Dense hedge shrubs which tolerate sandy soil

[Sandy Loam]

Do sweet viburnum tolerate fast-draining sandy soil?   If not, what other dense hedge shrubs will tolerate sandy soil (does not hold moisture well). I am located in borderline Zone 9b/10a. I need something that stays green year round as well. Thank you!

[happypalms]

  On 9/23/2023 at 2:32 AM, Sandy Loam said:

Do sweet viburnum tolerate fast-draining sandy soil?   If not, what other dense hedge shrubs will tolerate sandy soil (does not hold moisture well). I am located in borderline Zone 9b/10a. I need something that stays green year round as well. Thank you!

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You could try azaleas 🌺 

[Sandy Loam]

  On 9/23/2023 at 3:07 AM, happypalms said:

You could try azaleas 🌺 

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Thanks. My azaleas do not grow thick enough or tall enough to screen out neighbours, unfortunately. Sweet viburnum does. 

[happypalms]

  On 9/23/2023 at 6:16 AM, Sandy Loam said:

Thanks. My azaleas do not grow thick enough or tall enough to screen out neighbours, unfortunately. Sweet viburnum does. 

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Perhaps syzigium species you can prune them as a hedge 

[Merlyn]

I started a thread about shrubberies here:

I can say for sure that Sweet Viburnum will grow fine in sandy Central Florida soil.  My problem with them is twofold:

1) They get sparse at the bottom 1/3 to bottom 1/2 of the height.  So if you are blocking up to 8 feet tall the bottom 2-4 feet will start getting sparse of foliage...and somewhat seethrough.  If you let them go wild and grow to block your neighbor's 2nd story window then the bottom 6-8 feet might be nearly seethrough.

2)  They randomly die for no apparent reason.  I've lost 7 or 8 full grown 8-15' tall Viburnum with no rhyme or reason.  Some died after winter, others looked just fine until the middle of summer.  One just died a couple of weeks ago.  They leave a giant hole in the hedgeline that takes a year or two to fill back in with a replacement. 

I'm still looking for a good alternative, and am trialing Podocarpus "Maki," Schefflera Arboricola variegated, Cocculus Laurifolius and am looking for Firebush (Hamelia Patens).  The frustration of random deaths and giant holes in my hedge are too much....

Edit: whups I forgot that you had already commented there.  My soil is super sandy below about 2-3 inches of mulch and debris.

[Manalto]

My vote goes to podocarpus. You'd be hard-pressed to find a tougher, more elegant evergreen hedge, or a finer backdrop for other ornamentals. I'd mulch well in sandy soil to be sure they get estsblished. I do get a fair number of volunteer seedlings from my 8B podocarpus, however, if that is a concern.

[Merlyn]

  On 9/25/2023 at 11:06 PM, Manalto said:

My vote goes to podocarpus. You'd be hard-pressed to find a tougher, more elegant evergreen hedge, or a finer backdrop for other ornamentals. I'd mulch well in sandy soil to be sure they get estsblished. I do get a fair number of volunteer seedlings from my 8B podocarpus, however, if that is a concern.

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Have you had any random podocarpus deaths?  And do they get sparse near the bottom if you let them get 8+ feet tall?

[happypalms]

  On 9/25/2023 at 7:17 PM, Merlyn said:

I started a thread about shrubberies here:

I can say for sure that Sweet Viburnum will grow fine in sandy Central Florida soil.  My problem with them is twofold:

1) They get sparse at the bottom 1/3 to bottom 1/2 of the height.  So if you are blocking up to 8 feet tall the bottom 2-4 feet will start getting sparse of foliage...and somewhat seethrough.  If you let them go wild and grow to block your neighbor's 2nd story window then the bottom 6-8 feet might be nearly seethrough.

2)  They randomly die for no apparent reason.  I've lost 7 or 8 full grown 8-15' tall Viburnum with no rhyme or reason.  Some died after winter, others looked just fine until the middle of summer.  One just died a couple of weeks ago.  They leave a giant hole in the hedgeline that takes a year or two to fill back in with a replacement. 

