Plumeria at 43ºN

[gurugu]

I planted this plumeria as a cutting 5/6 years ago in a small pot. I´ve had it indoors every winter, but it has not ever flowered. Last winter I left it out, under the eave of the house, on the south facing wall of the house, and it has bloomed for the first time. So all those theories about minimum temperatures required for them to set flowers haven´t worked for me.

The other bigger and older two frangipanis kept indoors all winter long, haven´t flowered yet. I had  a sprouted from seed one planted in the ground for 6 years but it didn´t bloom either. It wasn´t under an eave but pretty close to the house. I dug it out and planted in a big pot again. It´s doing ok.

By the way. Which variety is it?

 

[Silas_Sancona]

9 hours ago, gurugu said:

I planted this plumeria as a cutting 5/6 years ago in a small pot. I´ve had it indoors every winter, but it has not ever flowered. Last winter I left it out, under the eave of the house, on the south facing wall of the house, and it has bloomed for the first time. So all those theories about minimum temperatures required for them to set flowers haven´t worked for me.

The other bigger and older two frangipanis kept indoors all winter long, haven´t flowered yet. I had  a sprouted from seed one planted in the ground for 6 years but it didn´t bloom either. It wasn´t under an eave but pretty close to the house. I dug it out and planted in a big pot again. It´s doing ok.

By the way. Which variety is it?

 

Gonna be tough to nail down a 100% accurate ID unless the specimen it came from is labeled... Simply put, there are hundreds ( possibly more ) of named cultivars out there, and likely thousands of un- named seedlings ..so..

Some clues that might help " narrow " down that very long list include leaf size / shape.. & flower size/ shape ...and scent.

As far as the seedling plant, while the " 3-5 year to flower from seed " time frame is average,  is not uncommon for seedlings to take 7-9 years before they push their first flowers..   Likely, you will see an " attempt " at flowering, often referred to as " Nubbing " ...where the plant produces an inflo. that doesn't go on to flower, the year before the plant produces it's first successful flowering. With Plumeria, sometimes patience is key.

Highly encourage feeding all your plants w/ a slow release, high K ( K = Potassium ) fertilizer now, and again in October..  Plants that don't get enough K,  and/or too much PH ( PH = Phosphorus ), will take longer to flower, and/or start down the slow-at-first road of decline in overall health.

[gurugu]

14 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Gonna be tough to nail down a 100% accurate ID unless the specimen it came from is labeled... Simply put, there are hundreds ( possibly more ) of named cultivars out there, and likely thousands of un- named seedlings ..so..

Some clues that might help " narrow " down that very long list include leaf size / shape.. & flower size/ shape ...and scent.

As far as the seedling plant, while the " 3-5 year to flower from seed " time frame is average,  is not uncommon for seedlings to take 7-9 years before they push their first flowers..   Likely, you will see an " attempt " at flowering, often referred to as " Nubbing " ...where the plant produces an inflo. that doesn't go on to flower, the year before the plant produces it's first successful flowering. With Plumeria, sometimes patience is key.

Highly encourage feeding all your plants w/ a slow release, high K ( K = Potassium ) fertilizer now, and again in October..  Plants that don't get enough K,  and/or too much PH ( PH = Phosphorus ), will take longer to flower, and/or start down the slow-at-first road of decline in overall health.

As you say, it´s difficult to tell plumerias apart.

Do you think that plumerias blooming is more a question of fertilization or the mechanism of leaving them feel thirsty prior to start developing leaves again in spring? I say it because this one has been indoors for 2 years now and, all of a sudden, it has set a bud stalk, and it coincides with leaving it without water for a time . Many of them in the Canary Islands andin tropical countries are not watered at all, and they bloom profusely.

Other two taller and older ones, also indoors all winter long, and being well watered, haven´t.

Besides, I had to take them outdoors because they are very prone to all pests. Once outside, they have developed longer leaves and look healthier. I´ll play the same trick of cutting out watering for a time to see if they set buds, which, so far, haven´t.

 

[Silas_Sancona]

6 hours ago, gurugu said:

As you say, it´s difficult to tell plumerias apart.

Do you think that plumerias blooming is more a question of fertilization or the mechanism of leaving them feel thirsty prior to start developing leaves again in spring? I say it because this one has been indoors for 2 years now and, all of a sudden, it has set a bud stalk, and it coincides with leaving it without water for a time . Many of them in the Canary Islands andin tropical countries are not watered at all, and they bloom profusely.

Other two taller and older ones, also indoors all winter long, and being well watered, haven´t.

Besides, I had to take them outdoors because they are very prone to all pests. Once outside, they have developed longer leaves and look healthier. I´ll play the same trick of cutting out watering for a time to see if they set buds, which, so far, haven´t.

