Delonix Regia Help

[spockvr6]

While I was outside taking down some Christmas lights (I keep them on as late as possible for some extra heat in the event of a freeze) I was shocked to see that my prized Delonix looked like this    

This is seriouly disturbing to me as I really like this tree.

Does anyone have any ideas on how this happened?  Is it a case of just too much stress in the crotch and too much growth too quickly?  (This tree has been extremely fast.)    This is the only thing I can think of as this tree is otherwise very healthy.

[spockvr6]

I will add that this tree has not seen any temperatures less than 39F so I think we can rule out cold being a factor.

[Rusty on Pine Is.]

Larry…the tree split because of a weak point of attachment at a sharp V crotch…these structures generally have included bark, and so the two co-dominate stems on that branch do not grow together as one unit.

Sharp crotches are more a problem in fast growing trees because the vascular tissue actually will push it apart at quicker rate, and because the wood is generally less dense.…..any additional stress, wind or even excess water in the tissue will initiate further breakage.

Any remedies are purely mechanical…reduce the weight on each stem by removing no more than 1/3 of the branch mass…..don’t  “Head it Back” (called pollarding) by nubbing branches at the ends, instead remove smaller branches where they branch off of the next larger branch inward…..don’t paint the cuts, it can actually do more harm than good.

A cable can be installed with a turn buckle to stop back and forth movement, and in extreme cases a stainless steel through bolt with diamond (shaped) washers and nuts will also reduce further cracking.

Hope this helps.

[spockvr6]

Rusty-

Thank you for the reply.  It is much appreciated.

It seems like this "V" split is about to get alot worse.  I could easily pull on either of the forks and snap it right off.

And, the split runs fairly deep into the main trunk below the crotch.  So, I figured I might be left with nothing but a tall stump here shortly :-(

Do you think I should remove this tree and start over?

[Rusty on Pine Is.]

Larry, because the crack compromises vascular tissue, there is always the opportunity for wood rot organisms to colonise that area.

And, because this problem never goes away (ie, the wound  will probably never "heal" or grow together), any remedial measures like trimmimg will have to be on going.

If and when the tree get bigger that area will always be the weakest structural point of the oranism.

I have had more than one tree that has had the same problem, and opted to cut my losses.

If you do decide to replace it, always look for a tree that has a dominate stem, and the fewest sharp crotches...and it never hurts to start training the shape early after the tree has become established.

Good luck!

[spockvr6]

Rusty-

It looks like the chaimsaw will have to come out  This is going to kill me as this was absolutely my favorite things in the yard.

I did actually train this tree when it was smaller (as I grew it from a literal "stick") and made sure no competing leaders developed until a certain height (roughly 7-8 ft above the ground). I guess I should have kept pruning even higher and never let this crotch develop.  The pitiful part of all of this is that I actually read the AHS book on tree training/trimming etc but apparently it didnt sink in.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

Larry,

Ditto what Rusty said.  It is difficult to see exactly what to do without putting an eyeball on the tree.  What you might do is choose which one of these two leaders might actually be saved.  At that point you reduce them.  If one is to be removed later (maybe a year or two or three) it can be reduced greatly, maybe 50% or more.  Get threaded eye bolts and attach them through the trunks way above the split.  Get a come-along to pull the split trunks together.  When you have them where you want them, hopefully closing the split, you attach your stainless or heavy guying cable.  You might not need a turnbuckle.  You can tighten the cable by drawing up the nuts on the eye bolts.  Once the cable is in place remove the come-along.

Just below where you were able to bring the two split trunks together is where you drill clear through the trunk (or two split trunks).  This is where you insert your threaded rod.  When I have done it, I used as big of washers as I could get.  I also used two nuts on either side of the bolt as one nut sometimes has a tendency to loosen up as the tree expands under the washer.  Eventually the bark will grow around the washers and nuts, completely concealing the rod.  It is a good idea to remember where that rod is if you have to use a chainsaw later.  The trunk to be removed should be cut a little at a time leaving up to a year between cuts.

Delonix are extremely fast, not really expensive and yours appears to be pretty close to your house.  You could do all of the above and have a weak tree next to your house or you could buy a new one.  Without being there and with these few pics, I can't make that call.  Either might work perfectly.

I hope this was understandable and helps you out.  Good luck.

Jerry

[spockvr6]

Jerry-

Thank you for the reply!

Although I am upset about it, I think the best thing might be to remove the tree.  I say this as I noticed a few days ago that the tree started to look a little "wimpy" and lots of foliage had fallen off.  I chalked this up to the last cold snap (two nights of 39F).  

