Urechites lutea ? for RLR

[SunnyFl]

I have a question about the native FL vine Urechites lutea (a/k/a Pentalinon luteum per FL Vascular Plants site).

There's a labeled one growing by a boardwalk at Selby.

To me, it looks identical to the vine that the big box stores are selling as "yellow mandevilla."  Is this "yellow mandevlla" vine the same as the Urechites/Pentalinon?

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

I have heard that it is the same, and I have heard it is different.  I dunno fer sure.

I do know that the Florida native was the original host for the oleander wasp moth, not oleander.

Jerry

[SunnyFl]

Thanks for the warning, Jerry.  Isn't the oleandar wasp moth the adult form of the orange-dog caterpillar?  Can't stand those nasty things.

The "indigenous-only" crowd loves to say that if we plant natives ONLY, we won't need pesticides as the exotics are the plants that get pests.  I don't buy it - I've never seen a pest on my R. glauca or spindle - but royal palm bugs & palmetto weevils are known to attack native palms.

Haven't had any pests on the shefflera or allamanda either.  Yet down in the Fakahatchee Strand, there were reports of bromeliad weevils threatening the (native) bromeliads there.  

So I don't put much stock in their argument.

Anyway - I was googling around yesterday and came upon a nursery that actually gave a botanical name for their yellow mandevilla, and they called it pentalinon.

[Robert Lee Riffle]

Sunny--

Sorry for the delay in response time; been swamped.

It's the "common name curse!"  I mean like "Mandevilla is a botanical name.  So "yellow mandevilla" is a double whammy.  "Urechites" has four syllables while "yellow mandevilla" has six.  Why do they DO this?!?

Urechites and Pentalinon are, indeed, synonyms.  If you have my 1st book, there's a pretty good photo of what was then known as Urechites in closeup, taken in inner city Houston--it didn't make it through the winter.  I have also seen it abloom in The Everglades.  Note the diff between the form of a true Allemanda and the yellow FL native.  I think the latter is prettier.It is also very fast growing.

[SunnyFl]

(Robert Lee Riffle @ Jul. 13 2006,01:42)

QUOTE

It's the "common name curse!"  I mean like "Mandevilla is a botanical name.  So "yellow mandevilla" is a double whammy.  "Urechites" has four syllables while "yellow mandevilla" has six.  Why do they DO this?!?

It drives me crazy.  You ask at practically any nursery - except the ones owned by tropical plant enthusiasts - and they have no clue what the botanical name is.  Or they get it totally messed up.   Aaaargh, makes me tear my hair out.

Urechites and Pentalinon are, indeed, synonyms.  If you have my 1st book, there's a pretty good photo of what was then known as Urechites in closeup, taken in inner city Houston--it didn't make it through the winter.

I'm sorry it didn't survive - it's so beautiful.  Yes, I have your 1st book, and the 2nd, the ECP; I love both.  It was the photo in the Tropical Look that first made me wonder if this Urechites was the same as the pathetically-named "yellow mandevilla."

 I have also seen it abloom in The Everglades.  Note the diff between the form of a true Allemanda and the yellow FL native.  I think the latter is prettier.

 I definitely think so.  Some of our native plants are amazing.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

When I was planting the "Yellow Mandevilla" in an all native design, some skeptic tisk tisked me, saying "Pentalinon has 2 common species.  The one that is generally available is not the native one."

RLR, you are saying that it is the same native?  That is good because the choice of natives for Florida is usually pretty drab and few bloomers.

It is fast growing.  In ideal situations it will sceamble up a support 20 feet high in one summer.  It is also completely drought tolerant here in halfway decent soil.  THe nonsense arguement that natives don't get pests is ridiculous, this vine can be completely denuded by a bad infestation of the oleander wasp moth. The cat is orange with black bristles that are ]not stinging.  Depending on infestation levels, sometimes I spray all of them , usually I don't as I think the moths are pretty. (The orange dog cat is pest (?) of citrus and citrus relatives.  It morphs into the wonderful swallowtail butterfly.  They rarely overpopulate to cause significant damage so I never kill them.)

Jerry

[SunnyFl]

(Jerry@TreeZoo @ Jul. 15 2006,07:45)

QUOTE

RLR, you are saying that it is the same native?  That is good because the choice of natives for Florida is usually pretty drab and few bloomers.

I hope he tells us.

Meanwhile on the ISB - FL Vascular Plants site, there are photos of the familiar pentalinon and they state it is native.  So I think you're right - and the naysayers were mistaken.

