Cold hardy palms in western Norway, zone 8B/9A

[Palmfjord62degressnorth]

Hi

I’m new to this forum. I live in Ålesund in the western coast of Norway. Many of you probably think of polar bears, when you think of Norway. My town actually has the warmest winter climate of any Scandinavian city, and the city itself is in US hardiness zone 9a, here at 62 degrees north. My location is between 8B/9A, most years 8B, but with slightly warmer summers than in the city.  The record cold the last 30 years was -10 degrees celsius, in 2010. The record high 34,4 celsius (little inland in the city). Winter days average at about 5-6 degrees with most nights above freezing. This winter had a min of -6/7 and high of 16 degrees celsius. Summer days highs average about 19 degrees, With normal range between 15-25 degrees. The huggets this far this year is 30,6 in my garden, which is unormal and a record high for the month of May. This have made several palm entusiasts try different exotics and Trachycarpus can be cultivated without protection here. Also European fan palms, but they May struggle in harsh winters. My Chamaerops has been unprotected for 3 winters. of us have also gotten us a Jubaea chilensis, which is very difficult to get here in Norway. Anyway, here are some pictures from my garden. 

[PalmsInBaltimore]

would've never guessed a garden like that could be in Norway! Beautiful!

[TonyDFW]

We were in Alesund today. A beautiful city. My general observations of the majority of plant life looks more like a usda zone 7. I didn’t notice any widespread zone 8 plants. At 62 degrees north that is still a very mild climate for that latitude. Tomorrow we going to the northernmost botanical garden in Iceland. Good luck with your palms. Ive been struggling with mine at 32 degrees latitude in Texas.  

[redbeard917]

Nice palm choices. The view is unbeatable, too.

[Palmfjord62degressnorth]

8 hours ago, TonyDFW said:

We were in Alesund today. A beautiful city. My general observations of the majority of plant life looks more like a usda zone 7. I didn’t notice any widespread zone 8 plants. At 62 degrees north that is still a very mild climate for that latitude. Tomorrow we going to the northernmost botanical garden in Iceland. Good luck with your palms. Ive been struggling with mine at 32 degrees latitude in Texas.  

Hope you enjoy your trip to Norway 😀 Very bad and much colder wheather than normal right now, so I hope it gets her better soon on your vacation. Hasen’t been this cold and rainy since march/april. 
I think you are right, since most people here use the same plantings as always.. So there is little plantings on the edge of our zone. There is a few gardens with palms and exotics, and several with Trachycarpus that have been there for many years unprotected now. They are quite safe in this climate. A friend of mine has had two fortunei for 15+years unprotected, even through the record cold 2010 winter. One of the fortuneis is now 3,5+meters. I think many 8-9zone plants need warmer summers, so it may also be a reason why there are more zone 7 plantings. A friend is zone pushing with washintonia and canariensis, we Will se how that gode. A popular one here is monkey puzzle trees, which has grown here for 100years and are 15m tall.  They Are everywhere and love the climate. Also Eucalyptus has become more popular. 

 

[PalmsInBaltimore]

6 hours ago, Palmfjord62degressnorth said:

A popular one here is monkey puzzle trees, which has grown here for 100years and are 15m tall.  They Are everywhere and love the climate. Also Eucalyptus has become more popular. 

I love monkey puzzle trees! wish there were more in Baltimore. There's a young specimen potted currently at Druid Hill Park and one growing in the palm house of the Rawlings Conservatory there. Apparently there used to be a 30-year-old one somewhere else in the city in a private yard that was killed by drought over a decade ago. Would be nice to see more of them. Junipers and cypress and false cypress are far more common and easy to find so they tend to get planted in gardens and our arboretums. Unfortunately there's no way eucalyptus would do well outside here in the winter. 

 

[Las Palmas Norte]

1 hour ago, PalmsInBaltimore said:

Unfortunately there's no way eucalyptus would do well outside here in the winter. 

