Bamboo with big leaves for Central Florida?

[Merlyn]

As part of my massive overhaul of the yard, I planted Viburnum hedges around the entire backyard perimeter.  These were 1G plants in the spring of 2018 and are over 6' tall now.  I cut them back to about 5' to help increase "bushiness."  My main reason for the viburnum was for highway noise, and I think it'll do a pretty good job overall.  However, I've noticed that there's a lot of noise coming from 2 or 3 specific spots, basically bouncing between the backyard neighbor's houses.  Here's my current list of 3G plants:

• Bambusa Eutuldoides Viridi-Vittata (Asian Lemon) - 25' tall, 1" diameter culms, 21F hardy, tight clumper with slightly spreading top, good low branching, fast grower, but very small Textilis-type leaves
• Bambusa Guangxienis (Chinese Dwarf) - 18' tall, 1" culms, 24-28F hardy, rapid growth full size in <18 months, medium sized 2x6-8" leaves, dense low branching, great hedge
• Bambusa Lako (Black Timber/Timor) - 30-45' tall, 2-3" culms, 27-30F hardy and burns to the ground @ 25F, bigger 1.5x6-10" leaves, no branches under 6', very bushy top, fast growth
• Bambusa Maligensis (Seabreeze) - 35-55' tall, 2.5" culms, 18F hardy, lots of low branching for good hedge density, mature clump in <5 years, small leaves but better noise reduction than Textilis/Multiplex types due to very high culm density and low branching.
• Bambusa Tuldoides "Swollen Internode," - 18' tall, 2.5" culms, 15F hardy, smaller textilis-type leaves but reliably swollen "bellies" in a cold-hardy type.  Probably not a good noise screen.
• Bambusa Vulgaris Wamin "Buddha Belly" & Striata - 7-18' tall, 3" culms, big 1.5x6-12" leaves for a small bamboo, very dense top growth.  Good sound damping.

I'm planning on using Asian Lemon and Seabreeze for one of the openings because they grow pretty dense, despite their relatively small leaves.  At a local bamboo nursery they seemed to have pretty good noise reduction on a guy using a leaf blower.  Most of the other common Bambusa they had growing did basically nothing to the leaf blower noise.  Bambusa Dolichomerithalla, a couple of Multiplex types, Textilis Gracilis and Kanapaha, Oldhamii, Ventricosa, Vulgaris Vittatta and Chungii basically did nothing to the leaf blower noise, even with some that were pretty mature clumps.  I suspect this is because the small, thin leaves just don't absorb or scatter noise well.  Sound waves just go around the culms, so the damping is mostly from the leaves.  Everything I've read on vegetation and noise blocking says you want a large, thick, waxy leaf to absorb sound.

I have two spots for "big" bamboo in the 50-60 foot tall range, and am looking at some of the Dendrocalamus types due to their large leaf size.  Right now I'm considering Brandisii "Black" (60' 5" dia); Dianxiensis (50-70' 4" dia); Giganteus Variegatus "Tortuga" (30' ??); Hamiltonii "Red Shoot" (50' 3" dia); Latiflorus (60' 4" dia); Maximuslamina (50-65' 10-12" dia?); Minor Amoenus "Ghost/Angel Mist"  (25-35' 3" dia); Validus (45' 4" dia).  Supposedly Dianxiensis, Latiflorus and Maximuslamina have the biggest leaves, some reaching 4" wide x 15-20" long. 

My big concern is the variability of size.  TropicalBamboo says Latiflorus is 60' and 4" diameter, but other websites and BambooWeb's spec list shows it at 65' and a whopping 8" diameter!  TropicalBamboo has Haliltonii at 50' and 3" diameter, but BambooWeb shows it as 80' and 7" diameter.  There's a world of difference in culm size and weight between the two. 

After my long-winded explanation, I guess it comes down to a couple of questions:

• Does anyone have experience with some of the bigger Dendros like the ones mentioned above? 
• Do they actually get that huge in FL, or is Latiflorus really a 50-60' 4" diameter boo?
• Any other "big leaf" suggestions for a borderline 9b/9a area?  Most Bambusa, Dendrocalamus and Gigantochloa seem to do well here in the heat and humidity.

[Silas_Sancona]

3 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

As part of my massive overhaul of the yard, I planted Viburnum hedges around the entire backyard perimeter.  These were 1G plants in the spring of 2018 and are over 6' tall now.  I cut them back to about 5' to help increase "bushiness."  My main reason for the viburnum was for highway noise, and I think it'll do a pretty good job overall.  However, I've noticed that there's a lot of noise coming from 2 or 3 specific spots, basically bouncing between the backyard neighbor's houses.  Here's my current list of 3G plants:

• Bambusa Eutuldoides Viridi-Vittata (Asian Lemon) - 25' tall, 1" diameter culms, 21F hardy, tight clumper with slightly spreading top, good low branching, fast grower, but very small Textilis-type leaves
• Bambusa Guangxienis (Chinese Dwarf) - 18' tall, 1" culms, 24-28F hardy, rapid growth full size in <18 months, medium sized 2x6-8" leaves, dense low branching, great hedge
• Bambusa Lako (Black Timber/Timor) - 30-45' tall, 2-3" culms, 27-30F hardy and burns to the ground @ 25F, bigger 1.5x6-10" leaves, no branches under 6', very bushy top, fast growth
• Bambusa Maligensis (Seabreeze) - 35-55' tall, 2.5" culms, 18F hardy, lots of low branching for good hedge density, mature clump in <5 years, small leaves but better noise reduction than Textilis/Multiplex types due to very high culm density and low branching.
• Bambusa Tuldoides "Swollen Internode," - 18' tall, 2.5" culms, 15F hardy, smaller textilis-type leaves but reliably swollen "bellies" in a cold-hardy type.  Probably not a good noise screen.
• Bambusa Vulgaris Wamin "Buddha Belly" & Striata - 7-18' tall, 3" culms, big 1.5x6-12" leaves for a small bamboo, very dense top growth.  Good sound damping.

