8 hours ago, Than said:

Oh wow I could write a poem about this tree. This is exactly what I need. Ramified, umbrella shaped, airy, light shade, tropical vibes and evergreen! Apparently not invasive. However impossible to find outside the US. Even on Ebay and etsy I only found one seller of seeds.. 

As long as the seeds are legitimate it shouldn’t be a difficult to germinate. They are one my easiest trees to grow. Those pictures are from the Davis Mountains of West Texas. The area looks green after receiving 6 inches (150mm) of rain in a month, an extremely rare occurrence . That is the approximate rain total of all of 2024, although 15 inches(380mm) is normal.  They grow quickly in Central Texas where I live  with additional water, but are a small to medium tree at most.

4 minutes ago, Meangreen94z said:

As long as the seeds are legitimate it shouldn’t be a difficult to germinate. They are one my easiest trees to grow. Those pictures are from the Davis Mountains of West Texas. The area looks green after receiving 6 inches (150mm) of rain in a month, an extremely rare occurrence . That is the approximate rain total of all of 2024, although 15 inches(380mm) is normal.  They grow quickly in Central Texas where I live  with additional water, but are a small to medium tree at most.

It's a beauty! I may try the seeds but I don't know if my 4 ft tall archontophoenix cunninghamiana and all my other plants that are suffering under our scorching sun right now can wait that long

Than, I haven't followed this whole thread, but have you considered a pink Tabebuia ?   The best canopy tree for Southern California imho; low water, handsome even when not in flower, non-invasive roots, spectacular flower display.  Or how about one of the Brachychitons?  Tough as old boots, low water needs, lush and green, decent growth rate, non-invasive roots, some have very impressive flower displays.  Seems like they would be much easier to  source as well

 

4 hours ago, Than said:

I went to a nursery today and discussed evegreen tree options. The owner recommended either ficus nitida or schinus terebinthifolius. He said the latter can def take light frosts, while the former may burn a bit on the edges but won't die. The carob tree is very slow he said... 

Would avoid Bazillian Pepper at all costs..  VERY invasive, ask anyone in Florida just how much they hate it... Sap can give anyone sensitive to the chemical components in it a very nasty rash ( ..Anything in the Genus Schinus is closely related to Poison Oak / Ivy / Sumac )  Some people suffer very bad reactions when these flower as well,  and forget burning -any- wood you might remove as it grows ( Can cause even worse allergy- related responses,  in the lungs )


Ficus nitida ( microcarpa ) would be a good option, and hopefully wouldn't burn they way they do here during the summer ( ...Because of our heat )

Definitely not slow -if you water them well right out of the gate,   and can get pretty big in a reasonable amount of time.  Are a little cold sensitive but,  ..unless it drops to / below ..roughly 25 or 6F for an extended amount of time, the worst damage you might see ...On mature trees... is some burnt up leaves here and there among the overall canopy. 

Aside from the last major freeze here that did fry many of these ( Most came roaring back as soon as it warmed up that year ) it is our extreme heat that has killed more of these -since i've been living here- than any cold experienced. 


Carob slow??.. Wasn't my experience w/ these back in California, esp. if provided a deep soak say 2 times per month thru the summer..  Can get massive, but retain a pretty tight footprint. Shade produced below the canopy on them is quite dense    ....possibly too dense for other stuff growing below a bigger tree that needs some  sun. 

Only obvious drawbacks are the pods ( ..on female trees ) Big, thick, and sorta stinky ...they can be harvested and processed though. ( Look up " Carob Chocolate " ) 

Flowers on male trees produce a   ....lets just say  ...." distinctive "... scent.  Not sure where folks who make the assumed connection got the idea but,  ..I myself think they smell like some kind of " Bleach-y ",  hard on the nose cleaning detergent,  rather than some of the other thoughts on what they smell like..  Scent carries a long distance too. 

...All that said,  ..and i myself don't think you'd encounter the same issue there,  surprisingly, Carob  -majority of what i've seen so far at least-  do not like the desert  ..our part of it at least.  Far superior options to choose from, that shrug off our special flavor of heat anyway..



