Clerodendrum thomsoniae - bleeding glory-bower flowering vine.

[piping plovers]

After 2 years my Clerodendrum thomsoniae has finally bloomed.  I couldn’t figure out what I was missing in its care,  but apparently sitting in water is helpful.  It’s been a rainy summer in RI and I just couldn’t keep up with emptying the saucer beneath the plant so it often sat for days in water.  Reading Wikipedia I came across this interesting tidbit:

“This plant was very popular during the mid 19th century under the name "beauty bush". It lost favour only when its unusual culture conditions were forgotten. Specifically, its root system must be partially submerged in water most of the time, and it wants very good light.”

Anyhow, I have always wanted one of these.  I recall years ago seeing them in old collections in a few tropical conservatories in the New England area.

I don’t ever remember seeing them growing outdoors in my visits to south Florida or the Caribbean. Maybe I missed their bloom season or for some reason they are not commonly used in landscaping plans? I’ll keep an eye out for them on my next trip to Florida.

 

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 9/13/2023 at 12:37 PM, piping plovers said:

After 2 years my Clerodendrum thomsoniae has finally bloomed.  I couldn’t figure out what I was missing in its care,  but apparently sitting in water is helpful.  It’s been a rainy summer in RI and I just couldn’t keep up with emptying the saucer beneath the plant so it often sat for days in water.  Reading Wikipedia I came across this interesting tidbit:

“This plant was very popular during the mid 19th century under the name "beauty bush". It lost favour only when its unusual culture conditions were forgotten. Specifically, its root system must be partially submerged in water most of the time, and it wants very good light.”

Anyhow, I have always wanted one of these.  I recall years ago seeing them in old collections in a few tropical conservatories in the New England area.

I don’t ever remember seeing them growing outdoors in my visits to south Florida or the Caribbean. Maybe I missed their bloom season or for some reason they are not commonly used in landscaping plans? I’ll keep an eye out for them on my next trip to Florida.

 

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Interesting tidbit about the " roots staying wet part " ..i know they like generally moist soil conditions / bright shade ( over full sun ) though..

I'd see these occasionally in yards while in FL. but definitely not something seen everywhere. C. bungei,  C. philippinum  ( Cashmere bouquet / False Pikake ),  quadriculare,  and C. paniculatum  were much more commonly seen.  Last 2 can be quite aggressive spreaders / modestly invasive in moist / shady spots.

Bigger bleeding heart specimens are definitely attention-getters when flowering. Like the standard white / red- flowered one, but partial to the solid red flowering form myself.  That one seemed to flower a bit easier too. On the rare occasion we'd be able to find some to sell, the red flowered one sold faster than the whites ( ..which didn't hang around long either, lol ) back in San Jose..

Overall, C.  splendens is my personal favorite,  even though it is quite sensitive to cold ( could have sworn it could tolerate at least a few nights right at 30F though  ) .. Good alternative that is hardier is C. speciosissimum.  I'd see these in yards around Clearwater and St. Pete every so often.  Easy to grow in pots ( ..though it can get big / bushy )



 

[piping plovers]

  On 9/13/2023 at 4:35 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

Like the standard white / red- flowered one, but partial to the solid red flowering form myself.  That one seemed to flower a bit easier too. On the rare occasion we'd be able to find some to sell, the red flowered one sold faster than the whites ( ..which didn't hang around long either, lol ) back in San Jose..

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Thank you Nathan for the information about all the other species.  I looked up the C. Splendens, I can see why that one is so popular.

Regarding the moisture needs: As I grow palms and orchids in pots, mostly indoors, my default setting is to never let anything sit in water (say, other than my papyrus and Venus Fly Trap). So, although I shouldn’t apply that care across the board, it’s hard to break out of that paranoia about root rot.  That’s why it was such a surprise to see blooms and healthy growth when un-drained saucers are usually a down fall for my plants.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 9/13/2023 at 5:58 PM, piping plovers said:

Thank you Nathan for the information about all the other species.  I looked up the C. Splendens, I can see why that one is so popular.

Regarding the moisture needs: As I grow palms and orchids in pots, mostly indoors, my default setting is to never let anything sit in water (say, other than my papyrus and Venus Fly Trap). So, although I shouldn’t apply that care across the board, it’s hard to break out of that paranoia about root rot.  That’s why it was such a surprise to see blooms and healthy growth when un-drained saucers are usually a down fall for my plants.

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  You going to add a small trellis behind it to clamber around on?

