What extreme heat does.. 22 days, and counting..

[Silas_Sancona]

We often talk about how cold temperature exposure effects plants.. Rare we talk about the other extreme ..Exposure to long duration heat. 

While -to some at least- this might not sound like much of a big deal ..it can be since in both cases, you are damaging tissue, which can invite other trouble..

In many cases, there are plenty of ways to protect plants -from either extreme-  In other cases, not much you can do except hoping the heat breaks.

A few examples of what 22 days ( incl. today  ..and counting )  above 110F plus dry air/ no rain can do to stuff.. Things that can't be moved to a shadier spot, until the worst of the heat ends. 

Ficus microcarpa / nitida. Top portions of the tree ( Approx 20ft in height )







Tipuana.. Slightly torched, despite deep watering 2x weekly



Morning Glories suffering some burn ..but a more significant Spider Mite attack ..simply because it has been so hot and dry..  Even though they get watered weekly.  They'll snap out of it once it starts raining more.



Junipers out back ..Hard to see in the pictures,  but after so many days of such heat, they're starting to turn yellow, an obvious sign of heat stress. What pines are left in the neighborhood are showing similar effects.  I may be cutting these down / completely tearing out to plant something better / taller  to provide some deg. of afternoon shade to this side of the house.  Evil Trash Tree peeping out behind the Junipers in the background, lol.  Needs to cool down so i can get behind the shed and chop them down.





Damage caused by such heat isn't limited to plants exposed to afternoon sun either.. have seedlings of some native stuff i keep in shade that are pretty toasty atm too..

[aztropic]

Jatropha's are not happy at all! They've always bounced back in the past though,as soon as the monsoon rains get established. 

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

[Barry]

That is some serious heat damage! It has been brutally hot here as well and minimal rain in our rainy season. Luckily I am able to irrigate my yard and keep things doing well.

[Tomas]

  On 7/21/2023 at 8:21 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

We often talk about how cold temperature exposure effects plants.. Rare we talk about the other extreme ..Exposure to long duration heat. 

While -to some at least- this might not sound like much of a big deal ..it can be since in both cases, you are damaging tissue, which can invite other trouble..

In many cases, there are plenty of ways to protect plants -from either extreme-  In other cases, not much you can do except hoping the heat breaks.

A few examples of what 22 days ( incl. today  ..and counting )  above 110F plus dry air/ no rain can do to stuff.. Things that can't be moved to a shadier spot, until the worst of the heat ends. 

Ficus microcarpa / nitida. Top portions of the tree ( Approx 20ft in height )







Tipuana.. Slightly torched, despite deep watering 2x weekly



Morning Glories suffering some burn ..but a more significant Spider Mite attack ..simply because it has been so hot and dry..  Even though they get watered weekly.  They'll snap out of it once it starts raining more.



Junipers out back ..Hard to see in the pictures,  but after so many days of such heat, they're starting to turn yellow, an obvious sign of heat stress. What pines are left in the neighborhood are showing similar effects.  I may be cutting these down / completely tearing out to plant something better / taller  to provide some deg. of afternoon shade to this side of the house.  Evil Trash Tree peeping out behind the Junipers in the background, lol.  Needs to cool down so i can get behind the shed and chop them down.





Damage caused by such heat isn't limited to plants exposed to afternoon sun either.. have seedlings of some native stuff i keep in shade that are pretty toasty atm too..

Expand  

At least, as long as you can provide water, the heat will not kill most of the plants like the cold. I hate red spider mite and those insects that will explode with the dry heat 

My Tipuana shows the same leaf damage, what's wrong with our sun, Rome is 42 deg. Lat. N. , the same as New York, and yes, it is hot but just around 100F? My palms are badly burnt, much worse than last year when the aummer was much hotter.

Has anybody tried caolin as protection from sunburn?

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 7/23/2023 at 2:55 PM, Tomas said:

At least, as long as you can provide water, the heat will not kill most of the plants like the cold. I hate red spider mite and those insects that will explode with the dry heat 

My Tipuana shows the same leaf damage, what's wrong with our sun, Rome is 42 deg. Lat. N. , the same as New York, and yes, it is hot but just around 100F? My palms are badly burnt, much worse than last year when the aummer was much hotter.

Has anybody tried caolin as protection from sunburn?

Expand  

Not necessarily 100% fool proof...   When it is 110+ out ..for days... Soak plants in pots, esp any where the sun is on them at any point thru the day,  and they can cook ( the roots ). Had this happen w/ plenty of things i'd  kept in shade.

May only be 109F in the shade when it is 120+ in full sun but water absorbs and retains heat, so, while the soil in those pots might not be broiling ( compared to the plants in full sun ) if X plant's roots are heat sensitive, even a soil temp of 104, in the shade, day after day, for 3 or 4 months straight, can cause problems.   Have lost ..uncountable... #'s of plants assuming just upping the frequency of watering would keep them going through these kinds of heatwaves..

Lawn area / in ground trees, etc out back are watered 2x weekly for just over an hour.. That does nothing to stop sunburn, ..an may actually make it worse by promoting tender new growth at a time when that growth is much more susceptible to being burned. 

Contrast that to out front where the Olive shades the grass / some other stuff, and the house itself provides shade in the afternoon.. Grass out there is healthy / grows like mad. Plants out there suffer some heat stress ..but not nearly as much as stuff does out back.

Some sps of Agave in the ground can also cook the same way as well.. 

Aside from what being in direct sun can do to some cacti which naturally grow under something else that provides X amount of shade,  Soak a # of cacti weekly / bi- weekly when nights are consistently in the 80s / 90s and they can cook, simply because, being the ultimate CAM plant, they can't breathe and go into a semi- dormant state when it is that hot.  Remember, cacti and numerous other Succulent- type plants, open their Stoma only at night.. Keeping them closed during the day is how they evolved to survive arid environments.

Numerous cacti will also shed finer roots when it is dry / hot to conserve moisture / save it for the main roots..  Then resume fine root growth when it rains and cools down.  Saguaro can start this regenerative process within hours of a Monsoon soaking.