I'm still looking for a good alternative, and am trialing Podocarpus "Maki," Schefflera Arboricola variegated, Cocculus Laurifolius and am looking for Firebush (Hamelia Patens).  The frustration of random deaths and giant holes in my hedge are too much....

Edit: whups I forgot that you had already commented there.  My soil is super sandy below about 2-3 inches of mulch and debris.

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Love Monty python we are the knights of neeee or is it knee or ask thee questions of three what is the air speed of a swallow but first let’s haggle 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Merlyn]

@happypalms we are no longer the Knights Who Say NI!  We are now the Knights Who Say Icky-icky-icky-ptang-zoom-boing-hghwisjjvhnv.  And we demand......ANOTHER SHRUBBERY!  You could put it over next to this one, with a 2 level effect and a little path down the middle?  

[happypalms]

  On 9/26/2023 at 2:11 AM, Merlyn said:

@happypalms we are no longer the Knights Who Say NI!  We are now the Knights Who Say Icky-icky-icky-ptang-zoom-boing-hghwisjjvhnv.  And we demand......ANOTHER SHRUBBERY!  You could put it over next to this one, with a 2 level effect and a little path down the middle?  

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Tis but a scratch 🤪😂

[Manalto]

  On 9/25/2023 at 11:22 PM, Merlyn said:

Have you had any random podocarpus deaths?  And do they get sparse near the bottom if you let them get 8+ feet tall?

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No random deaths. I don't even get branch dieback, which is an issue with some conifers.

I like a hedge to be slightly wider at the bottom. That way, sunlight hits the lower branches, ensuring that they will be full. Having said that, even on hedges and individual podos out in the open, they tend to be full right to the ground. Podocarpus tolerates a fair amount of shade and still looks reasonably "tight." It has its limits, though, and stretches in heavy shade - which can be attractive, too, since the leaves themselves get long and willowy.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Manalto

[Rivera]

I like Griselinia lucida from New Zealand. I'm on sand too, but I live in California and I'm not sure this would do well in Florida. 

Lyonia lucida is an evergreen shrub native to sandy FL soils. Floridian plants generally don't grow well in San Francisco, so I have no experience with it. You'd get pollinators though.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 9/27/2023 at 8:48 PM, Rivera said:

I like Griselinia lucida from New Zealand. I'm on sand too, but I live in California and I'm not sure this would do well in Florida. 

Lyonia lucida is an evergreen shrub native to sandy FL soils. Floridian plants generally don't grow well in San Francisco, so I have no experience with it. You'd get pollinators though.

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Agree w/ Fetterbush ( Lyonia lucida ).  Looks good when not in flower too..  It does like wetter feet though.

[Sandy Loam]

  On 9/27/2023 at 8:48 PM, Rivera said:

I like Griselinia lucida from New Zealand. I'm on sand too, but I live in California and I'm not sure this would do well in Florida. 

Lyonia lucida is an evergreen shrub native to sandy FL soils. Floridian plants generally don't grow well in San Francisco, so I have no experience with it. You'd get pollinators though.

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Thank you for this suggestion.   I just googled both.  Griselinia Lucida looks like it can be shaped into a nice dense hedge, but does it grow quickly and will it grow tall (e.g. 8 or 10 feet)? 

 

Lyonia Lucida does not look like it could even be formed into a formal hedge at all.  Am I mistaken?      

 

[Sandy Loam]

  On 9/25/2023 at 11:06 PM, Manalto said:

My vote goes to podocarpus. You'd be hard-pressed to find a tougher, more elegant evergreen hedge, or a finer backdrop for other ornamentals. I'd mulch well in sandy soil to be sure they get estsblished. I do get a fair number of volunteer seedlings from my 8B podocarpus, however, if that is a concern.

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Thank you for the suggestion.  I had a hedge of podocarpus at my previous house, but they were SLOW growers there.  My viburnum hedge at that property grew at 10 times the rate, but only the ones planted in full sun.  That was in wet clay soil, though.  Do they grow faster in sandy soil?  Perhaps in my sandy soil at this new property, I won't have the same problem???

