Cold hardy Caesalpinia pulcherrima

[Tomas]

I tried many times to grow this plant from seed readily offered for sale from the seed companies, but never got it through our rough winters. Than a friend from Texas told me that there was a variety capable of resprouting even if completely burnt from cold. I traded some seeds and now have this plant growing for almost ten years here in Rome. Two years ago I planted it in my garden near Rome and it survived two very cold winters with two hard freezes (-4 and -3°C) losing only some branch tips and flowering nonetheless. 

I cannot find any mention of this hardy variety, so my question is: is it commonly grown in places like California where maybe the tropical and tender variety cannot survive?

 

Tomas

[Silas_Sancona]

13 minutes ago, Tomas said:

I tried many times to grow this plant from seed readily offered for sale from the seed companies, but never got it through our rough winters. Than a friend from Texas told me that there was a variety capable of resprouting even if completely burnt from cold. I traded some seeds and now have this plant growing for almost ten years here in Rome. Two years ago I planted it in my garden near Rome and it survived two very cold winters with two hard freezes (-4 and -3°C) losing only some branch tips and flowering nonetheless. 

I cannot find any mention of this hardy variety, so my question is: is it commonly grown in places like California where maybe the tropical and tender variety cannot survive?

 

Tomas

Here in Arizona, these are grown everywhere, even in many cooler spots like Tucson where lows below 25F can occur more often than here in Phoenix, especially  within the general "urban heat Island".. If not cut back, some specimens reach 15ft in height within 2 years. More often, they are hacked nearly to.. / to the ground each winter, and rebound vigorously in early spring ( usually March here).  Those left alone could have a few flowers on them in December.  A specimen i'd hacked to the roots last winter is currently 9ft tall and full of flowers atm.. One tough shrub, imo..

Back in CA, specifically the Bay Area, i'd struggle getting smaller specimens through their first winter unless planted in a warm spot, in better draining soil.. That being said, i'd see occasional, larger specimens in older neighborhoods near downtown / on the east side of San Jose.. where they were left to their own, aside from being trimmed occasionally.. 

Further south, esp. away from the immediate coast, and in the relatively warmer parts of the Central Valley,  the growth pattern of these seems to mirror what i have observed here in the Desert, perhaps a little slower to resume spring growth in those spots compared to here..

Like you, i can't recall hearing of a "hardier" version of the standard red / yellow C. pulcherrima myself. Certainly possible that the lineage of some specimens could be traced back to originating from plants growing at the northern boundary / a location that experiences more temperature variation than others, thus imparting an advantage under particular circumstances.. Aside from that, i think it just comes down to the plant getting itself established... some are winners, some are wimps.. 

As common as it is, a worth-while plant in any garden regardless.. especially for attracting hummingbirds, butterflies, etc.. A real show-stopper when situated near a Royal Poinciana ( Delonix regia) in full bloom..

[Chester B]

Perhaps you have C. gilliesii instead, it looks pretty much the same.  it's grown here in Portland, Oregon without issue.  Text below is pulled from a local nursery's website.

 

Caesalpinia gilliesii
Bird of Paradise shrub is an incredibly showy flowering plant that is surprisingly adaptable to the Willamette Valley. Native to Argentina/ Uruguay the exotic large yellow flowers in whorls each with 3″ strings of blood red stamens protruding. Each flower lasts but a day but a truss carries many individual flowers. Fine divided foliage is light gray green and a great foil for the exotic flowers. Full hot, all day sun in a hot site. Ideally, it should be located against a south facing wall- this heat lover is slow to break dormancy in spring and doesn’t normally begin flowering until mid-summer and continuing until cool weather. To 8′ x 8′ drought adapted but water speeds growth. Deciduous. Spectacular.

Plant type: Shrub |  Sun exposure: Full Sun
Biome: Deer Resistance, Hot Aspects, Low Water/No Water |  USDA Hardiness zone: Zn7b 10º to 5ºF
Foliage color: Light Green |  Foliage season: Winter Deciduous

[Tomas]

2 hours ago, Chester B said:

Perhaps you have C. gilliesii instead, it looks pretty much the same.  it's grown here in Portland, Oregon without issue.  Text below is pulled from a local nursery's website.

 

Caesalpinia gilliesii
Bird of Paradise shrub is an incredibly showy flowering plant that is surprisingly adaptable to the Willamette Valley. Native to Argentina/ Uruguay the exotic large yellow flowers in whorls each with 3″ strings of blood red stamens protruding. Each flower lasts but a day but a truss carries many individual flowers. Fine divided foliage is light gray green and a great foil for the exotic flowers. Full hot, all day sun in a hot site. Ideally, it should be located against a south facing wall- this heat lover is slow to break dormancy in spring and doesn’t normally begin flowering until mid-summer and continuing until cool weather. To 8′ x 8′ drought adapted but water speeds growth. Deciduous. Spectacular.