Planting potted cacti specimens in the correct soil type / mix ..IE: less than 10% of...  ...or absolutely no Organics in the soil mix   seems to help ( Am able to give those specific Cacti an occasional splash or two of water when it is this hot,  w/out watching them cook, from the bottom up  afterwards )  ..but mirroring the kind of soil they grow in,  in habitat,  doesn't completely eliminate that threat.


As far as Kaolin.. I use " Tree Paint ",  which provides a similar, sun / heat reflective benefit, esp for thin / sun- sensitive- skinned trees like Citrus, ..The Tipuana,  my Plumeria,  etc.. Occasionally, you'll see trees around town that had been painted as well. 

I'll be painting the Ficus this fall when i raise the canopy a little.  Can see where the tree had been damaged after it was trimmed in the past. One reason i let it fill out as much as possible to shade the trunks this year.

As far as the weather goes, after such a wet / snowy  winter ( in nearby areas of the western U.S. ) i knew this summer would most likely lean drier / hotter ..but this is nuts, lol.  That said, it fits in with the overall pattern suggested in a warming world.  between the two? i think heat-related stress /damage will become more of a challenge compared to cold -related stress / damage going forward.  Sure there will still be cold winters ..Just think there won't be as many, ..Compared to sizzling summers anyway,  IMO.

 

[Silas_Sancona]

It's not just places like the Desert / Mediterranean that are seeing the effects of extreme heat either..

This was shared by a poster on Weather West: ** Post and Photo Credit, the poster **

[Rivera]

This looks intense. For any others like myself who do do not live in the affected area and know little of this meteorological phenomenon, I found this article to be informative. 

https://sgsup.asu.edu/basics-arizona-monsoon-desert-meteorology

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 7/24/2023 at 1:03 AM, Rivera said:

This looks intense. For any others like myself who do do not live in the affected area and know little of this meteorological phenomenon, I found this article to be informative. 

https://sgsup.asu.edu/basics-arizona-monsoon-desert-meteorology

Expand  

This too.. Each year i do the next installment  ..I need to do the PT #2 of this year's thread soon.
 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

A couple neighborhood Aleppo Pines..  There used to be about a half dozen more but have been taken out by the heat / drought 1 by 1 since i moved here in '16.  Noting the same clues before, When i start seeing them yellow like this after a really hot summer, i start the clock on how long they'll take to fully decline.. 






Sun burn on my landlord's Citrus.. Thank goodness i dressed them in paint this year.






Side note: .. Sunburn aside, How the Orange is doing after taking out the nasty Sour Orange root stalk portion that had taken over.  My idea of trying to strangle those two limbs by girdling each didn't work so i lopped them off a few months ago, leaving the part of each trunk i'd labeled " RS " with tree paint as a reminder that they are Sour Orange and not the variety of Orange desired.  I'll likely cut them down more in another month when i give the Orange a light trim to round it off / trim back the taller new growth off the Lemon..

[hbernstein]

  On 7/23/2023 at 7:48 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

It's not just places like the Desert / Mediterranean that are seeing the effects of extreme heat either..

This was shared by a poster on Weather West: ** Post and Photo Credit, the poster **

Expand  

Now that's REALLY depressing!

The Arctic and High North areas are warming much faster than the rest of the Northern Hemisphere.

Just wait until the big Antarctic glaciers rapidly collapse into the sea.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 7/24/2023 at 1:03 AM, Rivera said:

This looks intense. For any others like myself who do do not live in the affected area and know little of this meteorological phenomenon, I found this article to be informative. 

https://sgsup.asu.edu/basics-arizona-monsoon-desert-meteorology

Expand  

@Rivera

Two angles of the same, on-going storm:   ...Wait for it...  

..Golf ball -sized hail down there.. 110F and hazy up here...

" Catalina " Cam:
http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/products/wximagery/movies/last_90_minutes.mp4

" Rincon " Cam:

http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/products/wximagery/movies/rincon_last_90_minutes.mp4

[Rivera]

  On 7/29/2023 at 2:16 AM, Silas_Sancona said:

@Rivera

Two angles of the same, on-going storm:   ...Wait for it...  

..Golf ball -sized hail down there.. 110F and hazy up here...

" Catalina " Cam:
http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/products/wximagery/movies/last_90_minutes.mp4

" Rincon " Cam:

http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/products/wximagery/movies/rincon_last_90_minutes.mp4

Expand  

Whoa 😳

[Tomas]

  On 7/23/2023 at 7:25 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

Not necessarily 100% fool proof...   When it is 110+ out ..for days... Soak plants in pots, esp any where the sun is on them at any point thru the day,  and they can cook ( the roots ). Had this happen w/ plenty of things i'd  kept in shade.

May only be 109F in the shade when it is 120+ in full sun but water absorbs and retains heat, so, while the soil in those pots might not be broiling ( compared to the plants in full sun ) if X plant's roots are heat sensitive, even a soil temp of 104, in the shade, day after day, for 3 or 4 months straight, can cause problems.   Have lost ..uncountable... #'s of plants assuming just upping the frequency of watering would keep them going through these kinds of heatwaves..

Lawn area / in ground trees, etc out back are watered 2x weekly for just over an hour.. That does nothing to stop sunburn, ..an may actually make it worse by promoting tender new growth at a time when that growth is much more susceptible to being burned. 

Contrast that to out front where the Olive shades the grass / some other stuff, and the house itself provides shade in the afternoon.. Grass out there is healthy / grows like mad. Plants out there suffer some heat stress ..but not nearly as much as stuff does out back.

Some sps of Agave in the ground can also cook the same way as well.. 

Aside from what being in direct sun can do to some cacti which naturally grow under something else that provides X amount of shade,  Soak a # of cacti weekly / bi- weekly when nights are consistently in the 80s / 90s and they can cook, simply because, being the ultimate CAM plant, they can't breathe and go into a semi- dormant state when it is that hot.  Remember, cacti and numerous other Succulent- type plants, open their Stoma only at night.. Keeping them closed during the day is how they evolved to survive arid environments.

