“There ain’t no Saguaro in Texas”

[Meangreen94z]

It was a common misconception in the past to see photos of Saguaro paired with “Texas”. They aren’t native here, leading to the phrase “There ain’t no Saguaro in Texas”. But I recently saw a posting of a nice size Saguaro with the vague description “ South Texas”. In my quest to find the location I found a number of large specimen, strangely all located in border towns. I thought I would share.Original photo in question, possibly just outside Zapata, TexasBetween Rio Grande City and Zapata, Texas Langtry, TexasLangtry, TexasLangtry, TexasLangtry, TexasLangtry, Texas

Langtry, TexasDryden, TexasSan Ygnacio, TexasSan Ygnacio, TexasSan Ygnacio, TexasSan Ygnacio, Texas

[Palmensammler]

All of an amazing size. For sure they don't get frost over there or do they?

[Meangreen94z]

  On 4/10/2022 at 8:18 AM, Palmensammler said:

All of an amazing size. For sure they don't get frost over there or do they?

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Some are in very mild areas, others like Langtry and Dryden can be harsh. I would like to go back and see how they survived the 2021 freeze.

[Xerarch]

  On 4/10/2022 at 8:18 AM, Palmensammler said:

All of an amazing size. For sure they don't get frost over there or do they?

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They get frost in native habitat, Tucson is 9a, I don’t think they like humid frost though. 

[richtrav]

There is also supposed to be an old one in the town of Candelaria north of Presidio. 

https://mapio.net/pic/p-85954240/

 

[SubTropicRay]

Super cool photos.  

[Meangreen94z]

  On 4/11/2022 at 6:21 AM, richtrav said:

There is also supposed to be an old one in the town of Candelaria north of Presidio. 

https://mapio.net/pic/p-85954240/

 

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Someone mentioned that one but I could never find a picture of it. Thanks.

 

 

[Austinpalm]

There were several in Harlingen back in2006.  Not sure if they are still there or not or how they handled last years winter.

http://www.palmsocietysouthtexas.org/meetings/PSST_Aug06_2.html

[Meangreen94z]

  On 4/11/2022 at 5:08 PM, Austinpalm said:

There were several in Harlingen back in2006.  Not sure if they are still there or not or how they handled last years winter.

http://www.palmsocietysouthtexas.org/meetings/PSST_Aug06_2.html

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Wow, thanks for posting those. Some huge Trichocereus mixed in.

[richtrav]

Here’s a higher-res shot. They were all saguaros as far as I can remember, mixed in with some other North American cacti.

It would be interesting to see if the saguaros native at the southern end of their range near the coast of southern Sonora are more tolerant of the climate of South Texas, it is wetter down there and they can get an occasional hurricane. It has a different look to it, almost like a green Pachycereus pringlei. 

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/96361815

[piping plovers]

  On 4/10/2022 at 3:26 AM, Meangreen94z said:

In my quest to find the location I found a number of large specimen, strangely all located in border towns. I thought I would share.

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Beautiful photography.  Amazing plants.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 4/11/2022 at 7:11 PM, richtrav said:

Here’s a higher-res shot. They were all saguaros as far as I can remember, mixed in with some other North American cacti.

It would be interesting to see if the saguaros native at the southern end of their range near the coast of southern Sonora are more tolerant of the climate of South Texas, it is wetter down there and they can get an occasional hurricane. It has a different look to it, almost like a green Pachycereus pringlei. 

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/96361815

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That' a good question.. Only thing i'd wonder is if Saguaro selected from that area, as juvenile specimens esp. would handle the nastier of the cold outbreaks S. TX can see since that section of Sonora / N. Sinaloa ranges from 10A to 12A, and rarely ( if ever ) sees temps below about 28f.  At least up this way they are exposed to cooler winters often enough to provide some flexability.

Heat, humidity, summer rainfall / Hurricane exposure matches up fairly well between both regions though.

From 2012  Plant Maps data, < likely warmer now >.



Checking Accuweather data from near Alamos, ( Sonora.. ) Coolest they saw this winter was 37 ( Below 40 for only 3 days between Jan- March of this year ) Last year, they experienced 6 days below 40, w/ the 28th of Feb. at 34 for the same period. 

 

[teddytn]

Wow!!!! All this has my heart palpitating!! 

[aabell]

Cool topic, thanks for sharing. I remember seeing some discussion about TX saquaros recently on one of the cacti or zone pushing fb groups. A few people there also expressed concern that the 2021 freeze could have been fatal for some of these guys. I hope not.

