Dancy Tangerine Help

[JLM]

Usually these kinds of threads are about needing to save the tree, but this one is the opposite. Im actually concerned about the tree in a different way. It has flowered so much and now has so much baby fruit on it that im afraid it wont be able to handle the capacity as the fruit grows and matures. There has to be at least 5-10+ on each limb. Its absolute insanity. Is there a way to possibly support the tree and keep it from splitting? I should have a while before any affects would be visible, but by July i would need to either be sure that it wont just snap or that i have a way to keep it from doing that. I would estimate over 200 baby fruits as of right now, and there are more flowers that have yet to open.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 4/9/2022 at 3:47 AM, JLM said:

Usually these kinds of threads are about needing to save the tree, but this one is the opposite. Im actually concerned about the tree in a different way. It has flowered so much and now has so much baby fruit on it that im afraid it wont be able to handle the capacity as the fruit grows and matures. There has to be at least 5-10+ on each limb. Its absolute insanity. Is there a way to possibly support the tree and keep it from splitting? I should have a while before any affects would be visible, but by July i would need to either be sure that it wont just snap or that i have a way to keep it from doing that. I would estimate over 200 baby fruits as of right now, and there are more flowers that have yet to open.

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Depending on how big the tree is atm.. I myself would go through it and thin the fruit to a " reasonable " amount for the size of the tree.. Smaller = less fruit obviously..  Have done this w/  super- productive Meyer Lemons i held to roughly 8ft in height / 6ft in width w/ no issue.. heck, the fruit i left on that tree were actually bigger than fruit on another tree where i didn't do any thinning.

 Certainly possible the tree will thin itself as fruit develop also.. see Citrus do this all the time.   One thing you want to avoid is letting the tree put too much energy into fruit production, at the expense of energy put into growth ( so it can gain size < and support more fruit > )

[spike]

Picture?

[JLM]

  On 4/9/2022 at 5:40 PM, spike said:

Picture?

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Already working on that. Ill be getting pictures of everything today, its absolutely beautiful outside!

 

  On 4/9/2022 at 4:10 AM, Silas_Sancona said:

Depending on how big the tree is atm.. I myself would go through it and thin the fruit to a " reasonable " amount for the size of the tree.. Smaller = less fruit obviously..  Have done this w/  super- productive Meyer Lemons i held to roughly 8ft in height / 6ft in width w/ no issue.. heck, the fruit i left on that tree were actually bigger than fruit on another tree where i didn't do any thinning.

 Certainly possible the tree will thin itself as fruit develop also.. see Citrus do this all the time.   One thing you want to avoid is letting the tree put too much energy into fruit production, at the expense of energy put into growth ( so it can gain size < and support more fruit > )

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I may have to do that. Last summer it dropped a few fruits before they had time to mature. They got hit with the mower.

The problem i had two years ago was the tree was putting out a lot of top growth and not much fruit, now its the exact oppostite, although there seems to be more of a balance between fruit and branch production so far. The tree has filled in a lot of gaps this Spring that had no branches.

The location of this tree sucks, but it didnt when we planted it. That's usually how it goes though. Anyways, the reason why its location sucks is because the trees growing in the neighbor's yards behind us have gotten huge, so now our tangerine is growing at a slight angle instead of upright like its supposed to. The tree is too big to move now, so we will just have to deal with it.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 4/9/2022 at 5:50 PM, JLM said:

Already working on that. Ill be getting pictures of everything today, its absolutely beautiful outside!

 

I may have to do that. Last summer it dropped a few fruits before they had time to mature. They got hit with the mower.

The problem i had two years ago was the tree was putting out a lot of top growth and not much fruit, now its the exact oppostite, although there seems to be more of a balance between fruit and branch production so far. The tree has filled in a lot of gaps this Spring that had no branches.

The location of this tree sucks, but it didnt when we planted it. That's usually how it goes though. Anyways, the reason why its location sucks is because the trees growing in the neighbor's yards behind us have gotten huge, so now our tangerine is growing at a slight angle instead of upright like its supposed to. The tree is too big to move now, so we will just have to deal with it.

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The good thing about a Citrus variety like " Dancy " is you don't need to let it get huge for it to pay off production- wise.. so you could work with it  over time  to straighten it out a little more, and keep it at a reasonable height. Seen this with a lot of Citrus.. One year the might fruit like crazy, ..Following year, they might throw more growth, rather than quite as much fruit as the year prior.   Making sure the tree is getting balanced fert, w/ more emphasis on K rather than high N helps keep trees producing good growth, and good crops each year too..

As long as your neighbor's tree(s) aren't completely shading out yours, it should continue to produce just fine.. Have seen Oranges tucked between thick- canopied trees like Carob produce adequate amounts of fruit - for an Orange - Would think such a dense canopy from the other trees would shade the Orange too much. In that case at least, Orange seemed content, though it was a little slender and thin on the bottom.

