Scandinavian/North European Palms

[Arecaceus]

9 minutes ago, Marco67 said:

"But I think there are some Jubaeas around that have been planted in the 1980s."

That would mean that they are 40 years in the ground unprotected. That would be quite remarkable, considering some Trachies didn't even survive the 80s. I would like to see that. I don't know if you have photos of these Jubaeas.

"I can't speak for the southwest of the Netherlands, but I was surprised that you say they won't grow there longterm."

And I am very surprised that things like Butia and Jubaea grow unprotected long-term in Düsseldorf. I don't think Düsseldorf is milder in the winter than coastal southwest Netherlands.

Again, people do grow them here but I am only saying that they need protection during the colder winters.

 

 

 

No I also haven't seen them in person. I only remember on a forum seeing someone having Jubaeas planted then decades ago (this is already 10+ years ago) and I'm pretty sure some botanical or public garden (not Düsseldorf but maybe Cologne or Bonn or somewhere else) had one growing outside since the 1970s or 80s. If they were protected somewhat in the worst winters I can't tell you.

The only ones I've seen and have posted about are plantings from 20+ years ago and they're supposedly always unprotected.


Yes I also didn't think Düsseldorf is milder in winter than the coastal Netherlands but that's why I was surprised. Also most palms here are planted in urban areas and the differences between temperatures of lows in winter and highs in summer are very signifcant. Sometimes it's just 1-2°C but often it's even 5°C. There is also less wind and drier air. You notice it immediately when leaving the urban zones. But I guess we just have a different definition of hardy. Like I said experiences can be different. Kristof p says C. vulcano is hardier for him. For me C. humilis green form does better. I also haven't experienced stems dieing off but I can't tell it didn't happen to someone in my area sometime.

Also to get back to the point @Mandos as you can see you have to try for yourself. Opinions and experiences always vary as well as expectations.

[kristof p]

16 hours ago, Marco67 said:

I don't think it has anything to do with the intensity of the sun, its simple damp very cold weather which kills them.

"What is longterm? If you take 30 years then there is a chance there will be a winter that will kill all palms except T. fortunei."

I have plotted below a list of winters here with temperatures of -9 °C and below. Also the lowest temperatures of the last winters to show that we are in a mild period. 

I think -9 °C is about the limit Butia and Jubaea can take under damp conditions. You can see that it's more than the occasional winter. Under these conditions, both species need serious protection.

"I also thought that longterm only T. fortunei can be regarded as the only palm that will survive longterm"

Basically, Trachycarpus is indeed the only palm you can plant here unprotected without running the risk of losing it. Again, I don't know what the conditions are in West Flanders I am just saying what is possible here.

1980 -10°C/1981 -11°C/1982 -12°C/1985 -16°C/1986 -14°C/1987 -14°C
1993 -9°C/1994 -9°C/1995 -11°C/1996 -11°C/1997 -14°C/1998 -9°C/1999 -12°C 
2001 -9°C/2003 -9°C/2004 -10°C/2005  -13°C/2009 -9°C/2010 -11°C 
2012 -17°C/2013 -13°C/2014 -4°C/2015 -5°C/2016 -7°C/2017 -7°C/2018 -8°C/2019 -7°C  
2020 -3°C/2021 -10°C/2022 -8.0/2023 -5.0/2024 -7.0 

yes, some of those winters in the past are definitely going to kill almost all palms. In 63 the sea froze and temps went down to around -16°C at the coast. Even the palms in Londen would be dead (the thames froze and it went down to -16°C in Londen). Those winters in the eighties are also pretty extreme. We can not say  we will never see such a winter in our lifetime but for now we seem to be in a warmer period and with global warming taking such a pace in our region maybe it will be a thing from the past (for now). My biggest Jubaea only had some overhead protection to keep it dry during those 2010/2012 winters, no extra heat and it sustained no damage. My Butia was in an enclosure but without extra heat (it went down to -12°C inside the protection, this killed a cidp that was also inside the same enclosure). I think temperatures went down to around -15°C in 2012 or 2010 (can not remember it right but I know this was the coldest I ever experienced in my lifetime haha). No Trachycarpus where lost and fortunei/wagnerianus sustained little or no damage, T. manipur had some serieous leafburn. T. oreophilus was protected.

For me Cordyline australis is a good indicator of your climate and what can be grown. since 2012 I did not protect my only surviving Cordyline and it is still there, it lost a few heads during the 2020/21 winter but is otherwise fine and getting huge.

Most winters from 2012 untill now are indeed mild, we had two colder winters 2017/2018 (beast from the east) and 2020/2021 which damaged my Cordyline but none of those colder winters damaged my Butia and Jubaea palms, T. oreophilus also sustained leaf damage during those winters. I did loose 5 Butia palms during 2010/2012 so the one I still have is clearly a hardier variation so this ofcourse helps :).

The nearest station on wundermaps shows data from the last few winters. here are the lows. This is around 13km from the sea as the crow flies, places at the coast are a little warmer.

20/21:  -7°C

21/22:  -1.7°C

22/23: -5.8°C

23/24: -5.5°C

24/25: so far -2.6°C

 

[Zone7Bpalmguy]

4 hours ago, kristof p said:

yes, some of those winters in the past are definitely going to kill almost all palms. In 63 the sea froze and temps went down to around -16°C at the coast. Even the palms in Londen would be dead (the thames froze and it went down to -16°C in Londen). Those winters in the eighties are also pretty extreme. We can not say  we will never see such a winter in our lifetime but for now we seem to be in a warmer period and with global warming taking such a pace in our region maybe it will be a thing from the past (for now). My biggest Jubaea only had some overhead protection to keep it dry during those 2010/2012 winters, no extra heat and it sustained no damage. My Butia was in an enclosure but without extra heat (it went down to -12°C inside the protection, this killed a cidp that was also inside the same enclosure). I think temperatures went down to around -15°C in 2012 or 2010 (can not remember it right but I know this was the coldest I ever experienced in my lifetime haha). No Trachycarpus where lost and fortunei/wagnerianus sustained little or no damage, T. manipur had some serieous leafburn. T. oreophilus was protected.

Edit: I guess I accidentally put my response in this box. Oops. Now I can't erase this box below. Lol.

@kristof p 

 

 

@kristof pThat's interesting how similar temps affect palms differently in different climates and locations. Three winters ago I had a low of -15 to -16'Celsius (or 3-5'F) with one daily high only reaching -10' Celsius (or 14'F). I didn't lose any palms and all were unprotected, except I put a strand of mini lights on the trunks of my four larger windmill palms. I had some rough foliar damage but no deaths. Palms included sabal minor, needle palms, windmills, sabal palmetto, sabal birmingham, and sabal brazoria. I wonder if  my longer, hot summers help? 

