Arenga seeds - how to germinate/best methods?

[TropicsEnjoyer]

Hello everyone. I got my hands on around 10 engleri seeds and 2 undulatifolia seeds. I’m wondering what the best way to germinate and grow these palms is. I haven’t been having good luck with baggy dates lately, even with cinnamon they got moldy. So i’m wondering what else you all try. I have some moss, soil, vermiculite, and need to get perlite. Obviously not all of this is necessary but i’m interested to know the combinations/seed starting mixes that I could use.

Additionally, what conditions do these palms do best in when young?

[Harry’s Palms]

I am going to be watching this as I have some Arenga Engleri fruit that are black now and falling off the palm. I have been cleaning and planting around my garden for fun while the weather is warm. Harry

[happypalms]

Well as a person who propagates a lot of seeds! A styrofoam box with a lid coco coir perlite mix just slightly moist no drops of water can be squeezed out of the mix, bottom heating 39 degrees Celsius. Or a community pot with the same substrate mixture bottom heating with the pot inside a plastic bag! Good luck fresh seeds is the key. 

[happypalms]

2 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

I am going to be watching this as I have some Arenga Engleri fruit that are black now and falling off the palm. I have been cleaning and planting around my garden for fun while the weather is warm. Harry

Be careful cleaning them Harry they are caustic and will burn precious little cultivation fingers. There easy to germinate. Even a pot of substrate sitting around in a plastic bag will germinate them. 
Richard 

[Harry’s Palms]

@happypalms  G. O o.  D   2 know. Ha ving tro uble ty ping. Just kidding man , yea I knew that from a scary experience with some Caryota seeds years ago in Hawaii. Thank you for the heads up though , it is scary if you aren’t prepared and probably best to avoid! My hands were totally numb for about 1/2 hour.

Also thanks for the info , I hope they sprout in my garden , that would be way cool! I have quite a few. Harry

[happypalms]

Just now, Harry’s Palms said:

@happypalms  G. O o.  D   2 know. Ha ving tro uble ty ping. Just kidding man , yea I knew that from a scary experience with some Caryota seeds years ago in Hawaii. Thank you for the heads up though , it is scary if you aren’t prepared and probably best to avoid! My hands were totally numb for about 1/2 hour.

Also thanks for the info , I hope they sprout in my garden , that would be way cool! I have quite a few. Harry

Burn baby burn ! There easy to germinate!

Richard

[TropicsEnjoyer]

12 minutes ago, happypalms said:

Well as a person who propagates a lot of seeds! A styrofoam box with a lid coco coir perlite mix just slightly moist no drops of water can be squeezed out of the mix, bottom heating 39 degrees Celsius. Or a community pot with the same substrate mixture bottom heating with the pot inside a plastic bag! Good luck fresh seeds is the key. 

Thanks for your reply and yes the seeds are fresh. However, I do not have coco coir and do not really intend to buy anything new right now. I have spagnum moss though, could that work?

[happypalms]

1 minute ago, TropicsEnjoyer said:

Thanks for your reply and yes the seeds are fresh. However, I do not have coco coir and do not really intend to buy anything new right now. I have spagnum moss though, could that work?

Yes the baggie method spagnum. Iam not a fan of the baggie method roots go in all directions sometimes up above the sprout, which comes from checking them disturbing them. Even perlite will work but once again iam not a fan of that either. But if works stick with it. Some people go bye there own perfected technique, and like my mum said if you find something that you’re good at in life stick with it. 

[Harry’s Palms]

I have had good luck with a good , fast draining soil with a couple of spoons of perlite . I don’t have bottom heat but if they germinate as easily as Richard says , hopefully it will work. 🤞Harry

[TropicsEnjoyer]

1 minute ago, happypalms said:

Yes the baggie method spagnum. Iam not a fan of the baggie method roots go in all directions sometimes up above the sprout, which comes from checking them disturbing them. Even perlite will work but once again iam not a fan of that either. But if works stick with it. Some people go bye there own perfected technique, and like my mum said if you find something that you’re good at in life stick with it. 

Well then, do I need to clean the seeds completely and then presoak beforehand as well? And should I be worried about mold or not really. Sorry for all the questions I just really want my little bit of seeds so “sucseed” 🙏🏽.

[happypalms]

3 minutes ago, TropicsEnjoyer said:

Well then, do I need to clean the seeds completely and then presoak beforehand as well? And should I be worried about mold or not really. Sorry for all the questions I just really want my little bit of seeds so “sucseed” 🙏🏽.

Yes clean the flesh of them be careful caustic and will burn. Fresh seeds and a sterile medium you should not have any problems. Just slightly bury the seed. The old rule with seed depth is a 1cm diameter seed goes 1cm in depth into the medium and so on for a 3cm seed 3cm in depth.

[Fusca]

25 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

I have had good luck with a good , fast draining soil with a couple of spoons of perlite . I don’t have bottom heat but if they germinate as easily as Richard says , hopefully it will work. 🤞Harry

If it's not very hot where you are (or during winter) you can put your baggie or container on top of your satellite TV/cable TV box or even your hot water heater to produce some extra heat.  Some seeds don't need it but a lot germinate much quicker with it. 

