Open pollenation of encephalartos in Florida

[carver]

I was wandering around the backyard today and found some hilldebrantii seedlings coming up from a cone a friend gave me. The plant wasn't hand pollenated and the seed came from a plant that has been known to throw male and female cones, but not at the same time.

I've heard there has been a pollinator found in south Florida but I don't think it has been found this far north, pinellas county.

Anybody have the same experience with encephalartos, do you think it could be from the fact the plant has been able to produce both types of cones?

[Mandrew968]

I have never heard of a Cycad producing both male and female cones but I am nothing of an expert on Cycads. I have seen hildebrandtii seedlings under female plants, to which I know no hand pollination occured. I have wondered this same thing--as far as I can remember, I have only seen this situation with hildebrandtii...

[George Sparkman]

In South Florida I have seen it where plants of both genders were close to each other. Out of all the seeds that were produced over quite a few years only a very, very few will sprout on the ground around the plants.

[Mandrew968]

George, I have taken out cycads from a person's yard that inherited the spiney things. One time in particular, I remember removing a large female hildebrandtii. I distinctly remember pulling up at least three babies about a foot or two from the base of the main caudex. This was the only Encephalartos in that yard and it was perplexing to me how those babies came to be... I have seen the same scenario at MBC, but there are plenty of male encephalartos to provide that pollen--I would bet there were no Encephalartos within a 1/4 mile radius from the female I found seedlings underneath( I know the difference between a seedling and a pup). I shared this experience with Jody (virtualpalm) but got no real answer, other than to say that he had never heard of a Cycad being hermaphroditic...

[carver]

I should have mentioned there were males present.

[George Sparkman]

George, I have taken out cycads from a person's yard that inherited the spiney things. One time in particular, I remember removing a large female hildebrandtii. I distinctly remember pulling up at least three babies about a foot or two from the base of the main caudex. This was the only Encephalartos in that yard and it was perplexing to me how those babies came to be... I have seen the same scenario at MBC, but there are plenty of male encephalartos to provide that pollen--I would bet there were no Encephalartos within a 1/4 mile radius from the female I found seedlings underneath( I know the difference between a seedling and a pup). I shared this experience with Jody (virtualpalm) but got no real answer, other than to say that he had never heard of a Cycad being hermaphroditic...

I agree with Jody.

[carver]

So far I have 5 seedlings from the cone and after cutting open 5 more seed there was definitely a suspenser in 3 of the 5 seed. While I'm doubtful it's from a hermaphroditic source, it does seem some sort of natural pollenator is present.

[George Sparkman]

That sure is good news.

If there are enough different insects (flying and crawling) and favorable air movement good things can happen. At that rate it is very, very rare and almost to the point of "did a trespasser jump the fence and hand pollinate" without you knowing ? Humor aside, that is really good and it would be great if it happens the next time.

[Mandrew968]

George, I have taken out cycads from a person's yard that inherited the spiney things. One time in particular, I remember removing a large female hildebrandtii. I distinctly remember pulling up at least three babies about a foot or two from the base of the main caudex. This was the only Encephalartos in that yard and it was perplexing to me how those babies came to be... I have seen the same scenario at MBC, but there are plenty of male encephalartos to provide that pollen--I would bet there were no Encephalartos within a 1/4 mile radius from the female I found seedlings underneath( I know the difference between a seedling and a pup). I shared this experience with Jody (virtualpalm) but got no real answer, other than to say that he had never heard of a Cycad being hermaphroditic...

I agree with Jody.

So George, what do you think happened to produce those babies? Maybe a pollinator of some sort? Like I said, the old lady that lived there had no interest in them as they were remnants of the past owner's collecting. She spoke no English and there were no Encephalartos anywhere around I could see--definitely not in her yard...

[George Sparkman]

I don't know Andrew. But it is remarkable.

[cycadjungle]

Since there aren't that many hilldebrandtii plants in St. Pete that have changed from female to male to female again, I know which plant you are probably talking about. The one in the back on the left side of the collector's property, right?

There are plenty of other enceph plants all around that garden, so stray pollen could have got in there by wind, but there is also a good chance of a cross over bug, like we are seeing with Cycas revoluta plants around here, that there could be a little pollination going on there. I do know that there are some plants being naturally pollinated around the Fairchild area in Miami, so we do know that this is happening, at least in south Florida.

