Joshua Tree live plants on ebay, can they take this kind of transplanting?

[fr8train]

What do you guys think? I've read they're very sensitive to transplanting, yet here they are looking like someone had just ripped them out of the ground. Which is true? Will these survive? 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/404168467386?hash=item5e1a5163ba:g:5skAAOSwMv5j77ie

https://www.ebay.com/itm/404164241058?hash=item5e1a10e6a2:g:LQMAAOSwmMRj7ATz

[GeneAZ]

Yes, this is how they are commonly offered here in Phoenix.  Recently removed from nature, usually by permit.  Actually a good time of year to get them since we're going to heat up quite a bit in the next two weeks.  I have great success with the large suckers from the base rooting really easily when planted in pure decomposed granite 1/4 to 1/8 inch size.  Nice short-leaf form.

[fr8train]

19 minutes ago, GeneAZ said:

Yes, this is how they are commonly offered here in Phoenix.  Recently removed from nature, usually by permit.  Actually a good time of year to get them since we're going to heat up quite a bit in the next two weeks.  I have great success with the large suckers from the base rooting really easily when planted in pure decomposed granite 1/4 to 1/8 inch size.  Nice short-leaf form.

That's interesting. Do Joshua Trees usually transplant well? 

Edited February 21, 2023 by fr8train

[Silas_Sancona]

I'd be extremely suspicious of anyone on Ebay offering up plants at that size, let alone saying they're tagged / were collected legally. Would be asking to see any and all paperwork before considering purchasing. Honestly, i'd purchase something like this from legit nurseries only.

Considering where you're located ..Texas, if i recall from past threads correctly? I'm not sure Y. brevifolia would survive there.. These are True desert plants that can take some heat, but, where they grow it is dry ..even drier than here in the low desert.   It also doesn't rain much -if at all- in the Mojave desert in Summer ...so they may dislike the wet summers in Texas ..Most of the state anyway.. 


If you do decide to pursue either offer ..or something else,  would follow Gene's idea to the T and plant in it's own spot, in a deep layer of nearly pure grit/gravel, if not slightly raised above the natural grade.  ..NO organic anything in the soil mix.  NO applying chemical fertilizers either. 

[GeneAZ]

3 hours ago, fr8train said:

That's interesting. Do Joshua Trees usually transplant well? 

Here in the low desert, the success is directly connected to this March to April time period.  As mentioned in this thread, it's best to make a small 10-inch hill of soil with granite in it and prop it in place planted in the hill.  It is important that it is not rocking from wind or people, so I like to use boulders at the trunk base, or to stake and tie with ropes for the first year or so.  If it moves much, the new root tips keep bruising or breaking and the plant is stalled over and over.  

You can still have success later in the summer and even winter, but the percent of survival is much less if you do this in July to September or anytime in winter from late December to February 15.  March to April is magic time!!

[fr8train]

3 hours ago, GeneAZ said:

Here in the low desert, the success is directly connected to this March to April time period.  As mentioned in this thread, it's best to make a small 10-inch hill of soil with granite in it and prop it in place planted in the hill.  It is important that it is not rocking from wind or people, so I like to use boulders at the trunk base, or to stake and tie with ropes for the first year or so.  If it moves much, the new root tips keep bruising or breaking and the plant is stalled over and over.  

You can still have success later in the summer and even winter, but the percent of survival is much less if you do this in July to September or anytime in winter from late December to February 15.  March to April is magic time!!

Interesting, thank you for the information. I may give it a shot at some point. I have one in a pot, but I'm a little scared to plant it out. 

4 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

I'd be extremely suspicious of anyone on Ebay offering up plants at that size, let alone saying they're tagged / were collected legally. Would be asking to see any and all paperwork before considering purchasing. Honestly, i'd purchase something like this from legit nurseries only.

Considering where you're located ..Texas, if i recall from past threads correctly? I'm not sure Y. brevifolia would survive there.. These are True desert plants that can take some heat, but, where they grow it is dry ..even drier than here in the low desert.   It also doesn't rain much -if at all- in the Mojave desert in Summer ...so they may dislike the wet summers in Texas ..Most of the state anyway.. 