Numerous cacti will also shed finer roots when it is dry / hot to conserve moisture / save it for the main roots..  Then resume fine root growth when it rains and cools down.  Saguaro can start this regenerative process within hours of a Monsoon soaking.


Planting potted cacti specimens in the correct soil type / mix ..IE: less than 10% of...  ...or absolutely no Organics in the soil mix   seems to help ( Am able to give those specific Cacti an occasional splash or two of water when it is this hot,  w/out watching them cook, from the bottom up  afterwards )  ..but mirroring the kind of soil they grow in,  in habitat,  doesn't completely eliminate that threat.


As far as Kaolin.. I use " Tree Paint ",  which provides a similar, sun / heat reflective benefit, esp for thin / sun- sensitive- skinned trees like Citrus, ..The Tipuana,  my Plumeria,  etc.. Occasionally, you'll see trees around town that had been painted as well. 

I'll be painting the Ficus this fall when i raise the canopy a little.  Can see where the tree had been damaged after it was trimmed in the past. One reason i let it fill out as much as possible to shade the trunks this year.

As far as the weather goes, after such a wet / snowy  winter ( in nearby areas of the western U.S. ) i knew this summer would most likely lean drier / hotter ..but this is nuts, lol.  That said, it fits in with the overall pattern suggested in a warming world.  between the two? i think heat-related stress /damage will become more of a challenge compared to cold -related stress / damage going forward.  Sure there will still be cold winters ..Just think there won't be as many, ..Compared to sizzling summers anyway,  IMO.

 

Expand  

Wow, 120F is 49°C, that is impressive, I used to have a polytunnel with bromeliads, the temperature rised every day to 45°C inside, thanks to the sunrays, but all the bromeliads were fine with hevy shade cloth.

Recently I have seen a "cooked" cactus picture here in Italy too, probably it was in a greenhouse.

What could be the reason that avoiding any organic matter in a mix could help the plant survival?

Tree paint is widely used here too, but I am going to try the caolin mixed with water directly sprayed on the leaves of some of my palms, it is labeled for that use. I am curious to see the effect of white palms in the garden.

[SubTropicRay]

I was in Las Vegas and surrounding areas last week.  Lots of stuff looked cooked and decimated no matter how drought tolerant or able to withstand.  Not sure how folks in the desert do it.  

[aztropic]

  On 8/2/2023 at 4:14 PM, SubTropicRay said:

I was in Las Vegas and surrounding areas last week.  Lots of stuff looked cooked and decimated no matter how drought tolerant or able to withstand.  Not sure how folks in the desert do it.  

Expand  

Just keep telling yourself "there's always next year" ! 😅 

31 days straight of 110F or higher with 16 of them at 115F or higher,and 3 of those hitting 119F 'so far' in the Phoenix metro this year. Yes,it's exceptionally hot🔥,and has broken all previous records,including setting a new morning low of 97F! 

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

[Hillizard]

  On 7/24/2023 at 4:02 AM, Silas_Sancona said:

A couple neighborhood Aleppo Pines..  There used to be about a half dozen more but have been taken out by the heat / drought 1 by 1 since i moved here in '16.  Noting the same clues before, When i start seeing them yellow like this after a really hot summer, i start the clock on how long they'll take to fully decline.. 






Sun burn on my landlord's Citrus.. Thank goodness i dressed them in paint this year.






Side note: .. Sunburn aside, How the Orange is doing after taking out the nasty Sour Orange root stalk portion that had taken over.  My idea of trying to strangle those two limbs by girdling each didn't work so i lopped them off a few months ago, leaving the part of each trunk i'd labeled " RS " with tree paint as a reminder that they are Sour Orange and not the variety of Orange desired.  I'll likely cut them down more in another month when i give the Orange a light trim to round it off / trim back the taller new growth off the Lemon..

Expand  

My small 'Genoa" variety lemon handled the worst of the recent heatwave(s) just fine, but my precious "Meiwa" kumquat was a goner.  My 'Stewart" variety avocado was badly scorched and has regrown leaves twice this season.  Not sure how they'll all do if we have more triple-digit temps for days at a time.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 8/2/2023 at 6:26 PM, aztropic said:

Just keep telling yourself "there's always next year" ! 😅 

31 days straight of 110F or higher with 16 of them at 115F or higher,and 3 of those hitting 119F 'so far' in the Phoenix metro this year. Yes,it's exceptionally hot🔥,and has broken all previous records,including setting a new morning low of 97F! 

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

Expand  

...And we've got  -at least- another 5-9 day stretch of 110 / 110+ ahead, if the current forecast sticks to it's script..   Yay! 🤪  ..

Some adtnl. damage noted of other stuff in view ..just from my vantage point in the yard.  Will have to take a walk around the 'hood  soon.

Neighbor's much larger Ficus m. / n.  Intrigued these burned so badly esp. since they are grown ...many MASSIVE sized examples too down in Yuma, and Palm Springs.. 

One in the yard here has been dropping a ton of burnt / half burnt leaves over the past week.. Would estimate ..approx. 45% of the canopy has thinned so far.

Note While i can see some damage, overall, foliage on the Jacaranda on the far right looks better than i'd have thought it might..



Pine and Juniper.. Yellow-er..





Neighborhood Brachychiton populneus  ..pretty sure. Have to walk down there.



Smaller Sissoo. Kind of surprised seeing damage on these.

[Silas_Sancona]

I'd mentioned that we'd likely start seeing this.. A little surprised it is being noted this quickly though.   Note what the article mentions about how Cacti respond to hot night time temps.. This is proven science, not an assumption.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/national-international/cactuses-can-withstand-the-heat-right-in-parts-of-arizona-not-so-much/3284125/

 

[aztropic]

One of my VERY sad royal poinciana trees. Gets plenty of water but conditions are just too extreme for it this summer.I've never seen such damage,even after a winter freeze. Probably won't kill it,but surely set it back...

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 8/3/2023 at 1:21 AM, aztropic said:

One of my VERY sad royal poinciana trees. Gets plenty of water but conditions are just too extreme for it this summer.I've never seen such damage,even after a winter freeze. Probably won't kill it,but surely set it back...