[Marco67]

5 hours ago, kristof p said:

yes, some of those winters in the past are definitely going to kill almost all palms. In 63 the sea froze and temps went down to around -16°C at the coast. Even the palms in Londen would be dead (the thames froze and it went down to -16°C in Londen). Those winters in the eighties are also pretty extreme. We can not say  we will never see such a winter in our lifetime but for now we seem to be in a warmer period and with global warming taking such a pace in our region maybe it will be a thing from the past (for now). My biggest Jubaea only had some overhead protection to keep it dry during those 2010/2012 winters, no extra heat and it sustained no damage. My Butia was in an enclosure but without extra heat (it went down to -12°C inside the protection, this killed a cidp that was also inside the same enclosure). I think temperatures went down to around -15°C in 2012 or 2010 (can not remember it right but I know this was the coldest I ever experienced in my lifetime haha). No Trachycarpus where lost and fortunei/wagnerianus sustained little or no damage, T. manipur had some serieous leafburn. T. oreophilus was protected.

For me Cordyline australis is a good indicator of your climate and what can be grown. since 2012 I did not protect my only surviving Cordyline and it is still there, it lost a few heads during the 2020/21 winter but is otherwise fine and getting huge.

Most winters from 2012 untill now are indeed mild, we had two colder winters 2017/2018 (beast from the east) and 2020/2021 which damaged my Cordyline but none of those colder winters damaged my Butia and Jubaea palms, T. oreophilus also sustained leaf damage during those winters. I did loose 5 Butia palms during 2010/2012 so the one I still have is clearly a hardier variation so this ofcourse helps :).

The nearest station on wundermaps shows data from the last few winters. here are the lows. This is around 13km from the sea as the crow flies, places at the coast are a little warmer.

20/21:  -7°C

21/22:  -1.7°C

22/23: -5.8°C

23/24: -5.5°C

24/25: so far -2.6°C

 

Our weather is very unpredictable, unfortunately. It's not like the weather in the Mediterranean, where you have nearly guaranteed warm summers and mild winters. But overall we mustn't complain either; for our latitude, the climate is very mild and we are able to plant quite a few palms and other subtropical plants. 

It's also getting better for us in the north with the climate warming up. Cold winters might be less intense and we probably have them less frequently. 

You posted a photo of your Butia some time ago. It looks very impressive. Well done.

Never tried a Cordyline myself, but you do see them a lot in England. Because they are from New Zealand they might not mind the wetness so much but they are vulnerable to hard frost I believe. I saw really huge Cordylines in Brittany some years ago. That is another typical place where you see them quite a lot.

[Marco67]

23 hours ago, Arecaceus said:

No I also haven't seen them in person. I only remember on a forum seeing someone having Jubaeas planted then decades ago (this is already 10+ years ago) and I'm pretty sure some botanical or public garden (not Düsseldorf but maybe Cologne or Bonn or somewhere else) had one growing outside since the 1970s or 80s. If they were protected somewhat in the worst winters I can't tell you.

The only ones I've seen and have posted about are plantings from 20+ years ago and they're supposedly always unprotected.


Yes I also didn't think Düsseldorf is milder in winter than the coastal Netherlands but that's why I was surprised. Also most palms here are planted in urban areas and the differences between temperatures of lows in winter and highs in summer are very signifcant. Sometimes it's just 1-2°C but often it's even 5°C. There is also less wind and drier air. You notice it immediately when leaving the urban zones. But I guess we just have a different definition of hardy. Like I said experiences can be different. Kristof p says C. vulcano is hardier for him. For me C. humilis green form does better. I also haven't experienced stems dieing off but I can't tell it didn't happen to someone in my area sometime.

Also to get back to the point @Mandos as you can see you have to try for yourself. Opinions and experiences always vary as well as expectations.

I agree, a favourable microclimate can make the difference between life and death sometimes.

The Jubaea looks very impressive. It seems to be planted by the city. Nice they have chosen for something more exotic. It's seems to be in a pretty sheltered location which forms a nice microclimate. 

Hopefully the coming winters stay mild for many more years to come. The plants get more established and should take the cold better if a bad winter does arrive.

[Palmy Portlander]

Mando

Greetings.

You may have seen the posts by the gardener in Alesund, Norway at 62 degrees north.  I recall he said Alesund is a 9a zone.  

He has planted a CIDP, a Washingtonia Robusta and Jubaea outdoors in his yard, which already has a Trachy F that looks to be 4 or 5 meters.  He has also planted desert plants, yuccas and perhaps opuntia.  He has posted five videos about his exotics in the last seven months.  His last video was from January, after a spell of unusual cold, -6c temperature, and deep snow, when he wrapped his palms.  (The url is extremely long so I have not inserted it here, but you should be able to find it by searching for "Alesund palms.")

Perhaps the two of you can consult.

I have learned a lot about different palms and their cultivation on this forum.  It is a nice distraction from the political news these days. 

Here in Portland, Oregon, we are a zone 9a in the middle of the city. 

We have warm, sunny,  dry, summers (mid-June to mid-September) and wet grey and generally mild winters.  In recent years we have also had spells of very hot dry weather - so now my hardy bananas are essential for protecting some of my rhododendrons from sunburn. 

But we also get visited by polar vortices.  We are about 100 km in a straight line from the Pacific, and protected somewhat from heavy winter rain and windstorms coming off the Pacific by the Coast Range to the west and from the more extreme weather in the interior by the Cascade Mountains to the east.  However, the Columbia River cuts an almost sea-level gorge through the Cascades, and the Gorge ends right at the edge of the city.  On some occasions weather from the interior to blows down the Gorge.  In the winter this can bring cold, often sunny and dry weather.  Or it can mix with the wet Pacific air and then we get snow or worse, ice storms. 

A year ago we had about five days of below zero temperature, with the coldest day about -10c.  This chill was accompanied by snow, freezing rain and high winds.  Trachy's  that were exposed to the wind that had been thriving for decades were killed outright.  We have a 9 or 10 meter Trachy F (which grew from 1 meter to that height in about 13 years) and it lost over half of its foliage.  It is ok now but has lost it lush appearance.   The cold dry winds are the most damaging because of the wind chill and desiccation.  

I have a Cordyline Australis that I call a "nonennial" plant, because about every nine years it is killed down to the roots by the cold (at about -6) and has to start over.  

I have begun growing a Phoenix Sylvestris, a Butia Capitata and Jubaea Chilensis in pots and once they are a meter high,  I will plant them in the yard.  I will place them where they can get some wind protection.   

