HELP ID BLACK BAMBOO

[RRONNIE]

Hi all, novice with Bamboo - your help in ID please:

I am growing this black bamboo for 5 - 6 years.

I was told (when i bought it) that it is Bambusa lako (Timor Black) which was suppose to develope (the Canes) to 4" in diameter, hight 40 - 50.

But, in the last 5 years, the thickest new ones got to 1/2" max. in diameter and 9' - 10' high!

So i checked and it also looks like Phyllostachys Nigra “Black Bamboo. The "literature" says: 2 inches in diameter and up to 40 feet in height - naaaaaaa, does'nt look like mine...

So, what is it ??? - maybe still, Bambusa lako, and i'm too impatient, and, it will be like it is said in the literature ??? when ???

Four pictures follow.

Thanks for help,

Ronnie

[RRONNIE]

And 2

[RRONNIE]

And 3

[RRONNIE]

And 4

[Dypsisdean]

Definitely not 'lako.' 'Lako' is a clumper. So is the other black, Gigantochloa atroviolacea. It has to be Phyllostachys Nigra. The canes would be bigger if older and more room to roam.

http://www.lewisbamboo.com/pblack.html

[chris.oz]

I am with Dean on this.  Even though Bambusa lako starts off  at smaller diameters it does get much bigger over time and has a clumping habit.  

Bamboo likes rich soil with plenty of moisture and warmth to grow to its maximum calibre.  Here in Melbourne Phyllostachys Nigra looks just like in your images when growing in sandy soil.

[RRONNIE]

Thanks Dean & Chris - But, now i am a bit confused (still).

You said " 'Lako' is a clumper" - as opposed to 'Phyllostachys Nigra', i guess - But in "the literature" Phyllostachys Nigra is also described as a Clumper - quote: "Growth Characteristics - Clumping" - see (for example): http://www.junglegiants.co.uk/acatalog/Phy...chys_nigra.html

And another matter - if 'Phyllostachys Nigra' - which kind ???

It does look like:'Daikokuchiku', as well as 'Hale', as well as 'Muchisasa', as well as 'Othello', as well as 'Punctata'. See division and description:

http://www.americanbamboo.org/Species....stachys

Heeelllppp ! ???

Chris - my black bamboo does have "rich soil with plenty of moisture and warmth" (this is Hasharon "province", in Israel - best rich soil + moisture + great climate - the province of orange orchards and strawberry fields forever - see my palms...) and still the results are in front of you - far (yet) from "literature" descriptions - should i read to my black bamboos their "literature" descriptions ???

Thank,

Ronnie

[ibreakforpalms]

Don't know what type of bamboo that is.  Bambusa lako usually has some green stripes on the culms.  I have a young clump in my yard.  Starts out dark chocolate brown, then eventually turns a glossy black.  Very upright grower.

I would e-mail a picture to Robert at Tropical Bamboo here in Florida.  He could probably identify it for you.  Thier e-mail address is info@tropicalbamboo.com and the web address is www.tropicalbamboo.com.  Good Luck!

[chris.oz]

(RRONNIE @ Apr. 22 2007,20:21)

QUOTE

Thanks Dean & Chris - But, now i am a bit confused (still).

You said " 'Lako' is a clumper" - as opposed to 'Phyllostachys Nigra', i guess - But in "the literature" Phyllostachys Nigra is also described as a Clumper - quote: "Growth Characteristics - Clumping" - see (for example): http://www.junglegiants.co.uk/acatalog/Phy...chys_nigra.html

And another matter - if 'Phyllostachys Nigra' - which kind ???

It does look like:'Daikokuchiku', as well as 'Hale', as well as 'Muchisasa', as well as 'Othello', as well as 'Punctata'. See division and description:

http://www.americanbamboo.org/Species....stachys

Heeelllppp ! ???

Chris - my black bamboo does have "rich soil with plenty of moisture and warmth" (this is Hasharon "province", in Israel - best rich soil + moisture + great climate - the province of orange orchards and strawberry fields forever - see my palms...) and still the results are in front of you - far (yet) from "literature" descriptions - should i read to my black bamboos their "literature" descriptions ???

Thank,

Ronnie

Ronnie,

I must say that I assumed your soils were poor.   But I guess sometimes we make assumptions.   But it is true that your Phyllostachys is growing  similarly to when its grown here on sand.

However,  thats not to say that all forms of this species will grow the larger size canes.  Thats another assumption.

I think Phyllostachys is classed as a "runner" and your planting shows it,  especially if you planted just one plant originally.

Check this out:

http://www.redcloudbamboo.com.au/black_bamboo.html

[chris.oz]

I have 2 plants of Bambusa lako.  They have yet to produce a culm more than 25 mm and at present they are GREEN.    They are a little cold sensitive copared with Phylostachys nigra

[bahia]

It looks very much like regular Phyllostachys nigra to me, and the growth habit after five years would also seem to indicate that you are under watering and fertilizing it.  Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, Black Bamboo would already be sending up culms at least twice as thick as yours and 2 to 3 times as tall with regular summer irrigation.  If this plant gets full hot sun and lots of wind, this may explain the lack of vigorous growth.  You probably can't give Black Bamboo too much water in a mediterranean climate, treat it like a lawn and fertilize it monthly, and see if it doesn't start to take off.

[ianedwards]

All phyllostachys species have a vertical groove running up the culm between the internodes and they are all runners. No  bambusa species have this groove and they do nut run. Look for the groove!       Ian Edwards

[Kris]

Dear Ronnie  

iam no plant expert so as to help u on this.but what you are

growing is simply very beautiful.and i have not seen them around in india.

thanks & Love,

Kris  

[RRONNIE]

Thanks all for helping and answering.