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

Expand  

Oof..  And here i thought it was just my seedlings looking quite rough atm..    Guess i'm going to have to check on the one in the neighborhood.

 

[aztropic]

Some toasty Cycas revoluta. These plants are about 50 years old,and have seen it all. Fronds usually just turn a bright yellow most summers,but are really cooked this year. They are tough plants though,and all will be well when temps cool down and a new flush restores their beauty.

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

[Silas_Sancona]

After a couple weeks, ..and a little relief, some additional heat damage pictures..

Junipers out back looking worse, this one in more sun esp. Note the Torch Glow Boug. in the left hand corner.. Gets no water, but plenty of trapped heat, but has very little damage on it.



Other Juniper on the property ..this one out front in a position where i'd have thought it wouldn't have suffered all that much damage..

Well, ..As time has passed, not quite as safe as thought..




You know things are bad when a tree that originates in a fairly dry environment is totally fried..  No, not another Ficus ..or an Ash  That is a Carob.  Now,  because of how it is cared for, this particular specimen has always looked bad.   That said, i've seen others around Chandler,  which were planted in areas where the rest of the trees planted in the same landscaped area(s) looked fine, where the Carob trees looked awful.  It may hang tough but i really feel the stress from this event will be the final nail in the Coffin for this specimen.  If not, the end will come soon enough ..when the next summer of endless heatwave / barely there Monsoon season comes around again.








On a side note, there was a mention in a news story regarding all the severe heat damage being noted to trees around town where the person interviewed ( a landscape designer ) mentioned that the trees they're seeing the greatest damage on are some commonly planted non-natives like Ficus, Citrus ( ...a given considering their tender-ish foliage ) and Chinese Pistache,  rather than natives ( duh, lol )  ..the trees many people scorn simply because they look too desert-y, ...not lush ..like trees that grow where ever some transplant Arizonians come from ( Eastern / Southern States for example ).. 

I find this a bit humorous and sad since the city of Chandler recently planted a bunch of Pistache in some renovated street islands nearby earlier this year  and if heat events like this do become more common in the future, planting non native trees that will only experience increased susceptibility towards suffering heat damage like this every few years,  rather than such events occurring say once every 10 or 20 years ..thus being susceptible to all the tack on issues encouraged by repeated stress events,   those tree choices were poorly thought out.  

Perhaps the lesson for cities will be to not listen to the wrong people regarding.. /  hire the wrong people to address  street tree issues / options, etc....   This is a desert,  not a city on the east coast, or in a milder portion of coastal / near coastal California.  Stop allowing the planting of trees like Pistache, Elms, Ash, and non native Ficus sps..  There's a whole region just to our south and southeast full of interesting tree options that will tolerate more heat, drought-y years between the wetter ones,  let alone specific, select regions around the world with cool options for such a hot climate.  Sure they too may suffer damage in the " bad " summers, ..or in a rare, freakishly cold winter,  but probably less than an Green Ash planted in the desert.

Sure, in some cases, you can increase how often you water -to try and lessen the damage / save ( ..so some say ) x damaged tree(s) but, then you're then wasting a resource that is also under threat, just to save some trees that aren't adapted to this kind of climate..  Dog chasing it's tail scenario anyone?

[philinsydney]

At least the NWS haven't got any heat warnings at the moment. You must be back to your normal 106f high for the time being.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 8/10/2023 at 5:07 AM, philinsydney said:

At least the NWS haven't got any heat warnings at the moment. You must be back to your normal 106f high for the time being.

Expand  

Current forecast where i'm located.  Phoenix, closer to downtown,  would run a few deg hotter overall. " Around Normal " ..maybe slightly cooler on Sat.  ..then another jump up next week ..though i'm skeptical how high temps try to go.  Doesn't look to last too long if it does occur regardless..   Heat Aside, the big thing right now is the lack of rain. I've had a little, though less than what is typical for this time of year. Many parts of town haven't had a drop..  Quite unusual.


 

[Tom in Tucson]

I vote for more ironwood tree public plantings. They may be slow, but they are heat and drought tolerant, plus they provide shade.

Hi 106˚, Lo 80˚ 1/3" rain this evening so far

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 8/11/2023 at 3:35 AM, Tom in Tucson said:

I vote for more ironwood tree public plantings. They may be slow, but they are heat and drought tolerant, plus they provide shade.

Hi 106˚, Lo 80˚ 1/3" rain this evening so far

Expand  

Can think of a sizable list beyond  Ironwood, ( much more of which should be planted for sure.. )  from just south of us that should be grown / available much more widely..

Stuff like Ash, Pines, Elms, Pistache, Mastic, Non native ornamental Ficus sps ..like microcarpa, White Mulberry,  and S. American Mesquites ( ...and all of the " hybrid " Mesquites ) should be banned ..from being planted, or grown -by nurseries. Those planted after such a ban is initiated?  leave them to live out their lifespan ..but don't replace with the same species when they die / are killed..  



As far as sourcing any " new " stuff from say Mexico? ..Because of all of the local talk regarding how hard it is to source seed from there now  lately..  

...If old timers can bring back deer meat or fish from trips down there,  interested plant growers should be able to bring back a specific, permitted and cleared / certified ( when bringing back into the state  ) amount of seed off a selected list over the course of 3 or 5 years ( Depending on how such a collection permit would be agreed to / allowed by Mexico ) of stuff to grow / trial ..whatever you'd call it.. 

Guess a Phyto would do something similar, but, with the idea i've pondered,  such collection permits would be arranged similarly to how hunting / fishing permits are allocated ( perhaps a Phyto is essentially the same thing..),  ..just for seed.

Critically / highly endangered species aside, ( obviously )   Mexico could designate very specific spots where a determined # of those w/ permits per year, are allowed to collect X amount of seed per open " season(s) " within the permit timeline..  (  ...Say X person w/ said permit is only allowed to collect X amount of seed of Bursera penicillata  or cinerea from X designated area in Sonora or Sinaloa, twice within a 5 year collection permit period )

All the " Entry into the U.S. AG rules / Regs. " would have to be followed to a T / enforced as well obviously.

