My Encephalartos horridus x 2

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Got these 2 Encephalartos horridus from Queensland last week after drooling over all the Cycads over in So Cal .

I will grow these 2 little fellas in my greenhouse (in a bright area ) until they have developed a caudex -3 yrs ???

Yes Braden i have the fever !

[dalmatiansoap]

[Roaringwater]

Good luck Troy, but I think E. horridus needs hot summers to grow well. E. lehmanii is much easier.

[freakypalmguy]

Nice Troy, you are really in trouble now.

[yachtingone]

Watch out Troy it's addicting!

You just got one of the best plants on the planet! (my opinion!)

I would put them in the ground in the hottest sunniest place you have today!

Randy

[DippyD]

Troy,

listen to what randy said! cycads thrive in the ground and those plants are well on there way already. ive put 1 leaf seedlings in the ground and kept some in pots, the ones in the ground grow quicker look healthier and before you know it youll have a nice little plant like this. this plant is 4 yrs old.

Brett

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Sounds like in the ground is the way to go . Thanks guys !

[Al in Kona]

Troy, be sure you don't plant it close to walkways or where you'll be passing by as those beautiful spines are wicked! A very nice cycad if placed correctly!

Here's a pic of mine placed at driceway entrance. It is now about 1m (3 ft.) tall. Caution: Weeding under it can be hazardous!

[leomx]

woaw, wonder what just won´t grow in Al´s piece of paradise!!! an encephalartos next to a pristine looking hoh. correia-araujoi!!

cheerios.

[Jonathan]

Good luck Troy, but I think E. horridus needs hot summers to grow well. E. lehmanii is much easier.

I think E. horridus will grow fine here.

Tasmania is an island off the coast of Australia, not off the coast of England! Our climate is more like southern Victoria than southern Ireland's. It gets to 40C here every now and then, and over 30 pretty regularly.

Averages are deceptive - the air temperature here bounces around like a super-ball as the fronts come through. 35 one day, 18 the next. Never stable. What is stable though is the intensity of the sun. We are in a similar latitude to parts of Spain, Italy, California, etc. so the sun has more punch than in northern Europe. If you find a place out of the wind and in the sun, it feels hot, even at 18C.

The local olive orchards seem to get enough heat....and my limes ripened nicely this year, fingers crossed for the avocado's!

Cheers,

Jonathan

[gyuseppe]

Good luck Troy, but I think E. horridus needs hot summers to grow well. E. lehmanii is much easier.

I think E. horridus will grow fine here.

Tasmania is an island off the coast of Australia, not off the coast of England! Our climate is more like southern Victoria than southern Ireland's. It gets to 40C here every now and then, and over 30 pretty regularly.

Averages are deceptive - the air temperature here bounces around like a super-ball as the fronts come through. 35 one day, 18 the next. Never stable. What is stable though is the intensity of the sun. We are in a similar latitude to parts of Spain, Italy, California, etc. so the sun has more punch than in northern Europe. If you find a place out of the wind and in the sun, it feels hot, even at 18C.

The local olive orchards seem to get enough heat....and my limes ripened nicely this year, fingers crossed for the avocado's!

Cheers,

Jonathan

Hello Jonathan!

are you saying that the climate of Tasmania such as southern Europe ?

quite hot in summer

if so

ok Horridus !

http://www.ortobotanico.unina.it/aree_espositive/pinophyta/Encephalartos_horridus.jpg

also :

http://www.ortobotanico.unina.it/aree_espositive/pinophyta/Ceratozamia_mexicana001.jpg

http://www.ortobotanico.unina.it/aree_espositive/pinophyta/Encephalartos_altensteinii.jpg

http://www.ortobotanico.unina.it/aree_espositive/pinophyta/Dioon_edule_female.jpg

[Roaringwater]

Jonathan, olives ripen in south-east England, and avocados have ripened in London, so I don't think that tells us very much. London also gets occasional 35c days in summer- personally, I don't think this counts for much. The ability of most plants to photosynthesize actually declines at temperatures above 25c. It is night-time temperatures that are crucial. I would agree that the climate of Hobart could be compared to La Coruna in Spain, or parts of the Bay Area. I think you would be hard-pressed to find E. horridus growing well in either of these places. Summer nights in Hobart are actually cooler than London!

Climate of Hobart

Climate of London

I would love to be proved wrong, and wish Troy success with his experiment. Planting in a sun-trap position, with a mulch of dark stone (to release heat at night) will give them the best chance.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Roaringwater

[Tassie_Troy1971]

UPDATE - The 2 E .horridus are in the greenhouse in very tall pots for the next 2 years , i already lost a Dypsis decipiens to our 8c recent overnight temperatures that had not acclimatised from Queensland .

