Scandinavian/North European Palms

[Marco67]

39 minutes ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Thanks Marco, but this is outdated info. I know thousands of fortunei’s and hundreds of chamaerops. Olive trees are so common here they are almost old fashioned and oleanders of 6 to 10 feet high are a regular sight around Amsterdam. 

Nice big Oleander. They are in a pretty good microclimate it seems, very close to that house.

I don't think that is outdated info. Palmtrees are still a pretty rare sight in Dutch gardens in my opinion. People who ring my doorbell still ask me if they survive here in the Netherlands quite a lot 😀 You see them a lot more than you used to; I agree with that.  

[CascadiaPalms]

Some Northern European palm beaches on this list...

 

[Mandos]

24 minutes ago, CascadiaPalms said:

Some Northern European palm beaches on this list...

 

Number 3 is in Helsingborg. A city which my family has a long standing tradition of visiting during the height of summer too "feel the south". A very scenic city with good connections to Denmark (Helsingör) and Malmö. 

The beach theyre planted on is a man-made one. Lots of erosion during the year. Regarding it's palms they're all planted into the sand when the weather turns around, otherwise they're stored somewhere else. Extremely windy locale as seen by the state of the trachys. Nonetheless quite popular by the locals, good sunset. Although quite noisy because of the ferries.

The water on the other side of the strait in Denmark is one a another note probably one of the best looking in all of Scandinavia. Extremely pretty coastline with quite heavy sand and - during sunshine - turqoise blue water.  

The same procedure is repeated in palmestranden outside Fredrikshavn, Denmark. Although is beach is MUCH nicer compared to Helsingborg. 

On the other hand, Flor and Fjäre (Fjaere), perfect. An amazing tale of homesteading on an island outside Stavanger which creates a very ideal climate for palms. Honestly speaking i've never heard of the place before just now, thank you! What I can tell they grow Brugmansia (angels trumpet), which species im uncertain of. But correct me if im wrong, they are probably not the hardiest. 

From what I've understood they winter some plants in greenhouses on the island, quite hard to tell which though since many pictures conveniently leave out the bottom of the plants.  

[CascadiaPalms]

15 hours ago, Mandos said:

Number 3 is in Helsingborg. A city which my family has a long standing tradition of visiting during the height of summer too "feel the south". A very scenic city with good connections to Denmark (Helsingör) and Malmö. 

The beach theyre planted on is a man-made one. Lots of erosion during the year. Regarding it's palms they're all planted into the sand when the weather turns around, otherwise they're stored somewhere else. Extremely windy locale as seen by the state of the trachys. Nonetheless quite popular by the locals, good sunset. Although quite noisy because of the ferries.

The water on the other side of the strait in Denmark is one a another note probably one of the best looking in all of Scandinavia. Extremely pretty coastline with quite heavy sand and - during sunshine - turqoise blue water.  

The same procedure is repeated in palmestranden outside Fredrikshavn, Denmark. Although is beach is MUCH nicer compared to Helsingborg. 

On the other hand, Flor and Fjäre (Fjaere), perfect. An amazing tale of homesteading on an island outside Stavanger which creates a very ideal climate for palms. Honestly speaking i've never heard of the place before just now, thank you! What I can tell they grow Brugmansia (angels trumpet), which species im uncertain of. But correct me if im wrong, they are probably not the hardiest. 

From what I've understood they winter some plants in greenhouses on the island, quite hard to tell which though since many pictures conveniently leave out the bottom of the plants.  

Thank you for the insight and stories!!  Much appreciated.  😃

[Mandos]

Hello again and be ready for update!

I hope spring is treating you nicely. Here in Karlskrona we will be getting some Mediterranean heat these coming days. Temps will probably peak around 20ºC on Thursday! Unheard of this early during the year.

March and February has been incredibly dry with temp-means a bit above normals. A total of 13mm of rain during these months is quickly drying out the soil especially with the longer and longer days awaiting us with lots of sunshine. This weather will probably continue well into May/June so i'll be crossing my fingers. Our only solace is the relatively rainy autumn we had last year, hope the ground water is enough. 

