Syagrus romanzoffiana

[Collectorpalms]

I do not live too far from spring and the lows and temps were about the same. I had about 25 all sizes to 20-30ft and I have nine that are alive I think. Some had green left, but when i cut them at the base I could smell rotten stench. I had some in a non heated greenhouse that might have died, just from the prolonged cold, and not anything below 30! Try syagrus Litoralis ( which i have available) or the Butia x syagrus Hybrids. They are the more long term palm for our area. However, the queens are cheap, and most store fronts have already replaced their dead looking ones. ( no lessons learned). Not sure about home owners though, the box stores are NOT selling them out as fast as before and their prices on same sizes doubled from last season on a lot of them.

Ryan Fuller

ryan@collectorpalms.com

Edited April 15, 2010 by Collectorpalms

[JASON M]

Queens look blowtorched in Houston, with more minimal damage closer to the Gulf. Queens within a mile of the Gulf have no damage.

-Jonathan

I was there about 2 weeks ago, and they were very bad. Down near the gulf, very low damage. Over to the East and in Louisiana, they look like they were painted orange.

[Collectorpalms]

As far as Houston- Only remaing Zone 9 (stayed above 20) for the Houston area was inside the 610 loop extending about to: halfway to beltway 8 in the built up areas, and along the coast. The only areas I saw that stayed above 25, zone 9b was near Riveroaks, random spots up againts large buildings, and areas of Galveston and those were bordline 25 to 27. Those are the only places I assume that any really tropical palms like Royals, Foxtails etc.. might look okay and queens untouched. Landscapers have been quick to replace some of the plants in the last month, so it will be hard to tell soon where the death and destruction was at it worst since it was areas that had squeaked by with zone 9/10 plants for a long time( which was btween bw 8 and 1960 loop, and Katy and other burbs in my opinion that was near 17F).

Edited April 15, 2010 by Collectorpalms

[Collectorpalms]

oops...

Edited April 15, 2010 by Collectorpalms

[sfooz]

I do not live too far from spring and the lows and temps were about the same. I had about 25 all sizes to 20-30ft and I have nine that are alive I think. Some had green left, but when i cut them at the base I could smell rotten stench. I had some in a non heated greenhouse that might have died, just from the prolonged cold, and not anything below 30! Try syagrus Litoralis ( which i have available) or the Butia x syagrus Hybrids. They are the more long term palm for our area. However, the queens are cheap, and most store fronts have already replaced their dead looking ones. ( no lessons learned). Not sure about home owners though, the box stores are NOT selling them out as fast as before and their prices on same sizes doubled from last season on a lot of them.

Ryan Fuller

ryan@collectorpalms.com

Cool thanks, Im actually in the woodlands. just didnt think people would know it. but when u say cut them at the base what do you mean?? how do i do that??

[Collectorpalms]

Cool thanks, Im actually in the woodlands. just didnt think people would know it. but when u say cut them at the base what do you mean?? how do i do that??

[NBTX11]

All the queen palms around here appear dead. It will be interesting to see how many of them survive. I chopped mine down a few weeks ago. Would it have survived? Don't know, but I got tired of messing with it. I'm too impatient to wait and find out.

[NBTX11]

In march I took a trip from San Antonio to Pensacola FL. The ONLY place I saw queen palms that were not completely defoliated was in Houston. I saw a few in Houston that were only about 50% burned. I actually saw a very large one in Katy, when stopping at a gas station, that looked quite good relatively speaking. Only about 50% burned as I said.

[Collectorpalms]

In the town of Katy? Or along interstate 10 and katy freeway and its something like 12 to 18 lanes of traffic? I wonder if the circulation of traffic is enough to add a degree or two from the low on calm nights. In front of my House 1 lane, I can feel the wind from the Aggie buses.

[NBTX11]

In the town of Katy? Or along interstate 10 and katy freeway and its something like 12 to 18 lanes of traffic? I wonder if the circulation of traffic is enough to add a degree or two from the low on calm nights. In front of my House 1 lane, I can feel the wind from the Aggie buses.