It's way past time to ditch all the water hungry / less heat adapted non native tree options, and stop ~largely~ ignoring the ( likely ) more appropriate options for our climate that are growing just to our south ..or southeast ( Hot, arid areas of eastern Mexico )

Why is it ok to bring deer meat  and/or Fish home from there,  but not necessarily a permitted amount of seeds, from a permitted list?  ( ...As long as the seeds are properly packaged, cleaned, and labeled - prior to entry. ) 

Maybe i've missed something obvious in discussions w/ people about the subject.. Maybe this is something that is allowed.  Anyway,

If not, the " Allow meat, but heck no to seeds " would seem like a clown show of dictated import laws / regulations, imo.

... A little Leafy food for thought...

Edited August 11, 2023 by Silas_Sancona
edit

[aztropic]

Queen palms also dropping by the thousands around the valley. Always cheap to replace,but never a good long term choice for Phoenix metro.

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

[Mangosteen]

Infrequent, deep watering is ill advised. Plants planted in a yard need water and they need it NOW. Plant roots need oxygen, as well as water, which is available for the most part no deeper than 12 to 15 inches deep in the ground. Watering deeply, below this depth, is a waste of water because there are no water absorbing roots that deep. 

Frequent watering to a depth of 12 inches is what plants need. Poke a piece of half inch re bar into the ground near where the root ball is. If you can't push it into the ground at least 12 inches, the soil is too dry and your plants will suffer.

One cannot "train" plants to grow deeper roots by depriving them of the water they need to thrive when they need it.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 8/11/2023 at 9:42 PM, Mangosteen said:

Infrequent, deep watering is ill advised. Plants planted in a yard need water and they need it NOW. Plant roots need oxygen, as well as water, which is available for the most part no deeper than 12 to 15 inches deep in the ground. Watering deeply, below this depth, is a waste of water because there are no water absorbing roots that deep. 

Frequent watering to a depth of 12 inches is what plants need. Poke a piece of half inch re bar into the ground near where the root ball is. If you can't push it into the ground at least 12 inches, the soil is too dry and your plants will suffer.

One cannot "train" plants to grow deeper roots by depriving them of the water they need to thrive when they need it.

Expand  

Not necessarily true with legit. Arid adapted / " desert " trees, ...at least those in this part of the world.. In fact, many of the wind throw issues we see during Monsoon season wind events are often traced back to frequent, shallow watering..  and shallow rooted trees like all the trash S. American Mesquites planted here.. Native Prosopis / Neltuma  sps rarely have issues.

Most desert trees want deep, infrequent irrigation ..I mean, Mesquites plunge their root systems 25-60+ft deep and take up water from down there  for a reason.. Yes, Our natives, like Mesquite, Palo Verde, Ironwood, Creosote Bush, and Smoke tree do possess some surface roots,  but, ...Nothing would survive the long droughts here if native trees were all surface rooters..

Those trees here that do produce more near-surface root mass, compared to deeper roots, are mainly restricted to canyon river courses ( Native Ash, Sycamore, Willow, Cottonwood, Celtis reticulata, Eysanhardtia, ..Ficus, and Taxodium, etc just south of the border )  where water is present feet below the soil throughout the year, even if the surface is bone dry..



I also remember conversations with a few native plant ecologists / botanists back in CA discussing why frequent irrigation of native oaks is bad practice. Learning this was one of several requirements for a certification course i'd taken back there as well.

Is one reason some forward thinking growers out in CA have been working w/ specific Quercus species like Mex. Blue Oak ( -from S.E. AZ- ) as a more summer irrigation tolerant alternative to the natives like Blue, and / or Valley Oak for street and residential applications.  Even then, Mex Blue Oak doesn't like a ton of water,  either..


There was recently something posted online concerning the severe damage being seen in many Ficus nitida / microcarpa here... While i agree that you should provide ~some~ water to stressed trees, ..i certainly have..  they won't really respond to more than a little help  if overnight lows are still hot ...The day after day  90+ deg lows we've been seeing here.. The stress of which, compounded by very little ..or no.. rain..  is something it seems many people who don't live here don't seem to comprehend..  

Temps have to cool, overall,  and we have to see a few deep soakings -provided by rain- for the trees to come out of survival mode and resume growth / recovery.  Until then, they are on defence, due to high stress... Kind of like when we are sick..  You going to head out to an all you can eat buffet when you have the flu? ..or are recovering from food poisoning?  I know when i'm down with something, i don't even want to look at a plate of Saltines, lol.. 

Simply put, you can dump all the water in the world on stressed trees.. Won't really help if everything else that effects them is still causing them to shut down -to survive.. 

We had a wet winter / cool spring ..so local trees were not stressed going into this..

As for stuff like Cacti and Agave ..Really any and all C.A.M. plants in general,  Water them when it is this hot, and they turn to mush..Good %' age of them anyway,  true succulents, Agave and many Cacti esp.   As mentioned elsewhere, they simply stop breathing when it is this hot.. All that extra water provided -to try and save them- drowns and steams them,  while they suffocate. 
 

[Tom in Tucson]

  On 8/11/2023 at 11:00 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

Not necessarily true with legit. Arid adapted / " desert " trees, ...at least those in this part of the world.. In fact, many of the wind throw issues we see during Monsoon season wind events are often traced back to frequent, shallow watering..  and shallow rooted trees like all the trash S. American Mesquites planted here.. Native Prosopis / Neltuma  sps rarely have issues.

Most desert trees want deep, infrequent irrigation ..I mean, Mesquites plunge their root systems 25-60+ft deep and take up water from down there  for a reason.. Yes, Our natives, like Mesquite, Palo Verde, Ironwood, Creosote Bush, and Smoke tree do possess some surface roots,  but, ...Nothing would survive the long droughts here if native trees were all surface rooters..