Some comments on your comments:

I am sure now it is Phyllostachys Nigra - there is a "vertical groove running up the culm between the internodes" (as per Ian and "literature").

After checking David (BAHIA) 3 comments with "local expert":

1. Regarding "under watering and fertilizing it" - indeed i was under watering and fertilizing it - matter of fact no fertilizing at all - thought it will respond like my palms (no fertilizing at all, cause the soil is considered so rich - see picture - and belive me - not a drop - not a pinch of fertilizing in the last 12 years...)

2. Regarding  "If this plant gets full hot sun and lots of wind, this may explain the lack of vigorous growth", Well, it gets full sun 1/3 of a day only and it is positioned so there's no wind al all affecting it !!!???

3 Regarding "You probably can't give Black Bamboo too much water in a mediterranean climate" - i did not understand the comment.

Anyway , i am going to increase watering and start fertilizing the bamboo (maybe i should start fertilizing  the palms too ???)

Regarding Chris 2 remarks:

1. "I think Phyllostachys is classed as a "runner..." In most "literature" Phyllostachys Nigra is classed as a "runner", but in some sites (and "literature") certain sub species are classified as "clumper"...  Hence, my request to ID: 'Daikokuchiku', or 'Hale', or 'Muchisasa', or 'Othello', or 'Punctata - I'm still trying to figure which one is mine... ???

2. "...  and your planting shows it(a runner),  especially if you planted just one plant originally" - The fact is that what you see in the picture of my original posting (and Which looks like a "runner), is composed of five (5) bamboo pots removed & planted to this location" - so, maybe a clumper ? - That's also another assumption...

If you - or anybody else can respond and/oe assist more - please do.

Thank you all again,

RONNIE

[osideterry]

You seemed to have it very contained anyway, but I've only heard Phyllo' referred to as a runner. In a space that narrow, B. lako could be trouble.

I'm wondering how choked in P. nigra will be in a few years. What's that rectangular thing on the ground? Is it a drip system? That might be need to go to make room for more/bigger culms.

[chris.oz]

Hi Ronnie,

I have to say that I had no idea there were so many "named" forms of P. nigra and my comments so far are based on observations of P. nigra in a neighbours garden.  So I pretty much am at the end of my ability to comment further.

Cheers.

[RRONNIE]

Chris, well done - really appreciate - hope to have your input in further issues.

Thanks - Toda (In Hebrew),

Ronnie

[Paul S]

Definitely Phyllostachys nigra, though some of the selected forms mentioned often leave much to the imagination as anything else.  This is probably the #1 grown bamboo in the Uk, for whatever reason - not one of my favourites.

Running VS clumping is to do with the way the rhizome behaves.  With a 'clumper' a new shoot of rhizome grows from the side of an existing shoot and extends with a small upward curve, the end of which forms the new cane.  It never really travels very far from the parent plant, and the next new growth is formed from that (and the other old growths).  So outward progress is slow and even.  These are called 'pachymorph' rhizomes.

With a 'runner', the new rhizome growth is a long running, snaking thing, from which arise side shoots that grow upwards and form new canes.  The rhizome keeps on a-travelling lengthways.  ALL phyllostachys bamboos have running-type rhizomes and the growth style is called 'leptomorph'.  

In cool climate conditions, like the UK, the distinction between a 'runner' and a 'clumper' is hazy in terms of observed growth rate - as a general rule bamboos grow much faster in very hot wet conditions, not seen here that often.  But plant a phyllostachys in a hot climate and 'BANG' off they go out of the blocks - stand back.  New rhizomes will go offf for many metres, throwing up new canes in a straight line as they travel.

[chris.oz]

Cool, no problems Ronnie, talk to you anytime.

[bahia]

Ronnie,

What I meant by my comment is that you could water this bamboo every day if you wanted, (assuming you have good drainage), and the bamboo would love it.  The more summer irrigation they receive, the larger they grow.  Black Bamboo is often considered to be a more restrained running type, at least in comparison to thugs like P. aurea, but does seem to prefer better cultural conditons to look its best.  I'd suggest topdressing your planter with mulch with organic manure like chicken manure, and leave the dried leaves on top as a mulch.  

In sandy soils that don't retain water, it may even be best to water twice a week for a good long soak to get more growth.

[RRONNIE]

Hi Terry,

Yes it is an "over ground"  drip system - "hovering" (an inch over Tuff pebbles) and not placed, resting upon the groung, for ease of accessibility & maintenance reasons - same system with my palms - "hard water" and "heavy soil" = frequent blockage etc. - Best for my area conditions and it is not obstructing any cane's growth - at the most it goes i sentimeter left or right when shooting out.

Thanks,

Ronnie

[RRONNIE]

Thank y'all for responding and assisting and advising.

Question - what kind of fertilization is recommended - i think "organic manure like chicken manure" is forbidden in israel - i'll check.

Ronnie

[osideterry]

I use lawn fertilizer, since bamboo is basically a giant grass. I prefer lawn fertilizer with less nitrogen percentage to avoid burning. (example: 18-6-12, not 30-4-4) The higher N stuff makes a lawn green instantly, which is not important for bamboo.

[RRONNIE]

Thanks Terry - will try to get it here.

Ronnie

[osideterry]

The instructions on the bag will be for lawns. I'd err on the side of underfertilize rather than over. Burnin' them is a bummer.

[tank]

P. nigra is considered to be a passive runner and easier to control than many of the other Phyllostachys.

[RRONNIE]

Thanks Jason - that's reassuring - now i'm gonna change watering and fertilizing quantities and hopefully i'll yield thicker & higher stems.

Thanks again,

Ronnie.