Well, actually right off I-10 at one of the Katy exits, about 100 yards from the freeway at most.

[Ed in Houston]

I live in SE Houston ( Clear Lake area) between I-45 and Galveston Bay. The coldest night here was 22 degrees with mid 20's on either side. My queen had about 50% damage, about typical for the area but is growing nicely now. The commonly planted palm in the area that got the worst of it were the pygmy dates. It is still too early to tell for sure but I would estimate that only about 30% survived locally that were unprotected . From street observations, it looks like the chance of survival went up sharply with pygmy's that had a 6 foot or taller trunk. My newly planted 6 foot king and foxtail made it with protection (heat lamp and sheet covering). I thought for sure that my newly planted majesty had died, but it has some new growth after pushing out a very badly damaged and rotten spear. One nice surprise was no damage at all to a 25 foot grapefruit tree that was well hardened off from early season cold that hit Houston.

[Collectorpalms]

Clear Lake would be a nice microclimate to live for Palms. It is sandwiched between Houston and Galveston Bay and is moderated, by Houston and the Bay. There is about 5 to 7 degree difference east of 45 south of Houston compared to west of 45. Webster which is on I45 had 17 or 18 degrees according to a nursery owner. That is only 3 to 5 miles from Clear Lake itself.

[Xenon]

In march I took a trip from San Antonio to Pensacola FL. The ONLY place I saw queen palms that were not completely defoliated was in Houston. I saw a few in Houston that were only about 50% burned. I actually saw a very large one in Katy, when stopping at a gas station, that looked quite good relatively speaking. Only about 50% burned as I said.

Hmmm...in my suburb in Katy all the queens look 100% defoiliated..L.chinesis 70% burn. Mostly pure robustas have 70% burn while intermediate forms have about 50% burn. CIDPs took about 60% burn.

-Jonathan

[Xenon]

Oh, R.rivulris and P.roebilleni are DEAD.

-Jonathan

[Collectorpalms]

I'm too impatient too, I have many more plants that I want to plant now. However, I didnt get around to removing a 5 to 7 ft Mule and a Syagrus Litoralis that had spear pull, and spotty fronds ( not defoliated), and just the last two days a new spear appeared on both, so I guess tthey are staying. However, I still have 3 queens that I have not gotten around to that have about 10 ft of trunk, there is no signs of life. The alive ones have two or three stunted leaves already

[NBTX11]

In march I took a trip from San Antonio to Pensacola FL. The ONLY place I saw queen palms that were not completely defoliated was in Houston. I saw a few in Houston that were only about 50% burned. I actually saw a very large one in Katy, when stopping at a gas station, that looked quite good relatively speaking. Only about 50% burned as I said.

Hmmm...in my suburb in Katy all the queens look 100% defoiliated..L.chinesis 70% burn. Mostly pure robustas have 70% burn while intermediate forms have about 50% burn. CIDPs took about 60% burn.

-Jonathan

Well, I should say most defoliated, but I did see some survivors with a moderate amount of green left.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

All the queens I have seen in the Bryan/College Station area of Texas are totally dead, with the exception of the ones that collectorpalms has. The ones he has close to his house survived, but I think he lost some further from the house. Some of his are silver queens, so that explains them making it when regular queens are toast after this past winter. I planted a small $10 queen in my sister in law's front yard in Bryan last summer, that I am afraid is dead, even though I tried to protect it on the coldest nights last winter. I will give it to June or July just in case before I dig it up. When I was in Galveston a couple of weeks ago, everything looked pretty good. Most of the damage there was still from Hurrican Ike, rather than freeze damage. There are a couple of royals along the south side of two buildings at Moody Gardens that were alive, but not as healthy as they usually look in Brownsville or South Florida.

[NBTX11]

I've started to notice some now pushing green spears recently around town. Which means they survived at least 16 unprotected.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

I've started to notice some now pushing green spears recently around town. Which means they survived at least 16 unprotected.