I started today with planting. Ordered home 9 palms (got 1 one for free, thanks Gillian Plants!). In no particular order:

S. bermudana

S. mexicana

B. eriospatha

B. Odorata

B. Armata

B. Dulcis

B. Clara 'icy blue'

B. 'super silver'

C. humilis var. 'cerifera'

Aswell as the bonus one being a caryota urens

The coming days i'll be out in the sun and catching som rays 🌸☀️

And for all you northerners - I hope you will be doing the same

[EastDutchPalmNut]

Hello all. A new Dutchy jumping in on this thread. I have been sniffing around the forum for a few years. Last August I decided to sign up.

I am gardening in the east of the Netherlands near Doetinchem, right on the border with Germany.

I have been 'in to' palms ever since I bought my first Trachycarpus fortunei in 2010. The rest is history.

The climate here is shifting from 7b to 8a with a defined continental character with relatively hotter dryer summers and colder dryer winters compared to the rest of the country.

As with most in the north-west of Europe, I have mostly been planting Trachycarpus species.

Only laticectus and martianus are a no go so far. Chamaerops seem to do  well here too. In bad winters (-15°c and below) I will see some speers die and sometimes defoliation but in general they do well here.

Strongest by far is no surprise. T. fortunei hands down.

I am currently testing Sabal palmetto and Phoenix theophrasti v. Epidaurus in the ground. They had one week of -7°c  to -9°c nights with a few day frosts, which is quite normal here. The Epidaurus have 15cm trunks so still fattening up. They both lost their speers in their first winter but seem to be OK, fingers crossed. Hydrogen peroxide does wonders. I have been protecting both with a few layers of horticultural fleece and some overhead protection. Unfortunately a bit late in December. Hence the damage I think.

The S. palmetto is a 4 years old seedling that has had no protection and seems to just not care. It is frightfully slow but very much alive and well.

I am also having a second go at a Livistona nitida. The first one snuffed it at -8°c so I doubt it will work. It will get a warmer spot this time. We'll see...

For the future I have a bunch of Sabals, Butias, And Judaeas lined up and hopefully some Chamaedorea radicalis and microspadix.

It's funny how Düsseldorf is so close by and yet our climates are so different.

 

[Ben G.]

6 hours ago, EastDutchPalmNut said:

Hello all. A new Dutchy jumping in on this thread. I have been sniffing around the forum for a few years. Last August I decided to sign up.

I am gardening in the east of the Netherlands near Doetinchem, right on the border with Germany.

I have been 'in to' palms ever since I bought my first Trachycarpus fortunei in 2010. The rest is history.

The climate here is shifting from 7b to 8a with a defined continental character with relatively hotter dryer summers and colder dryer winters compared to the rest of the country.

As with most in the north-west of Europe, I have mostly been planting Trachycarpus species.

Only laticectus and martianus are a no go so far. Chamaerops seem to do  well here too. In bad winters (-15°c and below) I will see some speers die and sometimes defoliation but in general they do well here.

Strongest by far is no surprise. T. fortunei hands down.

I am currently testing Sabal palmetto and Phoenix theophrasti v. Epidaurus in the ground. They had one week of -7°c  to -9°c nights with a few day frosts, which is quite normal here. The Epidaurus have 15cm trunks so still fattening up. They both lost their speers in their first winter but seem to be OK, fingers crossed. Hydrogen peroxide does wonders. I have been protecting both with a few layers of horticultural fleece and some overhead protection. Unfortunately a bit late in December. Hence the damage I think.

The S. palmetto is a 4 years old seedling that has had no protection and seems to just not care. It is frightfully slow but very much alive and well.

I am also having a second go at a Livistona nitida. The first one snuffed it at -8°c so I doubt it will work. It will get a warmer spot this time. We'll see...

For the future I have a bunch of Sabals, Butias, And Judaeas lined up and hopefully some Chamaedorea radicalis and microspadix.

