Butia capita not looking to healthy

[happypalms]

I noticed today my butia is not looking to healthy pretty well much on the way out. Planted 23 years ago from a tube stock in a hot dry rocky section of my garden. It looks like a major nutrient deficiency. Iam not to worried about it I have another one looking a lot healthier. But  this one is certainly not in good health it wa# part of the original palm plantings in the garden it will be missed.

[Phoenikakias]

My guess is fungal disease. From what I see first died the newest rosette of fully developed leaves. Then I am not sure whether disease spread to the meristem and spear leaf dies too or the green part is new growth meaning that the plant is coming back to health. In first case I had in the past numerous Sabal specimens died with those symptoms and in the sequence I have described (first newest fully developed leaves, then spear leaf and meristem, older leaves on the other hand were not immediately affected). A microscopic inspection revealed in all similar cases as culprit Rhizoctonia.

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Looks like the leaves are a little droopy but that could be in too much shade. Pull out the spear and treat with fungicide in the cavity. Not sure if it can be saved but here, when we have cold damage, (I know you have not had that) we cut the trunk off until we find solid white emerging spear. That means some times several feet of trunk and sometimes almost to the ground. Have to do it in increments so you do not go too deep past where the spear is formed inside the trunk. Need to sterilize the saw afterward in case it is a disease as you do not want to spread it with the saw. 

[Harry’s Palms]

Sorry to see this . It is always tough to have one fade. Harry

[Merlyn]

I'd also guess crown rot.  Try some hydrogen peroxide in the center and see if it bubbles up.  I have one Butia (supposedly a Jubaea hybrid) that keeps on getting crown rot over the winter.  It collects oak leaves in the center and then they sit and decompose.  The same thing may be happening there.  Hydrogen peroxide, copper-based fungicide, Daconil, Mancozeb are all good treatments.

[happypalms]

7 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

My guess is fungal disease. From what I see first died the newest rosette of fully developed leaves. Then I am not sure whether disease spread to the meristem and spear leaf dies too or the green part is new growth meaning that the plant is coming back to health. In first case I had in the past numerous Sabal specimens died with those symptoms and in the sequence I have described (first newest fully developed leaves, then spear leaf and meristem, older leaves on the other hand were not immediately affected). A microscopic inspection revealed in all similar cases as culprit Rhizoctonia.

Thanks for information sounds like fungal from what iam reading. I guess if it was a sabinara I would out there crying and calling in the arborist. 

[happypalms]

6 hours ago, Jeff zone 8 N.C. said:

Looks like the leaves are a little droopy but that could be in too much shade. Pull out the spear and treat with fungicide in the cavity. Not sure if it can be saved but here, when we have cold damage, (I know you have not had that) we cut the trunk off until we find solid white emerging spear. That means some times several feet of trunk and sometimes almost to the ground. Have to do it in increments so you do not go too deep past where the spear is formed inside the trunk. Need to sterilize the saw afterward in case it is a disease as you do not want to spread it with the saw. 

It is in shade getting shaded out slowly more and more each year. Your technique I have done with smaller palms not one this size could be worth a try. I do t think cold is the culprit. Over the years I have lost a few palms to disease. I guess that’s gardening.

[happypalms]

5 hours ago, Harry’s Palms said:

Sorry to see this . It is always tough to have one fade. Harry

You kinda get an attachment to your palms like pets watching them grow. I think the palm is pretty doomed some good suggestions to what it might be I will give them a go. 
Richard 

[happypalms]

3 hours ago, Merlyn said:

I'd also guess crown rot.  Try some hydrogen peroxide in the center and see if it bubbles up.  I have one Butia (supposedly a Jubaea hybrid) that keeps on getting crown rot over the winter.  It collects oak leaves in the center and then they sit and decompose.  The same thing may be happening there.  Hydrogen peroxide, copper-based fungicide, Daconil, Mancozeb are all good treatments.

Thanks merlyn from the green colour around the base I guess you’re correct as with the other posts. Some great minds out there willing to share information that’s greatly appreciated. I can get industrial peroxide a lot stronger than chemist brought one would that be to strong to use. I think the she oak leaves may have gotten in around the centre as you suggested along with a wet season after a very dry 6 months. Your pretty well much on the grow thanks for the grow information. I have been working in the horticulture industry for 35 years and you always learn something new about plants daily.