I'm planning on using Asian Lemon and Seabreeze for one of the openings because they grow pretty dense, despite their relatively small leaves.  At a local bamboo nursery they seemed to have pretty good noise reduction on a guy using a leaf blower.  Most of the other common Bambusa they had growing did basically nothing to the leaf blower noise.  Bambusa Dolichomerithalla, a couple of Multiplex types, Textilis Gracilis and Kanapaha, Oldhamii, Ventricosa, Vulgaris Vittatta and Chungii basically did nothing to the leaf blower noise, even with some that were pretty mature clumps.  I suspect this is because the small, thin leaves just don't absorb or scatter noise well.  Sound waves just go around the culms, so the damping is mostly from the leaves.  Everything I've read on vegetation and noise blocking says you want a large, thick, waxy leaf to absorb sound.

I have two spots for "big" bamboo in the 50-60 foot tall range, and am looking at some of the Dendrocalamus types due to their large leaf size.  Right now I'm considering Brandisii "Black" (60' 5" dia); Dianxiensis (50-70' 4" dia); Giganteus Variegatus "Tortuga" (30' ??); Hamiltonii "Red Shoot" (50' 3" dia); Latiflorus (60' 4" dia); Maximuslamina (50-65' 10-12" dia?); Minor Amoenus "Ghost/Angel Mist"  (25-35' 3" dia); Validus (45' 4" dia).  Supposedly Dianxiensis, Latiflorus and Maximuslamina have the biggest leaves, some reaching 4" wide x 15-20" long. 

My big concern is the variability of size.  TropicalBamboo says Latiflorus is 60' and 4" diameter, but other websites and BambooWeb's spec list shows it at 65' and a whopping 8" diameter!  TropicalBamboo has Haliltonii at 50' and 3" diameter, but BambooWeb shows it as 80' and 7" diameter.  There's a world of difference in culm size and weight between the two. 

After my long-winded explanation, I guess it comes down to a couple of questions:

• Does anyone have experience with some of the bigger Dendros like the ones mentioned above? 
• Do they actually get that huge in FL, or is Latiflorus really a 50-60' 4" diameter boo?
• Any other "big leaf" suggestions for a borderline 9b/9a area?  Most Bambusa, Dendrocalamus and Gigantochloa seem to do well here in the heat and humidity.

My only experience w/ any of the Big Boo.. so to say in Florida was while attending a Redlands Orchid Festival event at Spice Park.. While there, i sniffed around the park it self a bit. Had a nice area of bamboos on display, inc one of the giant Dendrocalamus if i remember correctly,  anyway.. extremely impressive sight / experience walking through the grove but not nearly as dense, foliage-wise as i'd had thought it might be.. Could hear sounds from where the festival was going on nearby. Still, the sound of a breeze blowing through the culms was enjoyable.

While it doesn't get anywhere as big ..maybe 15ft tops and ..for some strange reason.. isn't easy to find anywhere in the states ( should be ), if you can find Tiger Grass, Thysanolaena maxima it might help out w/ the sound issue, especially if you planted something of shorter height.. but with dense foliage either in front or centered in between clumps of it. Clumper, fast growing.. pretty big leaves as well.  Have seen it offered at some of the Bamboo places i'd known of in/around the Tampa Bay Area a few years ago.  If i have to, i may buy back a bunch i planted for a neighbor back in California if i can't find it anywhere else once back there.. 

[Merlyn]

16 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

My only experience w/ any of the Big Boo.. so to say in Florida was while attending a Redlands Orchid Festival event at Spice Park.. While there, i sniffed around the park it self a bit. Had a nice area of bamboos on display, inc one of the giant Dendrocalamus if i remember correctly,  anyway.. extremely impressive sight / experience walking through the grove but not nearly as dense, foliage-wise as i'd had thought it might be.. Could hear sounds from where the festival was going on nearby. Still, the sound of a breeze blowing through the culms was enjoyable.

While it doesn't get anywhere as big ..maybe 15ft tops and ..for some strange reason.. isn't easy to find anywhere in the states ( should be ), if you can find Tiger Grass, Thysanolaena maxima it might help out w/ the sound issue, especially if you planted something of shorter height.. but with dense foliage either in front or centered in between clumps of it. Clumper, fast growing.. pretty big leaves as well.  Have seen it offered at some of the Bamboo places i'd known of in/around the Tampa Bay Area a few years ago.  If i have to, i may buy back a bunch i planted for a neighbor back in California if i can't find it anywhere else once back there.. 

A lot of the taller boos have essentially no branches below 1/3, which is why I ruled out ones like B. Oldhamii and Kanapaha.  The culms are neat by themselves, but they don't seem to do very much for blocking sound.  Probably the "sound critical spots" will be filled with ones in the 30' height range.  There's a 6' fence on the property line, and the critical height for branches seems to be up to about the height of the neighbor's houses.  Anything with big leaves and decent lower branching in the 6-30' range would be ideal for those spots.

I guess I should have phrased it better on the "giant boos."  They are in non-sound-critical spots, and I have about 60' of straight "drop zone" for easy pruning of old canes.  But if the culms are 8-10" in diameter it only takes a few to make a monstrous clump that'll be tough to control or prune.  So I have to either look for something in the 60' x 4" range, or a short-and-stout type like the D. Giganteus Tortuga that is supposedly a dwarfed (in height) version of Giganteus.