If you do decide to pursue either offer ..or something else,  would follow Gene's idea to the T and plant in it's own spot, in a deep layer of nearly pure grit/gravel, if not slightly raised above the natural grade.  ..NO organic anything in the soil mix.  NO applying chemical fertilizers either. 

I have one I bought at a Las Vegas nursery that's tagged, it was pretty expensive, but it's potted. Just out of curiosity, why no fertilizers? 

I'm in Texas, yes, you have a good memory! I'm in Hill Country right outside of San Antonio, sort of on the border of humid and dryer Texas, but definitely much wetter than where you are, from what I've read. I haven't lived here all that long, so I don't know first hand. It's interesting that these plants are so sensitive to the moisture, it's too bad, they're beautiful. 

[Silas_Sancona]

2 minutes ago, fr8train said:

Interesting, thank you for the information. I may give it a shot at some point. I have one in a pot, but I'm a little scared to plant it out. 

I have one I bought at a Las Vegas nursery that's tagged, it was pretty expensive, but it's potted. Just out of curiosity, why no fertilizers? 

I'm in Texas, yes, you have a good memory! I'm in Hill Country right outside of San Antonio, sort of on the border of humid and dryer Texas, but definitely much wetter than where you are, from what I've read. I haven't lived here all that long, so I don't know first hand. It's interesting that these plants are so sensitive to the moisture, it's too bad, they're beautiful. 

Reason for  abstaining from using chemical fertilizers is they don't do well with it, despite what some people think.. Like most other Cacti / Succulent- types of plants ( inc. Agave and Yucca / other " Wood Lilies " )  these store what nutrients they pull from the soil / seasonal organic imput from herbaceous stuff that grows around them pretty efficiently, sipping those nutrients slowly.  When you baby them, by constantly feeding,  you weaken them, in most cases anyway..   My cacti get fertilized ( organic stuff only ) once every 2 years or so.. Don't think i've ever fertilized what yucca i have ..maybe tossing some Langbeinite ( Slow release, Organic source of K ) at them every so often.

With something that special, you want to do everything possible to be sure it will stay as healthy as possible. 

Texas heat / rainfall is definitely a different beast compared to here for sure, lol.. More so compared to where these grow.. If you have one, and it is doing ok, you might do alright with another.. so i definitely don't want to discourage your pursuit.  That said, if the new one you acquired  were going in the ground, i'd definitely place it where it will get some shade in the afternoons -to lessen any possible heat-related stress on it- if i were doing so  ..and definitely prep it's own planting area well.. Lots of drainage and raised a bit for sure..  Even with your rainfall, doing those two things might give you an edge. 

West TX ..roughly from where you're at and west would definitely be the best part of the state to try one than if you were any further south or east where there would be much less of a break from continuous heat / constant, oppressive humidity.

Here, you see Joshuas ..and the stiffer / shorter leaved form of it in some gardens, but even here, depending on what side of town you're located in, the non stop heat through the summer can beat them up a bit .  Comparing ones i've seen through the years, some at Desert Botanical, located near downtown Phoenix,  don't look quite as nice as specimens growing up at Boyce Thompson ..A well known ( and amazing ) garden located in the low foothills just west of Superior, east of where i'm located, ...roughly a little south and east of Phoenix proper.

Transition zone between the Mojave and Sonoran Deserts, up toward Bullhead City is the only area of the state where you can see both Joshua trees and Saguaro growing naturally.

  Jan Emming, a well known Desert plant Guru, has an amazing property up there called Destination Forever Ranch.. His blog is a great read.. https://janemming.com/

[Silas_Sancona]

26 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Reason for  abstaining from using chemical fertilizers is they don't do well with it, despite what some people think.. Like most other Cacti / Succulent- types of plants ( inc. Agave and Yucca / other " Wood Lilies " )  these store what nutrients they pull from the soil / seasonal organic imput from herbaceous stuff that grows around them pretty efficiently, sipping those nutrients slowly.  When you baby them, by constantly feeding,  you weaken them, in most cases anyway..   My cacti get fertilized ( organic stuff only ) once every 2 years or so.. Don't think i've ever fertilized what yucca i have ..maybe tossing some Langbeinite ( Slow release, Organic source of K ) at them every so often.

