Does Tipuana Tipu stay evergreen at 26F in Florida?

[moponike]

Does the tipu stay evergreen at 26F? Does it lose its leaves in early spring in Florida?

I am interested in a fast, evergreen canopy tree but I find it very difficult to come up with alternatives to Tipuana Tipu in a 9b zone in Florida. If the tipu tree does indeed keep its leaves at those temperatures it seems to be the only fast alternative. Do you know of something else that can handle 25F, stay evergreen and grows fast and has some spread to it and stuff can grow underneath it?

[kinzyjr]

It's hard to beat a live oak.  If you go to Leu Gardens, the first thing you'll notice is that most, if not all, of the 10a-ish stuff they grow is protected by a high oak canopy.

[Botanicus]

There is a large Tipuana on the UF campus in Gainesville, it lost leaves & small branches last winter with lows in the mid-low 20's. Not sure how low they can go but that tree has persisted for at least 12 years and is 10m+ tall

[moponike]

13 minutes ago, Botanicus said:

There is a large Tipuana on the UF campus in Gainesville, it lost leaves & small branches last winter with lows in the mid-low 20's. Not sure how low they can go but that tree has persisted for at least 12 years and is 10m+ tall

Thats impressive. I've read quite abit about the Tipu tree but still dont quite understand how evergreen Tipuana really is in the winter in Florida at various temperatures. Does it lose its leaves whenever it hits below 32F? Or around 26-27F?

[moponike]

53 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

It's hard to beat a live oak.  If you go to Leu Gardens, the first thing you'll notice is that most, if not all, of the 10a-ish stuff they grow is protected by a high oak canopy.

I agree Live oak is pretty amazing in so many ways. I just hope to grow something thats a little faster. Tipuana tipu certainly is fast.

Edited October 24, 2018 by moponike

[Botanicus]

I think they're fine until the mid 20's, during warmer winters with just light frosts that tree looks unfazed.

[Silas_Sancona]

While i can't speak for areas further inland there, Tipu trees in my neighborhood in both Bradenton, and where i lived in Largo stayed green most of the winters i live in both places, only shedding leaves as new growth was starting to form. Adding to those observations, the few large Tipu specimens i have seen here in Chandler (Arizona) also stay green ..or mostly green through our winters, and a single, somewhat smaller Tipu that has grown in a yard for 22+ years back where i grew up in San Jose (CA.) also retained foliage through the winter there. Same thing with other trees i observed on trips down around San Diego / Los Angeles area.. 

That being said, obviously, if trees experience several days of temps below the 28F-26F range, trees might drop more leaves, perhaps you'd observe minor damage. As big as they can get, i'd imagine that they are tall enough (let alone have grown enough hard / mature wood)  that most of the tree is growing in air temps closer to or above 32F compared to colder temps closer to the surface ....especially if X cold spell is brief or occasional through a given winter.. Ultimately, i would suspect that real damage would occur after several days of  temperatures below say the 24-22F range and lower, though i believe some have reportedly survived lows as low as 18-19F.. The Specimen back in San Jose has survived at least 23-20F a couple times in the years it has grown there and that tree is under 25ft in height, somewhat small compared to the 35+ft trees in the neighborhood here in Chandler, and even bigger trees i recall from both Southern California, and back in Florida..

Another tree you might investigate is Peltophorum dubium. Another fast grower, gets.. huge.. Spectacular when in flower, and i believe it's hardiness is similar to Tipuana. Can't remember whether or not it dropped most or all foliage during the winter though. That said, i believe it is / was a commonly planted tree in inland spots like Orlando. The other Copper pod, P. pterocarpum is less tolerant of temps below 28'ish i believe. Thinking the wood is a little tougher than Tipuana as well, but not 100% certain of that.. I'm sure other members from FL. could further discuss that aspect.. Great tree regardless, just needs room to grow..

Lastly, while there are other choices, the one thing i like about using legume-type trees for canopy  is the fact that most fix nitrogen and fallen foliage will also add it to the soil.

Hope this helps..

[moponike]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

While i can't speak for areas further inland there, Tipu trees in my neighborhood in both Bradenton, and where i lived in Largo stayed green most of the winters i live in both places, only shedding leaves as new growth was starting to form. Adding to those observations, the few large Tipu specimens i have seen here in Chandler (Arizona) also stay green ..or mostly green through our winters, and a single, somewhat smaller Tipu that has grown in a yard for 22+ years back where i grew up in San Jose (CA.) also retained foliage through the winter there. Same thing with other trees i observed on trips down around San Diego / Los Angeles area.. 