[JLM]

Pics taken yesterday

[D Palm]

Nice looking tree! I usually thin my citrus when they are about a pea size.

[Silas_Sancona]

Agree, looks good.. 

I myself would take off some of the top though.. Want the width to equal whatever the height is as it grows.  Would also clear out the grass below it ..out to about 6" past the drip line.  Wouldn't be able to reach the fruit if it gets too tall anyway.

 

[Manalto]

I second SS's suggestion to clear a circle above the root zone. Besides competing for water and nutrients, some turfgrass can have an allelopathic effect on trees in the lawn. (In practice, I've seen dozens of healthy citrus with grass growing right up to the trunk, but I do wonder how much better they'd be doing with mulch instead. ) Clearing a circle will also eliminate the risk of damage to the trunk during mowing.

Citrus is often self-thinning but it's a good idea to reduce stress on the tree by further thinning, particularly when the tree is young.

[JLM]

I will look at it and see what limbs i should take off tomorrow. This is a very special tree now though, theres an active birds nest in there somehow despite all the bad wind we've had lately. I know ill have to take the nest out soon, i dont want to let the fruit get nasty later down the line, unless yall think it would be better to just leave it alone.

Edited April 20, 2022 by JLM

[Manalto]

I always give wildlife a pass in situations such as this. I figure they've got it tough enough competing with humans. Wiping out a generation could be damaging.

[JLM]

  On 4/20/2022 at 3:01 AM, Manalto said:

I always give wildlife a pass in situations such as this. I figure they've got it tough enough competing with humans. Wiping out a generation could be damaging.

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Seems like a good call, i dont mind the nest being there, and the fruit can always been cleaned off later when the nest is no longer active. The only thing i hate about it is the bird flies out whenever i come close to the tree and it scares the hell out of me every single time lol

[Manalto]

I'll bet it scares her (or him) more than it scares you.

[Silas_Sancona]

@JLM

Ok, so i did a ( very crude, lol ) " snapshot make up " of how i would do corrective pruning/ shaping it were my Dancy ( or similar type of Citrus )..

Red/ Light Blue = the shape you want to aim for.

Yellow dashed line = Remove all growth outside the dashed line(s)

Orange-ish color below the tree,  = where i'd expand the cut out / remove grass, and lay a good layer of Compost ..not mulch.  Obviously, a little tough to gauge exactly how wide you want that cut out to be from the picture, but to the drip line ( ..or just beyond it ) would be ideal.




As you can see, i marked what excess growth i'd remove, to bring the tree's shape into balance, as well as showing an idea of how far i'd come out with the cut out below the tree, as well as laying compost there..

Obviously,  this is just an idea,  but thought it might help you visualize how to prune ( ..if you haven't yet )... and avoid pruning too much..

Overall, tree looks great, just needs to be balanced / fill out a little more on the right side ( inside the Red / light Blue dashed line. ). This will help w/ being able to handle a good sized crop of fruit.

Hopefully this presents some helpful ideas..

[JLM]

  On 4/26/2022 at 4:21 AM, Silas_Sancona said:

@JLM

Ok, so i did a ( very crude, lol ) " snapshot make up " of how i would do corrective pruning/ shaping it were my Dancy ( or similar type of Citrus )..

Red/ Light Blue = the shape you want to aim for.

Yellow dashed line = Remove all growth outside the dashed line(s)

Orange-ish color below the tree,  = where i'd expand the cut out / remove grass, and lay a good layer of Compost ..not mulch.  Obviously, a little tough to gauge exactly how wide you want that cut out to be from the picture, but to the drip line ( ..or just beyond it ) would be ideal.




As you can see, i marked what excess growth i'd remove, to bring the tree's shape into balance, as well as showing an idea of how far i'd come out with the cut out below the tree, as well as laying compost there..

Obviously,  this is just an idea,  but thought it might help you visualize how to prune ( ..if you haven't yet )... and avoid pruning too much..

Overall, tree looks great, just needs to be balanced / fill out a little more on the right side ( inside the Red / light Blue dashed line. ). This will help w/ being able to handle a good sized crop of fruit.

Hopefully this presents some helpful ideas..

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This is a wonderful visualization. I have not done anything with it yet, just letting the baby fruits get to about pea size to see what i need to thin out. With the recent high winds from storms, some of the limbs are just hanging out. Im not entirely sure what part of the tree they come from, but it looks a little odd now lol

I will see about maybe pushing these limbs back where they were before providing they stay, if not they will probably be cut.

[JLM]

We now have about 4-5 baby birds in the nest. I love hearing them whenever their mother brings them food, its the most beautiful thing.

The only reason i ended up realizing there was babies in the nest was because the dog was running through the yard and ran into the bottom limb and shook the tree, the birds got really upset about it.

Cant wait to watch them grow! Ive never really been able to observe the growth of a bird before, so this is a new experience.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 4/30/2022 at 4:47 AM, JLM said:

We now have about 4-5 baby birds in the nest. I love hearing them whenever their mother brings them food, its the most beautiful thing.