[ahosey01]

  On 4/12/2022 at 12:35 AM, aabell said:

Cool topic, thanks for sharing. I remember seeing some discussion about TX saquaros recently on one of the cacti or zone pushing fb groups. A few people there also expressed concern that the 2021 freeze could have been fatal for some of these guys. I hope not.

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I know for a fact that my town has seen 17F here in AZ and we have tons of many-hundred-year-old saguaros all over the place.  I'd bet they can handle brief dips to the low teens and keep growing after.  That is, however, brief and dry.  In TX, they get way different winter cold.

[Manalto]

Texas is a considerable piece of property for someone to claim the absence of a particular species, especially one (usually) so well-suited to the climate. If plants existed only where they're native, we'd have a very different landscape indeed. Besides, everyone knows "ain't" is a first-person contraction: (I) am not. Sheesh. 

Thanks for the terrific pictures. When I lived in the RGV in the early 2000s, the weird thing is I don't recall ever seeing saguaros, and I got around a fair bit. They're not exactly something that would escape one's notice.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Manalto

[amh]

  On 4/23/2022 at 2:04 PM, ahosey01 said:

I know for a fact that my town has seen 17F here in AZ and we have tons of many-hundred-year-old saguaros all over the place.  I'd bet they can handle brief dips to the low teens and keep growing after.  That is, however, brief and dry.  In TX, they get way different winter cold.

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The big problem is that Texas gets bad freezes and saguaro grow so slow. If you loose a nice specimen to a freeze, you probably will not live to see the replacement reach maturity. Can't buy a large saguaro at the local bigbox.

Edited April 24, 2022 by amh

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 4/24/2022 at 7:07 PM, amh said:

The big problem is that Texas gets bad freezes and saguaro grow so slow. If you loose a nice specimen to a freeze, you probably will not live to see the replacement reach maturity. Can't buy a large saguaro at the local bigbox.

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Another thing is Saguaro also grow under " Nurse Trees " ( and other bushes ) for the first several years of their lives to protect from both the cold, and extreme heat. Brief exposure to lows below 20F might not kill a mature specimen, but will likely kill small ones, same w/ extreme heat/ sun exposure at that stage..

Saguaro can survive for several years after being fatally damaged during a freeze as well before finally giving up..

Specimens in the pictures were likely transported from somewhere else at a certain size, vs. being grown from small plants.  That said, as long as any seedlings that are dispersed from these specimens are able to survive those less common extreme winters,  naturalized specimens could be observed in far southern and southwestern TX's future.

[amh]

  On 4/24/2022 at 8:57 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

Another thing is Saguaro also grow under " Nurse Trees " ( and other bushes ) for the first several years of their lives to protect from both the cold, and extreme heat. Brief exposure to lows below 20F might not kill a mature specimen, but will likely kill small ones, same w/ extreme heat/ sun exposure at that stage..

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That is why I always inspect the areas under mesquite trees. You can find some neat cactus and other rarities.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 4/24/2022 at 9:19 PM, amh said:

That is why I always inspect the areas under mesquite trees. You can find some neat cactus and other rarities.

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Mesquite/ other trees, ..any and all bushes, even if only a foot tall ..even tucked among or beside denser bunch grasses..  Always possible to find something interesting growing in the shade created below.

[richtrav]

  On 4/24/2022 at 7:07 PM, amh said:

The big problem is that Texas gets bad freezes and saguaro grow so slow. If you loose a nice specimen to a freeze, you probably will not live to see the replacement reach maturity. Can't buy a large saguaro at the local bigbox.

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If you can’t find one here they’re not that hard to buy in Arizona. In Arizona they can take pretty low temperatures. This is a large one in Bowie, Arizona, taken in early 2018. You can clearly see the effects of the 2011 freeze (2F).

 

[Xerarch]

  On 4/25/2022 at 4:18 AM, richtrav said:

If you can’t find one here they’re not that hard to buy in Arizona. In Arizona they can take pretty low temperatures. This is a large one in Bowie, Arizona, taken in early 2018. You can clearly see the effects of the 2011 freeze (2F).

 

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2F!

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 4/25/2022 at 1:26 PM, Xerarch said:

2F!

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Bowie sits in 8B, not too far from 8a which extends west from NM.. so experiencing temps below 15F aren't totally out of the question from time to time.. Curious about them hitting 2F though since the all time record low is supposedly 3F, set on Dec. 9, 1978.  With that in mind, doing some street view touring, couldn't find any other Saguaro.. though there were numerous large Washingtonia ( both sp ) present in both 2008 and 2021 images..

[richtrav]

It’s on Business 10 near Lincoln at an old hotel. There’s a dead robusta at the same hotel.

