What is going on with my Bismarckia?

[talkjk]

Looking for some help on identifying what is happening here and what to do about it. We have this stinky ooz coming out of the lower fronds. The rest of the palm looks fine, plenty of new growth.. The ooz is only on the west side. I did some research here on palmtalk and . did see some post about crown rot. Not sure if this is what we have. Also read about treating with hydrogen peroxide, but we are unsure on how to apply it over our heads

[talkjk]

I used up 6 bottles of the 3% we picked up at WallyMart but never did see any foaming. It did wash out some stinky slugs. 

[talkjk]

We purchased 12% off of amazon and a squirt bottle. Diluted down to 9%ish and squirted it into every opening that I could reach 

[talkjk]

The reaction was quick. Foamed up and ran out.

[talkjk]

I will try again in a few days and keep up until no more foam. Then I will spray with the Daconil. 

[talkjk]

I am seeing most the foaming coming out at or below the inflorescence in two locations. Using the squeeze bottle helps get the solution down in between the tight openings. This is the second application of the 9% Hydrogen Peroxide  

[Merlyn]

@talkjk here in swampy Floriduh the old boots end up clogged with all kinds of scuzzy stuff.  There it's usually not an issue, but I can't say that I've seen ooze like that before.  There are a couple of possibilities that come to mind:

• Crown infection - usually this affects the newest spear leaves and not the old boots.  If the new spears are growing out normal speed and appearance, then you don't have a crown rot.
• Weevil infestation - the SAPW (South American Palm Weevil) is in your area and *might* go after Bismarck.  I know the Palmetto Weevil here in Florida is responsible for a bunch of Canariensis and Bismarck deaths.  Cutting off the old boots might reveal weevil holes.  A systemic drench of Imadicloprid is a way to treat it, if you can confirm the presence of weevils.  Crown drenches of surface pesticides might help, it's hard to say.  There are some FL weevil pictures here on the second page, including some green ooze photos:
• A trunk infection like Thielaviopsis is a possibility.  The "weeping" area on the trunk is a telltale sign.  It might be nothing, or could be something like sunburn. 

You can read more about it here, on Len Geiger's (IPS Director) website: http://www.marriedtoplants.com/palms/fungus-among-us-thielaviopsis-paradoxa/

[talkjk]

This beetle fell out of the infected Bismarckia @Merlyn. I hope It's not too late to attack with Imadichloprid. Should I open it up now or wait until I have the product in hand? 

[Merlyn]

@talkjk that sure looks like a palm weevil.  Hopefully some CA people can chime in on treatments for SAPW.  The only ones I know of are surface treatments (maybe not effective) and systemics (effective if caught early enough). 

Surface treatments:  Organophosphates are frequently used against weevils, such as Malathion for Boll Weevils.  Acephate (partially systemic), Malathion might help as a crown drench, but I don't know if any have actually been confirmed to kill SAPW on the surface.  A drench might deter or kill additional SAPW that could fly in due to the smell of the existing wounds.

Systemic treatments:  Imadicloprid and Dinotefuran are recommended by the CA AG people.  A soil drench or trunk injection is the normal treatment, but a crown drench is also recommended to kill any nesting in the old frond boots.

Since your palm doesn't show immediate signs of collapse (leaning crown, dead new leaves, etc) I hope it has a good chance of surviving the SAPW attack! 

If you can reach the lower fronds on that ladder, I would carefully slice off the old dead boots.  You can use a utility knife (careful!) or heavy duty garden shears, etc.  You may find more weevils in the boots, or you may see the weevil holes where they've bored in.  Injecting an organophosphate or Imadicloprid directly into those holes sure would help kill them faster!

[talkjk]

Thank you @Merlyn. I had some Hydrogen Peroxide left and squirted it on. Not as much foam this time but a few minutes later this larva dropped out. So I placed it in the bucket with the beetle. I sprayed them both with some BioAdvanced 3in1 that I had and they seem to like it. 30 minutes later and still no effect on them.  One more beetle flew in and we managed to smack it with a pickleball paddle. Sounded like a rock. But could not find it, Hopefully it is dead. 

[Merlyn]

@talkjk I hadn't thought of H2O2 as a pesticide, but I suppose it might irritate their skin.  Maybe it was trying to get away from the bubbling?  As far as the 3-in-1 goes, I'm not sure how much it takes to kill a grub that size, or if it works on contact or only through ingestion.  Some pesticides only work if the bug eats or inhales it, and aren't absorbed through the skin.  It might also take a couple of days to actually kill it.

