Ranking rare encephalartos.

[Vincent]

Sure, the E. woodii is the rarest out there, probablly followed by E. latifrons right? Of course, E. hirsutus and E. heenanii are very endangered as well. If you could rank the top ten, would it look something like this:

1. E. wooddii

2. E. latifrons

3. E. hirsutus

4. E. heenanii

5. E. dolomiticus

6. E. dyerianus

7. E. nubimontanus

8. E. inopinus

9. E. eugene-maraisii

10. E. cupidus

Maybe your ranking is regional- some things might be easier to get in California vs Florida for example. What do you think?

[Jeff Searle]

I have a few Encephs, nothing in the top "10", but I'm really a Zamia guy, and I WOULD have a few in the top "10" for this group.

[virtualpalm]

Sure, the E. woodii is the rarest out there, probablly followed by E. latifrons right? Of course, E. hirsutus and E. heenanii are very endangered as well. If you could rank the top ten, would it look something like this:

1. E. wooddii

2. E. latifrons

3. E. hirsutus

4. E. heenanii

5. E. dolomiticus

6. E. dyerianus

7. E. nubimontanus

8. E. inopinus

9. E. eugene-maraisii

10. E. cupidus

Maybe your ranking is regional- some things might be easier to get in California vs Florida for example. What do you think?

Vince,

Rarity really depends on whether you are referring to in cultivation or in habitat. Some species are rare (or extinct) in habitat but relatively common in cultivation (E. woodii is one), while others are much more common in cultivation than in habitat. I can think of at least eight species that are less common in cultivation than several of the species on your list. They are, in alphabetical order, as follows:

E. brevifoliolatus

E. delucanus

E. equatorialis

E. marunguensis

E. poggei

E. schaijesii

E. schmitzii

E. septentrionalis

Then there is the E. 'Umgeniensis' plant that is thought to be closely related to E. woodii, and some geographic forms of certain species that are now extinct in habitat and quite rare in collections.

An interesting topic for sure. I look forward to seeing further responses.

Jody

Edited July 7, 2012 by virtualpalm

[virtualpalm]

I have a few Encephs, nothing in the top "10", but I'm really a Zamia guy, and I WOULD have a few in the top "10" for this group.

And what would be your top 10 zamias, Jeff?

Jody

[BS Man about Palms]

Have a E. poggei .... had? Have not looked in a while.. was glacially slow.

And 5 of the first 10 noted

[Vincent]

I have seen a few E. equatoralis and E. septentrionalis in Florida. The others listed- I do not know if they even grow here in Florida nor have I seen any of them for sale. Jody, do these varities listed (except for E. equatoralis and E. septentionalis) grow in Florida? Are they expensive to obtain? I have never seen an E. hirsutus or E. heenanii for sale for example, so I am curious would the market would be.

[DALION]

I have seen a few E. equatoralis and E. septentrionalis in Florida. The others listed- I do not know if they even grow here in Florida nor have I seen any of them for sale. Jody, do these varities listed (except for E. equatoralis and E. septentionalis) grow in Florida? Are they expensive to obtain? I have never seen an E. hirsutus or E. heenanii for sale for example, so I am curious would the market would be.

I have seen heenanii and hirsutus for sale in the $700-800 an inch from a private party and over $1000 an inch by a nursery owner. The rest of your list can be found for less than $300 an inch even latifrons can be had for less than $400 an inch. Jody has much harder to find stuff on his list but those are also readily available (except the first two) at cycad nurseries in So Cal.

Leo

[rprimbs]

I have no idea what I'm doing but here is my attempt.

E. Woodii

E. relictus

E. brevifoliolatus

E. hirsutis

E. heenanii

E. latifrons

E. dolomiticus

E. inopinus

[virtualpalm]

Vince, the middle grouping in my list (E. marunguensis, E. poggei, E. schaijesii, E. schmitzii) are all small, Central African species. They should all grow very well here in south Florida. I have heard of E. heenanii and E. hirsutus being for sale in CA, but they have been way too expensive for me to afford.

BTW, Richard, I should have also had E. relictus on my list. Thanks for adding that one.

Jody

[Palmzilla]

Hirsutus will always be king, they are the best looking rare cycad period. The rolls royce of cycads!

[cycadjungle]

Vincent, the two you mentioned, hirsutus and heenanii, are not seen in Florida much because they are expensive and for the most part, people in Florida don't spend as much money for cycads as do people in California, but mostly because these are the least likely to do well in Florida.

E. heenanii doesn't really grow very fast anywhere, but put it in a wet, humid location, you get a better chance of rotting inbetween the flushes we might get every few years or so.

