixed / re-done..  regardless, yea, that should be a great spot to start from and some taller Sabal ..and/ or Washingtonia lining the back, once the fence is up, whoud hellp frame everything..

That shade area by the old garage definitely has a head start as far as what is growing there. Looks like there are two levels? ( the blue- edged " slope " in the picture )..a slightly higher area in this shot?  ..If so, can see that being a good starting point for working in that area.. Since ...from appearance, it would seem that area might get more afternoon sun,  maybe put plants that can handle a little more sun at that time of day there..



Agree,  Some Cinnamon ferns ..and perhaps a Cycad w/ bluer- toned foliage, like Dioon edule  would look nice in a bed up closer to the front of the house. Yea, you could throw in some Sago palms, but why not go more unique if looking at including some Cycads anywhere in your garden? ..even if you have to start small ( since they'll be more affordable ) 

Can work in other stuff like Cannas, any of the Hibiscus sps i mentioned ..and something " standard " ..like a couple Roses, if that is something your mom enjoys..  Being right next to the entrance of the house, you can go a touch more formal / some " typical " landscape plant options there ..but also add interesting, not so typical elements ..like the Cinnamon Ferns / Dioon.. That will demonstrate to people visiting " Yea, there are some standard things here ..but, overall, this is a garden full of unusual things too "  ..If that makes sense..

As far as starting them? ..I've heard they can be started from pieces of Rhizomes ..and Spores.. which, ..i'll be honest,  isn't hard,  but, takes patience. Most Ferns can take a year or two to go from looking like fuzzy " moss ", to plants that look like actual Ferns when started from spores.. They also need really consistent conditions while developing, so, you may wait until the greenhouse is up to try germinating them ..or any other Fern.. from spores.

Trying to figure out what the other Fern in the shots is but not settled on an ID.  Regardless, a couple links you can pull information from regarding ID'ing any native to your area, and Propagation.. 

As mentioned, starting them from spores isn't impossible, but, just gotta be patient..

https://wcbotanicalclub.org/ferns/

https://www.amerfernsoc.org/fromspores


Regarding the Magnolias, .. Can't say how accurate / not so accurate the info. is regarding nectar toxicity.. If they were deadly to -any- Bee species, they'd likely have died out long ago due to not being able to produce seed.. More than likely,  it is non - native Honey bees that can be effected -if true- 

We have a few native plants here, and in CA where the nectar produced is toxic to Honey Bees.. yet native bees aren't effected ..or as effected.. Plenty of Honey Bees around too, ..so those plants don't cause them to disappear.

M. m. ashei does tend to be smaller in stature / overall size compared to the standard form of Magnolia macrophylla.. The appeal is it's rarity, ..and of course, the interesting Flowers / big leaves..  If i could grow either, i'd probably try,  but ...wayyyy too dry / hot.  Possible they could survive in some areas in the coastal mountains back where i grew up in CA. / parts of S. Cal.  though.



Definitely add some Spanish Moss ..and any other native Bromeliads that might handle your winters to trees in that area / closer to where your property meets the swamp..   Agree too that Oaks / Spanish Moss / other Bromeliads / Ferns / Orchids ( in warmer areas ) that grow on the branches of Oaks go hand in hand -anywhere- they can be grown together..


A coupe more options i'd forgotten to mention for " interesting " trees:   Red Buckeye, ..and a " supposedly sterile cross with pink-ish flowers.. ... and 3 ( or 4 ) possible " Coral " Trees ( Genus Erythrina ) that may survive up there ..though the " tree " - sized species might act more like large bushes, rather than trees due to being cut back by colder winters there.. 

Anyway,  Erythrina herbacea is your native species, but both E. bidwillii,  a cold tolerant cross between two species, ..and  Erythrina crista -galli, another species that has shown some serious cold tolerance - once established, might be interesting to look into for various areas.. May not work as replacements for the Bradfords though, but could add some extra, unexpected touches of the exotic look to your future garden.