[Sandy Loam]

  On 9/25/2023 at 7:17 PM, Merlyn said:

I started a thread about shrubberies here:

I can say for sure that Sweet Viburnum will grow fine in sandy Central Florida soil.  My problem with them is twofold:

1) They get sparse at the bottom 1/3 to bottom 1/2 of the height.  So if you are blocking up to 8 feet tall the bottom 2-4 feet will start getting sparse of foliage...and somewhat seethrough.  If you let them go wild and grow to block your neighbor's 2nd story window then the bottom 6-8 feet might be nearly seethrough.

2)  They randomly die for no apparent reason.  I've lost 7 or 8 full grown 8-15' tall Viburnum with no rhyme or reason.  Some died after winter, others looked just fine until the middle of summer.  One just died a couple of weeks ago.  They leave a giant hole in the hedgeline that takes a year or two to fill back in with a replacement. 

I'm still looking for a good alternative, and am trialing Podocarpus "Maki," Schefflera Arboricola variegated, Cocculus Laurifolius and am looking for Firebush (Hamelia Patens).  The frustration of random deaths and giant holes in my hedge are too much....

Edit: whups I forgot that you had already commented there.  My soil is super sandy below about 2-3 inches of mulch and debris.

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Thanks.  I think you have talked me out of sweet viburnum now.  I don't want it to be "seethrough" at the bottom. 

 

[Sandy Loam]

I was considering Ficus Nitida, but the article linked below has talked me out of it (all ficus tend to be banned down in South Florida, but perhaps not up in Central Florida where I live).  Their roots are too aggressive down there and they now get infested with whiteflies in some instances. 

 

The article linked below is trying to talk me out of Clusia Fluminensis too, but I am not sold yet.  I am just not sure how it would look after a cold snap in Winter Haven, Florida.  Down in South Florida, I see giant Clusia Fluminensis hedges everywhere, but maybe they would look awful after our coldest winter night in Winter Haven (e.g. 30 degrees fahrenheit).   I had a couple of Clusia Fluminensis up at my previous house up north in Gainesville, Florida.  After a freezing night when temperatures dropped to 25 Farhenheit, those clusia plants looked horrible, were defoliated, and could not have served the purpose of a hedge.  Does anyone here know how far north in Florida a Clusia Fluminensis is reliably bulletproof climate-wise, and stays evergreen year round?  

This is the article that I was referring to:

Overplanting of non-native Ficus led to problems in Palm Beach (palmbeachdailynews.com)

Thank you for your input.  Please do not hesitate to post more at your convenience.  Thanks!

[Manalto]

  On 9/28/2023 at 3:03 AM, Sandy Loam said:

Thank you for the suggestion.  I had a hedge of podocarpus at my previous house, but they were SLOW growers there.  My viburnum hedge at that property grew at 10 times the rate, but only the ones planted in full sun.  That was in wet clay soil, though.  Do they grow faster in sandy soil?  Perhaps in my sandy soil at this new property, I won't have the same problem???

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I don't have enough experience of various soil types to answer your question. Here in Gulf-Coast 8B (and in my loamy, acid soil), podocarpus is pretty fast, going from 3 gal. to 7' hedge in 5 years. Another thing I like about this plant as a hedge is that it isn't a space hog; the hedge I have is less than 3' deep. It has also gone through the droughts of the last couple of years unfazed.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 9/28/2023 at 6:39 AM, Manalto said:

I don't have enough experience of various soil types to answer your question. Here in Gulf-Coast 8B (and in my loamy, acid soil), podocarpus is pretty fast, going from 3 gal. to 7' hedge in 5 years. Another thing I like about this plant as a hedge is that it isn't a space hog; the hedge I have is less than 3' deep. It has also gone through the droughts of the last couple of years unfazed.

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Couldn't agree more.. As mentioned ..a few times... before, after managing 1000's of them over the course of a couple years while in FL, ..not a slow poke,  at all.   Don't even need to wait a year after trimming to keep them at a reasonable height / from constantly blowing over when too tall ( in 3 / 7gal containers ) before they were 6' again. lol.