The Thysanolaena looks almost exactly like the Bambusa Guangxiensis, and about the same size too!  Kew lists it as "latifolia" instead of "maxima," fwiw.  They say up to 13' tall with 12-24" long, 1-3" wide leaves.  That would make a good low filler for some spots, thanks for the info!  I found seeds easily, but no actual plants for sale.

[Silas_Sancona]

6 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:

A lot of the taller boos have essentially no branches below 1/3, which is why I ruled out ones like B. Oldhamii and Kanapaha.  The culms are neat by themselves, but they don't seem to do very much for blocking sound.  Probably the "sound critical spots" will be filled with ones in the 30' height range.  There's a 6' fence on the property line, and the critical height for branches seems to be up to about the height of the neighbor's houses.  Anything with big leaves and decent lower branching in the 6-30' range would be ideal for those spots.

I guess I should have phrased it better on the "giant boos."  They are in non-sound-critical spots, and I have about 60' of straight "drop zone" for easy pruning of old canes.  But if the culms are 8-10" in diameter it only takes a few to make a monstrous clump that'll be tough to control or prune.  So I have to either look for something in the 60' x 4" range, or a short-and-stout type like the D. Giganteus Tortuga that is supposedly a dwarfed (in height) version of Giganteus.

The Thysanolaena looks almost exactly like the Bambusa Guangxiensis, and about the same size too!  Kew lists it as "latifolia" instead of "maxima," fwiw.  They say up to 13' tall with 12-24" long, 1-3" wide leaves.  That would make a good low filler for some spots, thanks for the info!  I found seeds easily, but no actual plants for sale.

True.. like you said, its that 6-25-ish ft height "area" that would be critical for filling w/ something dense that will reduce background noise..  Yea, lol.. i'd be a bit nervous with trimming something 50+ft in height, with culms that are 8 or 10" in width.. Thats a potential whole lotta mess if something goes wrong, even if you have plenty of space.. Think you have the right idea looking into  Bamboo that produces culms in the 4-6" range. More easy to manage if/when needed.. Stout but wider culmed species might be interesting as well.. 

Have seen the species end of Tiger Grass flipped back and forth depending on the source, some say maxima is the older.. others, it's latifolia  thats the old species name..  think i have only seen it offered by that name once some time ago..  Saw a couple listings for seed also. If you picked some up, you'll have to share how easy/ difficult they were to germinate.. how they progress..  I like the exotic look you get w/ planting some, yet avoid the potential nightmare of various bamboos.. especially where space is limited.

[kinzyjr]

Considering your desired size, width and function you have your options narrowed down as far as bamboo goes.  I can confirm that Bambusa oldhamii doesn't have much leaf cover on the bottom 10-20 feet like you need.

If it doesn't have to be a bamboo, you may want to consider Southern Magnolia 'Little Gem'.  They have the large waxy leaves you need, stay compact, are perfectly adapted to Southeastern US climates and soil and provide some showy flowers.  You can also get larger specimens just about anywhere, even big box stores.  You could have your noise screen installed in one fell swoop with a few more mature specimens.

A link for reference: Little Gem Magnolia

 

[Silas_Sancona]

11 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

Considering your desired size, width and function you have your options narrowed down as far as bamboo goes.  I can confirm that Bambusa oldhamii doesn't have much leaf cover on the bottom 10-20 feet like you need.

If it doesn't have to be a bamboo, you may want to consider Southern Magnolia 'Little Gem'.  They have the large waxy leaves you need, stay compact, are perfectly adapted to Southeastern US climates and soil and provide some showy flowers.  You can also get larger specimens just about anywhere, even big box stores.  You could have your noise screen installed in one fell swoop with a few more mature specimens.

A link for reference: Little Gem Magnolia

 

Would consider something like Podocarpus before id entertain the idea of Magnolias for a sound barrier.. especially after watching nearly 3 dozen get axed near where id lived in Largo.  From what i was told after inquiring, some landscape company thought they'd be good for reducing sound from nearby traffic.. Didn't work as well as suggested and the trees never looked all that good.
 

[Merlyn]

I did plant a "Bracken's Brown Beauty" Magnolia from a local nursery, it's in the SE along my E fenceline.  I'm sure it'll help somewhat, but it will probably be 3-4 years before it's large enough to make a noticeable difference.  Around here the "Little Gem" always look bad, at least once they get up to 20' tall.  They don't seem to ever "bush out" to fill in the gaps between the small leaves, maybe that's because people quit trimming them.  In my impromptu experiments at the nursery they don't do much for sound damping.  I stood behind several different types, and sound seemed to just go right through the Little Gems, while at least high frequencies (like tire and aerodynamic whistle) were knocked down a bit by the large leaf Magnolia types.  That goes along with the recommended "large, thick waxy leaves" in the sound study I read. 

"Bamboo plants as a noise barrier to reduce road traffic noise" Hans J.A. van Leeuwen, Inter.noise 2016.  Their estimates from old research was a noise reduction for a 6m (20ft) thick wall of vegetation: Holly (4-6dBA), Bamboo (3.5-4dBA), Viburnum (15dBA) and Willow (30dBA) reductions.  Willows might be great in the summer, but they lose their leaves in the winter here, right when I'm more likely to actually *want* to be outside in the backyard!  The old estimates for bamboo appear to be really low, because their actual measurements averaged around 9dBA, with really good absorption above 1kHz of 10-25dBA.  They didn't say the species they used, but that it was 6m thick and 5m tall.  If you don't know a lot about acoustics, dB is a logarithmic scale of 10*log(intensity).  So -3dBA is 1/2, -6dBA is 1/4, -9dBA is 1/8th.  Perceptually it's not quite that easy, humans "think" that 1/2 as loud is somewhere around -6 to -10dBA, but a trained listener can easily pick out a 1dBA change in level.  That's probably more info than necessary, but at least there is scientific proof that some bamboo work well on noise.

