Cooling/Heating Degre Days for selected locations

[bubba]

Update on this method  of Climatic Observation.My earlier post explained the methodology,which identifies areas and their corresponding Heating/Cooling requirements.Specifically, this identifies areas of cold and hot that directly effect growth of plants and particularly Tropical Specimens.

Texas-

Brownsville-Cooling-192 hours;Heating-257 hours

Harligen-Cooling-186 hours;Heating 317 hours

Florida-

Marathon-Cooling-600 hours; Heating-20 hours

Miami-Cooling-518 hours;Heating-27 hours

Ft. Lauderdale-Cooling-506 hours ; Heating-28 hours

Naples-Cooling-333 hours; Heating-73 hours

West Palm-Cooling-366 hours;Heating-63 hours

Melbourne-Cooling-220 hours;Heating-142 hours

California-

Los Angeles-Cooling-0 hours;Heating-500 hours

Palm Springs-Cooling-0 hours; Heating 683 hours

Arizona-

Phoenix-Cooling-0;Heating-673 hours

Louisiana-

New Orleans-Cooling-87 hours;Heating-591 hours

CONCLUSIONS -At this point,I am very suprised by the Data. Specifically,Melbourne,Fla. has required substantially less heating than Brownsville,Tx and correspondingly has required more cooling than Brownsville,Tx. Before this exercise, I would have expected this area of Texas to be far warmer.Based on these results,it seems that to this point Central Florida and The Rio Grande Valley seem quite similar.I believed the Valley was closer to South Florida in temperature.I think someone had compared The Vally to Vero Beach,Fla. Melbourne is a good deal further North than Vero.

Most surprising is the very cool nature of the West, including California and Arizona. I know this has been a cool Winter but was suprised to see no cooling requirements whatsoever coupled with extremely high heating requirements. In reviewing Averages,however, while cooler than normal,the average is not that different from this year.As an example,New Orleans,Louisiana has substantially higher Cooling requirements while not too different Heating requirements from it's Western countrparts.What does this mean as it means to Tropical specimens? Give me your thoughts.

[spockvr6]

Bubba-

I might have missed this in your earlier post....what temperature is being used for the heating and cooling cutoffs?

[bubba]

Larry, Sorry if you missed it.I will restate it.Heating and Cooling degrees are a good measure of climate.To calculate,you take your locations High Temp for the day and Low temp. for the day and divide.This number constitutes your average temperature for the day.

To compute Cooling/Heating degrees,you take your locations average for the day and either add or subtract from 65F,which is identified by engineers and climatologists as the temperature at which no Air Conditioning is necessary.

Accordingly,if your average temperature was 70F,the Cooling degrees for that day would be 5 degrees.Parenthetically,if the average temperature of a given day is 60F.,the Heating degrees for that particular day would be 5.

When this criteria is reviewed over a period of time(ie Winter),then a good idea of an area's climate emerges. This has been one aspect of my Winter Experiment.The Data compiled is for the respective locations from Dec.1,2007 to Jan.31,2008.Unfortunately, Winter in our area is over.

[spockvr6]

Bubba-

Thanks for the clarification.  I now see that 65F is the "cutoff".

Ive seen some charts which use various other temps between 45 and 70F.  Obviously, one has more heating hours if 45F is used rather than 70F, etc.

In my house, 70F might be more accurate though.  My wife will usually have the heat on if its in the 60's outside!

[NBTX11]

What are the numbers for Tampa and Orlando.  My opinion based on studying the climates is that Brownsville is nearly identical to the Tampa/Orlando corridor based on temperature.  The only slight differences is that Tampa/Orlando avg about 1-2 degrees warmer in Jan.  But, The RGV seems to warm up slightly faster in Feb through Apr.  So that by Apr, the Valley has a somewhat significant edge in temp.    

