Is anyone growing Gardenia? Which are good varieties?

[SailorBold]

Hello Everyone.. The subject is Gardenia.  I have tried this plant and failed miserably and I am going to try to grow it again.  Here in New Mexico.. it is the soil, and the alkaline water that will be the main challenges for getting this plant to survive.  I learned this the hard way. 

I am planning on building a planter and completely digging out all of the soil and filling it with good acidic garden soil. The last time I tried to grow it I planted it in the native sand and it died nearly right away.  So my tap water is very alkaline as well.. Im going to install a rain-barrel and collect the rainwater.  From there.. Id like to add a drip line that will slowly drip the acidic rain water into the planter.  Do you think it will work?  I dont think hardiness will be much of an issue...perhaps humidity will.. but Im thinking if the initial needs are met.. it should do fine.

Does anyone have any experience with growing Gardenia??   Could anyone suggest varieties for me to consider? I suppose long flowering periods are good..and overall hardiness would be an issue as well.  I know nothing of the fragrance levels.. or even the ultimate size. etc. The last time I tried August Beauty..  which I never got a chance to see what the name meant..  smh..   Id like to hear some of your experiences and your suggestions as well. Sorry I dont have any pics yet...   Thanks for your help !

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 9/27/2019 at 2:47 PM, SailorBold said:

Hello Everyone.. The subject is Gardenia.  I have tried this plant and failed miserably and I am going to try to grow it again.  Here in New Mexico.. it is the soil, and the alkaline water that will be the main challenges for getting this plant to survive.  I learned this the hard way. 

I am planning on building a planter and completely digging out all of the soil and filling it with good acidic garden soil. The last time I tried to grow it I planted it in the native sand and it died nearly right away.  So my tap water is very alkaline as well.. Im going to install a rain-barrel and collect the rainwater.  From there.. Id like to add a drip line that will slowly drip the acidic rain water into the planter.  Do you think it will work?  I dont think hardiness will be much of an issue...perhaps humidity will.. but Im thinking if the initial needs are met.. it should do fine.

Does anyone have any experience with growing Gardenia??   Could anyone suggest varieties for me to consider? I suppose long flowering periods are good..and overall hardiness would be an issue as well.  I know nothing of the fragrance levels.. or even the ultimate size. etc. The last time I tried August Beauty..  which I never got a chance to see what the name meant..  smh..   Id like to hear some of your experiences and your suggestions as well. Sorry I dont have any pics yet...   Thanks for your help !

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I think your plan for creation of beds containing more ideal soil, capturing rain water vs hitting them with regular city water is pretty solid. 

As far as best varieties, have grown / sold several and other than flower / overall plant size / flowering times, couldn't really tell much difference in fragrance between various varieties, all smell great, unless you're allergic to them, lol.. 

That said,  Gardenias in general are very susceptible to Nematodes, particularly Root Knot Nematodes which I believe may be present in both your / our local soils ( again, i could be wrong, esp. concerning that specific Nematode sp. here in the southwest ) regardless, a few ways of managing them:  adding plants to the planting bed that repel, ie: Marigolds or,  periodic addition of Crab / Shrimp shell meal around them through the year.  Stinks a bit when first added but produces a by-product as the shell breaks down that inhibits / supresses growth / reproduction of Nematodes. Crab shell also adds stuff to the soil they'll like. I use it on all my containerized stuff both to keep Nemos. out, and as a fertilizer.  On a more general fertilizing scale, keep the Phosphorus low, Potassium higher, Nitrogen average.. Iron once or twice a year to keep them green.  Don't need fed much regardless. 

Might also consider an in line hose filter for reducing Chlorine, ( when you have to water w/o collected rain water ) which I believe is also something Gardenias aren't fond of..  ..and once the plants are in, Don't disturb them / around the roots.. Really react badly to that, or has been repeated past experiences I'd had back in California. 

Not sure how they'd react to full summer sun up your way either, might like some shade at that time.. We kept them with stuff that likes filtered sun ( Ferns, Rhodies / Azaleas, Saucer Magnolias etc ) at the Nursery I worked for back in San Jose. Grandparents' plants always did best where they received morning sun / shaded by the east facing garage wall in the afternoon.  Same spot they had huge Bird of Paradise ( Strelitzia ) for 2 decades before they were removed by my Grandpa.  Gardenia I added where they got more sun struggled more, esp. during the hottest part of summer / early fall. 

[SEVA]

Right now, I only have Gardenia jasminoides 'Radicans' growing in my garden.  I've read this one is hardy to zone 7 (I'm 7b/8a).  The flowers aren't the largest, but still fill the air with that unmistakable gardenia fragrance.  My soils are naturally acidic, so I haven't had to alter the pH.  I have added some organic matter, since the soil here is a loamy sand.  Like @Silas_Sancona mentioned, I'd recommend afternoon shade.  I'm not sure I've seen one planted in full sun around here.  Mine are planted on the eastern side of the house and only receive morning/early afternoon sun.  The one that grows best for me is the one that receives extra shade from the cannas.