With something that special, you want to do everything possible to be sure it will stay as healthy as possible. 

Texas heat / rainfall is definitely a different beast compared to here for sure, lol.. More so compared to where these grow.. If you have one, and it is doing ok, you might do alright with another.. so i definitely don't want to discourage your pursuit.  That said, if the new one you acquired  were going in the ground, i'd definitely place it where it will get some shade in the afternoons -to lessen any possible heat-related stress on it- if i were doing so  ..and definitely prep it's own planting area well.. Lots of drainage and raised a bit for sure..  Even with your rainfall, doing those two things might give you an edge. 

West TX ..roughly from where you're at and west would definitely be the best part of the state to try one than if you were any further south or east where there would be much less of a break from continuous heat / constant, oppressive humidity.

Here, you see Joshuas ..and the stiffer / shorter leaved form of it in some gardens, but even here, depending on what side of town you're located in, the non stop heat through the summer can beat them up a bit .  Comparing ones i've seen through the years, some at Desert Botanical, located near downtown Phoenix,  don't look quite as nice as specimens growing up at Boyce Thompson ..A well known ( and amazing ) garden located in the low foothills just west of Superior, east of where i'm located, ...roughly a little south and east of Phoenix proper.

Transition zone between the Mojave and Sonoran Deserts, up toward Bullhead City is the only area of the state where you can see both Joshua trees and Saguaro growing naturally.

  Jan Emming, a well known Desert plant Guru, has an amazing property up there called Destination Forever Ranch.. His blog is a great read.. https://janemming.com/

Here's a couple ( of many, lol.. ) great articles discussing what the future may hold, and what things may have looked like for the species in the past. Text in the first article, from 2018,  is kind of faint for some reason, so it might be a little harder to read.  Last article is about a couple who got in a lot of trouble for digging up trees. The overall theme of species migration in response to their current habitat not being suitable in the future isn't restricted to just Joshua Trees either..  The iconic Saguaro in this part of the Southwest may be doing the same thing -heading north and west- in the future.

https://mojaveproject.org/dispatches-item/the-joshua-tree-myth-mutualism-and-survival/

https://www.hcn.org/blogs/goat/joshua-trees-on-the-move

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/29/us/joshua-trees-couple-fined/index.html

[GeneAZ]

There's a huge population of very blue Joshuas beginning just north of  Wickenburg, AZ, on the road to Kingman.  There's millions of them.  It's really spectacular to see since the road runs right through all of them.  It's just like an hour's drive north of Wickenburg.

[aztropic]

28 minutes ago, GeneAZ said:

There's a huge population of very blue Joshuas beginning just north of  Wickenburg, AZ, on the road to Kingman.  There's millions of them.  It's really spectacular to see since the road runs right through all of them.  It's just like an hour's drive north of Wickenburg.

I grew a dozen of those from seed to 5 gallon size. Couldn't wait to get rid of them! Some of the sharpest,stabiest,plants I've ever grown! 

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[jimmyt]

I have a couple planted at my place here NW of Waco, TX.  I have another in the ground as well. These were seed grown and kept in pots for several years then planted in natural rocky areas with little soil and poor water retention.  This one has been in the ground for several years including the freeze of 2021 when it went down to -2 F here.  It also has endured 10 F this year.  I have the weld wire around the base to keep the deer from pulling it up.  The deer won’t challenge the sharp spines.  It gets only watered by natural rain.  Our summers are hot and dry here in central TX.  The only concern I have is the dampness that can happen in our winters. 
The wise words of GeneAZ,  Silas_Sancona, and aztropic should be followed.   Those are cheap prices but steep shipping.  Make sure the plants are legal at least!
jimmyt

[Meangreen94z]

1 hour ago, jimmyt said:

I have a couple planted at my place here NW of Waco, TX.  I have another in the ground as well. These were seed grown and kept in pots for several years then planted in natural rocky areas with little soil and poor water retention.  This one has been in the ground for several years including the freeze of 2021 when it went down to -2 F here.  It also has endured 10 F this year.  I have the weld wire around the base to keep the deer from pulling it up.  The deer won’t challenge the sharp spines.  It gets only watered by natural rain.  Our summers are hot and dry here in central TX.  The only concern I have is the dampness that can happen in our winters. 
The wise words of GeneAZ,  Silas_Sancona, and aztropic should be followed.   Those are cheap prices but steep shipping.  Make sure the plants are legal at least!
jimmyt

Those appear to be Yucca elata

[Meangreen94z]

On 2/21/2023 at 12:25 PM, fr8train said:

That's interesting. Do Joshua Trees usually transplant well? 