[TropicsEnjoyer]

I guess i’ll split my seeds between methods. Also they need somewhat deep pots right? I can use old water bottles and starbucks cups I assume 😂

[DoomsDave]

@Harry’s Palms have fun with your seeds! They sprout easy but slow and grow slowly as babies.

[Merlyn]

I have only grown from seeds a couple of times, so don't take my word for gospel.    I did succeed a couple of times with the baggie method, but the more successful setup was a clear storage bin with mostly perlite and a little bit of organic stuff.  My bin was roughly 8" wide x 12" long x 4" high.  I microwaved the mix and let it cool down to room temp.  After sowing I put the bin out on the back porch with a couple of hours of afternoon sun and left it alone.  I did sprout a bunch of Arenga Caudata, Westerhoutii, and some other stuff.  My biggest problem was forgetting to add water.  I managed to kill an entire tray because they went totally dry for several weeks...durrrrrrrrr.

[PalmBossTampa]

11 hours ago, Merlyn said:

I have only grown from seeds a couple of times, so don't take my word for gospel.    I did succeed a couple of times with the baggie method, but the more successful setup was a clear storage bin with mostly perlite and a little bit of organic stuff.  My bin was roughly 8" wide x 12" long x 4" high.  I microwaved the mix and let it cool down to room temp.  After sowing I put the bin out on the back porch with a couple of hours of afternoon sun and left it alone.  I did sprout a bunch of Arenga Caudata, Westerhoutii, and some other stuff.  My biggest problem was forgetting to add water.  I managed to kill an entire tray because they went totally dry for several weeks...durrrrrrrrr.

Did you have a lid on your tub?

[Merlyn]

@PalmBossTampa yes, but not a "sealed" lid.  It was just a regular snap on lid.  

[kinzyjr]

Back at the 2018 CFPACS Holiday Meeting, I bought a large stock (slightly over 1,000) of seeds and sold a bunch of them.  The remainder were germinated in small pots with bottom heat at ~90F-100F consistently.  Here is the For Sale thread with a photo of the germinated seeds:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/58812-seeds-arenga-engleri/ 

The folks who have followed my progress thread (Palms and Others of Interest) know I like to grow a lot of my landscape from seed.  Here is a photo of one of the three seedlings I kept and grew in the ground:

As others have mentioned, if you're is sensitive to oxalates, please use gloves to clean the seeds.  The reaction can range from a skin rash and lots of itching to hospitalization with trouble breathing.  The latter happened to a few staff at the Edison and Ford Estates down in Ft. Myers just from being near them when they flowered.  Please be careful.

[PalmBossTampa]

Guess I’ll crank up heat on Arengas I’m waiting on. I’ve had a community pot in shade I can move to sun and put a clear tub flipped over to ‘mini greenhouse’ em

I have some ryukensis I’d really like to sprout

[TropicsEnjoyer]

20 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Back at the 2018 CFPACS Holiday Meeting, I bought a large stock (slightly over 1,000) of seeds and sold a bunch of them.  The remainder were germinated in small pots with bottom heat at ~90F-100F consistently.  Here is the For Sale thread with a photo of the germinated seeds:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/58812-seeds-arenga-engleri/ 

The folks who have followed my progress thread (Palms and Others of Interest) know I like to grow a lot of my landscape from seed.  Here is a photo of one of the three seedlings I kept and grew in the ground:

As others have mentioned, if you're is sensitive to oxalates, please use gloves to clean the seeds.  The reaction can range from a skin rash and lots of itching to hospitalization with trouble breathing.  The latter happened to a few staff at the Edison and Ford Estates down in Ft. Myers just from being near them when they flowered.  Please be careful.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I follow your thread and really admire the patience to grow everything from seed. 

And yeah I used gloves for it all. Not sure how bad it would affect me but didn’t want to find out. So far I cleaned 8 seeds with water, dried them, sanded off any excess debris, and have them soaking for a day now.

[Bkue]

A neighbor has the biggest I’ve ever seen. I have a perfect spot for one but they feel super slow. I may be long gone by the time they get big enough to appreciate. What is everyone’s experience with growth? 

[Phoenikakias]

Oddly I do not have much luck with engleri seeds during a deliberate propagation but they germinate freely naturally in the ground, wherever adequate soil moisture is maintained.

[kinzyjr]

13 hours ago, Bkue said:

A neighbor has the biggest I’ve ever seen. I have a perfect spot for one but they feel super slow. I may be long gone by the time they get big enough to appreciate. What is everyone’s experience with growth? 

Slow to get started, then speeds up once the root system is in place.  Similar to Caryota.

[TropicsEnjoyer]

10 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Oddly I do not have much luck with engleri seeds during a deliberate propagation but they germinate freely naturally in the ground, wherever adequate soil moisture is maintained.

i’m considering just throwing them in a box with dirt and waiting for them to pop up instead of being all scientific 

thoughts?