[Estlander]

I have a Gardenia on the Northwest corner of my house and gets pretty much full sun from 12pm onward. Planted it about two years ago and is doing great. It's in native sandy soil with a top layer of orange clay fill from when the house was built.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Estlander

[Nj Palms]

I would love to try some cold hardy varieties here. They would love the acidic soil from the pines. Sadly can’t find any up here. If anyone has seedlings of cold hardy varieties I would be interested. Also how hardy are regular gardenias. I got a large tree form one at lowes for $5.

[SEVA]

  On 9/28/2019 at 5:17 PM, Nj Palms said:

I would love to try some cold hardy varieties here. They would love the acidic soil from the pines. Sadly can’t find any up here. If anyone has seedlings of cold hardy varieties I would be interested. Also how hardy are regular gardenias. I got a large tree form one at lowes for $5.

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I just went to a local big box store yesterday and there were 3 varieties available: Radicans, August Beauty, and Daisy.  According to the tags, August Beauty is only hardy to zone 8 so I got one to try here.  It said Radicans is hardy to zone 7 (I have several of these and they've done well in my 7b/8a garden).  It said Daisy is hardy to zone 6.  I didn't know any gardenia could grow in zone 6, but maybe?

[Nj Palms]

  On 9/29/2019 at 1:54 PM, SEVA said:

I just went to a local big box store yesterday and there were 3 varieties available: Radicans, August Beauty, and Daisy.  According to the tags, August Beauty is only hardy to zone 8 so I got one to try here.  It said Radicans is hardy to zone 7 (I have several of these and they've done well in my 7b/8a garden).  It said Daisy is hardy to zone 6.  I didn't know any gardenia could grow in zone 6, but maybe?

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Frost proof (Cape Jasmine) are hardy to zone 6. Kleims hardy and scent amazing are also zone 6. Most winters are 7a/7b here so I think they would do great. I will take cuttings of my regular variety tree and probably plant them next spring depending if I can get some good growth over winter in the garage. 

[SailorBold]

Thanks for all replies!  Im going to give it a try I think.. the sun may be too strong but I guess we will find out..  The other option I had in mind was brugmansia but not sure how they would do either. 

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 10/10/2019 at 4:24 AM, SailorBold said:

Thanks for all replies!  Im going to give it a try I think.. the sun may be too strong but I guess we will find out..  The other option I had in mind was brugmansia but not sure how they would do either. 

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There, I'd give the edge to Gardenia.. Bruges would likely burn more easily in the summer unless placed where they aren't exposed to the sun, also like A lot of water too..  For the Gardenia, you could always tuck them somewhere where they'd only get direct sun in the early morning thru the summer, or maybe in a bed under some sort of patio cover, depending which direction such a structure faces ofcourse.. .  

As far as Brugmansia,  have heard of people keeping them alive as far north as 6b with a lot of mulch cover in the winter, and planted in a spot where they stay as dry as possible when cold. Not to say they wouldn't die back to the crown 90+% of the time each winter, but,  looking around a bit,  I notice there are at least a few hybrid types ( offered by Logee's ) that are supposedly hardier ( to zone 8, maybe 7b) compared to others.  Not sure if the " hardiness" refers to coming back from the crown each year, or that these particular hybrids / cultivars might retain some degree of woody growth through winter in colder areas via what sp.  we're used in the cross.. I'd probably try 'em regardless, just to know for sure.. 

[MSX]

  On 10/10/2019 at 4:24 AM, SailorBold said:

Thanks for all replies!  Im going to give it a try I think.. the sun may be too strong but I guess we will find out..  The other option I had in mind was brugmansia but not sure how they would do either. 

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Hi, this topic is almost 4 years old, but still would love to hear more about experience with gardenia in NM.

Saw gardenia jasminoides here for sale the other day and wonder if those plants are worth purchasing at all, even as a houseplant if you live in the desert

Edited May 28, 2023 by MSX

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 5/28/2023 at 5:42 PM, MSX said:

Hi, this topic is almost 4 years old, but still would love to hear more about experience with gardenia in NM.

Saw gardenia jasminoides here for sale the other day and wonder if those plants are worth purchasing at all, even as a houseplant if you live in the desert

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Can't speak for New Mexico but forget growing Gardenias here.. Between the heat, majority of soil type(s), ...esp. in the lower elevations,  and water quality,  someone might get a year or two out of them before they give up, or look horrible.  Root Knot Nematodes are also an issue here.   Might survive in large pots, kept in shifting shade / watered and fed properly though.