 

[Merlyn]

10 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Would consider something like Podocarpus before id entertain the idea of Magnolias for a sound barrier.. especially after watching nearly 3 dozen get axed near where id lived in Largo.  From what i was told after inquiring, some landscape company thought they'd be good for reducing sound from nearby traffic.. Didn't work as well as suggested and the trees never looked all that good.

I picked Viburnum over Podocarpus due to growth rate and sound damping.  2 years ago I stood behind a big line of Podocarpus near a road, and it had some effect on traffic noise...but not a huge amount.  It also grows slower than most palms, 6" per year up to maybe 1' per year.  My Viburnum has been growing about 3-4' per year, even with trimming them back to bush them out. 

[Merlyn]

23 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Considering your desired size, width and function you have your options narrowed down as far as bamboo goes.  I can confirm that Bambusa oldhamii doesn't have much leaf cover on the bottom 10-20 feet like you need.

I think in my SE corner something sort of like Oldhamii or Kanapaha (textilis mutabilis) would work okay, since there will be quite a few other medium-height palms and cycads in the SE side.  The bare lower 10' or so would look really cool with But I think the small leaf size and lack of general "bushiness" would mean that the top part doesn't do a great job of blocking sound.  I was really surprised at how little a clump of B. Textilis Gracilis did to ambient noise and the landscape guy's leaf blower.  B. Multiplex types like Alphonse Karr also did almost nothing to leaf blower noise.  Oddly enough, B. Vulgaris Wamin (Dwarf Buddha Belly) did a great job of blocking noise.

[kinzyjr]

18 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:

I think in my SE corner something sort of like Oldhamii or Kanapaha (textilis mutabilis) would work okay, since there will be quite a few other medium-height palms and cycads in the SE side.  The bare lower 10' or so would look really cool with But I think the small leaf size and lack of general "bushiness" would mean that the top part doesn't do a great job of blocking sound.  I was really surprised at how little a clump of B. Textilis Gracilis did to ambient noise and the landscape guy's leaf blower.  B. Multiplex types like Alphonse Karr also did almost nothing to leaf blower noise.  Oddly enough, B. Vulgaris Wamin (Dwarf Buddha Belly) did a great job of blocking noise.

I think that you're doing the right thing in considering different plant options and a layered approach.  I did want to add that Podocarpus can grow extremely fast under the right circumstances. 

The first photo is from May 10^th, 2018.  You can see they still have the tags on them.  These are the small ones you get at Home Depot or Lowe's:

This photo is from earlier today with a 2G pot for comparison.  I have  standing reach ~8ft an they are at least a foot over that.

[Merlyn]

11 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

I think that you're doing the right thing in considering different plant options and a layered approach.  I did want to add that Podocarpus can grow extremely fast under the right circumstances.  The first photo is from May 10^th, 2018.  You can see they still have the tags on them.  These are the small ones you get at Home Depot or Lowe's.  This photo is from earlier today with a 2G pot for comparison.  I have  standing reach ~8ft an they are at least a foot over that.

That's pretty good growth, roughly 3-4 feet per year!  It looks like you haven't cut them back to force them to "bush out," I know in Viburnum you can pretty much cut a stem anywhere and it'll sprout new branches.  I've seen a 20-30 foot tall hedge of Viburnum get hacked down to 8 feet, they cut through 2-3" diameter stems and left it about 90% bare of leaves.  I thought they had killed the entire hedgeline.  A month later and every single branch has a new flush of leaves and is denser than it was at 30 feet tall!  Is that the case with Podocarpus as well?

[kinzyjr]

6 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

That's pretty good growth, roughly 3-4 feet per year!  It looks like you haven't cut them back to force them to "bush out," I know in Viburnum you can pretty much cut a stem anywhere and it'll sprout new branches.  I've seen a 20-30 foot tall hedge of Viburnum get hacked down to 8 feet, they cut through 2-3" diameter stems and left it about 90% bare of leaves.  I thought they had killed the entire hedgeline.  A month later and every single branch has a new flush of leaves and is denser than it was at 30 feet tall!  Is that the case with Podocarpus as well?

Podocarpus seems to recover a little slower from a hack job.  I topped a few that turned out to be my neighbors a few years ago.  They eventually got back to their 12-15 ft. of overall height, but it took some time for that to happen - more than a year.  I'd have to say Viburnum recovers much more quickly.

I haven't trimmed up the podocarpus yet because I want them to keep pace with the height of the bud of the coconut palms they protect.  They are one of the windbreaks being used in the case of a more advective freeze event.  I'll eventually have to bush them out, but for now I'm letting them grow unimpeded to ensure I get the coconuts through the juvenile stage.

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

Podocarpus seems to recover a little slower from a hack job.  I topped a few that turned out to be my neighbors a few years ago.  They eventually got back to their 12-15 ft. of overall height, but it took some time for that to happen - more than a year.  I'd have to say Viburnum recovers much more quickly.

I haven't trimmed up the podocarpus yet because I want them to keep pace with the height of the bud of the coconut palms they protect.  They are one of the windbreaks being used in the case of a more advective freeze event.  I'll eventually have to bush them out, but for now I'm letting them grow unimpeded to ensure I get the coconuts through the juvenile stage.

Definitely a bit slow to bounce back from a severe pruning.. and if done at the wrong time of year, in some place hot and dry, you risk burning normally shaded areas of your plants and potential die back of those damaged areas..  That said, have seen the same thing happen w/ Viburnums that were pulled back a bit too much too fast.. and when they respond badly to a bad hair cut.. it's ugly, lol.