Average Temps:

          Brownsville Harlingen McAllen   Tampa Orlando Daytona

Oct        84/66         85/64      86/66     84/68   85/65    83/65

Nov       77/59         77/57      78/59     78/61   79/59    77/57

Dec       70/52         70/50      71/52     72/55   73/53    71/50

Jan       69/50         69/48       70/50     70/52   72/50    70/47

Feb       72/53         73/51      74/54     72/54   74/51     71/49

Mar       78/59         80/58       81/60    76/58   79/56     76/54

Apr        82/65        84/64        86/66    81/62   83/60    80/58

[bubba]

Jim,The only location you mentioned that you mentioned that has cumulative Monthly totals on Weather Underground is Daytona.The numbers for Daytona for this Winter are Cooling-126 hours;Heating-243 hours. This is much closer to Brownsville which registered Cooling-192 hours;Heating-257 hours for the same time frame.Absurdly, Weather Underground does not give cumulative totals for Tampa or Orlando.The data is there but I do not have time to add it up.

Based on Daytona and Brownsville,it does appear that Central Florida and the Rio Grande Valley are similar. I was hoping that the Valley was closer to Vero,which is more tropical in nature than Central Florida.

[NBTX11]

The Valley is nearly identical to in town Orlando or Tampa (Not St Petersburg or Vero Beach or Ft Pierce on the east side).  Although actually the Valley is warmer a good portion of winter/early spring  (Feb-Apr)

The Valley is much wamer than Daytona, January heating/cooling stats aside.  

Look at the averages I posted, and the Valley is warmer than Daytona every single month of the winter.  Almost equal in January, but significantly warmer in Feb thru Apr.  

S. TX heats up faster than Central FL in late winter/early spring on average.

But I still say it's nearly identical to Tampa/Orlando, so that if a traveler were going from one place to the other in winter, you would not really be able to tell the difference in average temps.

Bottom line:  If you can grow a palm in Orlando FL, that same palm can be grown in Brownsville TX.

There are quite a few fairly tall royals in the Valley and a handful of decent size Cocos in the Valley (maybe more than a handful).  I suspect the same thing could be said about the Orlando or Tampa areas.

[bubba]

Jim,I think that the Valley and Orlando/Tampa are virtually interchangeable.I was under the belief that The Valley was closer to Vero,where a wide array of Tropical specimens can be grown,particularly close to the Water.The Valley's heat getty up still  may make it more tropical than Central Florida.I wonder how that aspect effects Tropical specimens?

[richtrav]

You are absolutely right that the lower Rio Grande Valley is a close match to the central Florida peninsula WRT winter minima. The freeze damage produced in the 1980s in McAllen and Brownsville closely paralleled what you saw in central FL, and coastal Volusia County in particular (urban/seaside Daytona, New Smyrna, the beach at Ormond, etc). This is going by the damage I saw back in '88 and '90 from plants around Central FL, including Dent Smith's yard. It was cold enough in both regions to kill most queen palms but warm enough that Acrocomia totai survived, for instance. Green-spined Livistona saribus and decipiens are also good indicator plants, they generally survived each area but died in regions just slightly north. Butyagrus were fine. Paperback melaleucas tended to freeze back to major trunks.

However, you do tend to see more tropical plants in South Texas than most of Central FL, probably because they take the generally higher temperatures, long periods of drought, and alkaline soils and water better than temperate plants. It's much easier to grow crotons than azaleas here

[Cristóbal]

(bubba @ Feb. 02 2008,16:57)

QUOTE

Update on this method  of Climatic Observation.My earlier post explained the methodology,which identifies areas and their corresponding Heating/Cooling requirements.Specifically, this identifies areas of cold and hot that directly effect growth of plants and particularly Tropical Specimens.