It's funny how Düsseldorf is so close by and yet our climates are so different.

 

Welcome to the forum! I am not from Northern Europe (except ancestrally I suppose), but I always enjoy seeing what you all can grow so far north. 

I am not surprised that your Sabal is undamaged by the cold...and I am equally unsurprised that is growing very slow for you. I think it would be great to see a trunking sabal in northern Europe someday, even if it takes decades to develop a trunk in that cooler climate.

[EastDutchPalmNut]

Thanks Ben G!

I get that. I'm still amazed this actually works.

I remember seeing my first Trachy in the 80s in England. I knew the grew there but seeing one for real was baffling. I just realised I actually had my first go at Trachy's in the mid 90s after I brought home a few dozen seeds from Euro Disney where they grow in spades. I then knew it should work. Unfortunately I was to eager to share back then so I ended up with non.

Still I have 23 in the ground these day so who is complaining, right?

It would be brilliant if I would see the day any palm beyond Trachy's grow to their potential here, I agree. Especially Sabals! I have good hope S. bermudana will perform.

[Marco67]

Welcome to this forum. Believe it or not, I have lived in Gendringen for a couple of years. It's a nice, quiet little town. You have quite an assortment of palms.

Although in the west winters normally are a bit milder, it can also be very cold sometimes, so the best options are Trachycarpus and Chamaerops for me. My low this winter was about -7 °C/19 °F.

I have three Theophrasti's which are doing well. I don't have space to plant them out unfortunately, so they will remain in pots.

I am also into Sabals and my Louisiana's, Brazoriensis and mccurtains are doing well but as you indicated are increadibly slow. First dividing leaves after 20 years from seeds. I don't know how a palmetto will do but they probably are lot less hardy in a cool Oceanic climate than in a more subtropical humid climate. Your summers are probably a bit warmer than mine so perhaps that helps speeding up their growth. Good luck with all your palm projects.

[bubba]

Denmark, Norway...etc. Amazing and thank you!

[EastDutchPalmNut]

Hoi Marco, that is funny, you being from here!

I only moved here five years ago from Arnhem dragging along half my collection haha.

I think the extra warmth here will definitely will help with Sabals especially sins its not just the air temperature but also the radiation heat in to the soil. We have a lot of sun here. Especially during summer.

What population are your theofrasti's from?

Here are some pictures of mine as they are.

[Marco67]

3 hours ago, EastDutchPalmNut said:

Hoi Marco, that is funny, you being from here!

I only moved here five years ago from Arnhem dragging along half my collection haha.

I think the extra warmth here will definitely will help with Sabals especially sins its not just the air temperature but also the radiation heat in to the soil. We have a lot of sun here. Especially during summer.

What population are your theofrasti's from?

Here are some pictures of mine as they are.

I only lived in Gendringen for a couple of years. I had a job in Mechelen which is nearby. 

I bought Phoenix Theophrasti seeds from rarepalmseeds.com many years ago so I have no idea where they originate from. Theophrasti seems to cope a lot better with cold, wet conditions in comparison to Dacytylifera. I had a couple of those as well but they all perished.   

Unfortunately, my garden is only small so there is no room for more palms. 

Below some photos. 

Phoenix Theophrasti

Chamaerops Vulcano

Chamaerops Cerifera

Chamaerops Humilis

Trachycarpus Fortunei

 

 

[Zone7Bpalmguy]

@Marco67 All the palms look good but that windmill is one gorgeous palm!

[EastDutchPalmNut]

I agree, nice healthy plants. Especially the C. cerifera looks interesting. I haven't seen such a large one before in the Netherlands. Is your windmill a boy or girl?

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/profile/28047-zone7bpalmguy/

This tends to be how windmill's tend to grow around here. The climate seems to suet them.

 

[EastDutchPalmNut]

Here's a couple of my sweethearts. First two are my eldest that I moved as a 1m trunker. The rest are all fortunei forms.

Two Chusan, a group of 5 x'Takaghii', a Nainital, a small but 7 years old princeps x wagnerianus, two waggies with an other princeps x waggie (front) and some pictures of my youngsters. Including the Livistona nitida.