Plant type: Shrub |  Sun exposure: Full Sun
Biome: Deer Resistance, Hot Aspects, Low Water/No Water |  USDA Hardiness zone: Zn7b 10º to 5ºF
Foliage color: Light Green |  Foliage season: Winter Deciduous

C. gillesii is commonly grown here in Italy, but is quite different, no way to confuse it with C. pulcherrima

 

Tomas

[Silas_Sancona]

6 hours ago, Tomas said:

C. gillesii is commonly grown here in Italy, but is quite different, no way to confuse it with C. pulcherrima

 

Tomas

Correct, very distinct compared to C. pulcherrima, which itself is distinctly different from some of the other Caesalpinia sp. ie: C. cacalaco, pumilla, palmeri,  platyloba etc.. 

[Xerarch]

All right I heard a background story of how a more cold hardy selection came to be, though I don’t know that it has a specific name. I worked professionally in the landscape industry in Arizona and am pretty well versed in what grows out there. This plant is native to tropical America including Caribbean islands. One common name for the plant is “Pride of Barbados” well, when someone wanted to cultivate the plant in Arizona, it didn’t make much sense to use a tender specimen from tropical Barbados. Instead, specimens were sought from Mexico in the coldest and driest parts of its range where conditions were closest to what one might experience in Arizona. This selection proved to be much more cold tolerant and is the one that will bounce back even after being beat back by frost. 

[Tomas]

Xerarch, great, this is the story I was hoping to read.

Still, interesting, there are not so many plants that may very so much in their hardiness according to the place they grow in. I am thinking about Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, Rhopalostylis etc

 

Tomas

[Tillandsjo]

Hey there!

I'm sorry if I'm bringing this topic back to life but I found it the best way to get in touch with the person who posted it since I'm still waiting for my account to be approved (would've messaged you privately but this is taking too long)..

Ok so..I was wondering if you know any precise information about this hardy variety you talked about in this topic or any site to buy seeds of this from?

I've tried to grow this plant from seed last year with no succeed (probably dead seeds) and want to retry this year..a variety like this would be perfect for winter. Thanks in advance! (P.s. I also live in Italy, if you could help me any way I'd appreciate it a lot)

[KsLouisiana]

On 4/10/2021 at 4:10 PM, Tillandsjo said:

Hey there!

I'm sorry if I'm bringing this topic back to life but I found it the best way to get in touch with the person who posted it since I'm still waiting for my account to be approved (would've messaged you privately but this is taking too long)..

Ok so..I was wondering if you know any precise information about this hardy variety you talked about in this topic or any site to buy seeds of this from?

I've tried to grow this plant from seed last year with no succeed (probably dead seeds) and want to retry this year..a variety like this would be perfect for winter. Thanks in advance! (P.s. I also live in Italy, if you could help me any way I'd appreciate it a lot)

Hey there! I have an 8' one here in Louisiana. It has seen some really extreme cold for us and grew back bigger the next year. I could send ya some seeds if you're still interested. 

[MikeB]

On 11/2/2018 at 2:28 PM, Tomas said:

I tried many times to grow this plant from seed readily offered for sale from the seed companies, but never got it through our rough winters. Than a friend from Texas told me that there was a variety capable of resprouting even if completely burnt from cold. I traded some seeds and now have this plant growing for almost ten years here in Rome. Two years ago I planted it in my garden near Rome and it survived two very cold winters with two hard freezes (-4 and -3°C) losing only some branch tips and flowering nonetheless. 

I cannot find any mention of this hardy variety, so my question is: is it commonly grown in places like California where maybe the tropical and tender variety cannot survive?

 

Tomas

I think you might be correct about a hardier variety of Caesalpinia pulcherrima.  In north east Florida my plants did not return from the roots after 25 degrees.  In past winters they would freeze to hardwood or to the ground but always grow back.  Not this time.

I was in Austin, TX (zone 8b) recently and saw them around town.  A friend of mine near Austin has plants that returned from single digit temps.  I got seeds but they have not come up yet.

 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

17 minutes ago, MikeB said:

I think you might be correct about a hardier variety of Caesalpinia pulcherrima.  In north east Florida my plants did not return from the roots after 25 degrees.  In past winters they would freeze to hardwood or to the ground but always grow back.  Not this time.

I was in Austin, TX (zone 8b) recently and saw them around town.  A friend of mine near Austin has plants that returned from single digit temps.  I got seeds but they have not come up yet.

 

 

If you didn't already,  and they don't pop within a couple weeks, you scratch up the seed coat with a dremel.  Been down that road a few times w/ these, and other Legume-type things w/ hard seed coats.

Regarding viability,  have germinated seed off these i'd had for over a couple decades ...though those particular ones didn't survive too much longer past the germination stage.  2-4yr old seed germinates just fine though..

Have a bag full of seed collected in '21 i need to do something with soon.