I was told by Johan Hurter, who described the species, that this plant is very habitat specific, and may be a difficult grow unless you have exactly what it wants. There again, they have a much better chance with this in southern California. I know I won't be attempting to grow either of these. I can't afford to spend a lot of money on a plant, just to watch it slowly die.I stopped buying expensive land fill a decade ago. My main goal is still trying to propagate cycads, and trying to get either of these to make seeds would be close to impossible without having a totally climate controlled greenhouse.

For the rest of the list, some may still be a bit slow, like with the inopinus, but they will do just fine, especially in a much warmer spot than I have to grow them in.

So Jody, what do you think on Zamias? How about something like:

Zamia melanorrhachis

disodon

hymenophyllidia

urep

ulei

monticola

wallisii

amplifolia

montana

pseudomonticola

I wasn't sure about this last one because of the somewhat recent finding of seeds and seedlings, so I guess I might throw in one of these next 3 as being number 10.

chigua, lacandona, or gentryi

So Jeff, you have quite a few of these species?

[George Sparkman]

E. relictus

E. brevifoliolatus

E. woodii

E. hirsutus

E. heenanii

E. dolomiticus

E. latifrons

The entire E. poggei complex is not easy get (some species harder then others) and not the easiest to grow in California.

Happy growing,

George Sparkman

cycads-n-palms.com

[BS Man about Palms]

Yes, On Saturday I confirmed my E. poggei is bereft of life...

[BS Man about Palms]

Which begs the question... where does the good old Microcycas stack in this arena?

[MichaelS]

Not very high among Encephalartos Bill

But within cycads it would of course make the list.

Michael

[Vincent]

I have seen microcycas growing well in Florida. There are a couple nice ones in Sarasota at Marie Selby Botanical Gardens. I was impressed with the E. hirsutus. Too bad it does not like Florida. I think maybe the E. heenanii might do okay here in Florida with the right ingredients. I have seen some nice E. dolomiticus growing in Florida as well as E. woodii and E. latifrons. As for:

E. brevifoliolatus

E. delucanus

E. marunguensis

E. poggei

E. schaijesii

E. schmitzii

E. relictus

I have a lot more looking into to do. I barely know enough about encephalartos and less about zamias. If anyone is gorwing these in Florida and wants to share a photo or growing tips that would be good.

[JeffP]

Woodii, hirsutus, heenanii, relictus, brevifoliolatus, dolomiticus, delucanus, latifrons, humilus, marunguensis

[Jeff Searle]

Vincent, the two you mentioned, hirsutus and heenanii, are not seen in Florida much because they are expensive and for the most part, people in Florida don't spend as much money for cycads as do people in California, but mostly because these are the least likely to do well in Florida.

E. heenanii doesn't really grow very fast anywhere, but put it in a wet, humid location, you get a better chance of rotting inbetween the flushes we might get every few years or so.

I was told by Johan Hurter, who described the species, that this plant is very habitat specific, and may be a difficult grow unless you have exactly what it wants. There again, they have a much better chance with this in southern California. I know I won't be attempting to grow either of these. I can't afford to spend a lot of money on a plant, just to watch it slowly die.I stopped buying expensive land fill a decade ago. My main goal is still trying to propagate cycads, and trying to get either of these to make seeds would be close to impossible without having a totally climate controlled greenhouse.

For the rest of the list, some may still be a bit slow, like with the inopinus, but they will do just fine, especially in a much warmer spot than I have to grow them in.

So Jody, what do you think on Zamias? How about something like:

Zamia melanorrhachis

disodon

hymenophyllidia

urep

ulei

monticola

wallisii

amplifolia

montana

pseudomonticola

I wasn't sure about this last one because of the somewhat recent finding of seeds and seedlings, so I guess I might throw in one of these next 3 as being number 10.

chigua, lacandona, or gentryi

So Jeff, you have quite a few of these species?

I guess I should of done my homework and forgot there's plenty of species that JUST arn't around. BUT...that's because some of these I suspect is because they will not grow here because of their range of very high altitudes. Similar to some of the Enceph. species. So on that note, I have some of the nicer ones that have been available over the years.

[virtualpalm]

Vincent, the two you mentioned, hirsutus and heenanii, are not seen in Florida much because they are expensive and for the most part, people in Florida don't spend as much money for cycads as do people in California, but mostly because these are the least likely to do well in Florida.

E. heenanii doesn't really grow very fast anywhere, but put it in a wet, humid location, you get a better chance of rotting inbetween the flushes we might get every few years or so.

I was told by Johan Hurter, who described the species, that this plant is very habitat specific, and may be a difficult grow unless you have exactly what it wants. There again, they have a much better chance with this in southern California. I know I won't be attempting to grow either of these. I can't afford to spend a lot of money on a plant, just to watch it slowly die.I stopped buying expensive land fill a decade ago. My main goal is still trying to propagate cycads, and trying to get either of these to make seeds would be close to impossible without having a totally climate controlled greenhouse.