Don't recall hearing of the 1st Arbutus sp, -on it's own at least-  but unedo ( ..and the cross between it and the 1st species ) are quite commonly planted in California,  are beautiful  ...and well behaved / easy to train.   A. unedo does ..or at least can.. produce quite a bit of fruit,  ...but it really isn't that big of a mess maker.. 

Cross generally fruits less / fruits are smaller than unedo and it often grows a bit faster / taller/ wider.  I'd imagine it should be sold there so, you might ask around..

Both are much easier to grow than any of the " Madrone " species native to the U.S. / Mexico. 

General reference regarding Arbutus x " Marina "  from a well respected source to glean trustworthy info from regarding it:  https://www.smgrowers.com/products/plants/plantdisplay.asp?plant_id=157

 

2 hours ago, Peter said:

Than, I haven't followed this whole thread, but have you considered a pink Tabebuia ?   The best canopy tree for Southern California imho; low water, handsome even when not in flower, non-invasive roots, spectacular flower display.  Or how about one of the Brachychitons?  Tough as old boots, low water needs, lush and green, decent growth rate, non-invasive roots, some have very impressive flower displays.  Seems like they would be much easier to  source as well

 

Thank you Peter! Tabebuia is a beautiful tree indeed but from what info I can find, it will be deciduous in my climate, which is more like that of central or northern California. I'd rather plant an evergreen to protect the plants below from frost.

Brachychiton populneus is very common here but all the specimes I see have a columnar shape with very narrow canopies.

2 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Ficus nitida ( microcarpa ) would be a good option, and hopefully wouldn't burn they way they do here during the summer ( ...Because of our heat )

Definitely not slow -if you water them well right out of the gate,   and can get pretty big in a reasonable amount of time.  Are a little cold sensitive but,  ..unless it drops to / below ..roughly 25 or 6F for an extended amount of time, the worst damage you might see ...On mature trees... is some burnt up leaves here and there among the overall canopy. 

Aside from the last major freeze here that did fry many of these ( Most came roaring back as soon as it warmed up that year ) it is our extreme heat that has killed more of these -since i've been living here- than any cold experienced. 
 

Ficus microcarpa has all the attributes I need but it has very destructive roots. It will be about 5m from a retention wall (my property is on a slope) and the risk of damaging it is big. I can't be bothered with root barriers either, too much effort. I am wondering if F. rubiginosa would be a safer option but still has big and strong roots.

Arbutus Marina is known here as A. andrachnoides; a hybrid between unedo and andrachne. All three are slow growers and in Greece they are sold small, like 10-15 inches tall. I don't want to wait 10 years for canopy.

You are right about carob. I went under one today by coincidence and checked the light using an app; it was only about 300 FC; like in a dark room. All nurseries told me it is very slow too.. dunno.

Perhaps I should suck it up, plant deciduous trees and cover them with shade cloth in the winter to mimic a canopy for the sensitive plants underneath... will look crap but it may do the job.

30 minutes ago, Than said:

Ficus microcarpa has all the attributes I need but it has very destructive roots. It will be about 5m from a retention wall (my property is on a slope) and the risk of damaging it is big. I can't be bothered with root barriers either, too much effort. I am wondering if F. rubiginosa would be a safer option but still has big and strong roots.

Of the two, rubiginosa is much bigger,  though there are some big nitida / microcarpa specimens in the neighborhood / area.  Root spread will be similar on both regardless ad i too wouldn't waste $ on installing a barrier to " stop " them, ...cuz' it won't.  Don't care what someone w/ minimal experience w/ large Ficus might think.  When a Ficus wants water, it will tear through just about anything to access it.. 24-36" deep x 3" thick Plastic barrier be dammed. 

I do notice that nitida isn't quite as aggressive root- wise in some neighborhoods where they're planted but, that's likely more of a result from water being with held from those specimens, than the individual trees being " tamer " 

With that said, many neighborhoods have forbid them from being planted ..because of the root aggressiveness so, yeah, ..unless you've got the space, i too wouldn't plant one, even though standing in the shade below big specimens is an impressive sight. 


As mentioned, while maybe not the best option for plants hat want a little sun ( though one can thin the canopy a bit ), Carob are great shade for honest to goodness shade lovers.. Thick canopy on big specimens offers great cold protection too.. 

Unless a true, temperate - climate winter season leaf dropper, remember that " deciduous " can be subjective sometimes,  depending on year to year weather variation / location..

