I would like help trying to ID 4 cycads that I have. Ive search the net trying to ID them but a lot of the disciptions are a bit technical for a simple gardener like myself. Its something I want to learn but I guess it takes time.

The first one is what I believe to be Ceratozamia Robusta?

This one I believe to be Zamia Furfuracea.

At first I thought this one was Zamia Furfuracea also but now I have my doubts. Its leaflets sit flat and are not as thick, it only flushes 3 leafs and has already coned.

Im not sure what the last one is. Zamia Inermis? Im probably way off but I feel obligated to atleast guess.

Anyways, thanks in advance for any help you can give.

Dear Brian

lovely cycads collection you got there.and in post 3 its not Zamia Furfuracea..since iam growing them in our garden,i know that for shure.rest of your collection is new to me since,even iam seeing them through you stills for the first time.

here are few stills of that zamia that i got here !

love,

Kris

Brian,

In post #4, your plants does look like it could be Z. inermis, but I'm far from being an expert. Jody???

Jeff

Brian:

Do you know the approx. origins of your plants? The Cerat could be one of several spp. in the C. mexicana species complex; the closeup photo of the plant that you suspect might be Zamia inermis shows very clearly that the petioles are prickly (inermis = unarmed) so no can be...perhaps it's an artificially-propagated Zamia soconuscensis from the ejido nurseries in/near the Triunfo Biosphere Reserve...the other plant that is not Z. furfuracea/maritima appears to be Z. paucijuga or something quite close. This sp. does occur as a Michoacán native.

I echo Jeff Searle's view that Jody Haynes can provide additional input here that can clarify the IDs of your plants.

J

Brian:

Do you know the approx. origins of your plants? The Cerat could be one of several spp. in the C. mexicana species complex; the closeup photo of the plant that you suspect might be Zamia inermis shows very clearly that the petioles are prickly (inermis = unarmed) so no can be...perhaps it's an artificially-propagated Zamia soconuscensis from the ejido nurseries in/near the Triunfo Biosphere Reserve...the other plant that is not Z. furfuracea/maritima appears to be Z. paucijuga or something quite close. This sp. does occur as a Michoacán native.

I echo Jeff Searle's view that Jody Haynes can provide additional input here that can clarify the IDs of your plants.

J

DA Jeff!! I should of known this seeing I have 3 large Zamia inermis in the ground at my house. They have clean petioles. Thanks Stone Jag.

Jeff

Thanks Jay for your comments.

The Ceratozamia was purchased in Santiago Tuxtla, Veracruz, as were the Zamia's in post 2 and 3.

The Zamia that I though was Inermis was purchased in Acapulco. I searched Zamia Soconuscenis and it appears that you called it.

Hopefully Jody will gives his input.

Thanks

Brian

Thanks, Brian.

The locality suggests that the Cerat is, indeed, a somewhat tortured young C. mexicana.

Would like to see what Jody says, but #2 looks to me to be a natural hybrid involving maritima/furfuracea and loddigesii.

Would not expect to see a paucijuga in a nursery in Veracruz...again, perhaps a natural hybrid involving??? The teeth restricted to the apices of the leaflets, the overall flat aspect of the leaf and the almost Cerat-like incurved smooth leaflet margins make my brain hurt

J

Actually, the ceratos in Santiago Tuxtla would be more closely aligned with Cz. robusta than Cz. mexicana.

Since Zamia furfuracea is so variable, I think the second plant is just that... no need to invoke a possible hybrid origin, IMO.

The third one could possibly be a form of Z. loddigesii, since that is an east coast species and it is also highly variable... however, the shape of the leaflets, the arrangement of the leaflets on the leaf, and the number of leaves also suggests a cliff-dweller or possibly something more akin to a narrow-leaflet form of Z. splendens or even Z. verschafeltii, but I would not not be willing to bet my favorite cycad on anything that I just said about this plant! (But then again, I don't really have a *favorite* cycad, so perhaps I am safe on that bet!)

The one that has me scratching my head is the last one. My initial thought was some kind of Ceratozamia -- perhaps Cz. morettii (which is from Veracruz) or something like that. It is obviously not Z. inermis (for the reason stated), and it is definitely not Z. soconuscensis.

The two people who would most likely be able to help most would be Jeff Chemnick and Tim Gregory, although I doubt that either is a member of this board.

Hope this helps a little.

Jody

Edited July 30, 200817 yr by virtualpalm

Thanks for your input Jody,

The one that you dont want to bet your favorite Cycad on, could be stressed out. I got it from a lady who had it growing in the cut out bottom of a 5 gallon water bottle. It had just lost what appeared to be two male cones and obviously wasnt well attended.