What i have always liked about Podocarpus is, when handled right,  there is less potential for those bare/ nearly leafless, areas that tend to be mostly old wood..   When tipped regularly, they can be formed well but look natural and retain a full coat of green.. 

@kinzyjr yours may be at a good height after this coming summer to do some minor tipping, just to slow down height a bit and focus more energy to the lower growth to help the plants fill in a touch faster..  especially on the left hand side where growth on the closest ones, ( in the pic. ) appears to be out-pacing the rest of the " hedge in development" on that side, so to say.. When i say "tipping" take no more than a couple inches off the top, maybe a little more on that left hand side.. Goal is to keep everything filling out at as evenly of a pace as is possible..  Let them get too tall before starting the process and you may have trouble getting everything to fill out evenly, top to bottom..

On a side note.. ( I'll try and get a couple pictures later ) stumbled upon a business that is using Torch Glow Bougainvillea as a tall privacy hedge. Want t say it is either 8 or 10 in height.. can't imagine how long it took to grow it to such height / thickness but notice established plants can grow pretty rapidly when watered well during the summer.. Nice change of pace compared to using regular 'ol  Bougs for a similar purpose. No thorns, and much denser growth. 

[kinzyjr]

Thank you for your insight, @Silas_Sancona.  They do grow to the left in the picture because that is facing south.  They'll probably get their first prune come October.

[Nolannorthbay]

oldhamii can hold lower leaves if it has enough light. The leaves are wider than most bambusas with a lovely twist to them.  This beauty is growing in Santa Rosa CA

[Merlyn]

7 hours ago, Nolannorthbay said:

oldhamii can hold lower leaves if it has enough light. The leaves are wider than most bambusas with a lovely twist to them.  This beauty is growing in Santa Rosa CA

That's a great photo, thanks!  All the pictures I've seen have Oldhamii (and Chungii and Kanapaha too) as nearly bare at the bottom.  Here's a shot from Beautiful Bamboo in Clermont, FL.  Full sun with Gracilis 2014 planting on the left, Kanapaha 2013 in the middle and Seabreeze 2014 on the right.  I'll have to dig for a photo of Oldhamii, I think I took one but it might have been in a lot more shade.  You can see the bottom 6-8' of Kanapaha is pretty bare in this photo, even in full sun.

[Merlyn]

Here's closeups of a different clump of bamboos planted in 2013, Gracilis, Asian Lemon and Chungii Barbellata.  You can see why I picked Asian Lemon as a good low hedge, it has a "Dragon's Nest" (sorta like Bambusa Dissimulator) at only 2-3' off the ground.  I think this density is why it works way better than Gracilis at damping noise.  For noise at 20+ feet high they might be similar, but I couldn't try that out without hauling a giant A-frame ladder with me to the nursery. 

[Merlyn]

I just spoke to Chuck at Bountiful Earth in New Smyrna, he said that ones like Dendrocalamus Latiflorus can get big, but not like they do in the tropics.  Right now his canes are around 7" maximum and have been there for many years.  He has Hamiltonii, Latiflorus and Validus in the ground, and rates them all fairly similar in size and cold tolerance.  He said they all did pretty well with 26F and started defoliating around 24-26F.  I'm going to stop by later this week and see some of these in person and grown in a similar climate.  'Cause it's photos like this that scare me away from Latiflorus!!!

[Matt N- Dallas]

I grow the regular form of b. Chungii in San Marcos, TX.  It has been fast growing, dense and full of leaves - nearly to the ground- within 2’-3’ of ground level.  It’s growing in full sun and I often trim off lower leaves to see more of the culms.  

[Oviedo_z10b_lol]

As I mentioned in a post on the palm forum, I inherited a grove of bamboo when my bought my stately manor a couple years ago. And upon review of your photos, and some deeply scientific google research, it appears I have Asian lemon variety. 
 

if in full sun, it seems to grow leaves to within very near the ground level. It’s much more sparse if in the shade. My grove runs along the back of the pool cage, north to south. The first pic is the shady north side. The second is the much sunnier south side. The last two pics are to show the overall height of the grove. 
good luck. And whatever variety you choose, don’t let this stuff get away from you. If you give it an inch, it’ll take 500 miles. Even the clumpers. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Oviedo_z10b_lol

[Merlyn]

On 1/29/2020 at 10:28 AM, Oviedo_z10b_lol said:

As I mentioned in a post on the palm forum, I inherited a grove of bamboo when my bought my stately manor a couple years ago. And upon review of your photos, and some deeply scientific google research, it appears I have Asian lemon variety. 
if in full sun, it seems to grow leaves to within very near the ground level. It’s much more sparse if in the shade. My grove runs along the back of the pool cage, north to south. The first pic is the shady north side. The second is the much sunnier south side. The last two pics are to show the overall height of the grove. 
good luck. And whatever variety you choose, don’t let this stuff get away from you. If you give it an inch, it’ll take 500 miles. Even the clumpers.

Yep, looks like Asian Lemon!  I stopped at Chuck's place Bountiful Earth, he sold his storefront area last year so you have to call to go to his home address.  He had a wide variety in the ground and quite a few 7g and 15g pot sizes available, but very few 3g sizes.  I ended up buying a D. Latiflorus 3G and D. Hamiltonii (not) 7G for my two tall spots.  It's called Hamiltonii (not) on his website because it was originally imported as Hamiltonii, but it's clearly not the same as the Hamiltonii in Asia.  His mature clusters were definitely 50-65' tall for both species, and the Latiflorus were around 7" maximum culm diameter at the base.  This is my wife's hand on a 5-6" Latiflorus culm, the one just to the right behind it is in the 6-7" range.