Agree..  i too don't like the idea of plants sitting in water -for the same reason(s). I had some Cattleya that rotted after staying too wet outside one winter while in FL  That said, if growing the same Orchid in 100% Pumice or lava rock, ..As long as the pot is tall enough, 1/3-1//2" of  water in a dish below the pot might not cause issues.

Aside from that, i've seen both Clerodendrum  bungei and paniculatum  growing in mucky marshy areas / near ponds in FL, so it seems they're one of those groups of plants can tolerate really wet conditions w/out issue.

[piping plovers]

  On 9/13/2023 at 6:37 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

  You going to add a small trellis behind it to clamber around on?

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Yes, you’re right.  It’s been in a hanging basket but now it’s getting to be a floor plant needing a trellis. Trying to keep it smallish until I eventually build a real greenhouse to let it clamber up in with jasmine.  That’s the plan, anyway 😁

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 9/13/2023 at 6:46 PM, piping plovers said:

Yes, you’re right.  It’s been in a hanging basket but now it’s getting to be a floor plant needing a trellis. Trying to keep it smallish until I eventually build a real greenhouse to let it clamber up in with jasmine.  That’s the plan, anyway 😁

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..They look good hanging too,  but yea, better on a trellis w/ some space to spread out.   How big of a greenhouse?

[piping plovers]

  On 9/13/2023 at 10:10 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

How big of a greenhouse?

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I’m thinking of a 14 x 16, but everyone says you will want double the space in a few years 😆. I was looking at a property in an agricultural town a few months ago with a very large double garage; (it could fit 4 cars) and I thought even the southern facing walls of that garage building could be converted to a large greenhouse/conservatory space. So, if I find a property with interesting buildings already existing I would do the math on converting for growing purposes.  I feel safer with a greenhouse connected to the house as I hear too many stories of collectors losing their plants in power outages, loss of heat, etc.  

I do like those Hartley Botanical greenhouses though.  Classic look.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 9/13/2023 at 10:23 PM, piping plovers said:

I’m thinking of a 14 x 16, but everyone says you will want double the space in a few years 😆. I was looking at a property in an agricultural town a few months ago with a very large double garage; (it could fit 4 cars) and I thought even the southern facing walls of that garage building could be converted to a large greenhouse/conservatory space. So, if I find a property with interesting buildings already existing I would do the math on converting for growing purposes.  I feel safer with a greenhouse connected to the house as I hear too many stories of collectors losing their plants in power outages, loss of heat, etc.  

I do like those Hartley Botanical greenhouses though.  Classic look.

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That's a pretty good size, but, i hear ya regarding already realizing you'll likely fill something that size, and need more space, lol.. 

Like the idea of having it as an add - on to...  rather than a freestanding building too.. Have pondered the idea of a large, wrap around enclosed patio- esque building with vents in the roof vs. the standard pitched roof greenhouse. 

While i might not need one to grow most stuff in say CA,  i've always envisioned an large enclosed space you can walk out into from a house, that contains stuff that will do / look  better  in a slightly more controlled environment,  plus a few ultra cold sensitive gems.

As far as maintenance,  already know i'd utilize solar for things like running any fans / vents  ..or what minimal heating / cooling might be needed,  and to move collected rain water around, and /or pond pump(s) for water circulation.

Glass is nice, but i'd constantly be worried about something damaging it..  Less expensive to replace something like Poly panels rather than glass..

[khachaturian]

  On 9/13/2023 at 12:37 PM, piping plovers said:

I don’t ever remember seeing them growing outdoors in my visits to south Florida or the Caribbean.

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Certainly not a rare sight here in coastal Chiapas (Mexico).

[piping plovers]

  On 9/13/2023 at 10:59 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

While i might not need one to grow most stuff in say CA,  i've always envisioned an large enclosed space you can walk out into from a house, that contains stuff that will do / look  better  in a slightly more controlled environment,  plus a few ultra cold sensitive gems.

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Yes, that sounds ideal.  And tropical birds for extra ambiance 😁. Solar energy and no real concerns for freezing; that’s an enviable situation.  Even protection from the wind and insects is such a benefit.  I find that my anthuriums and other aroids thrive in the quasi indoor/ outdoor screen room that is a sunroom in winter. My orchids, however,  want to be outdoors in the breeze.

I imagine that you would benefit from the added humidity in a greenhouse depending on what your microclimate is out in CA.