 

Would depend on how long you'd had the cuttings..  Many people forget that while a cutting may flower the year it is removed and re- rooted, they usually take a year or two off from flowering beyond that to gain enough energy again to resume normal growth..  May not be a factor in your circumstance, but something worth pointing  out..

Indoor grown specimens certainly do respond favorably to being placed outdoors, as well as being able to dry out a little more between watering outdoors..  That said, ..in the case of Plumeria rubra, and possibly Plumeria pudica anyway, plenty of specimens are grown in places where there really isn't a legitimate dry season and they flower well each year. 

Not out of the question species Plumeria, particularly those from the Caribbean Basin probably do respond more to the pronounced, yearly wet / dry cycle of the island(s) they grow on though.

[gurugu]

15 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Would depend on how long you'd had the cuttings..  Many people forget that while a cutting may flower the year it is removed and re- rooted, they usually take a year or two off from flowering beyond that to gain enough energy again to resume normal growth..  May not be a factor in your circumstance, but something worth pointing  out..

It´s odd, because the two biggest  and oldest ones I mention, haven´t ever set flowers despite being indoors. The first one (in the picture) has flowered after 5/6 years . The second one, has done it in its second year, and the ones grown from seed have never bloomed.

15 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Not out of the question species Plumeria, particularly those from the Caribbean Basin probably do respond more to the pronounced, yearly wet / dry cycle of the island(s) they grow on though.

One thing I´ve noticed is that, once they have set flowers, they like to be watered a lot , especially in summer. Flowers last longer if watered too.

[Silas_Sancona]

12 minutes ago, gurugu said:

It´s odd, because the two biggest  and oldest ones I mention, haven´t ever set flowers despite being indoors. The first one (in the picture) has flowered after 5/6 years . The second one, has done it in its second year, and the ones grown from seed have never bloomed.

One thing I´ve noticed is that, once they have set flowers, they like to be watered a lot , especially in summer. Flowers last longer if watered too.

Plants are weird, lol..  Know Plumeria growers that can get seedlings from a pod to flower in 2-3 years, while other seedlings from that same pod took 5-9 years to flower.. Have heard of seedlings that took 12 years as well.  One i have from seed took about 8 years. Hoping seedlings i started this year don't take half that long, lol.


Depends on the cultivar.. While most do like a good amount of water, esp. when flowering, there are some cultivars / species that actually flower better when grown drier  and will suffer stem rot, leaf drop, or other issues if kept too wet. Some also don't like compacted or heavy soil,  while others don't flinch in the same soil conditions.

[gurugu]

22 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Plants are weird, lol..  Know Plumeria growers that can get seedlings from a pod to flower in 2-3 years, while other seedlings from that same pod took 5-9 years to flower.. Have heard of seedlings that took 12 years as well.  One i have from seed took about 8 years. Hoping seedlings i started this year don't take half that long, lol.


Depends on the cultivar.. While most do like a good amount of water, esp. when flowering, there are some cultivars / species that actually flower better when grown drier  and will suffer stem rot, leaf drop, or other issues if kept too wet. Some also don't like compacted or heavy soil,  while others don't flinch in the same soil conditions.

To put it in a nutshell: plumeria are sheer anarchy. Lol! 

It's true: I've sometimes had cuttings get rot because of too much watering. But when they start setting new leaves, they love water, especially in hot weather. 

[Silas_Sancona]

2 minutes ago, gurugu said:

To put it in a nutshell: plumeria are sheer anarchy. Lol! 

It's true: I've sometimes had cuttings get rot because of too much watering. But when they start setting new leaves, they love water, especially in hot weather. 

Here you have to be really careful w/ watering new cuttings, even after they put on a that first full flush of new leaves..  two weeks ..or two months of 110F+ heat  can cook everything, even plants in containers tucked in a shaded area.. 

 Some cultivars are simply just horribly notorious rotters as well ..Cuttings from them just shrivel and rot, no matter how they are grown.  A few of my favorite cultivars included on that list.

Been using this PDF as a guide.. Noting all the notorious rotters / desert- level heat sensitive cultivars i'd had so much trouble with in the past:  https://atkinsonplumeria.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Plumeria-compilation-2020-v3.pdf
 

[gurugu]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Here you have to be really careful w/ watering new cuttings, even after they put on a that first full flush of new leaves..  two weeks ..or two months of 110F+ heat  can cook everything, even plants in containers tucked in a shaded area.. 

 Some cultivars are simply just horribly notorious rotters as well ..Cuttings from them just shrivel and rot, no matter how they are grown.  A few of my favorite cultivars included on that list.

Been using this PDF as a guide.. Noting all the notorious rotters / desert- level heat sensitive cultivars i'd had so much trouble with in the past:  https://atkinsonplumeria.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Plumeria-compilation-2020-v3.pdf
 

Thanks for that good information. It's very interesting. 

At least we don't have trouble with high temperatures as you in Arizona. Except for the last couple of weeks in which we have suffered a heatwave, but it is unusual here.