My less hardy palms are a Washingtonia Filifera, some small Rhopalostylis Sapida (Nikau Palm) seedlings that I germinated and a Bismarckia Nobilis.  (Photos to come.) I keep them sheltered in our plant room during the winter and turn on a small heater when the temperature is going to drop below freezing.   Once they get too big I will take them down to the southern Oregon coast where there is a small area just north of the California border (42 degrees north) that is a zone 10a, and find someone to adopt them. 

I look forward to hearing your reports.

 

 

[Mazat]

On 15.2.2025 at 13:49, Arecaceus said:

Ja, richtig – ich wollte auch nur sagen, dass es nicht 30 Jahre braucht, um einen extremen Winter zu haben. Hier kommen sie alle (ungefähr) 10 Jahre vor. Wir hatten welche in den Jahren 2021/2010/1997/1985 … Die meisten Winter in meiner Gegend sind auch 9a und in den letzten Jahren sogar mehr 9b. Das Problem sind die nicht so milden, die ab und zu vorkommen. In extremen Wintern kann es immer einige Todesfälle oder schwere Schäden geben, aber wenn die meisten Pflanzen überleben, halte ich sie zumindest für winterhart. Kleine Palmen und solche, die sich noch nicht etabliert haben, sind empfindlicher, aber 2010 starben sogar einige einheimische Pflanzen und andere Bäume. Das passiert auch mit Pflanzen in der Natur und kleine Palmen in der Natur sind normalerweise durch ein Blätterdach geschützt oder stehen zum Beispiel im hohen Gras. 

Ich muss jedoch der Sonnenintensität widersprechen – sie ist nicht der entscheidende Faktor. Es sind Sonnenlicht und Temperatur. Es gab mehrere Threads in diesem Forum und es gab wissenschaftliche Beweise dafür, dass die Sonneneinstrahlung nicht der entscheidende Faktor ist. In unseren Breitengraden profitieren wir von viel längeren Tagen und damit mehr Sonnenlicht in den Sommermonaten als im Süden. Ich denke, es gleicht sich aus, solange es genug Sonne und Wärme gibt. Der jährliche Niederschlag ist auch nur ein Indikator. Feuchtigkeit gibt es in verschiedenen Formen und Ausprägungen. In manchen Gebieten regnet es konstant und in anderen nur in Strömen. Ich wollte nur sagen, dass ich dachte, Feuchtigkeit könnte der Grund sein, warum die Palmen im Südwesten der Niederlande angeblich nicht überleben und verfaulen. Ich war nur verwirrt, weil zumindest Jubaeas robust genug zu sein scheinen, um selbst die schlimmsten Winter zu überstehen. Vielleicht liegt es auch an der fehlenden Wärme. Ich weiß nicht, wie es in Westflandern ist, aber mir ist auch aufgefallen, dass es an der niederländischen Küste im Frühling und Sommer oft mehrere Grad kälter ist als hier und es dauert länger, bis 20-°C-Tage kommen und Hitze auch seltener ist. Unser Wetteramt definiert einen Sommertag bei 25°C+ und einen Hitzetag bei 30°C+, extreme Hitze bei 38°C+ und ich denke, das trifft auch auf Pflanzen ziemlich genau zu. Aber am Ende des Tages wächst, was wächst. Die Zeit wird es zeigen.

i can agree with these observations and all it takes is one really cold winter and there is a lot of damage afterwards and some exotics don't survive although they should be quite robust, hardy, according to my experience.
 

[Banana Belt]

On 2/16/2025 at 2:14 PM, Palmy Portlander said:

 Once they get too big I will take them down to the southern Oregon coast where there is a small area just north of the California border (42 degrees north) that is a zone 10a, and find someone to adopt them.

I have the perfect spot for adoption.  All of those Palms you mentioned, Bismarckia Nobilis, Rhopalostylis Sapida and W. Filifera will grow here very well.  In the latter half of last century, Brookings used to get the occasional Arctic Blast which pushed down from the Northeast over the Cascades, Coast Range and Klamath Mountains all the way to the coast, but in last 35 years these cold continental air masses seem to slow down and be redirected southeastward by the Klamath Mtns. 

About 10 years ago I talked with "Climate People" at OSU who were contracted by the USDA to map out microclimates along the west coast.  They were most interested in the various plants being grown here on the Harbor Bench, south of Brookings, two particular plants were a Ponderosa Lemon and Bearss Lime both of which will not tolerate temperatures below 29 F.  Earlier mapping along the coast displayed a 10a in this area mostly offshore but with 1/2 square mile in our location.  Mapping microclimates is done using many tools, but the most accurate uses the livability of actual plants growing in that area.  The challenge of mapping microclimates down to 1 square mile plots is difficult and subject to controversy.  In my opinion the reliability of these climate maps is best when more than several square miles of a zone can be lumped together over more than 20 years.  Small one square mile USDA zones isolated or separate is a guess but can be used to define even smaller microclimates on any persons home.  Even a 1 acre lot has microclimates, something all gardeners know.  

Last fall if found a Cordyline Australis growing behind my shed.  It was about 4 inches high and looked like a small clump of grass that I was about to mow down, it looked different so I left it.  It must have sprouted from seed left there by a bird, probably Western Jay as they like to collect seeds and plant them in other places.  I moved the Cordyline to a different location and is now about 3 feet high, growing like a weed.  There are many plants that have been planted here near Brookings Oregon, from all over the world, many of which have goon wild.  Some are invasive some less so.  One I do enjoy are Tree ferns, probably from New Zealand and Australia that are now wild along this coast.  They don't seem to go invasive but do sprout up here and there.

[Banana Belt]

@Arecaceus  @Marco67 et.al.  Jubaea are interesting because of their cold hardiness.  I have two 40 + year old Jubaea in my yard that I planted from seed and what I know about their hardiness relates to their age.  The older they get the more cold hardy they become.  In Chile people used to cut them down and drain the sap out of the trunk to make Palm Syrup or wine hence their common name Chilean Wine Palm, they are protected now.  From my observations and opinions Jubaea are cold sensitive when young, first 25 years of growth or before they start a trunk.  Also they are very slow during this early age, but when the trunk begins to show they start growing rapidly 30 cm per year +or-.  The trunk is saturated with sweet sap which gives the Jubaea extra cold hardiness or anti-freeze.  Who knows how cold hardy a mature Jubaea is, probably it could live in Norway or even Sweden once mature.  Trick growing a Jubaea in cold climates is getting the Palm to live 30 years or more before it gets its cold hardy trunk.  Once it gets the trunk, it can handle some very cold weather.  Just saying.

[Mandos]

Wow I love the discussions going around here!

Really interesting to see Oregonians (Cascadians?😏), Dutch, Belgians, Germans converse in this obscure thread!