The only reason i ended up realizing there was babies in the nest was because the dog was running through the yard and ran into the bottom limb and shook the tree, the birds got really upset about it.

Cant wait to watch them grow! Ive never really been able to observe the growth of a bird before, so this is a new experience.

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If they're either Mockingbirds or Blue Jays, watch out, lol.. they'll fiercely defend the nest until the kids have left.  We have a species of Thrasher ( Curve Billed ) that is almost as much of a terror when the babies try to leave the nest and end up in the yard..  Had two separate babies end up having to be rescued last year.

[JLM]

Ok so an update on the tree and the birds:

The first nest of birds was unfortunately cut short. Im not sure what caused it, but it appeared that the babies fell out of the nest prematurely, as they were running around finding hiding spots in the yard. Im pretty sure they all ended up flying in the end though.

The second nest was pretty unique, it was a large ball that had a hole in the front. Not sure what kind of bird builds these. This nest was successful.

The tree has been doing great. It had so much fruit on it that some limbs were sitting on the ground. So far i have counted approximately 220 tangerines, and there are still more left on the tree. I would estimate somewhere between 10-20 more. I have so much fruit that i dont even know what to do with it.

[JLM]

This tree was 100% defoliated following the Christmas freeze. I have never dealt with defoliated citrus before, so i have absolutely no clue what im looking for when it comes to signs of recovery. Temperatures will be in the 80's nearly all week this week possibly starting tomorrow. What are some signs that its recovering?

[Bill H2DB]

  Check closely ,  by bending a little ,   scraping a little   etc  to find where the living portions are .  Scraping will reveal some green beneath the bark , if it is there .

If it is frozen way down onto the main trunk , then  look closely to see where the tree was grafted / budded .  ( Most citrus is not on its own rootstock , and a suitable root stock is used , and the desired  Citrus  variety is grafted / budded on . ) There should be a faint line where this was done , about  6" or so above the ground .

Hopefully your plant is alive above this point . If it is , let it sprout as it wants there .   Do not let it sprout from the rootstock  below that , as that will almost certainly

not be a suitable variety .  Most times , it produces sour fruit , and is thorny to boot .

  In future freezes , protect the trunk of your plant well above this line .  Better to save that , than to try to save the entire tree , and lose it all .

  

[JLM]

  On 2/20/2023 at 9:18 PM, Bill H2DB said:

  Check closely ,  by bending a little ,   scraping a little   etc  to find where the living portions are .  Scraping will reveal some green beneath the bark , if it is there .

If it is frozen way down onto the main trunk , then  look closely to see where the tree was grafted / budded .  ( Most citrus is not on its own rootstock , and a suitable root stock is used , and the desired  Citrus  variety is grafted / budded on . ) There should be a faint line where this was done , about  6" or so above the ground .

Hopefully your plant is alive above this point . If it is , let it sprout as it wants there .   Do not let it sprout from the rootstock  below that , as that will almost certainly

not be a suitable variety .  Most times , it produces sour fruit , and is thorny to boot .

  In future freezes , protect the trunk of your plant well above this line .  Better to save that , than to try to save the entire tree , and lose it all .

  

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All of the main branches have some green underneath, most smaller branches had little or no green at all.

[Bill H2DB]

   Sounds like it will be ok .  Just wait it out now.....

[JLM]

It has been week at this point. An orange/white mold has developed on parts of the lower trunk. There are 2-3 new little shoots that are so tiny right now that im surprised i even saw them. They are just below where all the main branches come together. Signs of life have finally been seen! Wont be expecting any fruit for the next year or two.

[JLM]

Today was quite painful. I did another test on the bark to see how much was alive, as those small little shoots of growth are the only ones that ive gotten so far. Turn out, half of the main trunk is now dead, most of the main branches are now dead. I cut everything off that was dead, which was damn near the entire tree. Ill post a pic below.

[JLM]

One pic shows where the living and dead stuff is. The side of the trunk that faces the north is the dead side. South facing side is the green side. The other pic shows what's left of it. 

Edit: I am aware that some of those cuts were a little deep, regardless there would have been some green or at least some moisture content in the wound. There was neither.

Edited April 4, 2023 by JLM

[JLM]

A quick question: should I fertilize this tree? I plan to clear out a large ring of grass out from around it to give it some breathing room.

[JLM]

The new growth ended up getting sun burn, ill give it till the end of May to show new growth beyond the sun burnt stuff. If it doesnt show any by the end of May, its coming out of the ground 😕

I also ended up buying a new tree, its another tangerine. Its the "Satsuma Mandarin" variety. Im quite excited for this, as it certainly sounds like it might be a better fit for this area than the Dancy was. Im struggling to find a good spot for it. I dont want it near the same spot as the other one, since that one was growing away from the trees behind the fence. This will probably go in the ground this weekend, ill just have really think about a good spot.