Quite frankly the summer so far feels like antarctica let alone the U.K !

[aussiearoids]

I just checked how far south the habitat of these are in SA .. approx Lat/Lon: 33.7° S 25.4° E ..

equivalent in Aus would be Newcastle north of Sydney , thats a hell of a long way from Tas !!

I remember when I was a Victorian and I thought it was so much warmer in Sydney !! The beauty of cycads is that you can keep them in a pot for ever , might not get the growth of one in the ground

[Jonathan]

Jonathan, olives ripen in south-east England, and avocados have ripened in London, so I don't think that tells us very much. London also gets occasional 35c days in summer- personally, I don't think this counts for much. The ability of most plants to photosynthesize actually declines at temperatures above 25c. It is night-time temperatures that are crucial. I would agree that the climate of Hobart could be compared to La Coruna in Spain, or parts of the Bay Area. I think you would be hard-pressed to find E. horridus growing well in either of these places. Summer nights in Hobart are actually cooler than London!

Climate of Hobart

Climate of London

I would love to be proved wrong, and wish Troy success with his experiment. Planting in a sun-trap position, with a mulch of dark stone (to release heat at night) will give them the best chance.

Michael, like I mentioned above, averages can be deceptive...ultimately only time will tell if they will survive.

But to put it in perspective, here is a quick list of some palm species that grow well in Hobart with no protection beyond shading when young to prevent sunburn: Howea forsteriana, Lepiorrhachis, Hedyscepe, Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, A. alexandrae, Chamaedorea tepejilote Parajubaea spp, etc.

Plus all the obvious cold hardies - Jubaea, CIDP (common street tree - even far inlnd in Tas), Washies, Liv australis and decora, Butia, Sabal, etc. Plenty of these species come from climates as hot or hotter than Southern Africa, they dont seem to slow photosynthesis enough to stop them growing. My CIDP's push more spears in winter when its wet, than in summer when its dry.

Unless I've got it all wrong (which is entirely possible), not many of the species in the first list are long (or even short) term prospects in the UK due to eratic blasts of cold continental weather from northern Europe, as has occured this year. And that is the major difference between our climates - when we get a blast of continental air, its off stinking hot mainland Australia in summer. Our cold southerlies are tempered by thousands of kms of ocean. Neither your cold snaps, or our hot ones last long enough to alter our long term averages much, but cold air will kill palms...

My belief is that the limiting factor for palm and cycad growth in Tasmania is cold hardiness, not heat requirements, and it seems to be playing out that way. Plants that cant take 0C a few times a year dont like it here. My place is a bit of a frost trap, so I've drawn the line at Ravenea rivularis - it cant handle the frost!

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Jonathan]

I just checked how far south the habitat of these are in SA .. approx Lat/Lon: 33.7° S 25.4° E ..

equivalent in Aus would be Newcastle north of Sydney , thats a hell of a long way from Tas !!

I remember when I was a Victorian and I thought it was so much warmer in Sydney !! The beauty of cycads is that you can keep them in a pot for ever , might not get the growth of one in the ground

Livistona decora's natural range is roughly from Townsville to Rockhampton (20 - 25 deg south), much further from Tas than Newcastle! It grows perfectly well down here....

If you're growing palms in Tasmania, its a given that they will come from lower latitudes (other than R. sapida). The question is really will it grow here, not where does it come from.

I suspect that E. horridis will - but we wont know until Troy tries it. Ten years ago I would never have thought of trying A. alexandrae here, even though Bangalows grow well - but it turns out they do just fine for Troy.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Jonathan]

Good luck Troy, but I think E. horridus needs hot summers to grow well. E. lehmanii is much easier.

I think E. horridus will grow fine here.

Tasmania is an island off the coast of Australia, not off the coast of England! Our climate is more like southern Victoria than southern Ireland's. It gets to 40C here every now and then, and over 30 pretty regularly.

Averages are deceptive - the air temperature here bounces around like a super-ball as the fronts come through. 35 one day, 18 the next. Never stable. What is stable though is the intensity of the sun. We are in a similar latitude to parts of Spain, Italy, California, etc. so the sun has more punch than in northern Europe. If you find a place out of the wind and in the sun, it feels hot, even at 18C.

The local olive orchards seem to get enough heat....and my limes ripened nicely this year, fingers crossed for the avocado's!