For the rest of the list, some may still be a bit slow, like with the inopinus, but they will do just fine, especially in a much warmer spot than I have to grow them in.

So Jody, what do you think on Zamias? How about something like:

Zamia melanorrhachis

disodon

hymenophyllidia

urep

ulei

monticola

wallisii

amplifolia

montana

pseudomonticola

I wasn't sure about this last one because of the somewhat recent finding of seeds and seedlings, so I guess I might throw in one of these next 3 as being number 10.

chigua, lacandona, or gentryi

So Jeff, you have quite a few of these species?

Tom,

Somehow I missed your post. This is a good list. However, with a genus as large as Zamia, I don't think a "Top 10" of rare species is sufficient. I would add the following species:

Z. amazonum

Z. angustissima

Z. bussellii

Z. macrocheira

Z. meermanii

Z. montana

Z. oreillyi

Z. pyrophylla

At least one new species that is currently in publication or will be soon

I would also have to say that Z. pseudomonticola may not even belong on this list due to the controversy surrounding its possible synonymy with Z. fairchildiana. I also think that Z. manicata is equally common (or uncommon) in cultivation with Z. lacandona.

Jeff... c'mon, buddy... give it up! Whatcha got that's rare zamiawise? Inquiring minds want to know!

Jody

[tropicalb]

good luck growing these three in southern california...had the opportunity to buy them all at good prices once....i passed:

E. poggei

E. schaijesii

E. schmitzii

[BS Man about Palms]

Not very high among Encephalartos Bill

But within cycads it would of course make the list.

Michael

hey, I only said it because the Zamia crossed the line first....

[JEFF from Trabuco Canyon CA]

I would say E. ghellinckii would be on the list.

[rprimbs]

good luck growing these three in southern california...had the opportunity to buy them all at good prices once....i passed:

E. poggei

E. schaijesii

E. schmitzii

E. schmitzii doesn't do well here? I would think that it would like our climate. Especially a little inland.

[virtualpalm]

I would say E. ghellinckii would be on the list.

Maybe in this country, but it is not rare in South Africa.

Jody

Edited July 11, 2012 by virtualpalm

[JEFF from Trabuco Canyon CA]

Good to know Jody. Thanks!

[George Sparkman]

What does rare mean ? It might have a different meaning to different people.

Does it mean hard to get where you are ? If so is it because they just won't do well in a particular area and therefore are not pursued as are others ?

Or would it mean the species is almost extinct ?

Jody had a very good point with E.ghellinckii being not that rare in SA but pretty hard to get nice plants here in California (or the rest of the US for that matter).

Happy hunting,

George Sparkman

Cycads-n-Palms.com

[cycadjungle]

BS- I don't think microcycas is as rare in general as most of these top 10s we mention. There are hundeds of mature plants in habitat, but the insect pollinators have not done thier jobs for making more seeds in what might be the majority of the colonies. There are however, a few places where this is not a problem. On average, in Florida, there have been a couple to a few 1000 seeds being produced each year. Waht seems to be about 15 years ago, I remember, between the two gardens, about 5 cones being picked each year, and those cones drop like 500 to 700 seeds at a time, if I remember right. The only problem has been recent, where the seeds coming from the BGs in Miami already have embryos with fungus in them when the seeds are first dropping out of the cones, so even though there are many seeds, they are not resulting in very many plants. I know, at one time quite a few years ago, I had real close to 100 of these plants alone. A few 100 plants were given as member distribution plants from Fairchild at least twice in the past and those plants are scattered around in the Miami area.

Jody, on the zamia list, there are a few there that I haven't even heard of, so I couldn't have even known to mention those. There was a guy that was bringing a lot of Amazonium plants a bunch of years ago. He had told me that in the location he was at, even though they were just single plants here and there, if you were to count them all, there would have been 100s to even a low 1000s of plants, just where he was at. I thought they had worked all that out with finding the real PMs exactly where the original description said they would be, but I try not to get involved with all the taxonomy fights to know what the new story is. I gave up a long time ago when I was first learning all the palm names and they lumped about 5 genus into one with the dypsis, so I just make my labels according to what the higher people say they think they are. (you know, that was the start of me , for the most part, getting out of palms, and going from having 275 species down to about 20.)

I have known about 5 people who had multiple manacata plants, but have only seen 2 places that had a lacondona plant. Anyway, that is why I listed a few of these things the way I did.

[Gtlevine]

Hirsutus is King

[palmsnbananas]

Macrozamia Macdonnelli?? Not encephalartos of course

[George Sparkman]

Is this thread about rare Encephalartos or most desirable Encephalartos ? To me those are two different things.

Keeping that within Encephalartos is hard enough but expanding to all cycads becomes quite complicated.

Happy growing,

George Sparkman

Cycads-n-Palms.com