Texas-

Brownsville-Cooling-192 hours;Heating-257 hours

Harligen-Cooling-186 hours;Heating 317 hours

Florida-

Marathon-Cooling-600 hours; Heating-20 hours

Miami-Cooling-518 hours;Heating-27 hours

Ft. Lauderdale-Cooling-506 hours ; Heating-28 hours

Naples-Cooling-333 hours; Heating-73 hours

West Palm-Cooling-366 hours;Heating-63 hours

Melbourne-Cooling-220 hours;Heating-142 hours

California-

Los Angeles-Cooling-0 hours;Heating-500 hours

Palm Springs-Cooling-0 hours; Heating 683 hours

Arizona-

Phoenix-Cooling-0;Heating-673 hours

Louisiana-

New Orleans-Cooling-87 hours;Heating-591 hours

CONCLUSIONS -At this point,I am very suprised by the Data. Specifically,Melbourne,Fla. has required substantially less heating than Brownsville,Tx and correspondingly has required more cooling than Brownsville,Tx. Before this exercise, I would have expected this area of Texas to be far warmer.Based on these results,it seems that to this point Central Florida and The Rio Grande Valley seem quite similar.I believed the Valley was closer to South Florida in temperature.I think someone had compared The Vally to Vero Beach,Fla. Melbourne is a good deal further North than Vero.

Most surprising is the very cool nature of the West, including California and Arizona. I know this has been a cool Winter but was suprised to see no cooling requirements whatsoever coupled with extremely high heating requirements. In reviewing Averages,however, while cooler than normal,the average is not that different from this year.As an example,New Orleans,Louisiana has substantially higher Cooling requirements while not too different Heating requirements from it's Western countrparts.What does this mean as it means to Tropical specimens? Give me your thoughts.

hi bubba

any body who live in this area -  california,  arizona, north of mexico and most the west of the continant - can say this time 1 december 2007 - 31 januay 2008 is NOT close for average in temperature like you say !

in winter we in the most time have many days 25C/75 F and more. i think happ say for los angeles this winters the most cold in average of more then 30 years this i believe.

my family in la paz in the most south part of baja california and nayarit state by puerto vallarta both in tropical climate say to me they cant believe how cold is this winter there. i dont think many records broken but all in the west we have many many days and nights close to records of cold in these 2 months.

[bubba]

Cristobal,I know this has been a very cool Winter West but without severe freezing temperatures experienced last year.However,in comparing averages, I was suprised to see how cool those averages are. Specifically,Los Angeles experienced 607 Heating hours(my review showed I mistakenly reported 500) for Dec.1,2007 through Jan.31,2008(hereinafter the "period")The average for the period is 408 hours.As to cooling,LA reported 0 hours for the period while the average is 28 hours.

Palm Springs,regarded as a hot desert climate, reported 683 heating hours for the period.The average is 530 hours.As to cooling,0 hours were reported for the period while the average is 34 hours.

I have had a misconception,particularly about the amount of Heat experienced in the West during the Winter.Plese give me your comments.`

[sonoranfans]

(bubba @ Feb. 02 2008,21:54)

QUOTE

Larry, Sorry if you missed it.I will restate it.Heating and Cooling degrees are a good measure of climate.To calculate,you take your locations High Temp for the day and Low temp. for the day and divide.This number constitutes your average temperature for the day.

To compute Cooling/Heating degrees,you take your locations average for the day and either add or subtract from 65F,which is identified by engineers and climatologists as the temperature at which no Air Conditioning is necessary.

Accordingly,if your average temperature was 70F,the Cooling degrees for that day would be 5 degrees.Parenthetically,if the average temperature of a given day is 60F.,the Heating degrees for that particular day would be 5.

When this criteria is reviewed over a period of time(ie Winter),then a good idea of an area's climate emerges. This has been one aspect of my Winter Experiment.The Data compiled is for the respective locations from Dec.1,2007 to Jan.31,2008.Unfortunately, Winter in our area is over.