[SunnyFl]

(Jerry@TreeZoo @ Jul. 15 2006,07:45)

QUOTE

THe nonsense arguement that natives don't get pests is ridiculous, this vine can be completely denuded by a bad infestation of the oleander wasp moth. The cat is orange with black bristles that are ]not stinging.  Depending on infestation levels, sometimes I spray all of them , usually I don't as I think the moths are pretty. (The orange dog cat is pest (?) of citrus and citrus relatives.  It morphs into the wonderful swallowtail butterfly.  They rarely overpopulate to cause significant damage so I never kill them.)

Jerry

It is a totally stupid argument, that natives "don't get pests."  Sure they do.  The natives evolved to survive in their region - and the pests evolved to munch on 'em!

Here's another complete fallacy - found on a Lee Co. native-plant site:  that natives require less water.  No, that depends entirely on the plant.  So far, my native hibs require more water than the tropical hibs.

It's true that we don't want real  invasives, such as brazilian pepper, casuarina - or in the deep south, the kudzu.  But kudzu (and I think casuarina) was brought in deliberately  and with no  advance knowledge, in order to control erosion.  (Lord only knows why air potato is here!)  But I haven't heard of any problem with the majority of our "exotics" that bring amazing beauty to our area, and it's quite upsetting to think there are those who would ban their presence here.

[Robert Lee Riffle]

Jerry--

(Again, apologies for the delay in response time.)

There are two spp of Pentalinon.  One is endemic to southern FL; the other is native to Central America.

I know NOT what "two common species might mean, NOR "generally available."  I've never seen (that I KNEW of) the Cnetral American species for sale.

Sunny, some people have too much time on their hands and are, in addition it would seem, at least a tad frustrated in other parts of their lives; therefore they take up causes, often becoming fanatics of zeal and propaganda.  (Bertrand Russel pronounced the word as  [FAN-a-tik].)

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

RLR,

I was told that the yellow mandevilla that is available at nurseries in SoFla are the Central American variety and that the native one is never grown.  I'm gonna believe you, not them.

Tanks,

Jerry

[richtrav]

That yellow Urechites is extremely easy to grow in South Texas, you would think some people are trying to kill it given the spots they put them in, but they survive and usually thrive given the slightest care. It seems to bloom all the time and is a cheap and easy but classy tropical looking bloomer, available at Home Depot and other places where fine products are sold

The only thing I question is how root-hardy it might be; there are many that must be 10-15 years old here and haven't been hurt, but it hasn't gone below 27F in most places since '89. You don't really see it north of deep South Texas which suggests it might have trouble recovering from a hard freeze, even from the root. Does anyone have any experience growing it in Central Florida  back to the '80s?

[Guest]

Posted by Eric in Orlando

I came across this, P. andrieuxii from Central America. Here is a link with photo;

http://www.nybg.org/bsci/belize/Pentalinon...rieuxii_fl.html

[Guest]

Posted by Eric in Orlando

Around Orlando, it didn't start showing up in nurseries until the early 90s so I don't know what it would do after a 20F freeze. I have had it take heavy frost and 26F back in an open area at my old house in 2/1996. It froze to the ground and grew back and was flowering before Allamanda 'Cherries Jubilee' and 'Hendersonii'. It would get defoliated every few months by the Oleander Moth larvae but always grew back with no problems.

[SunnyFl]

Personally, if Mr. RLR says P. luteum is the FL native, then it's the FL native.  Jerry, you were right and the ones who told you otherwise were just plain wrong.  

Furthermore, the ISB site clearly shows the luteum, which looks identical to HD's "yellow mandevilla," and states that it is native.

I came across this, P. andrieuxii from Central America.

And now we have the latest: a pic of the non-native pentalinon, which does not remotely resemble the luteum.  So it's conclusively proven that our beauty is a native  Ta-da!!

To RLR:  Loved the observation about "Fan-a-tics" - I do hope I don't sound like another one (except with the opposite viewpoint hehe).  My main quarrel with the people on this "native-only" trip is the possibility they'll influence our local ordinances.

[Dave-Vero]

Here's a useful page on the distribution and pest potential of Pentalinon luteum (yellow mandevilla)

http://www.hear.org/Pier/species/pentalinon_luteum.htm

I guess the common cultivated yellow allamanda is Allamanda cathartica

http://www.hear.org/Pier/species/pentalinon_luteum.htm