They must be silver queens, which are supposedly hardy to the upper teens, as opposed to the regular queens, which are only hardy to about 24. Unfortunately, I don't think the average nursery that sells palms knows the difference between the two. For that matter, I have studied palms since I was a boy, and I couldn't tell you the difference just by looking at them. The only way I can tell is if the queens survive a bad winter unprotected, then chances are they are silver queens.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

I've started to notice some now pushing green spears recently around town. Which means they survived at least 16 unprotected.

Also any of them that are near the Comal River would probably not have experienced anything below 20F where they are growing, since the Comal is spring fed and stays 72-74F year round. I would suspicion a yard on the south side of the Comal would probably be Zone 9B, especially near the bank of the river.

[Xenon]

Oh, R.rivulris and P.roebilleni are DEAD.

-Jonathan

I saw a roebilleni today with 5 ft. of trunk, pushing out a spear!

Jonathan

[gsn]

All the queens I have seen in the Bryan/College Station area of Texas are totally dead, with the exception of the ones that collectorpalms has. The ones he has close to his house survived, but I think he lost some further from the house. Some of his are silver queens, so that explains them making it when regular queens are toast after this past winter.

They must be silver queens, which are supposedly hardy to the upper teens, as opposed to the regular queens, which are only hardy to about 24. Unfortunately, I don't think the average nursery that sells palms knows the difference between the two. For that matter, I have studied palms since I was a boy, and I couldn't tell you the difference just by looking at them. The only way I can tell is if the queens survive a bad winter unprotected, then chances are they are silver queens.

What are these mythical Syagrus litoralis(silver queen)palms you speak of?

Litoralis means close to the SHORE,so I would think that a palm of that name would be less cold hardy?

Me thinks that silver queen was an inventive nursey name to sell palms, because I defy someone to identify a silver queen by the appearance of the palm. There is considerable variation in characteristics and looks of queen palms.

Having said that I am fairly certain that some queen palms from certain providences might be more cold hardy than others!

Hopefully some will recover, it was a bad winter to say the least!

Edited April 19, 2010 by gsn

[NBTX11]

I've started to notice some now pushing green spears recently around town. Which means they survived at least 16 unprotected.

They must be silver queens, which are supposedly hardy to the upper teens, as opposed to the regular queens, which are only hardy to about 24. Unfortunately, I don't think the average nursery that sells palms knows the difference between the two. For that matter, I have studied palms since I was a boy, and I couldn't tell you the difference just by looking at them. The only way I can tell is if the queens survive a bad winter unprotected, then chances are they are silver queens.

Regular queens are hardier than 24F. A few yrs ago, we got down in the lower 20s (somewhere between 21 and 23, depending on where), and EVERY single queen of any size survived, many unburned.

As I stated, I have started to notice several large ones pushing new spears, and can see green poking out. Many are dead, but there will be some survivors. As far as the rivers, you may be correct, there are obviously areas around that are warmer than the airport low. The New Braunfels airport low was actually a ridiculously cold 14 (as opposed to SA's 16), but you have to understand, the NB airport is way out in nowhere, in the middle of a field, 5-10 miles NW of town. Far away from the I-35 heat island. Areas close to I-35 stayed in the 15-18F range, imo.

[NBTX11]

I guess those of us in marginal areas need to get our hands on this Syagrus Litoralis, Silver Queen.

[Collectorpalms]

I think this is a great place discuss palms. Ever notice that everyone thinks they are always right regardless?? I do not believe anyone except what I can see for my own eyes. So say what you want, believe what you want, be sarcastic all you want, blah blah blah. Happy gardening! Oh by the way, here are some "Syagrus Var Mythical" Palm pictures from yesterday.

Edited April 20, 2010 by Collectorpalms

[Collectorpalms]

I wonder what these are? I just call em "Syagrus Var Box Store" from yesterday too.