Humidity has quite an impact on the need for heating/cooling, as the bodys ability to cool itself depends on rapid evaporation of sweat.  We sweat alot in AZ, but it evaporates so quickly the skin is mostly not wet or slippery with sweat like back east.  I have felt sweaty hot back east at 80 degrees, but that temp is very comfortable here in AZ(I'll also bet its nice in inland, dry parts of australia).  I certainly dont ever put on the AC below 90 degrees, nor the heat on above 60 degrees.  Palms grown in dry areas tend not to burn at the same low temps.  I was reading somewhere that plant cells with less water content freeze at a lower temp(freezing point depression), and that the expansion of ice from water that tends to rupture cell walls is less likely when the cell walls are more relaxed(drier cells).  

That said, rio grande and florida are both great for grapefruit.  The rio grande area has the best ruby reds, my favorite.  California and arizona are not nearly as good for grapefruit.

[bubba]

Tom,Thank you for your comments.The Cooling/Heating Degree criteria of 65F is not an arbitrary number that I arrived at but rather a figure set by engineers and climatologists to measure data for numerous applications.I do understand that dry heat and cold is easier to handle.My point has more to do with the fact that the numbers show the West to be far cooler than I ever expected in the traditional Winter.Checking the averages,it has been cooler this year but not by as much as I expected in looking at averages.

Where is Gilbert,Az in the State and what have your experiences been this year?What Tropical Palms and plants do you grow in your area? my review of the temperatures in most parts of Arizona this year shows that only Yuma appears to have High temperatures that consistently have made it into the 60'sF.and it appears to be 5 to 7 degrees warmer than any other reported location.Has this coolness had no effect whatsoever on your Tropical palms and Plants?

[sonoranfans]

(bubba @ Feb. 07 2008,21:42)

QUOTE

Tom,Thank you for your comments.The Cooling/Heating Degree criteria of 65F is not an arbitrary number that I arrived at but rather a figure set by engineers and climatologists to measure data for numerous applications.I do understand that dry heat and cold is easier to handle.My point has more to do with the fact that the numbers show the West to be far cooler than I ever expected in the traditional Winter.Checking the averages,it has been cooler this year but not by as much as I expected in looking at averages.

Where is Gilbert,Az in the State and what have your experiences been this year?What Tropical Palms and plants do you grow in your area? my review of the temperatures in most parts of Arizona this year shows that only Yuma appears to have High temperatures that consistently have made it into the 60'sF.and it appears to be 5 to 7 degrees warmer than any other reported location.Has this coolness had no effect whatsoever on your Tropical palms and Plants?

this has been a weird year in AZ, my 10th here.  We have been about 10F below normal average temps for weeks.  I think its because of multiple arctic intrusions from the pacific northwest.  Gilbert is just east/SE of phoenix, about 20 miles, almost due south of scottsdale.  Our low this winter was 27.8F at the weatherstation 1 mile away.  We have dripped below freezing 5 times this year(about average on both low T and # freezes).  The humidity is mostly low so there is typically a large difference between the daytime high and the nightime low and temps plunge and rise rapidly.  Last night we hit 36F and today we will be 68F for the high.  Forecast says low seventies/low forties over the next week, much closer to the normal high temp of 72F this time of year.  I dont recally seeing so many days here where the temp didnt reach 60F, nor as many where the highs were below 55F.  The sun warms you(almost no cloudcover) so 55F can be very comfortable with a long sleeve shirt, low 70's is very nice.  There are times of the year where the arizona desert is more comfortable than Hawaii, at least to humans.

I grow:

queens

phx roebelinii

brahea armata

butia capitata

sabals(blackburniana, minor louisania, bermudana)

Bismarckias

Dypsis Baronii(3 gallon)

Roystonea Borinquena(3'tall 3 gallons)

No significant damage this winter except some bronzing of roebelinii not under canopy.

One difference here from back east is that overhead canopy can really blunt the nightime lows.  Mostly the wind is still when its cold outside, and overhead trees trap heat to create microclimates 4-5 degrees warmer than areas with no overhead.  I have hibiscus blooming in some spots with overhead canopy, no damage.  Other spots without the overhead, the hibiscus have been burned badly, no green left.  For this reason(ability of canopy to blunt lows), I do have a number of borderline palms for our zone(8b/9a, we are right on the line).

