Butia leaf base color

[Ben G.]

I am used to butia palms having burgundy colored leaf bases as a general rule. In fact, we often look at leaf base color on mule palms to speculate whether a particular mule favors its butia or syagrus parent more.

I haven't been around enough butias to say that the burgundy leaf bases are a rule, or if they are just more common. Are there some butias that have have green leaf bases though?

I spotted these three potted butias (see below pics) at a local garden center. Two of the three have burgundy leaf bases. All of them had fronds that aren't super recurved either. I thought the fronds being straighter than normal was probably due to growing in more shaded conditions, but I don't know about the color.

Am I just looking at normal variations, or is it possible that one of these is perhaps a different butia species? (i.e. not odorata)

 

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, Ben G. said:

I haven't been around enough butias to say that the burgundy leaf bases are a rule, or if they are just more common. Are there some butias that have have green leaf bases though?

It wouldn't surprise me if some Butia odorata have green leaf based because they are so variable.  I believe Butia yatay typically do have green leaf bases but they are not commonly sold around here if at all.  I haven't looked for the burgundy color on Butia much but I can say that I had two large mules in February 2021.  The one with burgundy leaf bases did not survive but the one with green leaf bases did so it might have had a green based Butia in its parentage.  I seriously doubt that the mother palm was a Butia yatay but I don't know for sure.  From what I have been told the vast majority of Butia sold in Texas are odorata.

[Ben G.]

32 minutes ago, Fusca said:

It wouldn't surprise me if some Butia odorata have green leaf based because they are so variable.  I believe Butia yatay typically do have green leaf bases but they are not commonly sold around here if at all.  I haven't looked for the burgundy color on Butia much but I can say that I had two large mules in February 2021.  The one with burgundy leaf bases did not survive but the one with green leaf bases did so it might have had a green based Butia in its parentage.  I seriously doubt that the mother palm was a Butia yatay but I don't know for sure.  From what I have been told the vast majority of Butia sold in Texas are odorata.

It is my understanding also that most of the butia in cultivation are odorata. I have read online and seen some videos from Florida palm enthusiasts stating that there are other species in cultivation as well, but not intentionally.

The theory is that butia in cultivation are super variable because some of the original wild sources were not all the same species...though those that collected the seed didn't know that.

So, some now believe that we have a variety of butia species all being sold as odorata (or even still as capitata). The different species collected from seed, and their resultant hybridized offspring led to a large degree of variation in burial sold today.

Whether or not there is any truth to that, I don't know. I know there are some who believe that though.

[Ben G.]

Here was one of those sources claiming that there are multiple species in cultivation:

Again, I am not taking a strong position on this. All of the variety could be the result of interspecies hybridization, or simply intraspecies variation.

[Chester B]

I have 5 Butia odorata. Some are blue, some are green. Some have green leaf bases, purple or fig colored.  Petioles range from green, blue, or purple.  Lots of variation going on. 
 

I also have 8 Butia hybrids and they are all different too. 

[Ben G.]

2 hours ago, Chester B said:

I have 5 Butia odorata. Some are blue, some are green. Some have green leaf bases, purple or fig colored.  Petioles range from green, blue, or purple.  Lots of variation going on. 
 

I also have 8 Butia hybrids and they are all different too. 

Have you noticed any differences in their growth habits? For example, have you seen any correlation between any of these various traits like color and faster or slower growth? Or maybe correlation between colors and form (more compact or larger size?)

If there isn't any noticeable difference in growth rate, size, etc between those specimens with different colored fronds or leaf bases...I would guess these differences are simply interspecies variation. If there are connections between appearance and growth or size, that could be evidence of more than one species in cultivation.

[Chester B]

@Ben G.  I haven't had this group of Butia odorata very long to tell if there is a difference, right now I say none.  Three are in the ground and two are in pots.    The on that has been in the ground in May is growing the fastest, but that is to be expected.  All the hybrids have a lot of variation between individual plants, some of them I've had for a couple of years.

I did grow B eriospatha and B odorata at my last place for a number of years and there was zero noticeable difference in growth rate.  

Down in Florida you see those skinny small Butia often, most likely B catariensis or a portion of them are.

Here's a video I did on all my Butias last week, if you haven't already seen it.

 

[Ben G.]

11 hours ago, Chester B said:

@Ben G.  I haven't had this group of Butia odorata very long to tell if there is a difference, right now I say none.  Three are in the ground and two are in pots.    The on that has been in the ground in May is growing the fastest, but that is to be expected.  All the hybrids have a lot of variation between individual plants, some of them I've had for a couple of years.

I did grow B eriospatha and B odorata at my last place for a number of years and there was zero noticeable difference in growth rate.  

Down in Florida you see those skinny small Butia often, most likely B catariensis or a portion of them are.

Here's a video I did on all my Butias last week, if you haven't already seen it.

 

Thanks for your info. I watched your video tonight. You've got a great collection of butias and hybrids. I will be interested to see how they all progress over the years.