If you want something utterly impenetrable, Bambusa Dissimulator earns its nickname well, "Dragon's Nest."  This cluster isn't thorny, but crazy dense at ground level.  For an insanely dense hedge this stuff would do it, even if you pulled out some of the old dead canes.  These were mostly about 2" canes and smaller "multiplex" or "textilis" sized leaves.

[Merlyn]

My Dendrocalamus Hamiltonii (not) made it into the ground today in a "decorative" area that's not sound-critical.  The spreading top of this one made it a good choice to go near the garage, where it'll provide some shade for the driveway where I park.  This one (on the left) was a discounted $50 7g pot from Chuck @ Bountiful Earth in New Smyrna. 

I've also planted the Dendrocalamus Latiflorus in the SE corner, and am planning on getting a D. Maroochy and D. Maximuslamina from Tropical Bamboo after this week's cold front.  I also got a culm of Chungii from PT member ChuckG and planted it along the S fenceline.

[Merlyn]

On 1/25/2020 at 10:05 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

While it doesn't get anywhere as big ..maybe 15ft tops and ..for some strange reason.. isn't easy to find anywhere in the states ( should be ), if you can find Tiger Grass, Thysanolaena maxima it might help out w/ the sound issue, especially if you planted something of shorter height.. but with dense foliage either in front or centered in between clumps of it. Clumper, fast growing.. pretty big leaves as well.  Have seen it offered at some of the Bamboo places i'd known of in/around the Tampa Bay Area a few years ago.  If i have to, i may buy back a bunch i planted for a neighbor back in California if i can't find it anywhere else once back there.. 

I finally foung Tiger Grass, after looking and finding seeds but no live plants...and giving up for over 2 years.  Tropical Bamboo was selling them on Etsy so I snapped up one pot and a Dendrocalamus Elegans.  Apparently Tiger Grass is pretty cold hardy too, which makes it a great under-15 foot plant. 

The other big leaf boos did well with 24F and frost, taking about 50% or less damage to Latiflorus and Maroochy.  Hamiltonii took almost no damage in the front at 27-28F with frost.  MaximusLamina was 100% defoliated in a similarly warmer spot in the yard, maybe 27-28F with frost.  But it is growing back nicely despite losing the upper half of all the canes.  MaximusLamina and Tiger Grass both have enormous leaves, both probably in the 4 inch wide x 10-20 inch long range...

[Silas_Sancona]

10 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

I finally foung Tiger Grass, after looking and finding seeds but no live plants...and giving up for over 2 years.  Tropical Bamboo was selling them on Etsy so I snapped up one pot and a Dendrocalamus Elegans.  Apparently Tiger Grass is pretty cold hardy too, which makes it a great under-15 foot plant. 

The other big leaf boos did well with 24F and frost, taking about 50% or less damage to Latiflorus and Maroochy.  Hamiltonii took almost no damage in the front at 27-28F with frost.  MaximusLamina was 100% defoliated in a similarly warmer spot in the yard, maybe 27-28F with frost.  But it is growing back nicely despite losing the upper half of all the canes.  MaximusLamina and Tiger Grass both have enormous leaves, both probably in the 4 inch wide x 10-20 inch long range...

Cool, Tiger Grass will definitely take a some cold w/ out  being killed, and will make a nice, and lush looking ..but easy to manage clump.  I'll bet after you see how it fills out / handles a couple winters, you'll want more, especially if it helps shelter something tender growing near it while the more tender plant is young.

If i had more space where i was able to create a sort of low area that would collect runoff, ..and more trees, i'd try it here.. 

I'll have to look again but think at least a few of the bigger leaved, ( and massive ) Boos  Bamboo Ranch ( In Tucson ) has trialed have survived some pretty nippy winters down in Tucson, of all places.

[Merlyn]

@Silas_Sancona yeah I have wanted to try Tiger Grass for a long time!  I read that it is a very tight grower and ultimately grows to about a 3' diameter clump at ground level, with a spreading top up to around 8-13' tall.  They said it was a rapid grower and that the inner culms will eventually die and require some pruning or dividing of the clump to make it look nice again.  That would be a downside if they grow and die every year, but not a big deal if they look nice for an entire growing season.

Do you know if they self-seed when they bloom?  That would definitely impact my planting spots, if they have a tendency to re-seed into new clumps on a regular basis.

[Silas_Sancona]

12 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

@Silas_Sancona yeah I have wanted to try Tiger Grass for a long time!  I read that it is a very tight grower and ultimately grows to about a 3' diameter clump at ground level, with a spreading top up to around 8-13' tall.  They said it was a rapid grower and that the inner culms will eventually die and require some pruning or dividing of the clump to make it look nice again.  That would be a downside if they grow and die every year, but not a big deal if they look nice for an entire growing season.

Do you know if they self-seed when they bloom?  That would definitely impact my planting spots, if they have a tendency to re-seed into new clumps on a regular basis.

That i don't. The one i had / planted at a neighbor's back in California hadn't flowered ( likely due to being squeezed in a pot ) and since i'd moved not too long after i'd planted it, no clue if it has flowered / tried to set seed since.   ..Would be curious myself both from a " how viable is any seed produced ", and"  what the flowering cycle is " perspective.  Don't believe it is like true Bamboos where it will take years to flower/ set seed though. Hopefully it is a good ..but not overly aggressive.. seeder ..so you'll have some to start ..and/or pass around later..

Definitely a tighter clumper..  though individual stalks can lean out a bit.. So you might say ..while a general 3-4ft diameter is average.. might plan for it to lean out a little more ..Not by too much, but a little extra room where you might plant it is always good..