This years weather did not have lows that were a problem and the highs have been up to 10F lower, but most of my palms are pushing spears, slowly.  My most unusual palm behavior has been two bismarckia opening spears during the cool weather.  Not sure why, but it did rain at the time.  I have never seen bismarckias open up spears when the highs were in the fifties, kind of strange.  They are both very healthy after being badly burned(lost all opened fronds) in the freeze of jan '07, a 30 year low @ 20.3 degrees F.

[steve 9atx]

Tom

You're right about humidity affecting human comfort.  We consider degree days a little old fashioned since the concept  does not follow the pyschrometric chart which accounts for the affect of latent heat (aka humidity).  I'm not sure if plants care, however.  That is, is a "dry" freeze beter than a "humid" one?

Steve

[bubba]

Good question.My use of this index is based upon the uniformity of it's use and the fact that Weather Underground does the accounting.Ithink it provides a legitimate insight into a Region's climate.

However,if you never hit 32F.,I guess it's a moot issue.

[Cristóbal]

(bubba @ Feb. 04 2008,09:57)

QUOTE

Cristobal,I know this has been a very cool Winter West but without severe freezing temperatures experienced last year.However,in comparing averages, I was suprised to see how cool those averages are. Specifically,Los Angeles experienced 607 Heating hours(my review showed I mistakenly reported 500) for Dec.1,2007 through Jan.31,2008(hereinafter the "period")The average for the period is 408 hours.As to cooling,LA reported 0 hours for the period while the average is 28 hours.

Palm Springs,regarded as a hot desert climate, reported 683 heating hours for the period.The average is 530 hours.As to cooling,0 hours were reported for the period while the average is 34 hours.

I have had a misconception,particularly about the amount of Heat experienced in the West during the Winter.Plese give me your comments.`

hi bubba. one thing for remember is location of west coast. to west is 9000 kilometers / 6000 miles of pacific ocean. this is the largest ocean in world, the most deep, and change of temperature of ocean is slow. this afecting the climate of all the coast of pacific of north america.

all the coast of pacific of north americas very mild for this. for this reason one can grow some palms in vancouver british columbia canada !

theres not to much change from winter to summer if compare coast of oregon/washington/california/mexico with texas, florida. these two states have more extremes in winter, for there is more influence of north america continent weather in the winter.

in winter weather goes from west to east. or north to south.

in texas, theres no ocean to north or west. so they have more low cold temperatures and more hot temperatures in winter. i see for brownsville texas 26 N low temperature record of 12 F. (1899)

in florida theres ocean to west and east, and is warm temperature so this help for keeping temperatures more warm, but if cold comes from north the ocean cannot help much. i see for orlando and tampa 28 N low temperatures record of 19 F in orlando (1985), 18 F in tampa (1962).

and miami 25 N record low 27 F (1917)

for same latitudes on west coast north america it never get this cold close to pacific ocean. in mountains yes but not on coast.

in arizona in winter, high temperatures 80+ F are not common but 70+ F yes. the temperatures of desert are 100% afect of how high suns in sky.

in southern california/baja california in winter, santa ana winds can make temperatures in 85+ F in winter no problem for several days. but in this winter 2007-2008 this is not hapenning.

but most time the weather on all the west coast north americas mild not with many extremes of temperature with the afect of the many thousands of kilometers of pacific ocean to west. this makes the climate of california and mexico on pacific coast beautiful in most years

[NBTX11]

(Cristóbal @ Feb. 08 2008,22:11)

QUOTE

in texas, theres no ocean to north or west. so they have more low cold temperatures and more hot temperatures in winter. i see for brownsville texas 26 N low temperature record of 12 F. (1899)

12F in Brownsville is a once in a 500 year event.

