Did I introduce a new weed to my garden?

[Tomas]

I like Tradescantias, especialy this one and it looked so fragile when I was given some cuttings (😁), but now I am a bit concerned, will it harm the other plants, especially the palms, growing so vigorously and densely?

Edited July 12, 2023 by Tomas

[Silas_Sancona]

23 minutes ago, Tomas said:

I like Tradescantias, especialy this one and it looked so fragile when I was given some cuttings (😁), but now I am a bit concerned, will it harm the other plants, especially the palms, growing so vigorously and densely?

While it may compete for surface water,  being semi succulent, Tradescantia  will only use so much water to grow.. Rest of what water is applied will be taken up by the deeper roots of the palms / other, more vigorous plants. 

As a ground cover, it will tamp down on the really bad weeds that could try to establish themselves in the planting bed. It will also keep the soil cooler, and continually contribute / recycle organic material / nutrients into the soil below it..

On a scale of " harmful " to the other plants growing with it, i myself would place this stuff  in the " low risk "  category ...compared to other things that could cause problems when planted / allowed to grow below / around  palms ..or anything else. ( IE: Running Bamboo / Reeds,  Japanese Spurge / Knotweed,  Ivy, ...Grasses like Bermuda, Johnson, Guinea, Buffel, or Cogon,  which are a few examples of  deep-rooted and/or highly aggressive growing "weeds"  which will negatively effect the growth of woody plants and Palms growing in the same space.

In FL, this stuff carpeted the ground on a green space berm that separated my neighborhood from a Town home complex.. PLENTY of Sabal palmetto ..and some rouge Washingtonia ..of various sizes / ages,  other weedy, warm season native and non native stuff,  Brazilian Pepper,  and a forest of native Hackberry all grew perfectly fine among the Tradescantia  carpeting the ground below it..

Very easy to pull it up too if it wanders into areas you don't want it.

[Tomas]

It sounds very good, thank you. On the water competition side, I pulled up some Tradescantia few weeks ago and threw them on the compost pile, with no direct sun the Tradescantia still looks fresh, so it realy does not require much water

Btw, in Italian it is called miseria because it takes root so easily

[Silas_Sancona]

  Curious, in Italy, would the proper pronunciation  be more of an upward inflected emphasis of  the " Mi " part of the name ..as in " Mee " - seria ,  rather " Mii - seria "?  Either way works of course, but i know in both Italy and Spain / Spanish speaking nations,  words often have more zest / enthusiasm than how many English speaking people might say the same word(s)

Yeah, lol have done something similar and had them start growing again as soon as they got watered a few times ..tough pants.  Moses in a Boat, and the Purple leaved Trad. ..What is often called " Purple Heart " here in the states are just as versatile ..They're a bit more aggressive though, so those you'd want to keep in pots vs. letting them run wild in the yard.

Not sure it grows there but both Asiatic and Tropical Day Flower, Commelina communis, C. benghalensis,  can be a bit aggressive, but generally won't negatively effect how well other, more robust plants will grow in the same beds..  Is one of the few tropical looking ground cover-y things for shady spots that can tolerate our heat w/ out wasting a ton of water trying to keep them looking good. Bright blue flowers / bright green foliage have a nice cooling effect in a landscape too.

Have a coupe native Dayflower sps that are more modest / stay tidy / in a clump, and grow out in more open areas.
 

[Merlyn]

I've wondered that myself, because I grabbed a handful of it growing along a bike path and put it in my nursery area.  It grows pretty dense, but generally doesn't try to climb up palms.  It will, however, climb up and over and into potted seedlings, so I have to pull a bunch out once or twice a year.  It hasn't become a hassle, yet.  And it does seem to compete well against the weeds that typically grow in pots, so there is a little benefit.  I have not let it loose in any other area of the yard, because I am also concerned with it becoming a weed.  But along the bike path it just forms a nice carpet about 3" deep and doesn't crawl out into full sun or climb up any trees.  So at some point I may try it in an area I can control, and see what happens!

[iDesign]

Ah yes, tradescantia zebrina... great plant and very hardy.

I have mine in a mostly-shaded area, which I use as a wallcovering - I love the splash of purple they provide against the green. This particular area is much overdue for "freshening" (specifically moving the lower ones back to the top of the wall, and filling in any bare spots). I had a few other plants on this wall in the past, but only the staghorn ferns, zebrina, spider plant + one round leaf green plant (that I haven't identified yet) were hardy enough to make it.

]

Less awesome (embarrassing in fact) is a patch of zebrina I have growing on a Sylvester palm... which really ought to be removed ASAP. I originally put just a bit of zebrina on the outer edges to hide the ugly pot... but it somehow turned around and started to climb the palm itself!  Hmmm, I think I'll move "rescue Sylvester" up on my to-do list 🙄

EDIT: I just investigated the situation and was pleased to see the zebrina was easy to pull off Sylvester. Unlike more "invasive" crawlers, it was climbing but not entrenching itself. That said I'm pretty concerned (like you) about the zebrina stealing water or nutrients from the palm, since the zebrina roots are now right next to the palm base. I'll continue to watch this thread for comments... but am currently thinking I'd better just remove all the zebrina from the pot (or at a minimum, make sure it's only ever on the FAR outer rim).

