Should I Be Worried?

[Butch]

This year a neighbor, that I don't know, (diagonally behind me) planted, what I think is a Brazilian Pepper Tree in his backyard... It is about 2-3' away from my slumpstone wall... I have a poured concrete slab and BBQ area in that corner, and an in-ground swimming pool about 15' away... I searched the forum about pepper trees, and saw Tracy and others that had major problems with this tree... I'm worried about  my wall, slab and eventually pool... Not to mention the litter and berry stains/mess... There are electrical lines going right over it, and I know it will eventually cause problems there... I don't know if the two other neighbors (one with a pool closer than mine) in this corner realize the potential problem....  Do I have concern?... 1st off is this a pepper tree?..

I have never had any contact with the neighbor (Because of the 6-1/2' wall, and I would have to walk around the block to talk to him) and would hate to have our 1st interaction as a conflict or complaint... It just doesn't seem neighborly... Should I worry?... Do I have the right to ask him to remove it?.. Or point out the wall and overhead power line issues?... Thanks for any suggestions, and confirming the tree ID...

Butch

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 6/21/2021 at 3:19 PM, Butch said:

This year a neighbor, that I don't know, (diagonally behind me) planted, what I think is a Brazilian Pepper Tree in his backyard... It is about 2-3' away from my slumpstone wall... I have a poured concrete slab and BBQ area in that corner, and an in-ground swimming pool about 15' away... I searched the forum about pepper trees, and saw Tracy and others that had major problems with this tree... I'm worried about  my wall, slab and eventually pool... Not to mention the litter and berry stains/mess... There are electrical lines going right over it, and I know it will eventually cause problems there... I don't know if the two other neighbors (one with a pool closer than mine) in this corner realize the potential problem....  Do I have concern?... 1st off is this a pepper tree?..

I have never had any contact with the neighbor (Because of the 6-1/2' wall, and I would have to walk around the block to talk to him) and would hate to have our 1st interaction as a conflict or complaint... It just doesn't seem neighborly... Should I worry?... Do I have the right to ask him to remove it?.. Or point out the wall and overhead power line issues?... Thanks for any suggestions, and confirming the tree ID...

Butch

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Think that is what everyone knows as California Pepper ( Schinus molle )  rather than Brazilian Pepper ( Smaller leaves, kind of look like Honey Mesquite on CA. Pepper.  Individual Leaflets on Brazilian Pepper are larger, spaced closer together ) ..  Regardless, 

Tough call regarding a discussion w/ your neighbor about it.. As you'll see in pictures on the web, These generally get far bigger than the B. P. 's w/ a much more massive trunk.. Have seen specimens that grew in tight spots w/ out doing much damage to surrounding Concrete/ Asphalt,  but,  ..have seen plenty where it was obvious the roots were lifting / cracking  such surfaces.. ..and/or getting tangled a bit in overhead lines. 

From the picture, looks, to me at least, as though your neighbor planted it real close to your block wall, ..which could spell trouble later.  Like these trees, but they need space. Not something to plant in tight spaces or close to ..walls, lol. 

The other thing is these can drop a lot of seed, almost year round.  On the other hand, these are supposedly dioecious ( individual trees are either male / female ) so unless there is another tree -of the opposite sex of this one ( when it starts flowering ) nearby-, you may not have to deal with fruits/ seeds at all.

If you see them, i myself might have a general discussion w/ your neighbor, and work in a conversation about the tree but again, not all neighbors are -neighborly- when it comes to any sort of conversation.

[Butch]

  On 6/21/2021 at 3:55 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

Think that is what everyone knows as California Pepper ( Schinus molle )  rather than Brazilian Pepper ( Smaller leaves, kind of look like Honey Mesquite on CA. Pepper.  Individual Leaflets on Brazilian Pepper are larger, spaced closer together ) ..  Regardless, 

Tough call regarding a discussion w/ your neighbor about it.. As you'll see in pictures on the web, These generally get far bigger than the B. P. 's w/ a much more massive trunk.. Have seen specimens that grew in tight spots w/ out doing much damage to surrounding Concrete/ Asphalt,  but,  ..have seen plenty where it was obvious the roots were lifting / cracking  such surfaces.. ..and/or getting tangled a bit in overhead lines. 

From the picture, looks, to me at least, as though your neighbor planted it real close to your block wall, ..which could spell trouble later.  Like these trees, but they need space. Not something to plant in tight spaces or close to ..walls, lol. 

The other thing is these can drop a lot of seed, almost year round.  On the other hand, these are supposedly dioecious ( individual trees are either male / female ) so unless there is another tree -of the opposite sex of this one ( when it starts flowering ) nearby-, you may not have to deal with fruits/ seeds at all.