It will never happen again in my or your lifetime, and probably not in the next 100-200+ years.

The low this year in Brownsville is 37F (3C), higher than 99% of Cal probably.

It is very rare to receive extremely cold temps in the RGV of TX, due to extreme southern latitude.

[Cristóbal]

it can get very cold in south texas in winter. and very hot. some winters may be no like in this winter but others can be very bad....

records say freeze can happen in november december january february march.

go to link for snow in south texas in winter 2004 !

SNOW BROWNSVILLE TEXAS 2004

[NBTX11]

(Cristóbal @ Feb. 08 2008,23:51)

QUOTE

it can get very cold in south texas in winter. and very hot. some winters may be no like in this winter but others can be very bad....

records say freeze can happen in november december january february march.

go to link for snow in south texas in winter 2004 !

SNOW BROWNSVILLE TEXAS 2004

My friend Cristobal,

As a Texan, I'm pretty well versed in TX weather.

You're correct, it "can" get cold in the RGV, but it is very rare, thus the zone 10a rating (and this year zone 10b).

By the way, that 2004 "snowfall" you reference (less than an inch or 2) was the first measurable snowfall since 1895, more than 100 years prior.  

It has snowed in LA, San Diego, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, and Tijuana Mexico in the last 100 years, so that is not a very good argument, in my humble opinion.

Not trying to dispute what you are saying, but the so called Valley cold is overplayed, imo.  It hasn't been "cold" there in 18 years (hard freezes).  Even with snowfall this was not a hard freeze as temps did not really drop below 0C.

I won't dispute that the record lows for the Valley are cold for being at 26N, though.

[Cristóbal]

yes some years brownsville like tampa/orlando/miami florida can be of zones 10b or zone 11. but in other years some bad freezes hapen. for latitude of 26 N brownsville is very cool in winter.

january average:

28 N -  tampa florida 70 / 50 F average 60 F.

26 N. - brownsville tejas 69/50 average 59 F.

34 N. - los angeles california 68/48 average 58 F.

for high/low and average temperature in january these cities are almost same.

but brownsville and tampa are much more to south of los angeles. 8 degrees and 6 degrees latitude.

but average in januarys almost same. because of influence of cold weather of interior of north america continant in texas and florida.

this is what i try to explain in these comments of today of the pacific ocean and how it afect the west coast of north america. theres much less influence of weather of north america continent in areas of west coast.

for this reason theres less extreme of high/low temperature. this is answer for bubba.

[Cristóbal]

one thing. i check for records for weather for tijuana for snow. in december 1967 some snow fall in high hills east of city but never is there record of snow in city of tijuana.

probaly same for san diego california.

but los angeles, more north yes i think they have snow 2-3 times in 100 years. not much on ground but some snow fall.

[NBTX11]

Good points, I enjoy discussions about weather and climate comparisons.  

LA is certainly equal on average with the "Valley" of TX and Tampa FL, in an average January, despite being much further north (as far north as Atlanta Georgia, I believe).

One thing to consider is that both TX and FL heat up much faster than the west coast in spring, for the same apparent reason that the west coast stays mild in mid winter, the Pacific Ocean.

[Cristóbal]

(syersj @ Feb. 09 2008,02:57)

QUOTE

Good points, I enjoy discussions about weather and climate comparisons.  

LA is certainly equal on average with the "Valley" of TX and Tampa FL, in an average January, despite being much further north (as far north as Atlanta Georgia, I believe).