Think it should produce enough new culms where you're at to compensate for any individual inner ones that die out after a year or two.  That said, like a lot of grasses, yea.. may come a time when dividing it should be done to " revive " it  ..Just means you'll have more to play with

Thought @Eric in Orlando had some growing at Leu.. If so, any additional observations to add?

 

[Merlyn]

@Silas_Sancona I did see some at Leu Gardens a while back, it was growing in a pretty shady area so it certainly wasn't growing quick and dense.  It definitely has a spreading top, probably a good 8' in overall diameter even though the clump at ground level was very small.  And it was definitely blooming!

[D Palm]

Good read so far! I planted many viburnums for privacy and I can not think of a better privacy shrub plus noise dampening plant for our area. @Merlyn my only reluctance to add any bamboo is availablty for our area and wind tolerance I.e. hurricanes. I do not want 30’ canes blowing over in a Cat 2.

does windows tolerance vary by species?

Edited June 13, 2022 by D Palm

[Merlyn]

9 hours ago, D Palm said:

Good read so far! I planted many viburnums for privacy and I can not think of a better privacy shrub plus noise dampening plant for our area. @Merlyn my only reluctance to add any bamboo is availability for our area and wind tolerance I.e. hurricanes. I do not want 30’ canes blowing over in a Cat 2.  Does windows tolerance vary by species?

Keep in mind that a 30' tall 3' culm only weighs around 20-30lb with leaves.  I removed a Seabreeze / B. Maligensis cluster last month and none of the culms were difficult to carry upright.  So if an individual culm broke loose and fell on your house or car, it isn't going to do a ton of damage.  A similar length typical water oak branch would be hundreds of pounds and a car-crusher.  The only issue I've heard of in hurricanes is the whole clump being pushed over.  I could see that being a problem if you had a 50+ foot tall cluster of 4-6" canes right next to your house.  I've avoided the true "giants" for that reason.

As far as your area, I'd guess you are a cold 9a, maybe a borderline 9b.  There are a bunch of that can handle lots of cold, but not a lot of "medium height big leaves" types.  Latiflorus and Maroochy were in my coldest part of the yard and saw 24-26F for about 4-5 hours in the end of January, with frost.  Latiflorus was slightly taller (35' or so) and slightly hardier, losing about 50% of the upper leaves.  Maroochy was about 5-10' shorter and lost a bit more than 50% of the leaves.  Neither lost canes and both have completely regrown.  MaximusLamina was 100% defoliated and most canes died down to near the ground.  Hamiltonii "top burned" the upper 25% of the leaves and quickly regrew without losing any canes.  I also have Brandisii "Black" that was defoliated, but it was a new planting and only had two small 0.5" canes at the time.  By the end of the year there should be a couple of decent culms.  Dendrocalamus Bambusoides "Zen Grey" was in the front yard at 27-28F and took zero damage, and was the first to shoot in April.  At 50' with 2-3" culms that might be a possibility for you.  Dendrocalamus Minor Amoenus was also in the 24-26F area and took zero damage. 

Otherwise the best 20F hardy one is B. Chungii at 30-35' 2" blue and white culms.  It's a fast hedge with 1-1.5" x 4-8" leaves, a semi-open clump pattern, and no branches under 10'.  You could cross off all the Gigantochloa as they defoliate around 30F.  One small possibility is Thysanolaena Maxima - aka Tiger Grass.  It's supposed to max out around 10-15' with very tight clumping at the ground and a spreading top.  I read it was hardy to ~24F so I am trying it out.

[Merlyn]

@D Palm I thought of another one you might like...Bambusa Oldhamii "Shoot Production Strain."  It is supposed to be ~18F hardy, has nice bigger sized (but not giant) leaves, and it is only supposed to grow to a maximum of 30'.  I am trying it out in my backyard, hopefully it won't get too huge too fast.

Dendrocalamus Farinosus is a ~22F hardy type that's plain green, but 35' 2-3" culms and big 2.25" x 13" leaves.  It's kind of unknown but might be a good big leaf hardy type.

The nice thing about bamboos is that they grow quickly to mature size, so you can tell fairly soon if you are going to like it.  My clumps were hitting mature size in 2 years from a single culm division.  The bad thing is that they are a pain to remove if you don't have a handy burn pile or a tractor to just yank out the entire clump in one pull.  I've removed two big clusters of Seabreeze and Lako, and it took me (by hand) a full day or more to completely dig them out, cut up the culms, and bag for yard waste.

[Silas_Sancona]

49 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

Keep in mind that a 30' tall 3' culm only weighs around 20-30lb with leaves.  I removed a Seabreeze / B. Maligensis cluster last month and none of the culms were difficult to carry upright.  So if an individual culm broke loose and fell on your house or car, it isn't going to do a ton of damage.  A similar length typical water oak branch would be hundreds of pounds and a car-crusher.  The only issue I've heard of in hurricanes is the whole clump being pushed over.  I could see that being a problem if you had a 50+ foot tall cluster of 4-6" canes right next to your house.  I've avoided the true "giants" for that reason.

 

When i was at the Fruit and Spice park in Homestead back in 2014, they has a grove of one of the giant Timber bamboo .. Can't remember the exact sp. off the top of my head.. Regardless, was more of an open grove w/ clums popping up here and there over a large area, vs, contained to a tight " clump.. While they'd creak and clack when the wind blew through them, didn't seem they would present a major damage concern in a hurricane ( ..well, lol.. your typical Cat 1.. maybe a low end  cat. 2  storm at least )  Still don't think i'd plant them near a house, but, Bamboo culms tend to be pretty sturdy and are typically quite flexible rather than brittle and easily broken as - is.