 

[Merlyn]

@iDesignyeah I've noted that it doesn't want to climb up on smooth surfaces, like trunking Queens in my nursery or oaks along the bike path.  But it'll definitely climb up stuff with notches on the surface, like the old boots of a Sylvester.  It does pull off really easy, the roots break off of even palm seedlings without damaging the seedling.  And the stems break really easy too.  That's totally the opposite of most vines, which aggressively grab onto things, have tough roots and stems, and twine around stems.  I might let some go in my front NW bed, which is bordered by grass on one side and a circular driveway on the other.  There's nothing "delicate" in that bed so it would make a good experiment.

[Calosphace]

It's just a groundcover. I have grown it with heavy feeders in multi gal containers and not seen any difference made by its presence. I cannot really imagine it having an impact on something like a palm.. it's normally the other way around. It has shallow, small roots. The turfgrass nearby has a greater effect. Also it doesn't climb but "spills", won't smother anything but seedlings. Only concern is it displacing other groundcover species. I'm not familiar with climate of Rome but in North FL while this species can be aggressive in gardens, it's not competitive in natural areas

[iko.]

I found Tradescantia zebrina a good groundcover to control the weed Oxalis pes-caprae. It auto regulates itself don’t know why/how, meaning that sometimes the plant stops growing, looks like dying and then grows back again with vigour. I have some palms in the same area and they’re unaffected. They also combine well mixing Tradescantia varieties, but zebrina in any of its hybrids seems the fastest growing. 
 

12 hours ago, iDesign said:

Ah yes, tradescantia zebrina... great plant and very hardy.

I have mine in a mostly-shaded area, which I use as a wallcovering - I love the splash of purple they provide against the green. This particular area is much overdue for "freshening" (specifically moving the lower ones back to the top of the wall, and filling in any bare spots). I had a few other plants on this wall in the past, but only the staghorn ferns, zebrina, spider plant + one round leaf green plant (that I haven't identified yet) were hardy enough to make it.

@iDesign, off topic but in case you’re interested: I think the plant you’re not sure about the name is Plectranthus verticillatus, or money plant for some people.

Edited July 13, 2023 by iko.

[Tomas]

On 7/12/2023 at 11:16 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

  Curious, in Italy, would the proper pronunciation  be more of an upward inflected emphasis of  the " Mi " part of the name ..as in " Mee " - seria ,  rather " Mii - seria "?  Either way works of course, but i know in both Italy and Spain / Spanish speaking nations,  words often have more zest / enthusiasm than how many English speaking people might say the same word(s)

In Italian the accent is mainly (but not always) on the second penultimate syllable and is expressed more with the lengthening of the vowel than with the emphasis. As to the pronunciation

https://en.bab.la/pronunciation/italian/miseria

It also stays for exclamation Miseria! (damned!), Porca miseria! (sh.t!)

[Tomas]

There are two cases in which I think it is better to avoid tradescantia, with low growing plants like bromeliads, where tradescantia is able to cover the others completely, and when it comes to plants that need air around the base. I almost lost a Pseudobombax ellipticum during our long cold Mediterranean winter, it was not the fault of tradescantia, but a curse called Lapeirousia laxa, but I can imagine that the same effect could also be produced by tradescantia by creating humidity with its dense growth .
Then as far as I know, T. zebrina does not produce seeds, which is a huge advantage, years ago I found this plant in a pot on the terrace, and in a few years it has invaded the whole terrace, popping up everywhere

[D Palm]

It will spread. I had some in a hanging pot many years ago on the back porch at my old house. Left it there back in 2015 because it does become a hassle if it escapes the confines.

[Silas_Sancona]

13 hours ago, Tomas said:

There are two cases in which I think it is better to avoid tradescantia, with low growing plants like bromeliads, where tradescantia is able to cover the others completely, and when it comes to plants that need air around the base. I almost lost a Pseudobombax ellipticum during our long cold Mediterranean winter, it was not the fault of tradescantia, but a curse called Lapeirousia laxa, but I can imagine that the same effect could also be produced by tradescantia by creating humidity with its dense growth .
Then as far as I know, T. zebrina does not produce seeds, which is a huge advantage, years ago I found this plant in a pot on the terrace, and in a few years it has invaded the whole terrace, popping up everywhere

Though not as " seedy" as some stuff, i think they do produce seed.. but seed would be so tiny, like dust, one wouldn't notice it.

In FL., i'd see beds where T. zebrina ..or the Purple Heart-type of Trad. .. were filled in around Bromeliads. Didn't seem to effect how the Broms. grew, though i can see how it could over top lower growing Broms.

In the case of a tree like Pseudobopmbax ellipticum, ..possible a thick ground cover might effect smaller sized specimens but where it grows in Mexico, there are all sorts of annuals/ perennials that grow below specimens of that sp. there..