I thought for sure Jay was on the right track with his call of Zamia soconuscensis due to it and the others they had for sale looking like they were artificially-propagated. Somebody is producing these, which is rare down here for zamia and ceratozamia. I have only heard of Cycadáceas Mexicanas doing this and they list c. mirandae, c. matudae along with z. soconuscensis however I couldnt find photos of these two Ceratozamias. Could it be one of those?

Anyways, every little bit helps so thanks.

Regards,

Brian

Here are a couple links to Z. soconuscensis with photos:

http://www.plantapalm.com/vce/species/zami...conuscensis.htm

http://plantnet.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/...a+soconuscensis

The last plant could not be C. matudae or C. mirandae because the leaflets are too wide and too short. Here is one link with a couple photos of C. matudae (C. mirandae leaflets are even longer and thinner):

http://www.plantapalm.com/vce/species/cera...mia_matudae.htm

Jody

Jody:

Topotype for C. mexicana Brogn. is "Veracruz"...neotype for C. robusta designated as originating in the vicinity of Tuxtla Gutierrez, Chiapas...since the populations of C. robusta Miq. that many people are familiar with are the whoppers from the wet parts of the Sumidero canyon adjacent to TG, and lowland tropical wet forests of northern Guatemala and southern Belize, all of which have long, rather lax leaves even when youngish; I extrapolate that a Cerat of this complex with a rather upright leaf crown from southeastern Veracruz is logically C. cf. mexicana but I'll defer to your opinion.

Brian: My eyesight can't be this bad...I'm assuming that the plants in #3 and #4 have minute teeth on the apices of their leaves...is this correct?

J

Jay,

#3 looks like its serated on last 1/3 of the leaflet and ends in small teeth at the tip. Lets see if I can post a slightly bigger photo.

#4 looks to only be serated in the last 1/3 of the leaflet, ending in a point.

One more of #4

One more quick comment regards #1.

When this Ceratozamia flushed it was a chocolate brown color for the first week. It only turned green once the leaflets "thickened up"

I definently appreciate all the comments.

As long as Im in Photobucket I'll post a bigger photo of the zamia furfuracea in #2.

Saludos,

Brian

That Ceratozamia is a cracker !

Jody:

Topotype for C. mexicana Brogn. is "Veracruz"...neotype for C. robusta designated as originating in the vicinity of Tuxtla Gutierrez, Chiapas...since the populations of C. robusta Miq. that many people are familiar with are the whoppers from the wet parts of the Sumidero canyon adjacent to TG, and lowland tropical wet forests of northern Guatemala and southern Belize, all of which have long, rather lax leaves even when youngish; I extrapolate that a Cerat of this complex with a rather upright leaf crown from southeastern Veracruz is logically C. cf. mexicana but I'll defer to your opinion.

Brian: My eyesight can't be this bad...I'm assuming that the plants in #3 and #4 have minute teeth on the apices of their leaves...is this correct?

J

I am not an expert, and it sounds like you know more about it than I do... so I will defer!

BTW, I got to see "true" Cz. mexicana in Veracruz:

And I have also seen the Cz. robusta in Sumidero Canyon (photos below):

BTW, after seeing the serrations on the leaflets of plant #4 it obviously must be some sort of Zamia... but which one I do not know.

Jody

Jody:

Thanks for posting those pics of both plants in habitat...as you know, most of these plants become far more frondose as they age...younger Cerats and Zs often are pinnae-poor to coin a phrase. The C. mexicana in situ is lovely.

Brian - ¡sepa putas! There is an ongoing debate about an enigmatic Zamia sp. from Chiapas that has been called Z. herrerae...while Z. herrerae most probably does occur on Chiapas' Pacific coastal plain, the plants from the Caribbean slope def. ain't them (IMO). Since Jody is of the opinion that your plant cannot be a soco, perhaps it's the problem sp.

Several Cerat populations flush choco, reddish-brown or golden. Not necessarily a good character for ID purposes...I have C. cf. robusta from same area that flush both green and russet depending on the individual.

When your plant cones, which should be fairly soon since it looks beautifully cultivated, please repost and we can thrash this caballo a bit more. In any event, it is a very, very attractive Zamia sp and you're lucky to grow it.

Saludos,

J

Edited July 31, 200817 yr by stone jaguar

FYI... I sent the photos of plant #4 to Tim Gregory, and he believes it to be Zamia paucijuga. He also says that this species has been in cultivation in the Acapulco area and that there are literally thousands of them growing in the foothills of the Sierra Sur.

Jody

Thanks Jody for getting Tim's opinion on its ID and for posting the photos of C. Mexicana and C. Robusta. I would love to see them in habitat someday.

Jay,

As soon as it cones I'll post a photo.

Here's one I picked up today in Xalapa. It was marked as C. Mexicana. These sure are beautiful plants.