Also don't recall the owners of Crowley's ever discussing experiencing any tropical storm - related damage to all their Bamboo at the nursery out near Myakka, though, as far as i remember,  they were not growing any of the true giants.

[Merlyn]

@Silas_Sancona Tropical Bamboo is in Loxahatchee, and they went through several hurricanes in the last ~20 years.  The biggest problem they had was flooding and some fields staying saturated for over a week.  That killed off a couple of clumps.  Boonut in Texas also had sustained flooding cause problems with a few clumps, but I don't recall him saying anything about wind damage.  Likewise Chuck at Bountiful Earth in New Smyrna has seen several hurricanes recently.  He had some issues with old dead culms cracking and falling, but if you prune out dead ones once a year it wouldn't be an issue.

[Scott W]

Speaking of big leafed bamboo, the triple hybrid Dendrocalamus latiflorus x D.daii x B.textilis that I got from Tropical Bamboo is really starting to show it's beauty.  The color of the culms and the size of the leaves are spectacular!  It's only been in the ground two seasons and was planted from a 3 gallon size, so hopefully I'll see some bigger culms this season as well.

 

[D Palm]

@Merlyn The bambusa Chungii has grabbed my attention! That powder…wow! It says moist but well drained soil…would you say fast draining white sand or mud bog? That’s the 2 areas I have available on my 2 acres. Full blown sun or part sun? Any local retailers? I rarely see bamboo at B&B.

My yard has extreme soil profiles with a thin sweet spot occupied by peach trees…Gulf Crest, Florida King and Florida Prince….Peaches own that spot.

Edited June 14, 2022 by D Palm

[D Palm]

Far as cold hardiness for my area, super cold winter is a few hours into 18-19. Above average winter is nights in mid 20’s. 23 ultimate low is an average winter.  This last winter it dipped to 19, even Washy’s took foliage damage which is a first I have witnessed since moving here in ‘09. I’ve only seen it dip into teens twice.

Edited June 14, 2022 by D Palm

[Scott W]

@D Palm I have B Chungii Bareblatta, which is supposed to be a shorter form of Chungii.  It has performed well here in Jacksonville for me, though I haven't had sub freezing temps in several years.  From my recollection I only ever suffered leaf damage, no culm death when it did.  I should be taking divisions of this here real soon.

[Merlyn]

@D Palm I love Chungii, and have a cluster in my backyard.  The only downside (for me) is that the leaves "medium" sized.  They are bigger than Textilis in size, currently at about 0.75" x 6".  Cosmetically the culms are awesome, here's a photo of the new shoots.  The powdery blue mutes as it rains on it, and the tan culm sheaths fall off after it finishes growing:

@Scott W how has Chungii Barbellata done for you?  I was thinking about it for a cold-hardy soundblock spot, but I also read it is a "culm producing machine."  I ripped out a B. Maligensis because in 2 years it went from 1 culm to 40 culms in the 2" range.  And this spring it was pushing a whopping 30-35 new 3" culms!!!  This would be awesome if I had 1/2 acre to dedicate to it...the cluster at Leu Gardens is easily 30 feet in diameter and 50' tall.  Is your Barbellata doing 30+ culms this spring?  My regular Chungii is putting up 11 culms at 2" diameter right now.  That might be too much for the spot it's in, so I was thinking of replacing it with Barbellata.

[Merlyn]

And as a general update on a couple of my big boos:

Dendrocalamus Latiflorus on the left, about 30-40' tall planted in February 2020.  This is putting out 1-3 culms at a time, and jumped from a single culm in 2020 to a couple of 3+ inchers this spring.  The bigger leaves are about 2.5 x 13."  It took about 25-50% upper leaf damage from 24F and frost in January, but has totally regrown with no culm loss.  I bought this from Chuck at Bountiful Earth.

Dendrocalamus Maroochy on the right, about 20-30' tall planted in March 2020.  It's growing similar to Latiflorus, just a bit smaller overall.  The biggest culms are now 2.25 inchers, and the leaves are a big 4.25 x 17".  It took a little bit more damage than Latiflorus, maybe a few percent more leaf loss.  It also regrew fine with no culm loss, though you can see a couple of tips that died and haven't resprouted.  I bought this from Tropical Bamboo online.

Both were shaded by a couple of 60-80' tall pines and oaks along the fenceline for the first year.  I removed those in January 2021 so they've been in full sun ever since.

That was the whole view, with an Asian Lemon peeking in from the left and a Lako on the right edge.  I just transplanted a Caryota Monostachya into the shade in the middle, it was really unhappy being in full sun.  Here's the Latiflorus culm detail.  The first year it put out about 8 culms all under 1 inch in diameter.  The second year it put out 8 culms in the 2-3 inch range, and this year none, probably as a result of the setback from frost:

Here's the culm view of Maroochy, sometimes described as a smaller Brandisii with striated culms.  The striations fade above about 6' up.  It grew a bit slower than Latiflorus, with 3-4 culms the first year in the 0.5-0.75" range and another 6 culms last year in the 2 inch range:

[Scott W]

On 6/14/2022 at 12:22 PM, Merlyn said:

 

@Scott W how has Chungii Barbellata done for you?  I was thinking about it for a cold-hardy soundblock spot, but I also read it is a "culm producing machine."   That might be too much for the spot it's in, so I was thinking of replacing it with Barbellata.

Yeah I wouldn't say it's a machine, but two of the three stands struggled the first year in the ground as well.  The third is growing nicely and what you see in the first picture is about 6 years growth from a single culm division.

This one is also shade grown under an oak, get morning and maybe some late, late afternoon sun.  Gets watered when it rains or if we are in a drought maybe once a week.  Fertilized at the beginning of each year as well.

[D Palm]

@Scott W it looks really nice! Message me when your ready to part with some.