Do nucifera fronds tolerate nighttemps slightly above 32F?

[Axel Amsterdam]

From older posts of Florida coconuts I know the nucifera fronds burn from frost, but do they also get damaged at higher nighttemps, e.g. 41 F? I don’t mean cool tolerance of the palm as a whole, just interested to know if the fronds are cool tolerant (above 32F without frost). 

Thanks, Axel

[mnorell]

Axel, I don't think the issue is coolness unless it is sustained (which wears the tree down and onward along the road toward a slow death). Many coconuts thrive and have excellent appearance in Central Florida despite occasional hits in the 30s F. The one coconut I have in a more exposed situation here in the Palm Springs area (a Red Spicata) definitely got damaged by a combination of repeated nights in the 30s and also unacclimated leaves being hit by low-angle winter sun, and the result was a terrible appearance by this past spring. But coconuts in general certainly don't have the sensitivity to generally cold temps (40F and above) in the vein of, say, Pritchardia pacifica, Cyrtostachys renda, or Artocarpus altilis.

But with that said, in conditions of a high dewpoint/humidity, frost can occur almost anywhere in the 30sF, and I think that would be the decisive factor.

[Axel Amsterdam]

Thanks, we briefly dipped to 42/43F and i was suprised to see the fronds of my potted nucifera so glossy and perfect a week later. Days are around low 60’s and it still very slowly still grows (in millimeters per 24 hrs). 

 

[Axel Amsterdam]

Made it into November unprotected without any leafdamage. Days upper 50’s/60f max. Now the nights are getting cooler, into lower 40’s. Humidity is high day and night. This tall is really cool tolerant, never imagined  that a nucifera could still grow slowly unprotected in Amsterdam for so long. 

[mnorell]

Many coconut varieties tolerate these kinds of temperatures for a while...just not for a long while. I have young coconuts growing in the ground here near Palm Springs (and there are mature trees in the vicinity as well) that experience daily temperature-swings very similar (most days around low 40s at dawn to upper 60sF afternoon) in December and January, but then the climate really warms quickly in February, and they tolerate it. Adonidia is similar but a bit less sensitive than a coconut here, where I also have several in the ground with no problems. And I had an Adonidia in a large pot when I lived in Mississippi and left it out in our courtyard every year usually until the day before the first frost. It took a good amount of chill with no bother for a month or two. Although as most of us know they're not the hardiest by a longshot, these palms are not the most tender under the sun (when you think about the really sensitive species like Phoenicophorium or Cyrtostachys)...they take the torture for a bit...but will start fading out if you let it go on too long. Yours looks fantastic...but probably best not to press your luck!

[Axel Amsterdam]

Thanks, i check every day for active growth of the marked spear. If it stops completely I will add some warmth to the rootzone and small trunk. Just enough to keep it active and see how long the fronds stay healthy outside in Amsterdam. 

When the frost arrives it will come inside. 

 

[Foxpalms]

16 hours ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Made it into November unprotected without any leafdamage. Days upper 50’s/60f max. Now the nights are getting cooler, into lower 40’s. Humidity is high day and night. This tall is really cool tolerant, never imagined  that a nucifera could still grow slowly unprotected in Amsterdam for so long. 

Someone has one planted out near London Heathrow which looks fine at the moment. Wonder how long it will last.

[Axel Amsterdam]

2 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

Someone has one planted out near London Heathrow which looks fine at the moment. Wonder how long it will last.

That’s really interesting, it would be great if you can take a picture this fall/winter. 

[Johnny Palmseed]

3 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

Someone has one planted out near London Heathrow which looks fine at the moment. Wonder how long it will last.

Not long I would think. Extended periods of cool, wet conditions are not good for a coconut. As stated above, slight dips into low temps can be ok but they prefer if the temperature rebounds quickly.

[Foxpalms]

12 hours ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

Not long I would think. Extended periods of cool, wet conditions are not good for a coconut. As stated above, slight dips into low temps can be ok but they prefer if the temperature rebounds quickly.

Mine in central London go out in May to around now and I will be bringing them back in on Monday. During the winter they have to endure 50s at night and high 60s low 70s during the day in the conservatory. Though as it isn't fully sealed it lets air from outside in so the humidity tends to be around 60-65% in there during the winter which is a good thing. By late March day temps in the conservatory already are in the 90s or 100s.  Mine can have a longer amount of time outside than others in the UK because we have the highest summer temps here.  Temps here are forecasted to be in the low 60s during the day and low to mid 50s at night till mid November they seem to be able to tolerate that for a few weeks. Though once the nights drop into the high to mid 40s and day temps in the low 50s that one near Heathrow will quickly perish. Nights there tend to be quite a bit colder than here which also doesn't help.

[Merlyn]

In my limited experience small ones (the size of yours) were ok above 40, and probably above 35ish with no frost.  My two small ones burnt to a crisp and died after one night around freezing, with frost.  But there are several around here trunking and fruiting in the Orlando area.  Like with most palms they seem hardier as they get older, or at least can bounce back from cold damage.  At the size of yours I would protect it from temps in the 30s and especially from frost.

[Axel Amsterdam]

10 hours ago, Merlyn said:

In my limited experience small ones (the size of yours) were ok above 40, and probably above 35ish with no frost.  My two small ones burnt to a crisp and died after one night around freezing, with frost.  But there are several around here trunking and fruiting in the Orlando area.  Like with most palms they seem hardier as they get older, or at least can bounce back from cold damage.  At the size of yours I would protect it from temps in the 30s and especially from frost.