If you see them, i myself might have a general discussion w/ your neighbor, and work in a conversation about the tree but again, not all neighbors are -neighborly- when it comes to any sort of conversation.

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Thank you for the response... There is another  very large pepper tree In one of the other adjacent neighbors yards, but it is in the middle of his yard,  well away from any one one else, and I have plenty in the neighborhood.. Some are massive and that's what raised my concern... I live on a very long block, and think that just a casual encounter would be very unlikely... I probably would just have to go up and knock on his door... Which, I think would be mildly confrontational, and put them on the defense... That's not what I want, but may be the only way to get the tree removed... Oh, well...

Butch 

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 6/21/2021 at 4:20 PM, Butch said:

Thank you for the response... There is another  very large pepper tree In one of the other adjacent neighbors yards, but it is in the middle of his yard,  well away from any one one else, and I have plenty in the neighborhood.. Some are massive and that's what raised my concern... I live on a very long block, and think that just a casual encounter would be very unlikely... I probably would just have to go up and knock on his door... Which, I think would be mildly confrontational, and put them on the defense... That's not what I want, but may be the only way to get the tree removed... Oh, well...

Butch 

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I hear ya.. Never an easy way to approach such a conversation..  Would take pictures to document how things look ( on your side ) now,  vs. once the tree is bigger and starts creating problems - if it does- though, just in case they're needed later..  Hopefully the neighbor is smart and irrigates the tree in a manner that encourages it to form the deepest root system possible, rather than the opposite.
 

[NOT A TA]

Go talk to the neighbor, nicely. Nothing to lose since you have no relationship with them at this point and probably wouldn't in the future anyway. Explain that you're a plant person familiar with the growth habits of the tree and suggest they remove it now while it's cheap (for them) to prevent the possibility of damage to the wall or pools.

[ColdBonsai]

While I know nothing about this tree and its roots, you can solve part of the the debris problem by pruning off anything that crosses into your property.  May even encourage the tree to grow the other direction. Maybe not. But at least it won't drop as much litter into your yard.

[Tomas]

From my experience, they will get huge and also prety soon. They also will drop at any time something, flowers, leaves and fruits, the branches grow downwards like willows, so once you trim them these will be on your head again  in few weeks. Also, if watered superficially (that happens when there ia a lawn with spriklers), the trees will make shallow roots and can topple. Here in Italy I would go to the neighbour and tell him all this asking if he knows what kind of tree he had planted.

Here all trees that make trunk more than 25 cm MUST be planted at least 3 meter from the propriety border

Good luck

Tomas

[Butch]

Thanks guys... I'm not a confrontational guy, but this looks to be a problem that won't solve it's self.. Man, I wish there was another way of doing this...

Butch

[Paradise Found]

Legally you don't have the right to tell him what to plant or remove. It's his home and yard not yours, and thats a fact Jack.  All you can do is educate him about the tree and see what he says. You can see if he will let you help him to move it to another location away from the property line.  Who knows he might surprise you and want to take it down himself after you tell him how bad his own yard will look.

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Paradise Found

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 6/27/2021 at 4:39 PM, Paradise Found said:

Legally you don't have the right to tell him what to plant or remove. It's his home and yard not yours, and thats a fact Jack.  All you can do is educate him about the tree and see what he says. 

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That means the neighbor can pay for any and all damages the tree causes too.  Less than properly informed decisions,  real world consequences..

[Paradise Found]

  On 6/27/2021 at 4:47 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

That means the neighbor can pay for any and all damages the tree causes too.  Less than properly informed decisions,  real world consequences..

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If the leave and and dropping land on Butches yard it up to him to remove it not the neighbors, but Butch can cut any thing overhanging on his side.  He needs to educate him about how bad and dangerous it is to have the tree where its at, But in a nice way. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Paradise Found

[Butch]

Yea, I realize he can (and should be able to), legally, do what he wants in his own yard... I like that we all have these personal freedoms and liberties... And that is what makes going up to them and asking them to move/or remove the tree so difficult... I feel like I'm trying to infringe on his rights... If I could do it without making seem so confrontational... You know, just one neighbor to another... But with us having no contact other than this, it just doesn't seem neighborly...

Short history on a past incident... I had a cabin in Big Bear CA,  that had a large pine tree (Over 100' tall and probably 8' in diameter)... The tree was leaning towards a neighbors cabin, and he told me I had to take it down... I understood his concern, as he had had his cabin demolished by a falling tree once before... These trees are all many hundreds of years old and stood and have been leaning well before any of the cabins had been built.. You can not touch these huge monsters with out the city's permission (They are protected)... I told the neighbor that... But if he got the city's OK, that it would be alright with me for HIM to pay to have it removed.. He wanted ME to pay, so he went to the City (He knew somebody) and had them send me a notice to remove the tree (Citing a law pertaining to PUBLIC property/safety)... I sent the city back a letter that the tree didn't impact PUBLIC safety, just PRIVATE property/safety and if they gave the OK, that I would let the neighbor remove the tree.. Later, I reiceved another letter stating the city had changed the law to include private property as well as public... All well after this whole incident.. HE knew somebody... I don't rember the cost, but it wasn't cheap for ME to pay to have it removed..

