Tillandsia simulata?

[edric]

Hi everyone, is this a giant form of T. simulata? this fell from a huge and very tall pine tree, it had attached itself to the bottom of a limb, and looks like it had a pretty good hold on things, we had 7.95 inches of rain in two days, plus extremely high winds, looks like there's seeds on it, but I don't know what to look for, Ed

[Gonzer]

Looks more like T. bartramii Ed.

[edric]

Looks more like T. bartramii Ed.

Thanks Greg, so you don't think these two are the same? This one and the smaller one I posted a few weeks ago, the flower sure looks the same, thanks, Ed

[Mandrew968]

This is Tillandsia simulata. Our only endemic species of Tillandsia. Me and my boys are collecting them all over the ground at Fort Wilderness. Merry Christmas Palmtalk!

[Gonzer]

Copied with permission from the author:

                                                      Tillandsia bartramii/simulata

 

In March 1979 Andrew Flower from New Zealand obtained seed labelled “T. bartramii complex - dwarf” from the BSI Seed bank. Over 20 years later he is still pondering the name but at least his plants are now adult and flowering.

 

In 1979 Lyman Smith was treating T. simulata as a synonym of T. bartramii. In 1982 in her PhD dissertation Sue Gardner split T. simulata from T. bartramii. Normally these dissertations are not accepted as valid publications by the botanic fraternity.  In 1986 in Selbyana 9: 130 - 146 T. simulata is NOT mentioned by Gardner in her Tillandsia Classification System! In 1994 in Selbyana 15:36 in De Rebus I,  Luther and Sieff showed them as separate species and I assume this legitimises Gardner’s Dissertation in 1982.

 

What are the differences? From photocopies of herbaria material sent to me by Harry Luther the main difference seems to be in a triangular leaf sheath for T. bartramii and a narrow-oval shaped leaf sheath for T. simulata.

 

At the Orlando Conference in 1996 Harry Luther spoke on the native Tillandsias of Florida. Part of a map printed in the “Proceedings” is shown here indicating where both species can be found.

 

On 4 July 1998 in Brom-l,  Kenneth Quinn reported on some fieldwork he had done. Remember he is not a Botanist and lost his original work on the subject and is reporting from memory. I quote ” The purpose of the trip was to find out if T. bartramii and T. simulata were separate species, at least to the extent that they could be separated on vegetative characteristics. In Flora Neotropica T. simulata is treated as a synonym of T. bartramii, but the more I read the more I wondered. After examining herbarium specimens at Marie Selby Gardens, and my field work, I am convinced that they are indeed separate. T. bartramii has very narrow leaves and the numerous leaves in the rosette are held almost vertically. T. simulata has fewer, broader leaves and they are recurved; they also are in a flatter rosette. T. bartramii is found mostly north of Kissimmee, T. simulata south.

The area around Kissimmee seems to be the home of a hybrid swarm, with those two species and T. fasciculata interbreeding rather freely.  In this area the 1989 freeze killed nearly all epiphytic specimens but those that rooted in the sandy soil fared much better, probably due to residual heat of the ground. T. setacea, abundant several years earlier, was almost gone.”

 

So looking at Andrew’s plants I believe that they are T.simulata, hoping of course that the seed was not originally collected in the Kissimmee area where we now know a hybrid swarm exists.

 

If anyone has access to Small’s original description of T. simulata in Man. South east. Fl. 270, 1503. (1933) it would be great to get a copy. Of even greater interest is the names that must be on labels on plants held in captivity in Florida. How many of you have checked?

[Mandrew968]

That's funny--I thought setacea and bartramii were hard to tell apart--now you give me this! Didn't know our only endemic was up for debate. What makes setacea so unique as a species? smaller and denser, I would guess--the redness in the sun too...

[Mandrew968]

Also funny you mention fasciculata. I have never seen any of them--just utriculata, like in this photo of it on the left with simulata.

[Mandrew968]

This was the nicest simulata we found. It is in the Miami Beach Botanical Garden Bog now--on a pond apple. 

[Mandrew968]

I just checked all the 'simulata' and the setacea and all the leaf bases look the same--not sure what triangular is and what's not. I need a reference point...

[Gonzer]

Andrew, the topic of the paper is the comparison of T. bartramii vs. T. simulata. I'm not sure where T setacea fits into the discussion.

The triangular leaf bases are verified by removing the leaf at the base and looking for a concave funneling at the point of attachment.

[Mandrew968]

Just read the Luther book on Florida's bromeliads. From that, I think I understand and believe I got the true simulata. The leaf base is concave. Bartramii is supposed to pup more profusely and also be a bit smaller. Sound ok? 

[SubTropicRay]

That's not a T. setacea flower so rule that one out.  I grow all of the Florida Tillandsia except the more tender T. pruinosa.  Do you have a closeup of the flower?  

[Mandrew968]

Yes, I agree--setacea it is not. I hope these help.

[Mandrew968]

Here is one I put in a tree, by the nursery. It has seed too.

[Mandrew968]

And this one is in the nursery--all were salvaged from the ground.

[Mandrew968]

Maybe this is for a different thread, but has anyone seen bulbosa set seed naturally in South Florida?

[Mandrew968]

Purple bloom!