Those trees here that do produce more near-surface root mass, compared to deeper roots, are mainly restricted to canyon river courses ( Native Ash, Sycamore, Willow, Cottonwood, Celtis reticulata, Eysanhardtia, ..Ficus, and Taxodium, etc just south of the border )  where water is present feet below the soil throughout the year, even if the surface is bone dry..



I also remember conversations with a few native plant ecologists / botanists back in CA discussing why frequent irrigation of native oaks is bad practice. Learning this was one of several requirements for a certification course i'd taken back there as well.

Is one reason some forward thinking growers out in CA have been working w/ specific Quercus species like Mex. Blue Oak ( -from S.E. AZ- ) as a more summer irrigation tolerant alternative to the natives like Blue, and / or Valley Oak for street and residential applications.  Even then, Mex Blue Oak doesn't like a ton of water,  either..


There was recently something posted online concerning the severe damage being seen in many Ficus nitida / microcarpa here... While i agree that you should provide ~some~ water to stressed trees, ..i certainly have..  they won't really respond to more than a little help  if overnight lows are still hot ...The day after day  90+ deg lows we've been seeing here.. The stress of which, compounded by very little ..or no.. rain..  is something it seems many people who don't live here don't seem to comprehend..  

Temps have to cool, overall,  and we have to see a few deep soakings -provided by rain- for the trees to come out of survival mode and resume growth / recovery.  Until then, they are on defence, due to high stress... Kind of like when we are sick..  You going to head out to an all you can eat buffet when you have the flu? ..or are recovering from food poisoning?  I know when i'm down with something, i don't even want to look at a plate of Saltines, lol.. 

Simply put, you can dump all the water in the world on stressed trees.. Won't really help if everything else that effects them is still causing them to shut down -to survive.. 

We had a wet winter / cool spring ..so local trees were not stressed going into this..

As for stuff like Cacti and Agave ..Really any and all C.A.M. plants in general,  Water them when it is this hot, and they turn to mush..Good %' age of them anyway,  true succulents, Agave and many Cacti esp.   As mentioned elsewhere, they simply stop breathing when it is this hot.. All that extra water provided -to try and save them- drowns and steams them,  while they suffocate. 
 

Expand  

Well described reasons why infrequent deep watering is far superior to shallow frequent watering for desert trees and shrubs. One of the most common shrubs in both US southern deserts is the lowly creosote bush. If it didn't have an extensive root system, billions of them would die during prolonged drought. Like the ironwood and foothill palo verde, deep rooting is a prerequisite to survival when conditions are like we are now experiencing.

Hi 102˚, Lo 77˚ - light showers

[Silas_Sancona]

Some shots of post- extreme heat damage from the immediate neighborhood..

Ficus n / m.. While many are damaged, these that surround this particular house a couple blocks up were the worst.. Far worse damage than the one in my yard, or a neighbors ( That has the Jacaranda next to it )  Interestingly, there were a couple specimens in a few yards ..smaller sized specimens, that were basically un-touched..








Neighbor's larger ..more exposed to sun Plumeria.  Some leaf damage, but could be much worse ( Was fearing that outcome a little ) ..  Can see the Red-leaved Guava to it's left  / Pomegranate on the right look fine as well.. Exposure is due east but blocked by some trees closer to the street as the sun rises. after full sun exposure late morning to say 2 or 3pm,  the building shades the trunks during the worst part of the day..



His Pindo.. Young, but darn near perfect.. Sits in an exposure where it gets sun in the morning, but is then shaded by tall Sissoo canopy the rest of the day.. His trees ( ..Sissoo ) and a bunch of tall specimens directly across the street look un-touched by the heat.  Can't speak for the ones over there, but sure my neighbor keeps his irrigated ( He has a Fruit Forest underneath them ..which looks perfectly fine, sun sensitive Tropical stuff included )



Bamboo in the backyard of his parent's / grandparent's yard ( Directly across the Ally from the old house )  They had a 10ft tall Papaya back there earlier this year but not sure if it burnt, or was taken down on purpose.  Plumeria they have planted out front ..under the mesquites in that yard, look perfect.




Citrus in another yard across from where the bamboo is located.. Hard to see in these shots but boy are they crispy.. Nothing fatal though.






Pygmy Date ...And not the only -surprisingly great looking ( After such extreme heat ) fully exposed to the sun specimens in the 'Hood..  I may walk another area of the neighborhood tomorrow to see how some of the Pygmys over there look ( Among a bunch of other stuff )



Bit of a surprise.. Yep, those are Cannas ..in full AZ sun, w/ no apparent sun damage..  Note the Aloe vera to the left of the mailbox too.. Looks perfect.. Not a hint of scorch.



Neighbor w/ the Cassia fistula specimens:

Her Ficus benjamina.. crispy-topped, but it will survive..  Another in another yard is completely cooked.





Tamarind.. Though hers is a little thin / on the slender side, just about perfect " non " response to the heat..





Tamarind, Ficus benji., and one of several Moringa she has in her yard.. Dormant atm, but otherwise fine..



Cassia fistula could use more water / digging out the Bermuda below,  out to the drip line of the trees for sure though..  May not be the prettiest, but has survived.




...And the most important " Have to see how it looks " tree in the 'Hood, ..the Royal Poinciana..

While it's canopy does look a bit thinned, ..looks fine otherwise.. Note the flowers on it atm







..and a whole bunch of Seedpods ..both new,  and from last year..





The smaller one in a different part of their yard.. Grown a bit since my last view ..and NO damage..  Large Papaya that was located behind it, that had made it through last winter is gone though.   Hard to see ( didn't get a shot. Maybe next time ) but where they have a Moringa in their yard, it appears they planted a R.P. next to it ..or maybe the tree planted it, lol..  Regardless, that house is going to look great in another 4 or 5 or so years ( When it and the younger R.P. catch up to the mature-er specimen )   The Ficus looks pretty good too.





No shots but regarding neighborhood Bottle Trees, a few awful looking specimens, but many that look fine ..though you could see they dropped a good portion of their canopy, before a big burstt of new growth..  The biggest question going forward is whether or not the stress of this event could cause Texas Root Rot issues in the now healthy trees later..  Hopefully not.