And as most of you say, it really is true that one should try for oneself what can grow or not...  Guessing any chamaerops will be my next endeavour. Ideally cerifera. 

Anybody know the @ of the Norwegian guy growing in Ålesund? Is he active on this forum? Given Ålesunds already mild winters, the Foehn effect in that part of Norway must be a very welcomed bonus.   

I'm watching one of his videos right now (it's raining😆) and it really is amazing what he has achieved. He planted a CIDP in march? As a Swede I would never in my life attempt such a thing - april is the earliest in my parts (at best). A 4m tall flowering Trachy unprotected for 15 years. EVEN a Norfolk pine? Wonderful...

During dec/jan he wrapped up CIDP, jubaea, w. robusta, cordyline when they hit -6ºC with a heavy snow cover. Looking forward to what how Norfolk pine will look in about one month...  

[Mandos]

FYI: Karlskrona currently undergoing the last (and first) cold snap of the year with a record low so far being a frigid -7,8ºC. Arctic high pressure system.

On a personal note very nice seeing the sun for the first time since october.  

[Mandos]

On 2/16/2025 at 3:02 PM, Marco67 said:

Our weather is very unpredictable, unfortunately. It's not like the weather in the Mediterranean, where you have nearly guaranteed warm summers and mild winters. But overall we mustn't complain either; for our latitude, the climate is very mild and we are able to plant quite a few palms and other subtropical plants. 

It's also getting better for us in the north with the climate warming up. Cold winters might be less intense and we probably have them less frequently. 

You posted a photo of your Butia some time ago. It looks very impressive. Well done.

Never tried a Cordyline myself, but you do see them a lot in England. Because they are from New Zealand they might not mind the wetness so much but they are vulnerable to hard frost I believe. I saw really huge Cordylines in Brittany some years ago. That is another typical place where you see them quite a lot.

I've always pictured cordylines as being very frost tender. Like barely surviving when it drops below freezing? Trachys must be a lot more hardy

[Arecaceus]

10 hours ago, Banana Belt said:

@Arecaceus  @Marco67 et.al.  Jubaea are interesting because of their cold hardiness.  I have two 40 + year old Jubaea in my yard that I planted from seed and what I know about their hardiness relates to their age.  The older they get the more cold hardy they become.  In Chile people used to cut them down and drain the sap out of the trunk to make Palm Syrup or wine hence their common name Chilean Wine Palm, they are protected now.  From my observations and opinions Jubaea are cold sensitive when young, first 25 years of growth or before they start a trunk.  Also they are very slow during this early age, but when the trunk begins to show they start growing rapidly 30 cm per year +or-.  The trunk is saturated with sweet sap which gives the Jubaea extra cold hardiness or anti-freeze.  Who knows how cold hardy a mature Jubaea is, probably it could live in Norway or even Sweden once mature.  Trick growing a Jubaea in cold climates is getting the Palm to live 30 years or more before it gets its cold hardy trunk.  Once it gets the trunk, it can handle some very cold weather.  Just saying.

Yes I already know about your amazing seed grown Jubaeas and also the crazy microclimate of Brookings, Oregon from your posts. That's interesting information. Sadly wildfires are also endangering the natural habitat of J. chilensis. I bet that a full grown example might maybe live up to the extreme literature claims depending on the character of a freeze event. I also saw that you posted that they speed up when they start to trunk and that makes sense because the Jubaeas in my area of which I posted one above seemed to be growing a lot more than I expected in one year (I had once posted an update after a year). There are also smaller ones growing there and they seemed to look good in 2022, 1 year after an extreme cold event in 2021. If they can grow in Scandinavia in mild places needs to be tested because of the unique conditions. Would be pretty wild to see though.

[Arecaceus]

4 hours ago, Mandos said:

Wow I love the discussions going around here!

Really interesting to see Oregonians (Cascadians?😏), Dutch, Belgians, Germans converse in this obscure thread!

And as most of you say, it really is true that one should try for oneself what can grow or not...  Guessing any chamaerops will be my next endeavour. Ideally cerifera. 

Anybody know the @ of the Norwegian guy growing in Ålesund? Is he active on this forum? Given Ålesunds already mild winters, the Foehn effect in that part of Norway must be a very welcomed bonus.   

I'm watching one of his videos right now (it's raining😆) and it really is amazing what he has achieved. He planted a CIDP in march? As a Swede I would never in my life attempt such a thing - april is the earliest in my parts (at best). A 4m tall flowering Trachy unprotected for 15 years. EVEN a Norfolk pine? Wonderful...

During dec/jan he wrapped up CIDP, jubaea, w. robusta, cordyline when they hit -6ºC with a heavy snow cover. Looking forward to what how Norfolk pine will look in about one month...  

Idk the Alesund grower. Do you have a link? Sounds crazy, I just looked up where this is located and I didn't expect it to be any further north than Bergen. March is usually when I start planting, depending on the weather. Sometimes even February. If the plant sat outside in a pot before that it won't have a problem. Planting makes only sense when weather is warm enough in the upcoming weeks after.

A tall unprotected windmill up there sounds also quite impressive. Norfolk Pine I doubt because at least to my knowledge they are very frost tender. Even in the Mediterranean they only grow in the mildest areas. They also don't like much temperature fluctuation I think. Maybe something else? Some other Araucaria? And so he is growing a Jubaea there already? Then at least we already have that experiment going.

[Arecaceus]

5 hours ago, Mandos said:

FYI: Karlskrona currently undergoing the last (and first) cold snap of the year with a record low so far being a frigid -7,8ºC. Arctic high pressure system.

On a personal note very nice seeing the sun for the first time since october.  

Oh yeah I know ... The arctic high pressure even reached us here. Had 2-3 nights of frosts. But temps are getting way warmer. 18°C on Friday already.
Wait? First time seeing the sun because of bad weather? Not because of latitude, right? You're not THAT high up north, are you?

[Arecaceus]

3 hours ago, Mandos said:

I've always pictured cordylines as being very frost tender. Like barely surviving when it drops below freezing? Trachys must be a lot more hardy

There are many varities. Some cultivars are very frost tender. There are 2 very common Cordylines:
The green standard Cordyline and the 'Red Star'. They are usually readily available at plant shops and buliding supplies stores even. The green standard one is pretty cold hardy and the Red Star a bit more tender. They both seem to handle at least -5°C in my experience. But i only have them 2-3 years. From what I've read they can regrow from the base after severe cold.