I had some cut up Queen palm trunks in a pile in my driveway, waiting to be disposed of.  The yard trash people only take a certain amount at a time, so they were sitting there for a couple of months.  One day I walked past and saw 3 palmetto weevils scurrying about on the trunks.  I grabbed two of them, spiked them into the concrete and stomped on them.  The third took flight but buzzed around towards me, and I Godzilla-smacked it out of the air and then stomped on it!

[talkjk]

Amazon delivered the Imidacloprid late yesterday. I climbed up and using a razor knife i cut out as far as I felt comfortable doing. Removing some large older boots that ended up having some globs of stinky infected slime. I did not see any holes or signs of beetles or larva. I mixed up a batch and sprayed before it got dark I used a putty knife to pry open the boots and squirt down inside. Afterwards I noticed what looked like a grub trying to back out of a hole in a boot. Today we picked up two dead beetles at the base and found one floating in the pool. I also found two live ones (now dead) in the 35gal trash can that I dropped the nasty boots I cut out yesterday. Tomorrow I will hit it again with Hydrogen Peroxide. 

[tinman10101]

sorry to see this. i know the weevil has fully infected the SD area and only anticipate it moving further up and eventually to LA.  yes merlyn is correct in recommending imadiclopid as it is a systemic and will need the palm to absorb it into its system so the larvae will die eating it.  i know some people do a routine maintenance once a year of imadiclopid as a preventative for their much larger palms.  hoping for the best.

cheers

tin

[Merlyn]

@talkjk I'd definitely do a full crown drench with Imadicloprid, especially if there are some adults and grubs burrowing in the outer frond bases.  If it's a bit too high to easily reach on the ladder with the sprayer, you can always take a solo cup and tape it to a pole. 

As a soil drench I read a recommended 0.1-0.4oz of 21% solution per inch of trunk diameter.  So if you have a 24 inch trunk base that's 2.4 to 9.6oz in a 5 gallon bucket of water.  Personally I'd go on the high side of the range.

[Palmerr]

Yeah stink usually means the inside of the palm is rotting or the heart is aka crown. I know what that smells like.. it smells terrible not like a bad smell like a sharp smell.

[Phoenikakias]

20 hours ago, Merlyn said:

@talkjk I'd definitely do a full crown drench with Imadicloprid, especially if there are some adults and grubs burrowing in the outer frond bases.  If it's a bit too high to easily reach on the ladder with the sprayer, you can always take a solo cup and tape it to a pole. 

As a soil drench I read a recommended 0.1-0.4oz of 21% solution per inch of trunk diameter.  So if you have a 24 inch trunk base that's 2.4 to 9.6oz in a 5 gallon bucket of water.  Personally I'd go on the high side of the range.

Exactly! You can attach a second pole to original one. Use is only a bit more tiring.

[Phoenikakias]

On 10/22/2024 at 3:12 AM, Merlyn said:

@talkjk that sure looks like a palm weevil.  Hopefully some CA people can chime in on treatments for SAPW.  The only ones I know of are surface treatments (maybe not effective) and systemics (effective if caught early enough). 

Surface treatments:  Organophosphates are frequently used against weevils, such as Malathion for Boll Weevils.  Acephate (partially systemic), Malathion might help as a crown drench, but I don't know if any have actually been confirmed to kill SAPW on the surface.  A drench might deter or kill additional SAPW that could fly in due to the smell of the existing wounds.

Systemic treatments:  Imadicloprid and Dinotefuran are recommended by the CA AG people.  A soil drench or trunk injection is the normal treatment, but a crown drench is also recommended to kill any nesting in the old frond boots.

Since your palm doesn't show immediate signs of collapse (leaning crown, dead new leaves, etc) I hope it has a good chance of surviving the SAPW attack! 

If you can reach the lower fronds on that ladder, I would carefully slice off the old dead boots.  You can use a utility knife (careful!) or heavy duty garden shears, etc.  You may find more weevils in the boots, or you may see the weevil holes where they've bored in.  Injecting an organophosphate or Imadicloprid directly into those holes sure would help kill them faster!

I am not sure about the causality sequence, sapw infested palm first and caused a secondary fungal infection, or latter is the initial problem and fermentation attracts the bugs. Either way double treatment is vital.