[amh]

  On 4/25/2022 at 7:56 PM, richtrav said:

It’s on Business 10 near Lincoln at an old hotel. There’s a dead robusta at the same hotel.

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What was the duration?

judging by the street views on the map, the dead robusta had a major growth spurt before dying. 

[amh]

Street view taken in 2021.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 4/26/2022 at 8:03 PM, amh said:

What was the duration?

judging by the street views on the map, the dead robusta had a major growth spurt before dying. 

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 You see the fat, likely filifera in an empty lot as well ( was some building present in 2008 imaging ) across from the Saguaro?..  Numerous other robusta of all sizes down other roads as well.

[amh]

  On 4/26/2022 at 8:20 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

 You see the fat, likely filifera in an empty lot as well ( was some building present in 2008 imaging ) across from the Saguaro?..  Numerous other robusta of all sizes down other roads as well.

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Looks like 7 filifera across the street. The '08 street views are blurry, but the shadows make overhead palm spotting easy.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 4/26/2022 at 8:30 PM, amh said:

Looks like 7 filifera across the street. The '08 street views are blurry, but the shadows make overhead palm spotting easy.

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Oct 2021 update image is clearer..  If you skip east across town, to the intersection of Business 10 and S. Truman Ave, then pan around / zoom in, more Washingtonia in view. Is a March '21 image as well.

[richtrav]

  On 4/26/2022 at 8:03 PM, amh said:

What was the duration?

judging by the street views on the map, the dead robusta had a major growth spurt before dying. 

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This is what the NCDC has. Data is missing from the 3rd. The town used to have some very large red gum eucalyptus easily visible from I-10, I wanted to go take some pictures of them. The damage to the saguaro is on the east side. 

[Meangreen94z]

I stopped by Langtry on a trip last weekend. The specimen at the Roy Bean museum are gone, replaced by native plants. It’s looks like the whole museum was renovated. The one across the street lives on though. I’m not sure what Langtry dropped to, but most likely single digits. Sanderson saw 5°F. There’s only minor burn evident on the growth point/tips. Flowers are growing from the area showing the minor burn, so the growth point is still alive.

[richtrav]

Langtry also dropped to 2F, following a snow and radiation freeze at the end of the cold outbreak. 

[Meangreen94z]

Here is another I found in Langtry. Somehow I missed it last time

[Meangreen94z]

And here is the specimen in Candelaria back in January.

[Xerarch]

Saw this one in Cotulla a few months ago 

[richtrav]

Very nice, I wonder why you don’t see more in Laredo. There are several in San Ygnacio. Before about the year 2000 there was a well-known Trichocereus terscheckii on Interstate 35 between Laredo and Cotulla. Reportedly it had been planted around the Depression and had survived the worst freezes of the 20th century but it collapsed sometime in the early 2000s. This was a picture from the 1990s.

In far South Texas the best saguaro type cactus is Neobuxbaumia polylopa, they can survive even in Brownsville. Eventually they’ll get so tall something usually knocks them down. The drier they’re grown the longer they usually last.

 

[Meangreen94z]

^I forgot that I stopped in San Ygnacio in September 

[Meangreen94z]

A few Neobuxbaumia polylopha survived single digits in San Antonio, Austin, and John Fairey Gardens near Hempstead. Most of the specimen that died toppled from the weight of accumulated ice/ freezing solid and shattered. They are pretty hardy.
 

Here is one I saw in San Antonio at Mission San Jose that survived the 2021 freeze

[fr8train]

  On 3/23/2023 at 6:13 AM, Meangreen94z said:

A few Neobuxbaumia polylopha survived single digits in San Antonio, Austin, and John Fairey Gardens near Hempstead. Most of the specimen that died toppled from the weight of accumulated ice/ freezing solid and shattered. They are pretty hardy.
 

Here is one I saw in San Antonio at Mission San Jose that survived the 2021 freeze

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Do you think Saguaro could make it in the San Antonio area? 

[Meangreen94z]

  On 5/1/2023 at 9:24 PM, fr8train said:

Do you think Saguaro could make it in the San Antonio area? 

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For a while but an event like 2021 would probably kill it, too much wet with extreme cold in SA. The juvenile sized specimen that are for sale aren’t as hardy as the large adult specimen I have pictured. There were pictures posted of a 10-12 foot specimen in San Antonio killed in 2021, I believe posted somewhere on palmtalk.

If you want a similar look, faster growth rate, and better record in wet cold look into Trichocereus terscheckii. Wrapping it in a tarp would be advisable in extreme cold, but they survived 2021 in Central Texas at a pretty good rate.