And Regarding the roof, I agree.  I like the greenhouse models that offer glass siding to complement the house exterior and then polycarbonate-type roofing for insulation, diffused lighting and added strength.

 

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 9/14/2023 at 12:00 AM, piping plovers said:

Yes, that sounds ideal.  And tropical birds for extra ambiance 😁. Solar energy and no real concerns for freezing; that’s an enviable situation.  Even protection from the wind and insects is such a benefit.  I find that my anthuriums and other aroids thrive in the quasi indoor/ outdoor screen room that is a sunroom in winter. My orchids, however,  want to be outdoors in the breeze.

I imagine that you would benefit from the added humidity in a greenhouse depending on what your microclimate is out in CA.

And Regarding the roof, I agree.  I like the greenhouse models that offer glass siding to complement the house exterior and then polycarbonate-type roofing for insulation, diffused lighting and added strength.

 

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Not sure about birds ..Plenty of " exotic " birds around in S. Cal these days,  but, have pondered the inclusion of a pond(s) for a collection of specific tree frogs / Day Geckos.. Then again, i might not need to add in the Day Geckos since one of the more common sp appears to be turning up in S. Cal on it's own  ..likely being brought in accidentally via plant shipments from Hawaii,  where they're established.  https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/34050-Phelsuma-laticauda  We'll see if it establishes itself there.

Green ( ...and Brown ) Anoles are already fairly established out there now as well.

Really just depends where you are..  Closer to the coast, S. Cal esp, humidity is reasonable, most of the year.. Bay area isn't bad, just cooler.  Desert areas obviously aren't ideal and would require expense to keep the humidity ideal / temperatures -summer esp- in a reasonable range..  Heating needs in both areas would be minimal in winter, unless growing extra ultra tropical stuff..

My main reason for envisioning an enclosed " greenhouse -esque " area there would be for orchids / other epiphytic stuff that wants it dry ..and a pinch warmer through winter than they might experience growing fully exposed outside.  I also have an idea of fitting / securing cut down Palm trunk sections / regular tree branches around / to the support beams holding up the " greenhouse " patio area,  for extra special vertical displays.

Glass, safety of course,  ..maybe double pane.. siding / window areas / Poly top was my idea too.. Windows would help w/ air flow on the days they could be opened, esp if any fans are placed near the windows / whatever vents on the roof are opened to help vent any built up heat..  Would also place various mid- height, non invasive ( root-wise ) shrubs / small trees around certain areas outside the structure to add natural, late day shade, esp. on the " hotter " days  ( even 85F in San Diego on any day in July / Aug would be cold by Phoenix standards, lol )

Floor would either be concrete, or an area of gravel, wrapped in a concrete edge.. Gravel would allow for drainage, but release moisture retained below the gravel, lessening how much watering might be needed, and help keep humidity levels at the higher end of optimal.. 

Have thought about such a structure wrapping around say the east, north and south side of a house so that you could take advantage of different microclimates created by the building itself ( ie: north side would be where cool lovers are grown, vs. south side = the heat lovers..

Just ideas,  for now at least.

[piping plovers]

  On 9/17/2023 at 4:08 AM, Silas_Sancona said:

Then again, i might not need to add in the Day Geckos since one of the more common sp appears to be turning up in S. Cal on it's own  ..likely being brought in accidentally via plant shipments from Hawaii,  where they're established.

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Always an education reading your posts.  Fascinating gecko; its colors and patterns can rival some parrots. Surprised to read they can live to 15 years.

 I like your ideas on the greenhouse. Not sure if there is an existing thread regarding greenhouses on PT but maybe we should start one- but where would it be nested under? Not a palm and not a tropical looking plant other than a palm, lol.

Anyhow, i bounced back and forth with ideas of a concrete floor for sanitation reasons vs a gravel floor for the texture and humidity. I like the compromise you came up with. Concrete perimeter with gravel contained.

And, the idea of using palm trunks for epiphytes is similar to what I was thinking of engaging in the interior design.  I imagined screwing down heavy duty hooks into the top end of dead tree trunks (say 6” caliper trunks or so) and then suspending them from support beams.  Like a forest of tree trunks that don’t connect to the ground. Than securing epiphytes to them.  If they were high enough up, it would be fulfilling to see strap leaf anthuriums, other aroids and orchids with their growth ‘water -falling’ downward while walking under them. Would need heavy duty support beams.

——OR—- I could just move to Costa Rica and be done with it 😂 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by piping plovers
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