Definitely drought tolerant too ...just not " Phoenix tough "

[Rivera]

  On 9/28/2023 at 3:00 AM, Sandy Loam said:

Thank you for this suggestion.   I just googled both.  Griselinia Lucida looks like it can be shaped into a nice dense hedge, but does it grow quickly and will it grow tall (e.g. 8 or 10 feet)? 

 

Lyonia Lucida does not look like it could even be formed into a formal hedge at all.  Am I mistaken?      

 

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Yeah, Lyonia lucida would probably be more suitable as an informal hedgerow. It might take too much work (and water, it sounds like from Nathan's comment) to encourage the height and dense growth you're looking for.

Griselinia lucida can achieve height no doubt, but it's on the slower side. Where I live, growth rate for a lot of NZ plants is heavily dependent on how much water they get, as many of the popular garden selections show drought tolerance (and grow slowly in dry conditions) but respond to generous irrigation favorably with rapid growth provided they're in freely draining soil. I can't find an example of this plant growing in FL, so there may be more suitable choices. Also, while it makes an attractive hedge, it's best pruned to shape carefully rather than sheared efficiently due to its big round leaves that might look funny if you just cut through them.

[Merlyn]

  On 9/28/2023 at 3:26 AM, Sandy Loam said:

I was considering Ficus Nitida, but the article linked below has talked me out of it (all ficus tend to be banned down in South Florida, but perhaps not up in Central Florida where I live).  Their roots are too aggressive down there and they now get infested with whiteflies in some instances. 

 

The article linked below is trying to talk me out of Clusia Fluminensis too, but I am not sold yet.  I am just not sure how it would look after a cold snap in Winter Haven, Florida.  Down in South Florida, I see giant Clusia Fluminensis hedges everywhere, but maybe they would look awful after our coldest winter night in Winter Haven (e.g. 30 degrees fahrenheit).   I had a couple of Clusia Fluminensis up at my previous house up north in Gainesville, Florida.  After a freezing night when temperatures dropped to 25 Farhenheit, those clusia plants looked horrible, were defoliated, and could not have served the purpose of a hedge.  Does anyone here know how far north in Florida a Clusia Fluminensis is reliably bulletproof climate-wise, and stays evergreen year round?  

This is the article that I was referring to:

Overplanting of non-native Ficus led to problems in Palm Beach (palmbeachdailynews.com)

Thank you for your input.  Please do not hesitate to post more at your convenience.  Thanks!

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Other than the anti-scientific rant in the middle of the article (naming glyphosate as a neonicotinoid???) there is some useful info there.  I was considering Hibiscus as a hedge or accent plant, but they get infested with whiteflies too.  I read it was an issue if they were grown in partly shaded areas, maybe whiteflies don't like the sun?  I bought a couple of box store plants...and within a few weeks I had whiteflies.  The flowers look nice, but I don't need another pest in the garden. 

As far as Clusia goes, I wouldn't be concerned about the trimming aspect of them...unless you are planning a huge hedgeline that'll require lots of pruning back.  I share the same concerns about temperature, which is why I don't have any here.  My seagrapes and Ficus Auriculata defoliate and burn to the ground every year.  They have so far grown back from 24-30F torchings, but would never make a reliable hedge here.  I'm not sure how well clusia do at 30F, especially with frost.  It's good to know that they don't survive 25F without defoliation...that would rule them out for me.

One option I've been considering is the 2-level effect.  On my existing South side I have Viburnum that are approaching 20' tall.  They are super dense at the top but leafless below 6'.  But the neighbor's fence is likely a big contributor, and the combo can't be seen through.  On the West and East sides there's no fence, and they are super dense at the top and about 50% seethrough below 6-8 feet.  It might take a few more feet of ground space, but I've thought about planting a part-shade plant below it to fill in the low 6 feet.  I'm experimenting with this now on the East side, using Zamia Furfuracea with the super-dense thicket of cardboard leaves.  On the West side I am trying out Philodendron Evansii and "Little Hope," and Ficus Palmata "Icebox."  I've also looked at others like Spotted Laurel - Aucuba Japonica, and the common Schefflera Arboricola Variegated.