As mentioned, may walk a different area of the total neighborhood tomorrow ( by the Hospital ) to see how some of the " Yard Saguaro ",  Pygmys, Ficus,  fared over there.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Silas_Sancona
edit

[Silas_Sancona]

Yep, Junipers are getting ripped out, even the one that survived, this time, to the right of the crispy critter... 

On the bright side of the situation, there will now be new spots for a Cascalote ( out back )  Plumeria ( out front ) Ugly, not adapted to the desert stuff sent to the compost bin, better-adapted stuff planted..   Win / Win







Torch Glow Boug out back, near the fried Juniper ( Same general exposure as it as well ) Looking fine. Only gets what water runs off the roof ..when it rains..  Needs a light trim. 

I see you  Peek-a-Boo Washingtonia..



 

[SailorBold]

I see the same here.. people planting colorado blue spruces.. pine trees..fruit trees..elms... they grow to a certain point but they can't get "established" enough to maintain.. whether it's the pH of the tap water or a rain less monsoon.. they decline and die and need to be removed.  Abq has varied soils due to all the terrain differences.. from caliche to decomposed granite.. clay in the valley near the river.. and of course sand..  I live in the sandy part.. which in turn is just a giant desiccant box..

[SailorBold]

Nathan.. do you think if there was additional watering either deep or shallow that those examples would have done better? 

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 9/10/2023 at 1:31 AM, SailorBold said:

Nathan.. do you think if there was additional watering either deep or shallow that those examples would have done better? 

Expand  

Unlikely...  I was watering 2x weekly for an hour ( or slightly over an hour ) and the Ficus still burnt, and not just the leaves.. You can see where it was damaged by the last major heat episode, likely in 2020.  Despite the 2x a week watering, the grass out back also took the brunt of the heat ( burnt and attacked by Chinch bugs / spider mites ), even though out front, it looked ..quite healthy ( no bug issues either ).. through the same extreme heat event.  Only difference is the lawn area out front is shaded by the Olive and house through the worst of the afternoon heat. Same # of days watered / time watered each time as i water out back.  Why not water more?  Besides being in a drought, I myself want deep soakings rather than more frequent, shallow irrigation that encourages roots to hover closer to the surface where they can be more susceptible to damage and will need wayy too much water.

If water, or lack of it, played a part in stuff burning, at least in the yard, the Torch Glow tucked in the corner out back would be dead ..or quite burnt.  Not bothered at all, even though it gets no extra water.  Same with the annoying  Bougs along the north wall out there.  Other than what water runs out of potted stuff under / near them when i water, they don't get any additional irrigation, and they grow like weeds regardless ...though the heat did slow their roll for a few weeks.  No serious burn on them either.

A big head scratcher in the yard ( and neighborhood ) are White Mulberries.  The remaining specimen out back gets nothing but lawn water, but barely suffered any burn.  Others growing in the neighborhood also seemed to shrug at the heat, this time around at least.  Weird that they did alright, but the Ficus ( related to Mulberry ) Bottle Trees, and Royal Poinciana, both dry tropical species were burnt, severely in some neighborhoods / parts of town.

Like any other living thing,  plants have a threshold of heat ..or cold / drought ..etc  stress factor they will tolerate.   Yes, how they are cared for plays a part, but, that doesn't matter when,  for example, it is 88-97F overnight, for several days / weeks in a row,  followed by intense sun and 110-120F heat each day.   Where is any relief from such stress?.   Add very little rain to the equation ( this year )  and...   If it kills people and animals,  ( Pretty sure we're on tap to set a stunning record for heat-related deaths this year )  what do you think such stress does to plants? 

Cacti and Succulents offer a clue since they can suffer obvious damage when it doesn't cool off at night.  Why would anyone assume various things in other groups of plants wouldn't struggle when they have reached whatever level of heat they can tolerate?  If it is too hot to function properly,  not much will change that until the stress factor(s) are reduced.

 Feeding or watering ..to try and thwart damage from X stressor  often won't do much,  and can make things much worse ( wasted fertilizer application(s) the plants won't use, because they are too stressed out,  cooked Cacti, and Agave / Aloes, etc succulent stuff,  ...rotting tree roots that can break easier in storm-related storm events, either just after,  or a year or two after being killed,  ...etc ) .. 

 At some point People have to accept that some things just aren't ment to be grown in places where they can't cope / no longer cope w/ the extremes of an increasingly hotter ..and/ or drier world..  Same would be true if reversed ..IE: things were getting colder..

Want a pine forest in your yard, but live in Gila Bend?  Move to the mountains..   Hate perfectly adapted drought tolerant subtropical " desert " trees / flora  and want your yard to look like some lush place back east,   in France /  Europe? ...or Hawaii?   ..move there.

Try all you want but if you live where it is too hot, too dry, and/ or too cold for most of those " desired "  plants to thrive, your attempts to create a fantasized landscape will fail, miserably, even if it takes a few years for nature to drop the hammer..

Trying to grow Blue Spruce or Peaches where it is becoming too hot for them to grow well is like setting all the money in a savings account on fire, just for fun.   Who would do that?  lol.

[Silas_Sancona]

A look at some other things -at the old house- that did ...better than i'd anticipated, in most cases anyway... over our brutal summer while helping my neighbors get the yards in order. City is still playing " city " games w/ their business plans for the place, so my neighbors will be renting rooms to traveling Nurses until the city gets their Ahem, .." stuff "... together.. 

Since they're renting, ..even if temporarily,  after this summer, things needed a little trimming / cleaning up to get some good pictures to post for prospective tenants.

Id' kept an eye on stuff from here, but hadn't wandered down to the house to get a closer look at how the cacti were handling this year's heat in a few months.. Seemed to have weathered 55 days of 110+ heat/ hot nights w/pretty much no rain this summer pretty well.. 

Is also testament to letting nature...  ..do nature  too  ...and not running out to water cacti whenever they shrivel a bit to get through brutally hot/ dry summers.. Pretty sure my neighbor gave things ..cacti esp.. just an occasional spritz or two of water late June thru now.. Other than that, everything has been on their own.  