Even in CA, Gardenias can be hit or miss.. Sometimes you'll find great looking specimens that have done well for decades, while others start throwing temper tantrums after only a few years in the ground. 

Can't remember which ones but recall some varieties being less of a Prima Donna compared to others i sold. ...Want to say it was the single - flowering vars. which were tougher / less demanding of " perfect " conditions compared to others..

One thing is very true w/ all of them ..they HATE having their roots disturbed when planting / once planted which means planting nothing else, except maybe a non rooting ground cover near their root zones..

As picky as they can be -in the ground- i can't fathom trying to grow them indoors..

[Barry]

I have tried many varieties, now only grow the “Miami Supreme” and it is grafted. No luck with the other varieties. It has performed and bloomed consistently for me. It has a nice large fragrant flower. They will take some shade, or full sun.

[MSX]

Guys, is there any difference between this (Gardenia grandiflora (jasminoides) :

and this (Gardenia jasminoides)?

Thanks!

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 6/5/2023 at 5:36 PM, MSX said:

Guys, is there any difference between this (Gardenia grandiflora (jasminoides) :

and this (Gardenia jasminoides)?

Thanks!

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Think " grandiflora " is just a chosen reference for human- created hybrids which have more petals / larger flowers, compared to the species used to create the hybrids / cultivars..

If you look over the Genus on iNaturalist, " Grandiflora "isn't  listed among documented species.  G. jasminoides is ( listed )  and has 2 sub species / natural variants. 




Genus:  https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/126844-Gardenia

G. jasminoides:  https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/210990-Gardenia-jasminoides 

Appears Gardenia augusta was placed within / replaced by G. jasminoides recently as well..  https://www.inaturalist.org/taxon_changes?taxon_id=210990

Hope this is helpful..

[SailorBold]

  On 5/28/2023 at 5:42 PM, MSX said:

Hi, this topic is almost 4 years old, but still would love to hear more about experience with gardenia in NM.

Saw gardenia jasminoides here for sale the other day and wonder if those plants are worth purchasing at all, even as a houseplant if you live in the desert

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Fail.. and fail..  I decided to try as a houseplant.. and was able to keep for about 6 months.. slow decline.. I used an acid fertilizer half strength..  I got 3 blooms and that was it.  Had a grow light as well..  im still getting my rain barrel system up and running.  Got most of the gutter and downspout system finished.. I now have 3 ibc totes.. to collect. I may try another go with 100% rainwater... my tap water is alkaline.. and I think Nathan (Silas) may be on to something referencing chlorinated tap water.. but even my tap water is slightly alkaline too..   shrugs..

[Manalto]

  On 6/8/2023 at 12:58 AM, SailorBold said:

Fail.. and fail..  I decided to try as a houseplant.. and was able to keep for about 6 months.. slow decline...

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My grandfather, who was a skilled horticulturist, took pride in the fact that he could winter over a gardenia until it resumed its residency in his Massachusetts garden. Even he abandoned the project because of the plant's temperamental nature.

Gardenias thrive so well here in the humid Gulf Coast, I suspect that that humidity and acid soil are key to its success, even when neglected. Cold hardiness in 8B doesn't usually seem to be an issue, however, the 'Veitchii' by my back door was killed to the ground in the December freeze (high teens) last year, but the 'August Beauty' just a few feet away (and less protected) was unaffected. Not to rub it in, but cuttings jammed into some potting soil and left under a shrub will almost certainly root. Sooty mold is a common problem. That aside, once established, they thrive and bloom in sun or shade. 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Manalto

[miamicuse]

[miamicuse]

I planted two Gardenia vietnamensis along a 6' tall wood fence last year.  They are not doing very well, the new leaves are noticeably smaller, flowers are not fragrant (only a little),  they are getting full morning sun and shaded a bit in the afternoon, so not sure what's going on.  May be the full sun in Florida is too much.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 6/11/2023 at 3:45 PM, miamicuse said:

I planted two Gardenia vietnamensis along a 6' tall wood fence last year.  They are not doing very well, the new leaves are noticeably smaller, flowers are not fragrant (only a little),  they are getting full morning sun and shaded a bit in the afternoon, so not sure what's going on.  May be the full sun in Florida is too much.

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Soil profile ..and ( very likely ) Root Knot Nematodes..  Not much you can do about the nematodes, except adding Crabshell meal to the soil to help knock down their numbers, but you can add compost  ..not  wood mulch / Peat Moss..  around them to add a steady supply of nutrients to the soil as the compost is decomposed ( may help reduce nematode #'s also ) . 

If looking yellow, Provide EDDHA Iron 2x's or so / yr.  ( ..Specifically that formulation  because your soil likely contains a lot of Calcium, which = strongly Alkaline /  High pH = Gardenias hate that )

Related article : https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/selecting_which_iron_chelate_to_use