[Banana Belt]

1 hour ago, Arecaceus said:

Sadly wildfires are also endangering the natural habitat of J. chilensis

I did not know about the wildfires, thanks for that information.  Several years ago there was a good discussion on the explosive growth of Jubaea.  It was that post and and another showing a picture of our Jubaea's that I first visited Palm Talk as guest.  I do believe that a mature Jubaea could be the most cold hard of all the pennate palms.  Just saying.  https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/19995-the-explosive-growth-ofjubaea-chilensis/?&page=4#comments

[Arecaceus]

11 minutes ago, Banana Belt said:

I did not know about the wildfires, thanks for that information.  Several years ago there was a good discussion on the explosive growth of Jubaea.  It was that post and and another showing a picture of our Jubaea's that I first visited Palm Talk as guest.  I do believe that a mature Jubaea could be the most cold hard of all the pennate palms.  Just saying.  https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/19995-the-explosive-growth-ofjubaea-chilensis/?&page=4#comments

Wow haven't seen this post before! "Well O.K., as a seedling they grow about as fast as Continental Drift" is so accuarte! 😂 Impressive how they speed up! What's so cool about them is the size once they start trunking. In pictures it never really comes agross but standing in front of it they are so majestic with those massive trunks and tight full crowns. Yes it's very possible that they are the most cold hardy pinnate palm. But experiences probably also differ for everyone.

[Mandos]

On 19.2.2025 at 01:45, Arecaceus said:

Oh yeah I know ... The arctic high pressure even reached us here. Had 2-3 nights of frosts. But temps are getting way warmer. 18°C on Friday already.
Wait? First time seeing the sun because of bad weather? Not because of latitude, right? You're not THAT high up north, are you?

And... freezing temperatures are probably gone for the year now here in Karlskrona. 18ºC in February? Thats Southern US-temps. Must feel nice... Here we have to wait until middle of May until those temperatures. Until then, at best 10ºC days. You should consider yourself lucky living in Western Germany, warmer summers than the Netherlands but similarily temped winters. And your location on the continent (as we Scandes say) renders you prone to warmth even in winter and spring 😖.  

There is no bad weather? Only bad clothes 😏 

Karlskrona is only like 550km north of Düsseldorf so well below the arctic line, we still get daylight during winter although it's scarce. Sunlight is swallowed up by marine layers off the Baltic. It makes our winters milder, but greyer like the PNW. Our only chance of seeing the sun is during these arctic high pressure events from our north - which rarely makes it this far south. Once or twice per winter.  

According to our national meteorological service, Southern Sweden just got Winter a few days ago. And yet there is a risk of wildfires here in the southeast. Quite ironic 😂  

[Mandos]

On 19.2.2025 at 01:55, Arecaceus said:

There are many varities. Some cultivars are very frost tender. There are 2 very common Cordylines:
The green standard Cordyline and the 'Red Star'. They are usually readily available at plant shops and buliding supplies stores even. The green standard one is pretty cold hardy and the Red Star a bit more tender. They both seem to handle at least -5°C in my experience. But i only have them 2-3 years. From what I've read they can regrow from the base after severe cold.

-5ºC to tender in my opinion. 

[Mandos]

On 19.2.2025 at 01:32, Arecaceus said:

Idk the Alesund grower. Do you have a link? Sounds crazy, I just looked up where this is located and I didn't expect it to be any further north than Bergen. March is usually when I start planting, depending on the weather. Sometimes even February. If the plant sat outside in a pot before that it won't have a problem. Planting makes only sense when weather is warm enough in the upcoming weeks after.

A tall unprotected windmill up there sounds also quite impressive. Norfolk Pine I doubt because at least to my knowledge they are very frost tender. Even in the Mediterranean they only grow in the mildest areas. They also don't like much temperature fluctuation I think. Maybe something else? Some other Araucaria? And so he is growing a Jubaea there already? Then at least we already have that experiment going.

Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/@nordicexperience_/videos

His instagram @norwaypalmtrees

Yesterday he posted a picture of his Washingtonia Robusta, which is declining fast. Luckily he is growing 100 filibustas from seed to weed out the frost-tender ones, real dedication.

The jubaea seems to be doing fine, been covered in frost cloth only 6-7 days this winter. 

He also posts different trees around the Ålesund area such as Araucaria araucana and Eucalyptus gunnii. Both seem to thrive.  

Naturally the trachy is doing wonderful.

Judging by the surrounding landscape it almost feels like being in the tropics: mountainous, cloudy, green, palms

[Arecaceus]

3 hours ago, Mandos said:

And... freezing temperatures are probably gone for the year now here in Karlskrona. 18ºC in February? Thats Southern US-temps. Must feel nice... Here we have to wait until middle of May until those temperatures. Until then, at best 10ºC days. You should consider yourself lucky living in Western Germany, warmer summers than the Netherlands but similarily temped winters. And your location on the continent (as we Scandes say) renders you prone to warmth even in winter and spring 😖.  

There is no bad weather? Only bad clothes 😏 

Karlskrona is only like 550km north of Düsseldorf so well below the arctic line, we still get daylight during winter although it's scarce. Sunlight is swallowed up by marine layers off the Baltic. It makes our winters milder, but greyer like the PNW. Our only chance of seeing the sun is during these arctic high pressure events from our north - which rarely makes it this far south. Once or twice per winter.  

According to our national meteorological service, Southern Sweden just got Winter a few days ago. And yet there is a risk of wildfires here in the southeast. Quite ironic 😂  

Sounds good! Yes but 18°C is pretty warm for Feb here as well. But by no means record breaking. Even before global warming became so apparent we usually got 10°C+ and often even 14-16°C days. Espescially at the end of February. But it's also the month where arctic air can reach us, like it did a couple of days ago. 20°C or warmer days can happen all year 'round with new records espescially in recent years. We also had borderline summer weather in March before (25°C+). It usually happens when warm air comes up from the south west. In spring it often brings Sahara dust which covers everything when it rains then.

I live in the "Cologne Bay" which has a special climate because of geogrpahic features. It is basically like a river valley basin. It's somewhat protected by small mountain ranges to the east and south west. Warm air gets trapped and there is also a Foehn thing going because of this.

Yes I was wondering because I looked up Karlskrona and I thought I found the wrong one but OK now I understand. Yes winters here are also usually the mildest but also the most dull compared to the rest of the country. Recent years seem to be even more dull.

Your location seems to have a great benefit from being a bit "exposed" and surrounded by water. Also mountains to the north? A mild climate in that region is pretty wild because just south at the other side even at the coast line it can get really cold.

[Arecaceus]

3 hours ago, Mandos said:

-5ºC to tender in my opinion. 

Well they might take more but in the last 2-3 years having them it didn't get colder than that. Not fully tested yet.

[Arecaceus]

3 hours ago, Mandos said:

Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/@nordicexperience_/videos

His instagram @norwaypalmtrees

Yesterday he posted a picture of his Washingtonia Robusta, which is declining fast. Luckily he is growing 100 filibustas from seed to weed out the frost-tender ones, real dedication.