[Tomas]

25 minutes ago, happypalms said:

Thanks for information sounds like fungal from what iam reading. I guess if it was a sabinara I would out there crying and calling in the arborist. 

Whatever It Is, I think the palm Is getting out of It. There are new fronds emerging with dead tips, but green at the bottom. Look if there are some deformed young fronds, that could indicate boron deficiency, maybe induces by the cold Winter, but transient with the warm season

[happypalms]

16 minutes ago, Tomas said:

Whatever It Is, I think the palm Is getting out of It. There are new fronds emerging with dead tips, but green at the bottom. Look if there are some deformed young fronds, that could indicate boron deficiency, maybe induces by the cold Winter, but transient with the warm season

Boron is one element that is lacking in soils in our area but very tricky to use if given the wrong amounts. Speaking from experience with boron I had to fertigate with it once the recipe I was  given said 2000 grams when it was  written down wrong it should have read 200 grams the entire 4000 trees burnt to a crisp slowly recovering. The discussion with the boss was a heated one down to that’s not my hand writing to I don’t use that colour ink pen his fault not mine, but to this day at work the blokes I work with still call me the moron with the boron an inside joke I wear well and laugh knowing it was the  bosses fault who would not accept responsibility. Iam currently still working there after 20 years. So boron to me is an element that brings very different meaning. A couple of grams should do fine for a palm of this size I think 🤔 

[Fusca]

Butia are pretty tough palms!  This small one suffered some crown rot and spear-pull after -13°C temperature in 2021.  All 3 of my Butia survived but I ended up cutting the trunk on this one and one other.

[SeanK]

You may have to cut the crown to treat it. I doubt you see enough cold at your place as B.odorata is bulletproof to -10°C.

[happypalms]

8 hours ago, Fusca said:

Butia are pretty tough palms!  This small one suffered some crown rot and spear-pull after -13°C temperature in 2021.  All 3 of my Butia survived but I ended up cutting the trunk on this one and one other.

 Minus 13 that’s insane temperature for a palm to live testiment to how tough they are. I might have to get the chainsaw out and cut away until the crown is exposed.

[happypalms]

3 hours ago, SeanK said:

You may have to cut the crown to treat it. I doubt you see enough cold at your place as B.odorata is bulletproof to -10°C.

I never really thought cold would be a problem for my one. From what I read in the posts they take a pounding in cold weather. There must be some cold places in America with a lot of palm growers who love palms in cold climate’s.

[SeanK]

Butias are popular in US coastal areas where there is some clay in the soil. Seems sand leeches too many minerals. They look best in our USDA z8b and z9a. Where they suffer is with freezing precipitation. Sabal palmetto is more durable.

[Phoenikakias]

7 hours ago, happypalms said:

I never really thought cold would be a problem for my one. From what I read in the posts they take a pounding in cold weather. There must be some cold places in America with a lot of palm growers who love palms in cold climate’s.

Richard, I remember an Italian grower (Sergio Querqilini) reporting that Butia was rotting readily in the garden of his weekend home by the sea (sandy soil where Dracaena draco, Jubaeopsis caffra all Sabal spp and piccabeen palms were thriving) due to very moist conditions, while all kinds of Butia were thriving much more inland in the district of Rome, despite that it is considerably colder (even in the centro storico and the botanical garden absolutely no signs of Queen or Pygmy Date palms to get an idea).

[Merlyn]

I don't think it needs to get really cold to get a crown rot.  My Butia got crown rots every winter with temps just below freezing, roughly 27-30F (-1 to -3C).  I'm sure the cold played a part, but my gut feel is that it was decomposing oak leaves in the crown holding scuzzy water in the crown.

[Tomas]

My reference to the cold of winter was connected to the possible boron deficiency, beside boron poor presence in the dirt, cold, high pH and drought limit the uptake of this microelement too. I think to remember you got dry winters and now you got some good rain, so with the summer approaching this could be the reason the palm is recovering (I hope)

I think a drench of 60 gramms of borax dissolved in 20 litres (2 ounces in 5 gallons as recommended in the IFAS site) should bring some positive effects