If you’re in San Antonio I wouldn’t bother. I haven’t had success in the Austin area. They do ok during summer but can’t handle our wet winters. They are probably the least water tolerant Yucca there is

[jimmyt]

10 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

Those appear to be Yucca elata

Well the seeds were labeled Y. brevifolia.  So the chance are quite high that this some form of joshua tree.  I have also germinated, rostrata, and thompsoiana from seed.  My observation is that the species are quite difficult to tell apart at this stage.  And I have never grown elata from seed or plant.  I do agree that joshua trees would be a difficult grow for us here in central TX due to wet winters.  I have lost some, in all honesty, and I think that I have just been lucky thus far. 😌

[Silas_Sancona]

16 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

Those appear to be Yucca elata

Could be..  I don't recall seeing younger Joshuas where the leaves had any filaments..  Jimmy's doesn't look as "stringy" as some elata i see here though.

@jimmyt:  Here's a couple really young brevifolia for comparing to your specimen..  https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/149195757   https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/22638142

If the links work, you should be able to zoom in on the picture and see the tiny serrations along very stout leaf margins ( Link 1 esp. ), as well as the lack of stringy filaments.  Hard to say if yours is pure Y. elata, or not but could  be a cross of some sort, rather than a pure Joshua..



**** FYI:  For anyone looking for a trusted source for Joshua Tree seed, skip the crap shoot / scam- plagued ebay listings,  and purchase from a trusted source, such as the Theodore Payne Foundation, or Mojave Desert Land Trust's Seed Bank, both located in CA.

[Meangreen94z]

11 hours ago, jimmyt said:

Well the seeds were labeled Y. brevifolia.  So the chance are quite high that this some form of joshua tree.  I have also germinated, rostrata, and thompsoiana from seed.  My observation is that the species are quite difficult to tell apart at this stage.  And I have never grown elata from seed or plant.  I do agree that joshua trees would be a difficult grow for us here in central TX due to wet winters.  I have lost some, in all honesty, and I think that I have just been lucky thus far. 😌

Yeah, as Silas mentioned you can’t trust the internet. About 7 years ago I ordered 2 Joshua Tree ‘s from tyty nursery. The first indicator should have been a nursery in Georgia selling cultivated 2-3-4 foot specimen for unheard of prices. When no one else is even selling anything beyond seedlings or 3 gallon size. The second indicator was they called everything by nicknames. “ Joshua Tree” , “Spanish Dagger”,  “Brutus Dagger”, no where on their site did they list the actual species they were selling. Long story short they showed up and were hacked up Yucca Gloriosa. The email response was basically a shoulder shrug. They are still selling them on their website to this day.

[Meangreen94z]

10 hours ago, jimmyt said:

Well the seeds were labeled Y. brevifolia.  So the chance are quite high that this some form of joshua tree.  I have also germinated, rostrata, and thompsoiana from seed.  My observation is that the species are quite difficult to tell apart at this stage.  And I have never grown elata from seed or plant.  I do agree that joshua trees would be a difficult grow for us here in central TX due to wet winters.  I have lost some, in all honesty, and I think that I have just been lucky thus far. 😌

Yucca brevifolia is pretty distinct in appearance as a seedling . The  color blue or green are pretty much they only differences until they get bigger. There’s a few species that look similar to Yucca elata as a seedling(glauca, constricta, campestris, etc.) but based on the filament I’m saying elata.

[jimmyt]

Thanks for the pic links Nathan.  I will examine mine closer and compare features on each.  I also have another in the ground at a different spot and one still in a pot I can compare features against as well.  Maybe post some better pics next time to speed the ID and demystify the species….   

[Jubaea_James760]

Here's a natural one in my backyard 

Yucca brevifolia 

[Jubaea_James760]

The mother