But, seeing how deep this crack goes down the main trunk, I suspect that the tree itself is now severely weakened.  Im home from work today, so I went outside a little while ago and eyeballed things to see how I might trim things up to try and salvage the tree and I am not sure it can be done and have the end result be anything but a pathetic looking tree which will be very oddshaped with all the growth offset to one side.  (There is one big strong branch below the lowest point of the split down the main trunk that looks like it could be saved.)  

Yes...this tree is semi-close to the house, but I kinda wanted it that way to have it "lean" out and add alot of shade.  (I saw this on another house and was copying them.)  Until today, this tree was doing its job perfectly!

So....while I let my initial "BOOHOO'ing" subside I guess I will think about what to do next.  Mostly, I am just flat out PO'ed at myself for letting these two competing leaders develop.  Had I selected one a year or so ago, this mess probably wouldnt have happened.

I will tale a few more photos and post them here.  Its hard to get overall shots of the tree, but Ill do my best.

[spockvr6]

Here are a few more pics......

The branch that appears salvageable is the one on the right with the white Christmas light strand wrapped around it.  The point where this branch meets the main trunk is below the bottom of the split.  

If I leave nothing but this branch on the tree, I believe I will have a very odd looking tree.

If I did this, would growth ever come back more vertically, or would the remaining branch become the new main leader?

[spockvr6]

Boy do I want to try and save this tree.

If I can successfuly pull the split back together using the methods above, will the growth above the split be "normal"?

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

Larry,

On the left trunk, top it just above the branch that goes over your gutter.  After that you could use the cabling system and you could have a nice tree again in 2 years. Totally remove the left branch in a couple years.  Just remember to lightly trim every year to avoid problemas in the future.

Geraldo

[spockvr6]

Jerry-

OK.....so maybe cut right here at the red line?

[spockvr6]

After the cut above......I would then cinch the two main leaders back together using the method described above.

After things start growing back 2 years as you noted), I would then go and completely remove the left trunk (the one which I cut at the red line in the photo above) and have the right trunk (the other side of the fork which has split) act as the new main leader?

[spockvr6]

(Jerry@TreeZoo @ Feb. 07 2007,13:21)

QUOTE

Just remember to lightly trim every year to avoid problemas in the future.

I was so hell bent on getting this tree to size I apparently neglected to follow some basic practices.

I trained it initially, but once all branches were 6-8 ft up, I let it grow naturally (with half a dozen or so prunes to lateral branches here and there).

[spockvr6]

Just went out and took a few more pics....the crack has gotten wider this AM

[Alan_Tampa]

cut it one foot below the split, then allow just one (1) central leader.  The scar will only be a memory on a year or so, as you will be hard pressed to find the surgical scars.  One leader. Larry.

Alan

[redant]

Larry, these guys can make amazing comebacks. This is mine that was trashed by Frances, then Jean, then Wilma. This tree is nowhere next to my home so I'm not concerned about the fact that the entire canopy is supported by the big branch on the right. The one that shows on the left is an artifact of it's previous life and it never really grew much from there, it's an illusion in this photo.

[redant]

(Alan_Tampa @ Feb. 07 2007,14:07)

QUOTE

cut it one foot below the split, then allow just one (1) central leader.  The scar will only be a memory on a year or so, as you will be hard pressed to find the surgical scars.  One leader. Larry.

Alan

I agree.

[spockvr6]

(redant @ Feb. 07 2007,14:18)

QUOTE

Larry, these guys can make amazing comebacks. This is mine that was trashed by Frances, then Jean, then Wilma. This tree is nowhere next to my home so I'm not concerned about the fact that the entire canopy is supported by the big branch on the right. The one that shows on the left is an artifact of it's previous life and it never really grew much from there, it's an illusion in this photo.

Doug-

Your tree is pretty much a carbon copy of mine.

If I cut the trunk a foot below the split, I would be left with only one big leader, and it is one that goes off the tree in the same position as the one that the hurricans left you.

Here is a Webshots album I made with photos of the tree.  As can be seen in the later photos, the "trimming crew" (aka my father and I) removed alot of the tree this afternoon in accordance (I think) with what Jerry posted above.

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/557509309LRIyak

[spockvr6]

(Alan_Tampa @ Feb. 07 2007,14:07)

QUOTE

cut it one foot below the split, then allow just one (1) central leader.  The scar will only be a memory on a year or so, as you will be hard pressed to find the surgical scars.  One leader. Larry.

Alan

Do you mean cut here (see the red line)?

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

Larry,

Ya done good.  The trunk you cut seems to be the heavier of the two, but it was over your roof so not a good candidate to remain.  Cable and bolt as best you can.  Keep the weight off the cut trunk by periodic thinning.