I have now protected the soil and stem with fleece and a small heating cable as currently the very clear nights dip down to around 38f. The fronds stay unprotected because i want to see if the fronds of this tall variety can handle these night temps without damage. Will know more in a couple of days. The palm itself is still actively growing with the additional warmth.

[Axel Amsterdam]

A couple of nights around 39F, days now struggling to get above 50F. 

This is the set up: fleece and a heating cable around the stem/coconut. This will allow the palm to actively grow slowly.

The fronds show no damage so far. Humidity is high but no rain. Very low wind and the palm is tucked in a corner. 

[Axel Amsterdam]

i bought another red/gold petiole cocos (left).

According to the label it’s a Malay gold. In terms of stem and fronds i see very little difference between the two. 

[Axel Amsterdam]

But the nuts are very different in size. The Malay gold (under) being the size of the typical Dutch greenhouse coconut

[Axel Amsterdam]

Fronds nearly identical

[Axel Amsterdam]

December, the (possibly panama/jamaican) tall variety is still slowly growing with the help of christmas lights around the root and stem zone (covered by fleece). 

The fronds have been protected on a couple of nights when temps reached  34/35f to avoid frost. So far very little damage besides some minor spotting. 

[Jonathan]

Interesting experiment Axel. 

I understand that you're not actually trying to zone push a coconut, but just get an idea of the actual leaf hardiness, which will be fascinating to follow. Hopefully it survives through till spring...I've noticed a number of times that very marginal plants will hold on all winter and then drop dead at the start of spring. I have no idea why.

[Axel Amsterdam]

Yes, the roots and meristeem get enough warmth to keep growing. So it’s not zone pushing in cold temps, only the fronds are experiencing low temps day and night.  And so far surprisingly well. Our wintersun is insignificant, so sunlight doesn’t seem the decisive factor so far. 

It will be interesting to see how the spear develops. It will be weak as a result of cold air and little sunlight. But that’s for later. 

[SouthernCATropicals]

10 hours ago, Jonathan said:

I've noticed a number of times that very marginal plants will hold on all winter and then drop dead at the start of spring. I have no idea why.

I’ve seen that here on PT as well, I wonder why.
 

Maybe the final stress of the changing conditions, even if positive, does them in.  

[Axel Amsterdam]

Or the damage after months of sub optimal growing conditions (too cold, too wet) already did some invisible damage in the meristeem leading to an invisible start of a fungal infection which accelarates at higher temps. 

[Jonathan]

All of the above, I suspect. 

It's almost like they throw the last of their energy stores into attempting new growth and it kills them,  a bit like a stress flowering response...or a runner who drops dead at the end of a marathon!

[Axel Amsterdam]

My tall variety cocos today. It has been frostfree here so far (but low daytemps in general) and the fronds are ok. Some spotting and the leaftips are browning but on the whole not bad since minimum temps approach 35f/ 36f regularly. The spear keeps moving as the rootzone and meristeem are being warmed from evening till morning. 

[gurugu]

14 hours ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

My tall variety cocos today. It has been frostfree here so far (but low daytemps in general) and the fronds are ok. Some spotting and the leaftips are browning but on the whole not bad since minimum temps approach 35f/ 36f regularly. The spear keeps moving as the rootzone and meristeem are being warmed from evening till morning. 

Very good experiment/trial! I hope it works fine for you until warm months arrive and the palm thrives by itself.

How often, and how much water?

Lukewarm (lepid) or just warm water?

I also think the key is moisture for the leaves all year round.

[Axel Amsterdam]

1 hour ago, gurugu said:

Very good experiment/trial! I hope it works fine for you until warm months arrive and the palm thrives by itself.

How often, and how much water?

Lukewarm (lepid) or just warm water?

I also think the key is moisture for the leaves all year round.

Thanks, i find it equally fascinating to see it grow outside with very low light levels and almost no sun for months, with just bottom heat. Our high humidity seems to work in it’s favour so far. The spear is bleak but firm. 

I water every couple of days with lukewarm water from the dehumidifier inside the house. Around half a liter, although it could be more as it is planted in a very deep pot. 

[Foxpalms]

Might be worth attempting to do this with other hardier 9b palms. And see if they can survive Amsterdam's winter averages as long as you don't expose them to freezing temps. Bismarckia survives so far here outside year round in a pot next to the house wall. You would be surprised by how amount of palms that can take long cool winters as long as the freezes are not too bad.

[kristof p]

On 1/11/2025 at 10:37 AM, Axel Amsterdam said:

Thanks, i find it equally fascinating to see it grow outside with very low light levels and almost no sun for months, with just bottom heat. Our high humidity seems to work in it’s favour so far. The spear is bleak but firm. 

I water every couple of days with lukewarm water from the dehumidifier inside the house. Around half a liter, although it could be more as it is planted in a very deep pot. 

how is the palm holding on? I think last night the center of Amsterdam had a light freeze? is it still outside?

[Axel Amsterdam]

9 minutes ago, kristof p said:

how is the palm holding on? I think last night the center of Amsterdam had a light freeze? is it still outside?

yes, unprotected. The fronds are more or less the same, some spotting and brown leaftips. The spear is getting more spots as well. But the palm keeps growing. I will put some fleece over it for the next days. 

[kristof p]

48 minutes ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

yes, unprotected. The fronds are more or less the same, some spotting and brown leaftips. The spear is getting more spots as well. But the palm keeps growing. I will put some fleece over it for the next days. 

It is still hanging on but it does not look very healthy...still amazing it is holding on for so long! nice experiment.

[Axel Amsterdam]

yes true, this cold is too much for the baby fronds. The palm itself is very much alive though, growing a couple of mm per 24 hrs.