This would have nothing to do with the fact that this plant changed it's sex expression in the past. Also, not to confuse this issue, but spontaneous production of a few good seeds in a cone has happened more than once in this species that I know of, even when no other coning encephs were anywhere around the parent plant. There is a very special name for this that escapes me right now, but this does apaprently happen. In this case, with more than a couple good seeds in the cone, pollen got in there somehow. Whether the seedlings will be pure hilldebrandtii or some unknown hybrid won't be obvious for quite a few years. Tom

[Mark lasvegas]

Parthenogenesis, I think...

Edited November 18, 2013 by Mark lasvegas

[Mandrew968]

Parthenogenesis, I think...

That is basically a natural clone.

[tropicalb]

there are almost always bugs running around inside encephalartos cones that i pollinate by hand..

chances of a seed or two being "naturally pollinated" (given the close proximity of shedding male cones) are completely within the realm of possiblity....

[edbrown_III]

I didnt think they could throw cones of two genders either but then I looked closer at this queen sago in St Augustine

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/38674-st-augustin-queen-sago/

look closely at first picture

Best regards

Ed

[tropicalb]

I didnt think they could throw cones of two genders either but then I looked closer at this queen sago in St Augustine

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/38674-st-augustin-queen-sago/

look closely at first picture

Best regards

Ed

those are two separate plants....look at the trunks...

[cycadjungle]

there are almost always bugs running around inside encephalartos cones that i pollinate by hand..

chances of a seed or two being "naturally pollinated" (given the close proximity of shedding male cones) are completely within the realm of possiblity....

This kind of thing happens a lot, but each location may be different on what pollinators are working in certain areas. As an example, dioons and ceratozamias don't naturally pollinate each other in my part of Florida, but it happens from time to time in some parts of southern Texas, where many of these larger plants were originally brought in many years ago. Our problem is with the weevils that were imported in the furfuracea stems decades ago and they will pollinate any of the "tan cone" zamias and the two weevilas that pollinate our coonties will sometimes pollinate the majority of the Carribean zamias. There are so many Encephalartos plants that have been brought into California over the decades, I don't doubt at all that there are insects pollinating those in southern California, but in central Florida, these same insects are far and few between. ( I could say non existant, but you really don't know for sure on things like this)

[edbrown_III]

I didnt think they could throw cones of two genders either but then I looked closer at this queen sago in St Augustine

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/38674-st-augustin-queen-sago/

look closely at first picture

Best regards

Ed

those are two separate plants....look at the trunks...

Not really it has always been a single plant that has frozen back and branched after sucessive cold snaps 2 different trunk branches one femal and one male for what ever reason probably cold trauma

Best regarfds

Ed

[Mandrew968]

I didnt think they could throw cones of two genders either but then I looked closer at this queen sago in St Augustine

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/38674-st-augustin-queen-sago/

look closely at first picture

Best regards

Ed

those are two separate plants....look at the trunks...

Not really it has always been a single plant that has frozen back and branched after sucessive cold snaps 2 different trunk branches one femal and one male for what ever reason probably cold trauma

Best regarfds

Ed

You would know better than I would, if you have seen it in person, but from the picture, it looks like there are two different Cycads...

[virtualpalm]

I agree that the Cycas in question appears to be two separate plants. To add to the head scratching, one of the few zamias that has not been known to be pollinated by any of the cycad pollinators here in Florida is Z. inermis. It is one of the few species that will not produce seeds when the female cone is not hand pollinated. This is a good thing here in south Florida, since so many other zamias are so apt to hybridize because of our two native pollinators plus the addition of Rhopalotria mollis, the larger weevil from Mexico. I collected several males cones of Z. inermis yesterday to pollinate my two females, and within an hour of putting the bag of cones in my truck I had a couple dozen R. mollis weevils flying around inside my truck and crawling around inside the bag containing the cones. This is obviously anecdotal because the insects have not been recorded in any female cones (that I know of), but it is the first step and not at all surprising, actually. I put the open bag of cones next to one of my females with several receptive cones and will observe it. I will let you know if I see weevils entering or exiting any of the female cones. I think I will also not pollinate one cone and see if it produces any fertile seed.

[Mandrew968]

Thanks for the informative post! And stay the heck away from my yard with all those weevils flying around you!!!

[virtualpalm]

They are harmless, Andrew... unless you are trying to produce pure Zamia seed. Here is a link to a short video that I took a couple years ago in my yard:

http://www.cycad.org/documents/Rhopalotria-mollis-on-male-cone.MOV

[Mandrew968]

As a palm guy, you know my hesitation with weevils... having said that, you are always welcome in my garden, Jody