The jubaea seems to be doing fine, been covered in frost cloth only 6-7 days this winter. 

He also posts different trees around the Ålesund area such as Araucaria araucana and Eucalyptus gunnii. Both seem to thrive.  

Naturally the trachy is doing wonderful.

Judging by the surrounding landscape it almost feels like being in the tropics: mountainous, cloudy, green, palms

I will check him out. I already saw the thumbnails. Alesund also seems to benefit from being surrounded by water and closer to the gulf stream and western air masses. Impressive that someone is growing palms at that latitude. The days must be very very short in winter there already but when it's cold enough they should be able to handle that.

I've also done the weeding out method before with various plants. A. auracana seem to be very cold hardy as well as E. gunnii. I have seen both in regions where it can get cold sometimes.

[Mandos]

3 hours ago, Arecaceus said:

Sounds good! Yes but 18°C is pretty warm for Feb here as well. But by no means record breaking. Even before global warming became so apparent we usually got 10°C+ and often even 14-16°C days. Espescially at the end of February. But it's also the month where arctic air can reach us, like it did a couple of days ago. 20°C or warmer days can happen all year 'round with new records espescially in recent years. We also had borderline summer weather in March before (25°C+). It usually happens when warm air comes up from the south west. In spring it often brings Sahara dust which covers everything when it rains then.

I live in the "Cologne Bay" which has a special climate because of geogrpahic features. It is basically like a river valley basin. It's somewhat protected by small mountain ranges to the east and south west. Warm air gets trapped and there is also a Foehn thing going because of this.

Yes I was wondering because I looked up Karlskrona and I thought I found the wrong one but OK now I understand. Yes winters here are also usually the mildest but also the most dull compared to the rest of the country. Recent years seem to be even more dull.

Your location seems to have a great benefit from being a bit "exposed" and surrounded by water. Also mountains to the north? A mild climate in that region is pretty wild because just south at the other side even at the coast line it can get really cold.

18°C in February would be record breaking here in Sweden. As well as in Finland and Denmark. My small province actually has the 2nd highest Swedish temperature recorded in February, 16,7°C in Karlshamn. Lots of cities on Karl- 😆 Karlskrona, Karlshamn, Karlsborg, Karlskoga, Karlstad etc... Understand your confusion, rest assured - lots of Swedes (usually Stockholmers) also don't know the difference.

18°C in February and 25°C+ in March is totally unheard of in these parts. Sweden actually broke the September record year, first time over 30°C... And our highest temp of all time is only 38°C.  A reading of 25°C in March would only be possible if the Baltic Sea stopped functioning as a heatsink. Idk, vaporated?

My location is probably one of the most exposed locales in the country, easy top 5 others being Visby, Malmö, Helsingborg perhaps? Very much surrounded by water, Karlskrona's slogan is "the city in the sea" or something along the lines of that 😉. Mountains up north is a great exaggeration. Hills rather, a high plateau. Enough to place us in the rain shadow atleast as well as experiencing miniscule Foehn effects. The area around Kalmar just north actually has the Winter temperature records. In other words, very optimal conditons for zone-pushing 😏.

Forgive me if i'm mistaken, but isn't the area around Cologne and Düsseldorf like Germany's wine country? I can swear i've heard one of the Rhine-cities having this ideal microclimate (5-6°C warmer annually than the rest of the city) on a south-facing slope? Lots of palms without protection. CIDP, sabals, jubaeas, olive trees etc. Almost like this hot-summer mediterranean conditions - but 1000km north of the Mediterranean. Only thing missing would be the guaranteed summer sunshine (come to Karlskrona )...  

[Arecaceus]

40 minutes ago, Mandos said:

18°C in February would be record breaking here in Sweden. As well as in Finland and Denmark. My small province actually has the 2nd highest Swedish temperature recorded in February, 16,7°C in Karlshamn. Lots of cities on Karl- 😆 Karlskrona, Karlshamn, Karlsborg, Karlskoga, Karlstad etc... Understand your confusion, rest assured - lots of Swedes (usually Stockholmers) also don't know the difference.

18°C in February and 25°C+ in March is totally unheard of in these parts. Sweden actually broke the September record year, first time over 30°C... And our highest temp of all time is only 38°C.  A reading of 25°C in March would only be possible if the Baltic Sea stopped functioning as a heatsink. Idk, vaporated?

My location is probably one of the most exposed locales in the country, easy top 5 others being Visby, Malmö, Helsingborg perhaps? Very much surrounded by water, Karlskrona's slogan is "the city in the sea" or something along the lines of that 😉. Mountains up north is a great exaggeration. Hills rather, a high plateau. Enough to place us in the rain shadow atleast as well as experiencing miniscule Foehn effects. The area around Kalmar just north actually has the Winter temperature records. In other words, very optimal conditons for zone-pushing 😏.

Forgive me if i'm mistaken, but isn't the area around Cologne and Düsseldorf like Germany's wine country? I can swear i've heard one of the Rhine-cities having this ideal microclimate (5-6°C warmer annually than the rest of the city) on a south-facing slope? Lots of palms without protection. CIDP, sabals, jubaeas, olive trees etc. Almost like this hot-summer mediterranean conditions - but 1000km north of the Mediterranean. Only thing missing would be the guaranteed summer sunshine (come to Karlskrona )...  

Reminds me of the names ending with -son. So Kalmar is the mildest area? Aren't there many small islands off the south coast of Sweden?

Yes and no. So the wine crop areas start south from the Cologne Bay. Mostly in the south west of Germany. The romans started to cultivate them here 2000+ years ago. The most important thing for good crops is sunlight. Hill slopes are used to capture more sun and heat to have more production. But they're also grown in flat planes. Those areas are also relatively mild regions in winter but not as mild as in the Cologne Bay. It's sunny here as well. Just not in winter. A benefiting factor is also the urban heat. Over 11 million people live in the metropolitan area. Here palms have been grown unproteced for a long time. There is also commercial Olive production near Cologne. But only started 20 years ago.

[Mandos]

55 minutes ago, Arecaceus said:

So Kalmar is the mildest area?

Yes and no. In terms of average winter temps throughout an entire year that would probably be somwhere in Skåne such as Falsterbo, Malmö or Trelleborg - which funnely is known in Sweden as the "Palm City" naturally a city I should have mentioned before xD: https://www2.visittrelleborg.se/sv/se-gora/354079/palmerna-i-trelleborg/detaljer

In short: During the 1980s, city gardeners from Trelleborg traveled to Alicante and bought home palm trees to Trelleborg which still lives today, they grow in containers which the municipality gathers during the winter and puts them inside huge greenhouse-like buildings. The practice has become so large that even a dedicated palm nursery has emerged called Trelleborg's palmen. Their signature palm called "Trelleborgpalmen" is a simple washingtonia filifera. In a few years it will be extremely interesting to see whether or not they manage to create perhaps new cultivars of even hardier filiferas?    