One thing to consider is that both TX and FL heat up much faster than the west coast in spring, for the same apparent reason that the west coast stays mild in mid winter, the Pacific Ocean.

yes this is true springs more warmer in florida and south texas. it becomes more hot there more faster. the gulf of mexicos warm in most the year and becomes hot in summer for its not very deep in most places. and the currents of water come from the carribbean sea. water temperature can be 90 F in gulf of mexico in summer.

this is very good for tropical plants they can grow more faster in texas and florida than southern california. more hot days and nights and warm rain.

interesting thing of west coast is sea of cortez. in the north part because its in the most hot part of sonora desert (by yuma arizona, mexicali baja california) water temperature in summer can be 95 F.

this very hot waters what makes the monsoon in summer in sonora/chihuahua in mexico, arizona, new mexico, west part of texas in united states. some times when the wind comes from east in summer this rain can go over the mountains of baja california to arrive at pacific coast by ensenada/tijuana, san diego and less in area of los angeles.

i hope bubba does this of the heating/cooling for all the year.

[bubba]

This is some very interesting discussion and exactly what I hoped for. My Florida stubborn mindset results out of our Carribean Climate while Northern Baja and Southern California experience a more moderate Mediterrean Climate.The Valley experiences something probably closer to Carribean similar to Central Florida.

Notwithstanding these differences, it is amazing to me what is growing in Northern Baja and Southern California, particularly considering the Latitude. Coconuts in Atlanta,you got to be kidding me!Even though it's a cool year, those specimens keep growing and the Limits are continuing to be tested.

[NBTX11]

(bubba @ Feb. 09 2008,17:17)

QUOTE

The Valley experiences something probably closer to Carribean similar to Central Florida.

Correct, lots of heat and humidity in coastal TX, just like FL...although the Valley is somewhat more arid (less rainfall), it is still plenty hot/humid.

The upper TX gulf coast (Houston/Galveston) gets as much rainfall as FL and is just as humid.

Galveston's, for example, summer time overnight LOW is 80F.  That's low temperature.

[Cristóbal]

(bubba @ Feb. 09 2008,17:17)

QUOTE

This is some very interesting discussion and exactly what I hoped for. My Florida stubborn mindset results out of our Carribean Climate while Northern Baja and Southern California experience a more moderate Mediterrean Climate.The Valley experiences something probably closer to Carribean similar to Central Florida.

Notwithstanding these differences, it is amazing to me what is growing in Northern Baja and Southern California, particularly considering the Latitude. Coconuts in Atlanta,you got to be kidding me!Even though it's a cool year, those specimens keep growing and the Limits are continuing to be tested.

hi bubba ! thanks to start this ! to me this is very interesting.

in my life i go to about 40 states in united states - probaly more than most the americans ! - but most times i go to:

arizona (phoenix, tucson)

texas (laredo, brownsville, mcallen, el paso)

florida (fort laudardale, miami, florida keys)

and of course california (san diego, los angeles)

to me its very very intersting how diferent is the climates and plants in diferent parts of united states ! and every part is beautiful.

i like very much to study and learn of weather and climate and of course palms (and some other plantes). every day i learn some thing new - palms/weather - on IPS (and learn more words in english and practicie to write it).

[bubba]

Cristobal,Your techniques are well known internationally and I have read comments on them from people in Greece!That is amazing when you think about it.I guess that is what is meant by International.

Your English is outstanding.I am working on my Espanol.It is great to meet fellow weather/climate/palm nuts on this Board.

I was somewhat suspicious of Dave from So-Cal as I am sure he was of me until we met in person.We had a blast and he is not only incredibly knowledgeable but also a great guy.My only regret is that we did not have enough time.

My guess is that this is the case with all folks on this Board,even the ones I have offended,with my over the top histrionics.We need to do a home and away,although I do not think my area can compare with the Baja,especially La Paz.

[Cristóbal]

bubba the ips is a great place. in the spanish pages of internet there is some places good for the palms but the ips is the best.

where you live in south florida is a great place for the palms much more better than la paz. we can grow cocos in la paz but not so good like in south florida. most palms grow better in much humiditey. la paz is desert very hot, dry and more better for the cactus !  

this is bay of pichilingue by la paz

[bubba]

Cristobal,That,my friend,is a thing of beauty.Palms or no Palms!