If you can find it, try Eucalyptus pauciflora ssp. debeuzevillei or ssp niphophila. These are bullet proof here and might work for you.

 

On 7/4/2024 at 3:09 PM, Palmfjord62degressnorth said:

... US hardiness zone 9a, here at 62 degrees north. ...

62° N latitude, zone 9a, Norway ? !!!. I never would have guessed. Then again, most folks would never know about our small micro-climate in Canada either. Looks good man.

[PalmsInBaltimore]

14 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

If you can find it, try Eucalyptus pauciflora ssp. debeuzevillei or ssp niphophila. These are bullet proof here and might work for you.

I'm looking at pictures of some covered in snow right now. Never heard of this type. Very interesting! Adding it to my list of plants ideas 

[VA Jeff]

I would consider trying to source juania australis seeds for your climate.  Chamaedorea species often don't require much heat to grow and some can handle down to -7 C or below.  The only trachycarpus that I think looks nice is princeps with the white backed leaves.  If you had all those palms in your yard, you might just shock your neighbors.  

 

Your jubaea is quite nice.  But real slow, unfortunately.

[ExperimentalGrower]

On 7/7/2024 at 5:13 PM, VA Jeff said:

I would consider trying to source juania australis seeds for your climate.  Chamaedorea species often don't require much heat to grow and some can handle down to -7 C or below.  The only trachycarpus that I think looks nice is princeps with the white backed leaves.  If you had all those palms in your yard, you might just shock your neighbors.  

 

Your jubaea is quite nice.  But real slow, unfortunately.

Juania australis although appreciative of the cool conditions won’t last in those low winter temps. Way too tender. They’re very difficult to find but perhaps if very well protected could act as an attractive foliage element until too big.

[hbernstein]

Congratulations. I have a feeling that in 10-20 years T. fortunei will be a terribly invasive species in central Norway. With rapid climate warming, maybe you'll be planting olives soon!🙂

[Las Palmas Norte]

22 minutes ago, hbernstein said:

... With rapid climate warming, maybe you'll be planting olives soon!

There are cold hardy Olea species suitable for that climate already.

[hbernstein]

38 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

There are cold hardy Olea species suitable for that climate already.

For sure. I meant the deliciously edible species, Olea europa.

[UK_Palms]

1 hour ago, hbernstein said:

For sure. I meant the deliciously edible species, Olea europa.

They might survive in his location, but not a chance he will be able to harvest olives where he is up at 62N. And the leaves would get defoliated most winters I could imagine. Anything below about -5C will result in a total defoliation.

It's pretty difficult to harvest Olives here in southern England even at 50-51N. Not enough warmth or sun, even if the winters are mild enough for Olive trees to grow okay. Harvesting fruit is an entirely different ball game however. You need much warmer summers.

Only in very warms years/summers like in 2022 are olives harvested over here. There wasn't any last year. Doubt there will be any this year either. I am actually thinking of digging up and binning off my Olea Europa. Not really a fan of its looks here.

[Moe Exotic]

Welcome, Your garden looks awesome! Especially that jubaea. Is that saltwater or a lake in the view? I’ve heard due to the ocean currents the water and weather are much warmer than one would expect at your latitude. Sounds like your winters are similar to what we see in coastal areas Washington state (NW US). Old man winter has been on a mean streak here for the past 4 years with lows between 12-18F on the worst of days. 20 F is typically as cold as we get in normal years. Still most of the established jubaeas have survived (some without any protection). Many have been damaged badly and a few died, but it sounds like you’ve got a good shot at a rare specimen for your area. Best of luck!

[hbernstein]

2 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

They might survive in his location, but not a chance he will be able to harvest olives where he is up at 62N. And the leaves would get defoliated most winters I could imagine. Anything below about -5C will result in a total defoliation.

It's pretty difficult to harvest Olives here in southern England even at 50-51N. Not enough warmth or sun, even if the winters are mild enough for Olive trees to grow okay. Harvesting fruit is an entirely different ball game however. You need much warmer summers.