Sometimes that aspect comes down to the specific tree.  What might totally defoliate in say my old neighborhood in California, may retain some -or a majority- of it's foliage through the winter ..warmer one esp.  here, ..or in an even milder place like FL. 



In reality,  if you have the room,  you could do both.. ..Something that might grow faster, but drops its leaves in winter,  and something slower that stays green thru the cooler months, like the hybrid Arbutus..  I myself like trees that will drop their leaves ..or at least thin a bit, during the winter ..when i want sun on tender -er things.  Full sun in the summer?,  No thanks.. 

Weird that your local nurseries wouldn't offer bigger sized specimens of it.   Sold everything from 6-8ft tall multi- branched babies in 5gal pots, to 10 -15ft tall trained " standards " ( Standard typically refers to a plant specimen that has been trained to have a ( generally ) branch - free,  single trunk of X or Y height between the base and underside of it's canopy ) in 15 gal or 24" - 40" containers. 

Should randomly suggest to your nurseries that they gotta catch up with the American growers, ha ha.. /s

9 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Of the two, rubiginosa is much bigger,  though there are some big nitida / microcarpa specimens in the neighborhood / area.  Root spread will be similar on both regardless ad i too wouldn't waste $ on installing a barrier to " stop " them, ...cuz' it won't.  Don't care what someone w/ minimal experience w/ large Ficus might think.  When a Ficus wants water, it will tear through just about anything to access it.. 24-36" deep x 3" thick Plastic barrier be dammed. 

I do notice that nitida isn't quite as aggressive root- wise in some neighborhoods where they're planted but, that's likely more of a result from water being with held from those specimens, than the individual trees being " tamer " 

With that said, many neighborhoods have forbid them from being planted ..because of the root aggressiveness so, yeah, ..unless you've got the space, i too wouldn't plant one, even though standing in the shade below big specimens is an impressive sight. 


As mentioned, while maybe not the best option for plants hat want a little sun ( though one can thin the canopy a bit ), Carob are great shade for honest to goodness shade lovers.. Thick canopy on big specimens offers great cold protection too.. 

Unless a true, temperate - climate winter season leaf dropper, remember that " deciduous " can be subjective sometimes,  depending on year to year weather variation / location..

Sometimes that aspect comes down to the specific tree.  What might totally defoliate in say my old neighborhood in California, may retain some -or a majority- of it's foliage through the winter ..warmer one esp.  here, ..or in an even milder place like FL. 



In reality,  if you have the room,  you could do both.. ..Something that might grow faster, but drops its leaves in winter,  and something slower that stays green thru the cooler months, like the hybrid Arbutus..  I myself like trees that will drop their leaves ..or at least thin a bit, during the winter ..when i want sun on tender -er things.  Full sun in the summer?,  No thanks.. 

Weird that your local nurseries wouldn't offer bigger sized specimens of it.   Sold everything from 6-8ft tall multi- branched babies in 5gal pots, to 10 -15ft tall trained " standards " ( Standard typically refers to a plant specimen that has been trained to have a ( generally ) branch - free,  single trunk of X or Y height between the base and underside of it's canopy ) in 15 gal or 24" - 40" containers. 

Should randomly suggest to your nurseries that they gotta catch up with the American growers, ha ha.. /s

Our nurseries here have like 1% of the variety you guys find over there.. and they cannot even name their species properly. The other day the lady at the nursery insisted that what she was selling was a "coconut tree". Obv it was a Syagrus. She was like "I dunno, that's just what everyone calls it"! 

Your idea about a combination of trees is not bad. It's just that I dunno what will be covering my little Ravenalas, tropical hibiscuses etc etc in the coming winter. Probably I will have to buy several metres of horticultural fleece.

17 hours ago, Than said:

I dunno what will be covering my little Ravenalas, tropical hibiscuses etc etc in the coming winter. 

Extra towels, older blankets ( ..or cut up pieces of... ) i have around  ..sometime propped up with stakes, and/or tied down,  or sometimes just tossed over the tops of for a night or 3..  are all i use to cover any smaller, cold sensitive stuff,  when i need to in the winter. ..Things planted in the ground at least.

 

Leucaena retusa in flower