The area I was looking for is the one called Nizza, in Frankfurt (not that close to Düsseldorf, my bad). Top-tier microclimate. Ever been there? According to Wikipedia, even bananas can grow there? Feels very out of place for that to be possible in 'cold continental Germany'. Bananas among the industries and coal mines 😂

I traveled to Dortmund and Bonn back in april of 2015, I wish I was interested in palms back then - would have been an even better trip!

[Arecaceus]

14 minutes ago, Mandos said:

Yes and no. In terms of average winter temps throughout an entire year that would probably be somwhere in Skåne such as Falsterbo, Malmö or Trelleborg - which funnely is known in Sweden as the "Palm City" naturally a city I should have mentioned before xD: https://www2.visittrelleborg.se/sv/se-gora/354079/palmerna-i-trelleborg/detaljer

In short: During the 1980s, city gardeners from Trelleborg traveled to Alicante and bought home palm trees to Trelleborg which still lives today, they grow in containers which the municipality gathers during the winter and puts them inside huge greenhouse-like buildings. The practice has become so large that even a dedicated palm nursery has emerged called Trelleborg's palmen. Their signature palm called "Trelleborgpalmen" is a simple washingtonia filifera. In a few years it will be extremely interesting to see whether or not they manage to create perhaps new cultivars of even hardier filiferas?    

The area I was looking for is the one called Nizza, in Frankfurt (not that close to Düsseldorf, my bad). Top-tier microclimate. Ever been there? According to Wikipedia, even bananas can grow there? Feels very out of place for that to be possible in 'cold continental Germany'. Bananas among the industries and coal mines 😂

I traveled to Dortmund and Bonn back in april of 2015, I wish I was interested in palms back then - would have been an even better trip!

That's actually pretty cool. At least the palms in planters are big palms. Makes it a lot more appealing. Filiferas are very cold hardy actually. They're just a bit wimpy when it's too wet and cold but they can handle some hard frosts. People in western Europe and PNW have mixed opinions about them in wet winter climates.

No I didn't know, thanks for the information. Never heard about it but I know that palms grow around Frankfurt. They also have a mild microclimate there. Some bananas are very cold hardy. People here have very large ones. Our botanical garden has a whole field full of them. The leaves are frost tender. It's usually the first indicator if the first frost has occured in an area or not because the leaves take damage immediately. The stems are also quite hardy but in colder climates people let them freeze down to the bottom and they resprout from mulch.

Nice! Bonn is the most southern part of the Cologne Bay. Already a bit colder because of elevation at places but I also saw quite a few exotic plants there.

 

[Mandos]

15 hours ago, Arecaceus said:

That's actually pretty cool. At least the palms in planters are big palms. Makes it a lot more appealing. Filiferas are very cold hardy actually. They're just a bit wimpy when it's too wet and cold but they can handle some hard frosts. People in western Europe and PNW have mixed opinions about them in wet winter climates.

No I didn't know, thanks for the information. Never heard about it but I know that palms grow around Frankfurt. They also have a mild microclimate there. Some bananas are very cold hardy. People here have very large ones. Our botanical garden has a whole field full of them. The leaves are frost tender. It's usually the first indicator if the first frost has occured in an area or not because the leaves take damage immediately. The stems are also quite hardy but in colder climates people let them freeze down to the bottom and they resprout from mulch.

Nice! Bonn is the most southern part of the Cologne Bay. Already a bit colder because of elevation at places but I also saw quite a few exotic plants there.

 

Update on the trachys after this 10 day cold snap. Lowest temp record so far during this year, -7,8ºC. One day not rising above freezing. Are the pics clear?

 

This specimen has always been a bit on the smaller side. I'm unsure what these spots are though? Is it mold, or has it simply been a bit burned? 

 

This one however seems to be doing more than good. Very vigorous. No visible spots.

Have you @Arecaceustried any filiferas or musa basjoos in Germany?  

 

[Arecaceus]

3 hours ago, Mandos said:

 

Update on the trachys after this 10 day cold snap. Lowest temp record so far during this year, -7,8ºC. One day not rising above freezing. Are the pics clear?

 

This specimen has always been a bit on the smaller side. I'm unsure what these spots are though? Is it mold, or has it simply been a bit burned? 

 

This one however seems to be doing more than good. Very vigorous. No visible spots.

Have you @Arecaceustried any filiferas or musa basjoos in Germany?  

 

I'd suggest that you use this forum's integrated picture upload service. This will also imbed them and more people will see them. I can't see them.

Yes both. There is also W. xfilibusta btw. If you're interested in Washingtonias I suggest threads about Washies on this forum. Besides C. humilis you might want to try M. basjoo as well. They're relatively easy and start to grow at relatively low temps. At least here also not too expensive and readily available.

[Banana Belt]

On 2/20/2025 at 8:29 AM, Arecaceus said:

Foehn thing

We have the exact same thing here in Brookings, Oregon.  We call it the Chetco Effect because it comes down the Chetco River from east to west and gets very hot before it spreads out into the ocean.  This wind can happen any day of the year even winter and be 100 KM/hour steady hot.  Once ten years ago the wind was 90 km/hour and 49 C, it was horrible, dried up everything, killed many plants.  Charles's Gas Laws V1/T1 = V2/T2, V - Volume, T - Temperature, so when volume of a gas is compressed like air coming down a mountain it heats up proportionally, I think.  Not all Chetco Effects or Foehn's are bad, some are mild and really nice in mid winter.  I call it a summer in winter and hence a "Banana Belt".

[Scott]

Hi This is a great thread. I used to be on Palm Talk quite a bit when I lived in Southern California, and pretty much gave up my palms when I moved to Talent Oregon. I now have two in pots - a Trachy and an Atlas palm which is super happy with little to no attention. There are 5 Trachys planted in the front yard, but they are in full shade during the winter months. I want to try a Jubaea and see how it goes. There is a Phoenix Canariensis in the entrance to a Fred Meyer not far from here. It's been there for years, no trunk. I think someone must take good care of it. 

[Mandos]

17 hours ago, Arecaceus said:

I'd suggest that you use this forum's integrated picture upload service. This will also imbed them and more people will see them. I can't see them.

Yes both. There is also W. xfilibusta btw. If you're interested in Washingtonias I suggest threads about Washies on this forum. Besides C. humilis you might want to try M. basjoo as well. They're relatively easy and start to grow at relatively low temps. At least here also not too expensive and readily available.

Does this picture work? Is this simple cold-burning, or is it mold?