As they saying goes, -more times than not anyway-  human intervention ( assuming frequently watering them will help Cacti get through extreme heat )  isn't always the best course of action and can cause more problems.  Who cares what any overly per-snickety neighbors  think of your somewhat thirsty looking cacti ..at least the cacti will live on once the heat subsides.. You can rest while persnickety neighbor guy /gal  spend sleepless nights wondering why their cacti / succulents / other plants croaked..  Anyhow..

G. coulteri..  Would be staked to get it  up a bit faster but, since it will likely be moved later, leaving it as- is for the time being..





Little-Leaf Cordia.. A touch thin looking atm, but given a good soaking,  it will explode with flowers / a burst of fresh growth.  Did exactly that after the one good soaking we had in early August.





Cacti....

Echinocereus coccineus ..w/ maybe some triglochidatus in it ...or whatever, lol



Other Hedgehog..   ..And the leaning Washingtonia in the background..  So much for the backwoods - inspired  bracing, lol..



Stenocereus ..possibly stellatus. .Or maybe not?.. 🤷‍♂️   I'd fully anticipated seeing some burn on it, but, pleasantly  surprised it is looking so green. 






Prickly pears..

O. macrocentra ..and / or azurea..  A touch thin atm but made it through the summer..








Opuntia X " Pina Colada "
 



The " I-Have-No-Clue-Exactly-What-It-Is " ( nor am i all that concerned about it's ID ) Prickly collected in Cen. TX.  " Baby Rita "  Prickly Pear to the left,  Beavertails / other " Rest Stop Prickly " in view toward the base of the Mailbox / light pole.



Fire Barrel..



Some late, for the year?? ..or is my assumption... flowers forming on it too..






....The not so pretty " Serr' vivors "..

Trichocereus X " Volcanic Sunset " ..Obviously, not liking it's current position.. will likely be moved.



Echinocereus pentalophus ....Sooo Close to flowering this year ..until the heat started to set in.. Then all the buds dropped / burnt off.  Thinking these like more shade ( here at least ) and a  little more moisture  so this clump ....and maybe the other that hasn't done much ether  will be moved.

[Silas_Sancona]

.....Fast forward on your Scooter to " Year of very little rain ..Locally at least, Take #2 ":

Therr be some damage out there..

As mentioned elsewhere, apparently, stress from the heat + " Un- invited guests " took down the TX Ebony planted out front.. Keeping an eye on the base, which had looked like it might mount a recovery ...No Bueno.  Started oozing sap and what growth was appearing kicked the bucket. ..So, it gets the Axe this fall..

PITA Tipuana has also been struggling since i was forced to top it, slowly burning from the top down.  This is DESPITE 2X a week deep soaks. After thinking i'd taken off  the last of what got burned / died off, noticed what growth was pushing out stopped and is now ...Ded...

Will be ripped out ( reluctantly ) this fall as well.

Contrast these with the young ..but growing steadily.. Albizia sinaloensis  i'd started from seed / planted here as a skinny shrimp of a sapling ..Not a hint of heat / sun -related damage on it.

Same thing w/ a skinny Desert Hackberry ..also started from seed / planted young  i'd trimmed up quite a bit to get it  up ...a little faster than they like to grow on their own. ( The kind of smaller Tree that likes to build a little height, than weep out a bit more ..before adding a little more height )  Is at the desired " bottom of canopy " height  and is doing it's own thing.. 

Trunk is skinny ..and nekked..  No damage, even though it is closer to the hot w/ facing block wall that bakes in the sun, all day,  than the Tipuana nearby.

Pictures of both later..




Anyway, some other things noted - so far-  that seem to be struggling w/ the heat this year..

Texas Mtn. Laurel..  Had noticed several larger / older specimens in the med. office plaza across the street were turning quite yellow. Had thought that maybe it was more of a " office complex 'es irrigation might have some irrigation- related issues currently " kind of thing  ..until seeing these, about a half mile away.  Same roasted / tired look,  on well established specimens ....even though the Ironwood they're growing below look fine.  Don't recall seeing any planted locally looking this bad last year.

It would be an odd coincidence if " irrigation problems " were the cause of these looking awful, in both places,  rather than what my spidey senses are saying.


  Not a good sign if back to back  hot / dry summers like this start occurring more. Ironwoods look great tho.







I'll be the first to admit that i've been a little stingy on watering some stuff out front this year,  so it was expected that the Yellow Morning Glory ( Distimake aureus )  might not look too great once the heat set in.  Noticed it did the same thing last year, ..even with some watery help,  brought to it by humans,  thru the worst of the heat at that time.

Looking a bit  ..uhh, trashy   after a couple weeks of the heat burnt off most of the foliage ( and developing flowers / a few seed pods  ), i decided to trim it and allow it to push out fresh growth. ..and was a bit more generous w/ the water.   Well..

It appears that didn't go as planned..  " Woody " parts i'd cut back to are all ...ded.. but,  note the new growth rapidly ascending from the base. 

A hair perplexed the heat would have knocked out the older / woodier growth since this hails from S. Baja where it is about as dry ( maybe drier ) and about as hot ( this year ferr' sure ) as here and these will flush new growth quickly when they get a good soaking or two.

" woody " tissue is approx 2y. worth of growth.





While i have been a stingy, it been getting water  ..when i water Plumeria nearby and on the porch too.. If it were a water thing, Green as can be Gossypium thurberi  planted a few feet away would also be ..ahem,  ..ded..  Same w/ the Calliandra / Turpentine Bush planted in that bed, which i've been quite stingy with, water -wise. 

Weird.


 

[Silas_Sancona]

Great read on what the recent, extra - hot summers have done to plants ..both natives and non native stuff peddled by local nurseries.

Not just here either ..Vegas is seeing the effects of this summers' nuke fest up there as well. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/desert-plants-burning-dying-heat-agave-saguaro-cacti-rcna166834

More summers like these and there will be some big changes in what is planted / offered in nurseries, esp. in areas like Las Vegas that had been safer for stuff that can't grow here.