[Collectorpalms]

Recovering, but earlier Defoliated Washingtonia to the lower left for temperature reference.

Edited April 20, 2010 by Collectorpalms

[gsn]

I think this is a great place discuss palms. Ever notice that everyone thinks they are always right regardless?? I do not believe anyone except what I can see for my own eyes. So say what you want, believe what you want, be sarcastic all you want, blah blah blah. Happy gardening! Oh by the way, here are some "Syagrus Var Mythical" Palm pictures from yesterday.

I also think it is a great place to disscuss palms. Right or wrong this is my opinion based on previous discussions here on this board and with other people!

What keys/charcteristics are you using to determine that the palms pictured above are in fact a "Sygrus litoralis"(silver queen)?

And possibily not queen palms from seed of the Santa Catarina region,or some other provenance where queen palms grow?

I wasn't aware that at the seedling stage of the palms pictured (fairly mature) that Silver Queen("Sygrus litoralis") was a described species,which to my knowledge it still is not, or even a real named variation, or even that the name silver queen was on the palm radar at that time the palms pictured were seedlings?

As stated this subject has been disscused in depth with many opinions on the forum previously,and the jury IMHO is still far from a decision/consenus that in fact the so called Silver Queen is the most cold hardy queen form, even if at some future point it is determined to be a distinct species/named variation?

I'm glad you had some queens that survived your low temps!

Edited April 20, 2010 by gsn

[NorthHoustonPalm]

Cool thanks, Im actually in the woodlands. just didnt think people would know it. but when u say cut them at the base what do you mean?? how do i do that??

I chainsawed some of them at their base to get rid of them, and found that yes indead they were dead, they stunk. However, if you still have hope then wait.

[gsn]

Wilyum,

Any update on your queens?

Hopefully you had some survivors?

[Wilyum]

I have been in Chicago over the last few weeks for work. I hope out when I get home this weekend. I will try to snap some photos and post for you guys to comment on..on how to continue.

[AggiePalms]

Hi there! Glad you found this site, some people on here have amazing knowledge. I lived in the College Station to Galveston area for years, and while your Syagrus looks lousy, I think it will do fine...in a few months. You say it has a green trunk and some green on leaves...leave it for a while and see. Here in coastal GA a few years ago I had a queen a bit bigger than yours that went through successive nights down to 14. It totally defoliated. Not a prettty sight. A few months later (July or so) it finally put out a new spear, stunted but alive. It was the only Queen to survive in this area, due to some pink wrapped insulation. The next summer, a year and a half after the freeze, it finally was back to doing fine, and now it has at least 15 ft of clear trunk. If yours looks somewhat alive, then keep poodling the dead fronds but don't give up. I just don't cut down palms unless they are really, truly dead, and I do not think yours is. Good luck!

[NBTX11]

I took a ride around town to look at the queen palms, and I would say at least 50, possibly 60% of the local queens now seem to be pushing green spears. Several large ones are obviously recovering. Low was about 16F

[sfooz]

Well no luck with a green spear yet... in fact i tugged on the spear again and it started to pull. i took it out and the bottom of the spear was rotted. with a rotting smell in the middle. i poured hydrogen peroxide down it a couple times. and the rotting smell is gone. but there is no sign of new life just a black hole. but i dont get it... how is it possible that some of the leaves are still alive if the tree is dead??!?!?!?!? grrr this is annoying. my mom wont let me plant a new one cause she hates palm trees(she grew up in south florida and thinks they are messy) so i really want this one to leave. maybe i can plant it at night and be like would u look at that!! it recovered!

[NBTX11]

Well no luck with a green spear yet... in fact i tugged on the spear again and it started to pull. i took it out and the bottom of the spear was rotted. with a rotting smell in the middle. i poured hydrogen peroxide down it a couple times. and the rotting smell is gone. but there is no sign of new life just a black hole. but i dont get it... how is it possible that some of the leaves are still alive if the tree is dead??!?!?!?!? grrr this is annoying. my mom wont let me plant a new one cause she hates palm trees(she grew up in south florida and thinks they are messy) so i really want this one to leave. maybe i can plant it at night and be like would u look at that!! it recovered!