So I have a little simpathy for my neighbor with the pepper tree... But I will pay (or do it my self) to have it removed, unlike the neighbor in the Big Bear incident...

Butch

[JohnAndSancho]

Show up with bbq. It's hard to be mad when someone brings ribs. 

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 6/28/2021 at 5:31 PM, JohnAndSancho said:

Show up with bbq. It's hard to be mad when someone brings ribs. 

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Unless we're well acquainted ..the closest you'll get any of my BBQ is being tortured by the scent wafting over the fence / through the neighborhood.  

Only use Mesquite, ( or Allspice if prepping something special ).. Gas / bagged briquettes are forbidden .

[JohnAndSancho]

  On 6/28/2021 at 7:14 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

Only use Mesquite, ( or Allspice if prepping something special ).. Gas / bagged briquettes are forbidden .

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I won't tell Hank Hill. 

[Butch]

  On 6/28/2021 at 5:31 PM, JohnAndSancho said:

Show up with bbq. It's hard to be mad when someone brings ribs. 

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Funny you should say... My two Kamados are about 3-4' from that offending tree... Right next to the wall.. I will be doing 4-bone in pork butts (pulled pork) and 2-packer cut briskets Saturday evening, for our 4th of July party... Usely about 55-60# of meat, depending on the size of the cuts... Only  lump charcoal, with a little cherry wood thrown in to add color and sweeten the meat... I'm sure the smell will drift his way... Maybe I should save him a couple of chunks........

Butch

 

[JohnAndSancho]

  On 6/28/2021 at 8:26 PM, Butch said:

Funny you should say... My two Kamados are about 3-4' from that offending tree... Right next to the wall.. I will be doing 4-bone in pork butts (pulled pork) and 2-packer cut briskets Saturday evening, for our 4th of July party... Usely about 55-60# of meat, depending on the size of the cuts... Only  lump charcoal, with a little cherry wood thrown in to add color and sweeten the meat... I'm sure the smell will drift his way... Maybe I should save him a couple of chunks........

Butch

 

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It'll def help to grease the wheels 

[Tracy]

  On 6/27/2021 at 3:53 PM, Butch said:

Thanks guys... I'm not a confrontational guy, but this looks to be a problem that won't solve it's self.. Man, I wish there was another way of doing this...

Butch

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Hi Butch, I understand that you don't want to be confrontational, so focus on the education aspect.  I'm familiar with the California Peppers as they are pretty commonly planted around here but definitely different than the Brazilian Peppers (like my neighbor has).  Someone else pointed out how they will get very large over time and they are fast growers, which translates to frequent trimming.  Rather than asking the neighbor to take it out, perhaps just educating him on these facts, encouraging the deep watering and advising that due to it's proximity to your patio and the messes these create it will be a maintenance issue for you as well as for him on his side.  If there are power lines overhead pointing that out would be worthwhile as well.  Are the power lines just the ones from the pole to someones house or are they pole to pole which are maintained by SCE or maybe LA DWP in La Mirada?  Pointing out that they will be coming by and doing hack jobs might make him/her reconsider as well.

My neighbor with the Brazilian Pepper wouldn't have planted it if she and her husband knew the problems and mess it creates and it is their tenant in the auxiliary dwelling unit (ADU) that complains when I trim it.  So if I lived here way back when they planted it and shared with them some other suggestions for trees, my neighbor might have appreciated the information.  That said, I have a friend a block away that has two California Peppers in his front yard and absolutely loves them, but he does keep them nicely thinned and more lacy which does help with some of the litter drop.  I don't know enough about the California Pepper trees to know if the seed is as invasive as the Brazilian Peppers, but I don't see the volunteers around them like I do when I see the Brazilian Peppers.

One thing to consider is it will be less confrontational if you meet them now then if you wait until the problem is literally in full bloom.  Also when branches start coming across into your air space and you trim them, it won't be a surprise and he will understand that you don't want the mess on your deck and pool.  An ounce of preventative medicine, although bitter, may go down better than waiting until radiation and chemo are necessary to do the job.

[Butch]

Thanks Tracy... You and everyone else are correct about the way to handle this.. Any one volunteering to do it for me?... Just kidding... I just have step up and do it.. It's just that I hate confrontation.... One way to get me to to do it, is to get me POed... Then I over do it (Redhead temper)... Don't need that...

Butch