DON'T cut as in your post #20.  What they were suggesting is to cut 1 foot below the top of the split, but only as far as the split, leaving your dominant trunk.  I think this is removing too much.  Better to let the tree try to "seal" up, IMO.

Jerry

[spockvr6]

Jerry-

Thanks for the help.  It is much appreciated.

The trunk that was cut was definitely the heavier one, but it was the best candidate for sure.  In another month or so I was planning on trimming that side anyway since it was over the roof (although I didnt plan to trim it this heavily)!

I didnt have a long enough bolt in my garage to perform "Stage 2" (aka the cable and bolt part), but we temporarily used some rope to "squeeze" the two forks together as best as we could to at least relieve some stress off of the crotch.  And, the removal of all the weight off of the trunk above the crotch also helped quite a bit.

Doing all this cutting was painful though

[spockvr6]

(Jerry@TreeZoo @ Feb. 07 2007,16:33)

QUOTE

DON'T cut as in your post #20.  What they were suggesting is to cut 1 foot below the top of the split, but only as far as the split, leaving your dominant trunk.  

Ahhh....I see.

[Alan_Tampa]

No I meant where that line is but as Jerry has lots o chopping under his belt, his advice is probably more practical.  I do think that other lower lateral branch should go, does not seem to be a convenient location for people or the plant.

Alan

What do you think, Jerry?

[spockvr6]

(Alan_Tampa @ Feb. 07 2007,19:02)

QUOTE

 I do think that other lower lateral branch should go, does not seem to be a convenient location for people or the plant.

You mean cut here and here?

There will be no foliage left!

[spockvr6]

I do wonder about that lowest branch however....the crotch there doesnt look all that different than the one that has just split.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

You might lighten up that lower lateral, but at this point that branch is the only sure thing this tree has.

Jerry

[spockvr6]

You know what really stinks?  There are two more of these trees near me that are hulking monsters that have obviously had zero training at all.  One of them must be 40 ft high with branches all the way to the ground!  Yet, I havent seen any splits on it while mine, which I tried to train to some degree, is looking as above

[Jeff Searle]

Larry,

   Can I add my 2 cents worth? Cut the tree down. It is way too close to your house. Are you looking for more headaches?

Jeff

[spockvr6]

Jeff-

Your 2 cents have crossed my mind as well.

The "effect" I was trying for with this tree is having it "spill" over a bit away from the house and canopy over the side yard.  In saw another house which planted a Delonix like this and I liked how it looked, so I tried to copy it.

[redant]

(Jeff Searle @ Feb. 07 2007,23:49)

QUOTE

Larry,

   Can I add my 2 cents worth? Cut the tree down. It is way too close to your house. Are you looking for more headaches?

Jeff

I told Larry that when the tree was just a little guy but he insisted. Until you experience a hurricane or three you just don't understand the thought of having a big a$$ tree crushing through the roof of your home.

I have nothing of any magnitude within striking distance of my house.

[Walt]

Larry,

That's a real shame about your Delonix regia. I can't recall seeing a tree grow as fast as yours did, from the time lapse photos you used to send me.

My D. regia didn't/doesn't grow at nearly the rate as yours does, probably due to more shaded location and far less water and fertilizer.

However, as you know, my D. regia was decapitated (lost all of its crown) by Hurricane Jeanne. All I had was a vertical trunk sticking up. But in one growing season my tree regrew its entire canopy to where one would swear it never lost it. Hence, in lieu of digging it up completely, maybe you can head it all the way back and then see what happens. With the root system it now has it will probably grow like gangbusters.

On the other hand, that tree is just too close to your house and if it were to come back you will be constantly having to keep it in check.

Walt

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

Yup,

Many of us gave Larry that advice a year or more ago, but he wants it there.  Larry, I would not let the tree get so large as to loom over your house.  Keep it in the 15' to 20' range by working the top.  Let it grow sideways but not too tall.

Jerry

[spockvr6]

(Jerry@TreeZoo @ Feb. 08 2007,16:26)

QUOTE

Yup,

Many of us gave Larry that advice a year or more ago, but he wants it there.  Larry, I would not let the tree get so large as to loom over your house.  Keep it in the 15' to 20' range by working the top.  Let it grow sideways but not too tall.

Jerry

Yes...heres the old thread!

http://palmtalk.org/cgi-bin....39;st=0

[spockvr6]

After some deliberate thought, I think I will remove this tree.  It will be painful, but probably the wisest action when all is considered.

[spockvr6]

[gsn]

It be GONE!

[spockvr6]

(gsn @ Feb. 11 2007,18:46)

QUOTE

It be GONE!

And it be replaced by these palms.......

Dypsis

Ptychosperma

Carpentaria