That being said, obviously, if trees experience several days of temps below the 28F-26F range, trees might drop more leaves, perhaps you'd observe minor damage. As big as they can get, i'd imagine that they are tall enough (let alone have grown enough hard / mature wood)  that most of the tree is growing in air temps closer to or above 32F compared to colder temps closer to the surface ....especially if X cold spell is brief or occasional through a given winter.. Ultimately, i would suspect that real damage would occur after several days of  temperatures below say the 24-22F range and lower, though i believe some have reportedly survived lows as low as 18-19F.. The Specimen back in San Jose has survived at least 23-20F a couple times in the years it has grown there and that tree is under 25ft in height, somewhat small compared to the 35+ft trees in the neighborhood here in Chandler, and even bigger trees i recall from both Southern California, and back in Florida..

Another tree you might investigate is Peltophorum dubium. Another fast grower, gets.. huge.. Spectacular when in flower, and i believe it's hardiness is similar to Tipuana. Can't remember whether or not it dropped most or all foliage during the winter though. That said, i believe it is / was a commonly planted tree in inland spots like Orlando. The other Copper pod, P. pterocarpum is less tolerant of temps below 28'ish i believe. Thinking the wood is a little tougher than Tipuana as well, but not 100% certain of that.. I'm sure other members from FL. could further discuss that aspect.. Great tree regardless, just needs room to grow..

Lastly, while there are other choices, the one thing i like about using legume-type trees for canopy  is the fact that most fix nitrogen and fallen foliage will also add it to the soil.

Hope this helps..

Thanks alot. It is of great help. 

[Bennz]

How about Acacia elata? It grows in the mountains of NSW so gets hot and cold. It's a legume that increases soil N levels, and it grow in rainforest so allows other plants to grow around it. Also pretty cool looking, IMHO. Flowering is not as dramatic as Tipuana though. Foliage on one of my trees with Acacia dealbata foliage (in my hand) for comparison;

 

 

 

[moponike]

Bennz, Acacia Elata certainly seems like an interesting option. Can it handle the humidity of Florida? Whats the width of a typical mature tree?

[chinandega81]

I was just wondering, why is Tipu tipuana so uncommon in South Florida? Aparently it's around....but considering how common it is in zone 10a in AZ and CA...and that it comes from South America...I cant understand why it isn't one of the commonly planted trees throughout most of Florida, considering it's cold tolerance. Does anyone have any idea?

[Silas_Sancona]

2 hours ago, chinandega81 said:

I was just wondering, why is Tipu tipuana so uncommon in South Florida? Aparently it's around....but considering how common it is in zone 10a in AZ and CA...and that it comes from South America...I cant understand why it isn't one of the commonly planted trees throughout most of Florida, considering it's cold tolerance. Does anyone have any idea?

Only thing i can think of is maybe it doesn't like the soil in far south FL..  Were very common around Bradenton/ Sarasota, and across Pinellas County/ St. Pete.  Planted one i'd started from seed -collected in Vista- at the house i lived in in south west Bradenton. Had grown quite a bit last time i checked. 

[chinandega81]

8 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Only thing i can think of is maybe it doesn't like the soil in far south FL..  Were very common around Bradenton/ Sarasota, and across Pinellas County/ St. Pete.  Planted one i'd started from seed -collected in Vista- at the house i lived in in south west Bradenton. Had grown quite a bit last time i checked. 

Not sure. We have sandy soil as does most of Florida. 

[RedRabbit]

I’m not really sure. There are more Delonix around here than Tipuana, despite Tipuana being the much better option for the climate. I suppose it just hasn’t caught on? There’s not always a good reason for this stuff. 

[Silas_Sancona]

14 hours ago, chinandega81 said:

Not sure. We have sandy soil as does most of Florida. 

Sandy soil yes, but it's the chemical composition that might make the difference -if soil is the limiting factor there.. Quartz, which makes up the "Sugar White" sand of most of the state is considered Acidic. "Sand" of ..say Miami and the Keys is mostly Shell, fragmented Coral, and fragmented Oolite which are all highly alkaline.. This is the only factor  i can think of  that would be a reason this species isn't used much the further south you go in FL.  Intolerance to Alkaline soil ..and salt.. is referenced in the book " Flowering Trees of Florida", Published by Mark K. Stebbens back in 1999. The species is said to do better in areas of Florida with more rich, Sandy Loam.  Might explain why they flourish in many parts of CA. as well..

7 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

I’m not really sure. There are more Delonix around here than Tipuana, despite Tipuana being the much better option for the climate. I suppose it just hasn’t caught on? There’s not always a good reason for this stuff. 

Apparently, Tipuana have been grown in FL. since the early 1900's, About the same time it was first grown CA. The old Reasoner's Nursery in Bradenton may have been the first to cultivate it.  Been utilized by Disney since -at least- the late 60s/early 70s.. Original FL. specimen was supposedly planted by Disney as well ( The specimen in the Animal Kingdom's Asia area )

 

[chinandega81]

Well if it doesnt take well to alkaline soil that would be the reason it isn't in South Florida for sure! Thanks for that, I had no idea.