Even in Sonora, the ground below a lot of  dry forest, " tropical-esque " types of trees might look completely bare in April, during the height of their dry season, but come late Aug. / September after half a foot of rain, many areas become almost impenetrable and very lush..  ..As though you'd accidentally ventured into the forest in the mountains above or south Puerto Vallarta ..or far S. Mexico, instead of somewhere in Southern Sonora or Sinaloa, in Northwestern Mexico, just south of Arizona. 

[Tomas]

13 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Though not as " seedy" as some stuff, i think they do produce seed.. but seed would be so tiny, like dust, one wouldn't notice it.

In the case of the Commelinacea pictured above, I have never noticed a fruit (actualy never looked for it), but it spreads so quickly that the seed production must be copious.

13 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

In the case of a tree like Pseudobopmbax ellipticum, ..possible a thick ground cover might effect smaller sized specimens but where it grows in Mexico, there are all sorts of annuals/ perennials that grow below specimens of that sp. there..

The damned Lapeirousia grows during winter and combined with the wet cold of our winter, here is the disaster, the Pseudobombax was 10 feet high.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Tomas

[Silas_Sancona]

43 minutes ago, Tomas said:

In the case of the Commelinacea pictured above, I have never noticed a fruit (actualy never looked for it), but it spreads so quickly that the seed production must be copious.

The damned Lapeirousia grows during winter and combined with the wet cold of our winter, here is the disaster, the Pseudobombax was 10 feet high.

That's like Oxalis pes caprae out in CA... hard to control it once it invades, and it grows extremely thick.

With Pseudobombax, i've learned they need really well draining soil.. Put them in anything that doesn't drain well,  and they croak ..or pout.  My white one gets tip burn during our cooler winters, but has yet to suffer beyond that during wetter winters here.

There's a nursery in Pasadena ( N.E. of Los Angeles ) that has a large tree growing next to a fish pond, next to a much bigger Aloe / Aloidendron barberae in the same spot. Access to extra water while dormant in winter, on top of whatever falls from the sky in wetter years -like last year, doesn't seem to bother it. Know of other specimens that are placed in / near lawn areas that seem to do well also.

Pink form is rare in S. Cal but, from what pictures i have seen, they seem to handle the cooler winter temps/ extra wet-ness in wetter winter years alright as long as they are in really rocky / gravely soil.  Exactly what i see them growing in when i find specimens in Sonora or Baja on google Earth / other specimens in habitat on iNaturalist.

[Billy]

I've had Transcantia zebrina growing in the moat of one of my Cyphophoenix elegans for about a year now and although it has completely filled up the moat, it's not climbing the trunk and doesn't seem to be negatively affecting the palm in anyway. It seems to serve as a nice ground cover and may even help retain moisture but who knows.....

[Tomas]

On 7/16/2023 at 8:36 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

That's like Oxalis pes caprae out in CA... hard to control it once it invades, and it grows extremely thick.

With Pseudobombax, i've learned they need really well draining soil.. Put them in anything that doesn't drain well,  and they croak ..or pout.  My white one gets tip burn during our cooler winters, but has yet to suffer beyond that during wetter winters here.

There's a nursery in Pasadena ( N.E. of Los Angeles ) that has a large tree growing next to a fish pond, next to a much bigger Aloe / Aloidendron barberae in the same spot. Access to extra water while dormant in winter, on top of whatever falls from the sky in wetter years -like last year, doesn't seem to bother it. Know of other specimens that are placed in / near lawn areas that seem to do well also.

Pink form is rare in S. Cal but, from what pictures i have seen, they seem to handle the cooler winter temps/ extra wet-ness in wetter winter years alright as long as they are in really rocky / gravely soil.  Exactly what i see them growing in when i find specimens in Sonora or Baja on google Earth / other specimens in habitat on iNaturalist.

I am looking for the pink flowered variety too, but it is impossible to find here in Europe, I mean a plant that is granted to be pink.

The Pseudobombax had base rot isues even when growing in pot, I use a lot of lava rock, very porous mix.

Here is a picture before the rot, I succeded in saving it just cutting the trunk above the rot zone, letting the cut dry and placing it on the surface of the mix mentioned before in a small pot. It sent vigorous roots , but there is a lingitudinal crack tha I do not know whether it will cause a new rot.

[Tomas]

 

On 7/16/2023 at 9:32 PM, Billy said:

I've had Transcantia zebrina growing in the moat of one of my Cyphophoenix elegans for about a year now and although it has completely filled up the moat, it's not climbing the trunk and doesn't seem to be negatively affecting the palm in anyway. It seems to serve as a nice ground cover and may even help retain moisture but who knows.....

Yes, I think too it will not climb too much, here it is on the brazilian pepper tree trunk, I do not control it in any way

 

And here is a similar example, a Trachycarpus densely surrounded by the tradescantia. I would not like something similar for example with Bismarckia or some of the more xeric palms.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Tomas