Cheers,

Jonathan

Hello Jonathan!

are you saying that the climate of Tasmania such as southern Europe ?

quite hot in summer

if so

ok Horridus !

http://www.ortobotanico.unina.it/aree_espositive/pinophyta/Encephalartos_horridus.jpg

also :

http://www.ortobotanico.unina.it/aree_espositive/pinophyta/Ceratozamia_mexicana001.jpg

http://www.ortobotanico.unina.it/aree_espositive/pinophyta/Encephalartos_altensteinii.jpg

http://www.ortobotanico.unina.it/aree_espositive/pinophyta/Dioon_edule_female.jpg

Hi Gyuseppe!

No, our summers are not as hot as yours, but our low temperatures are similar.

Cycads wont grow as fast here as they do for you. Slow but steady here!

The Livistona saribus and L. mariae you sent me are growing well, thanks.

How are your Macrozamia moorei gowing? I planted out my first ones a couple of weeks ago.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Roaringwater]

Jonathan, none of the palms you list have much of a heat requirement, other than some Sabals. Somehow, I can't imagine that Sabal minor is a fast grower in Tasmania. How do Queens (Syagrus) do? Bismarkia?

Southern Africa has a vast range of climates, and I'm sure there are many cycads from there that could do well in Tasmania. It's just that E. horridus is one of the less likely candidates.

I like your optimism, but it's a simple fact that some plants do have a real heat requirement, and will not thrive in a climate with cool summer nights.

[Jonathan]

Hi Michael,

you're right that palms with low heat requirements grow best for us, but others still grow, albeit slower.

Queens grow easily here and are bomb proof to cold, but slow without water - I dont water mine, because water is scarce here at South Arm (very dry climate zone) and I've got more interesting palms to keep alive. There are some decent sized specimens around Hobart though.

I only know of two Bismarkia that have been tried here, and both were bought down from Queensland and planted out during the wettest winter in 50 years (2009) and perished. I'm not totally convinced that they will survive here, but as there is considerable variation in hardiness between individuals, I might plant out 10 and see if any scrape through. I'm pretty sure that if I planted one in close to the house it would be fine - but they get too big to do that. E. horrius on the other hand is a good candidate for a nice warm spot.

I know that you're convinced that the UK climate is similar to ours based on averages, but you've only got to look at the native flora to realise that its very different. Eastern Tasmania is covered with dry sclerophyll Eucalypt forest, adapted to drought and fire regeneration, the west is covered in wet temperate rainforest, with remnant subtropical elements like Cyathea & Dicksonia treeferns. The coastal areas have Allocasuarina, Banksia and Xanthorea - genera usually associated with hot dry mainland conditions. There is only one native deciduous tree, and it lives at about 1000m altitude in the mountains. Does that sound similar to the native flora of the UK?

Sounds more like the Mediterranean to me. And ultimately I would describe our climate (eastern half at least) as cool Mediterranean...which sounds stupid, but makes sense. Its a wierd climate, where you can ripen apples next to lemons, gooseberries next to figs, even oranges next to a wall. There is a commercial Avocado orchard at Swansea on the east coast. A kind of cool California. The only way you'll ever know for sure is to come and have a look.

I rest my optimistic case!

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Roaringwater]

Hi Michael,

you're right that palms with low heat requirements grow best for us, but others still grow, albeit slower.

Queens grow easily here and are bomb proof to cold, but slow without water - I dont water mine, because water is scarce here at South Arm (very dry climate zone) and I've got more interesting palms to keep alive. There are some decent sized specimens around Hobart though.

I only know of two Bismarkia that have been tried here, and both were bought down from Queensland and planted out during the wettest winter in 50 years (2009) and perished. I'm not totally convinced that they will survive here, but as there is considerable variation in hardiness between individuals, I might plant out 10 and see if any scrape through. I'm pretty sure that if I planted one in close to the house it would be fine - but they get too big to do that. E. horrius on the other hand is a good candidate for a nice warm spot.

I know that you're convinced that the UK climate is similar to ours based on averages...

Cheers,

Jonathan

Hi Jonathan, where did I say that? Here's what I actually said:

I would agree that the climate of Hobart could be compared to La Coruna in Spain, or parts of the Bay Area.

Both of these places have climates that could be described as "cool mediterranean"!

I would love to visit Tasmania one day, to see all your wonderful native flora in habitat. I suppose what's left is well protected now?

[Jonathan]

Sorry Michael - I was just putting words in your mouth!

I'd like to say that our native flora is well protected...but it could be too early, although things are looking better than they used to. We just had an agreement between the timber industry and conservationists to end logging of old growth native forests. All we need now is the government to have the spine to carry it through.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[richnorm]

I have seen many horridus in-ground in Auckland so go for gold Troy. Probably best get some caudex first and ensure superb drainage though.

cheers

Richard