[EastDutchPalmNut]

Mind you, this in the ground for just a couple of years.

The oldest one has seen -22°c without damage in our previous garden.

[Marco67]

11 hours ago, Zone7Bpalmguy said:

@Marco67 All the palms look good but that windmill is one gorgeous palm!

Thanks. They seem to grow very thick trunks over here. 

[Marco67]

5 hours ago, EastDutchPalmNut said:

I agree, nice healthy plants. Especially the C. cerifera looks interesting. I haven't seen such a large one before in the Netherlands. Is your windmill a boy or girl?

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/profile/28047-zone7bpalmguy/

This tends to be how windmill's tend to grow around here. The climate seems to suet them.

 

My Trachycarpus is a male. They grow very fast and look very chunky. 

[Marco67]

1 hour ago, EastDutchPalmNut said:

Mind you, this in the ground for just a couple of years.

The oldest one has seen -22°c without damage in our previous garden.

Nice collection of palms.

My Trachycarpus took a -17 C/2 F in 2012 but not a leaf was damaged. I totally believe the stories that these things can take a -20 C/- 4F and survive in our wet cool Oceanic climate.  Species like Washingtonia and Phoenix would be toast without protection under these conditions. 

[EastDutchPalmNut]

Very true, I actually had two at my previous house. One lost it's spear in that horror winter. Must have been 2012. It came back with no less then 3 new trunks. Unfortunately I could not get it out of the ground. To much gravel and concrete.

[EastDutchPalmNut]

Still, I'm hopeful these 'Epidaurus' theofrasti's will cut it here. They lived thru their first winter and with some luck they recover and behave.

Probably a bit like Chamaerops. But that's OK to. They sucker profusely so that makes them hardier from the get go I hope.

[Marco67]

58 minutes ago, EastDutchPalmNut said:

Still, I'm hopeful these 'Epidaurus' theofrasti's will cut it here. They lived thru their first winter and with some luck they recover and behave.

Probably a bit like Chamaerops. But that's OK to. They sucker profusely so that makes them hardier from the get go I hope.

Totally agree.  Phoenix Theophrasti is probably the best option for trying a Phoenix in our climate I think. It seems to be hardier than Dactylifera and with the many suckers it forms has a better survival chance than Canariensis. It will probably remain more bushy and shrub like in our climate much like Chamaerops. 

Your version is the strongest form as well it seems: https://www.coldpalm.nl/new-population-of-phoenix-theophrasti-found-in-palea-epidavros-greece-moves-the-species-northernmost

[EastDutchPalmNut]

Yup, for now it is the only source for this specific population form.

I have been killing Theo's for some time before I ran in Yort's discovery. I hope to visit this population in the near future. It is a east facing bay on the Peleponnesos which is part of mainland Greece. The winters there are much harsher and notably wetter than the other known habitats. So far I managed to  kill 12 Theo's from all known population. The Epidaurus ones are the only ones surviving outside so far. I do have two surviving plants from a Crete population. They have seen -6°c before I brought the pot in to my greenhouse (spoiled, I know) not sure if they stand a chance.

 

[Marco67]

1 hour ago, EastDutchPalmNut said:

Yup, for now it is the only source for this specific population form.

I have been killing Theo's for some time before I ran in Yort's discovery. I hope to visit this population in the near future. It is a east facing bay on the Peleponnesos which is part of mainland Greece. The winters there are much harsher and notably wetter than the other known habitats. So far I managed to  kill 12 Theo's from all known population. The Epidaurus ones are the only ones surviving outside so far. I do have two surviving plants from a Crete population. They have seen -6°c before I brought the pot in to my greenhouse (spoiled, I know) not sure if they stand a chance.

 

That's a very disappointing result, unfortunately. The winters are a bit cold where you live for Phoenix species. During colder winters they will need serious protection. When they are more established they become a bit hardier perhaps.

They might stand a better chance in Zeeland I guess with its 8b/9a climate.