The tree is not dead from what you described. Queens are notorious for pulling spears in cold weather when young and then recovering. I've seen it personally several times. A young queen will lose the spear, then push out a deformed spear (usually by now), and then all subsequent spears/fronds will be healthy. Usually this happens from temps in the low 20s. Anything below 25F can cause a spear pull, but not necessarily death. As a last resort, you can perform surgery, by cutting into the top of the trunk until you get to good growth.

[Darkman]

Originally I thought some of my smaller queens may have survived as they showed no burning BUT today I saw that the three foot green spear was turning brown. I grabbed it and it came out with a rotton base. This probably means that my queens, all four of them are probbaly dead. These came from two different sources and at least one of them was supposed to be a coastal queen. All of them have had the benefits of a dedicated irrigation system with bubblers, three doses of Palm fertilizer last spring and summer, an initial treatment of Super Thrive and a dose of epsom salts. All seemed to be in great shape until the winter of '10. I have replaced two of them but I am waiting to do my large one to see if it can pull off a miracle. It has about 16' of clear trunk so maybe it can. I was looking at the pics from Houston area and observed that his leaf scars are much closer together than mine. I have not defoiliated my large Queen so I may try to post a pic so it can be compared.

In an earlier post I spoke of the uncertainty of my Phoenix Reclinata. Well I think I can say that it has made it. It has many of the pups growing ugly but growing and the main trunk has about 18" of growth. Also my slender lady palm has shown no ill effects and is doing well. My Sylvestris is fine. Sadly it appears that my triple trunk Roebelini has lost the two smaller trunks. This was a large speciman plant and it will never be the same without the other two. The two trunks that died were 4' and 5'. The survivor was a little over 6'. The base caliper on the smallest was at least 5". These were tented and had a 100w light bulb in the tent for heat. Obviously this wasn't enough.

Where does one buy a BXS cross in the NW Florida area that would have at least 8" of clear trunk? Would I have to get a second mortgage for one?

Last thoughts. The big orange box store had some Queens that were easily twenty foot tall with about 8' of clear trunk that they were selling for $95. They had twelve foot ones that were $59. At that price I can replace them every year just wouldn't want to. The big ones easily were over 400 pounds. I noticed that the leaves were a darker green and were fuller than my originals. Any thoughts on this.

Oh overall low at my house was 19.3 on two different days.

Charles in Pensacola FL

[_Keith]

Although spear pull is a bad sign, it is not a certain death sentence. This isn't the optimum palm planting time down here quite yet, so I say give them another month.

[sfooz]

The tree is not dead from what you described. Queens are notorious for pulling spears in cold weather when young and then recovering. I've seen it personally several times. A young queen will lose the spear, then push out a deformed spear (usually by now), and then all subsequent spears/fronds will be healthy. Usually this happens from temps in the low 20s. Anything below 25F can cause a spear pull, but not necessarily death. As a last resort, you can perform surgery, by cutting into the top of the trunk until you get to good growth.

[GREENHAND]

No Queens survived here in the Dallas area, all the ones i know of , mine and my freinds (TOAST)! they cant hack it.

[peachy]

If the smell has gone that means the peroxide did its stuff. If you still have bits of green on the trunk or leaf bases, just give it a feed, some water and leave it the heck alone. At my old place, I had nightly winter frosts about -6c and sometimes down to -9. The queens and butias never blinked an eye at those temps. It' all about patience.....yes I know, it a commodity I am quite in short supply of too, but dont monkey with the poor thing and cause it more stress. I lost a Calamus last year but due to the spines, never got around to pulling it out. Only yesterday while I was watering other things I saw a little green spear, about 8cms long coming out of my long dead Calamus. A bit of seaweed mixture would help it along also.

Peachy