Is there any threads of Washies in Northern Europe or the PNW? Would be more interesting to see those, relative to like once in a lifetime cold snap in Texas where they managed like -20ºC or something during 10 seconds - before reaching +20ºC again (greatly exaggerated), whereas here in Europe our freezes are longer although generally milder. 

@Arecaceus @Banana Beltwhats your personal experiences with zone-pushing palm trees? Washies, butias, trachys etc.

[Zone7Bpalmguy]

1 hour ago, Mandos said:

 

@Arecaceus @Banana Belt

1 hour ago, Mandos said:

Does this picture work? Is this simple cold-burning, or is it mold?

Is there any threads of Washies in Northern Europe or the PNW? Would be more interesting to see those, relative to like once in a lifetime cold snap in Texas where they managed like -20ºC or something during 10 seconds - before reaching +20ºC again (greatly exaggerated), whereas here in Europe our freezes are longer although generally milder. 

@Arecaceus @Banana Beltwhats your personal experiences with zone-pushing palm trees? Washies, butias, trachys etc.

@Mandos@Marco67 (sorry Marco67 for tagging you here. I selected the wrong name and don't know how to remove the tag now. Anyhoo...)

That looks like cold damage and possibly from cold and dampness in my humble opinion. I'm a true zone pusher in zone 7B U.S. This winter hasn't been as bad but the previous two were rough. Here's a video after the 2023-24 winter, which wasn't as bad as the 22-23 winter but I hadn't started my YouTube channel yet.  A side note, I hardly or ever protect most of my palms.

 

[Banana Belt]

1 hour ago, Mandos said:

whats your personal experiences with zone-pushing palm trees? Washies, butias, trachys etc.

45 years ago in same place we live today I planted 2 CIDP's and 1 Washy, we had a week of very cold weather, snow drifts 4 meters high, strong wind, etc. and they all died, including most of the citrus.  Since then the last 44 winters have been less and less harsh where our location has zone has pushed up from 9a to 10a.  So it appears that the trick is to know what the future weather years in future will be.  Yes of course that is ridiculous to say, but like my first exam in college when given three things to be successful, Knowledge, Experience and Luck, we were instructed to pick only two and write them down.  This was an Exploration Economics class and after getting our grades about half of us got C's and the other hald F's.  When students asked the Professor why no B's or A's and why so many failures, he said that those who wrote down Experience and Luck, or Knowledge and Luck got C grades, but anyone who wrote Experience and Knowledge without luck and will fail.  Luck can substitute for anything but without it, failure is certain. To get an A we would have to write all three down, Experience, Luck and Knowledge because in order to be successful one can not just follow orders but must do whats necessary to succeed.

[Mandos]

5 hours ago, Zone7Bpalmguy said:

A side note, I hardly or ever protect most of my palms

Does that mean that your brazoriensis, birmingham, palmetto, butia (which species?) and sago all survived a low of 8'F without extensive protection? Like you, I rather not protect my palms and just let them do their thing. Only thing i do is fertilize them a bit during summer...

Nice video! Just subscribed  

7B appalachian zone? I.e mountainous chilly winter nights?

 

[Mandos]

5 hours ago, Banana Belt said:

we had a week of very cold weather, snow drifts 4 meters high, strong wind, etc. and they all died, including most of the citrus.  Since then the last 44 winters have been less and less harsh where our location has zone has pushed up from 9a to 10a.  

Thats very unlucky. Did you try again?

Good Professor. Independent thought and action is important. Problem with palms is they can get quite expensive, especially for people in cold regions where nurseries are often 500+ miles away. Online shopping works to an extent, but there's no guarantee that you'll receive what you bought. 

Put another way i'd rather try whats already proven than completely blow my money on something new. Like i'd rather plant a c. humilis now than a sabal palmetto - even though the latter theoretically should be fine in my climate. 

I guess the best thing would just be to start somewhere? Already scouring the internet for good deals for planting, the last frost has already passed so maybe in like 30 days it's time to start?

 

[Zone7Bpalmguy]

18 minutes ago, Mandos said:

Does that mean that your brazoriensis, birmingham, palmetto, butia (which species?) and sago all survived a low of 8'F without extensive protection? Like you, I rather not protect my palms and just let them do their thing. Only thing i do is fertilize them a bit during summer...

Nice video! Just subscribed  

7B appalachian zone? I.e mountainous chilly winter nights?

 

Yep, the birmingham , brazoria and regular palmetto were unprotected during the 8'F and remain unprotected today.  I do put a little heavier mulch around the small trunks on them, except the birmingham this year, I ran out of mulch and never got around to it. In the winter of 2022-23, they saw 3-5'F with a high one day of only 14'F. They had some damaged fronds but didn't look to bad (seems like I was 60 consecutive hours below freezing or 32'F) considering.  This current winter I've only dropped to 10'F but saw a stretch of 72 consecutive hours below 32'F. As for my sago palms, I do protect them, but I don't add any heat. They went through the aforementioned as well with only a blanket and tarp to keep moisture off the blanket. 

The butia died in the spring of 2024 but that one got protection but it still wasn't enough. 

I'm in the Tennessee River Valley and although Appalachian in a sense, the mountains are around me but I don't live in them. Unfortunately the mountains don't help me much either, they're just nice to look at, lol. Thanks for subscribing! My passion is palms and camellias but I enjoy landscaping/gardening. 

 

 

 

[Banana Belt]

1 hour ago, Mandos said:

Thats very unlucky. Did you try again?

Yes after the 1987 arctic blast that killed all my palms I planted two jubaea and one Queen.  So all in all it turned out real good.  Sometimes bad luck is not actually bad but rather a way to teach us not to give up which is good.

[Arecaceus]

9 hours ago, Mandos said:

Does this picture work? Is this simple cold-burning, or is it mold?

Is there any threads of Washies in Northern Europe or the PNW? Would be more interesting to see those, relative to like once in a lifetime cold snap in Texas where they managed like -20ºC or something during 10 seconds - before reaching +20ºC again (greatly exaggerated), whereas here in Europe our freezes are longer although generally milder. 

@Arecaceus @Banana Beltwhats your personal experiences with zone-pushing palm trees? Washies, butias, trachys etc.

Yes there are threads like these. I might even have posted there. I guess by northern Europe you mean western? Because I don't think there has been for Northern Europe. To give a short summary for me personally long term W. robusta fared the worst. W. filifera the best and W. xfilibusta is somewhere in the middle. But people have very varying experiences with them. They might put them in different orders. Butias I only started growing a couple of years ago but there are some in my area all looking good. Trachies are not a zone push here and they are all over the place. I have 3 bigger fortunei and several other ones like wagnerianus, takil and such.