Only in very warms years/summers like in 2022 are olives harvested over here. There wasn't any last year. Doubt there will be any this year either. I am actually thinking of digging up and binning off my Olea Europa. Not really a fan of its looks here.

I was joking, of course. Although in twenty years,  Alesund might be a zone warmer, think San Francisco with some Summer rain. 

[Southwesternsol]

Velkommen tl Palmtalk. Norge er en veldig interssant sted for palmetrær. Though I know there are a few up there, also a couple in Iceland. 

[Palmfjord62degressnorth]

On 7/10/2024 at 2:10 AM, Southwesternsol said:

Velkommen tl Palmtalk. Norge er en veldig interssant sted for palmetrær. Though I know there are a few up there, also a couple in Iceland. 

Takk 😀

Is there on Island too? That is crazy. Island don’t have very cold winters, but a lot colder highs than here both in winter and summer. 

[Palmfjord62degressnorth]

On 7/9/2024 at 7:45 PM, UK_Palms said:

They might survive in his location, but not a chance he will be able to harvest olives where he is up at 62N. And the leaves would get defoliated most winters I could imagine. Anything below about -5C will result in a total defoliation.

It's pretty difficult to harvest Olives here in southern England even at 50-51N. Not enough warmth or sun, even if the winters are mild enough for Olive trees to grow okay. Harvesting fruit is an entirely different ball game however. You need much warmer summers.

Only in very warms years/summers like in 2022 are olives harvested over here. There wasn't any last year. Doubt there will be any this year either. I am actually thinking of digging up and binning off my Olea Europa. Not really a fan of its looks here.

Actually I have two olive trees outside all year without protection, in large POTs under half roofs during winter. And last year olives ripened, on one of them. They are totally fine, and a friend had them planted in the ground, without problems. He lives Even further towards the atlantic and the gulf stream, so his worst winter low each winter is almost never under -5. Although he has lower highs in summer. You can see his Instagram account (Palmekysten). 
 

The pictures are of my olive tree who exeperienced -7 as the ultimate low this winter (one your). Pictures are from May or early June this year. If you look closely, you can see olives. These were green until september/october last year. Summers here are slightly warmer than Ålesund itself (a few km into the fjords, but winters almost the same). In the city there has grown two olive trees for many years in pots, although it rarely drops under -4 in the city Even on the coldest night in winter.

 

[Palmfjord62degressnorth]

On 7/9/2024 at 8:12 PM, Moe Exotic said:

Welcome, Your garden looks awesome! Especially that jubaea. Is that saltwater or a lake in the view? I’ve heard due to the ocean currents the water and weather are much warmer than one would expect at your latitude. Sounds like your winters are similar to what we see in coastal areas Washington state (NW US). Old man winter has been on a mean streak here for the past 4 years with lows between 12-18F on the worst of days. 20 F is typically as cold as we get in normal years. Still most of the established jubaeas have survived (some without any protection). Many have been damaged badly and a few died, but it sounds like you’ve got a good shot at a rare specimen for your area. Best of luck!

Thanks 😀 I hope they Will do okay. There are also two more Jubaeas here at the same size. Planted in two of my friends gardens ( Instagram accounts Palmekysten and Norwaypalmtrees). Both planted this year. I think our climate resembles Seattle and Vancouver, but with more summerrain and a few degrees colder summer averages. We have very similar temperatures to Tofino in southwestern Canada. Winter is not to different, but lows here are not that cold. -10 celsius is the record in the city. Since 2010, I have never seen -10 here myself.

[Palmfjord62degressnorth]

On 7/6/2024 at 5:57 PM, PalmsInBaltimore said:

I love monkey puzzle trees! wish there were more in Baltimore. There's a young specimen potted currently at Druid Hill Park and one growing in the palm house of the Rawlings Conservatory there. Apparently there used to be a 30-year-old one somewhere else in the city in a private yard that was killed by drought over a decade ago. Would be nice to see more of them. Junipers and cypress and false cypress are far more common and easy to find so they tend to get planted in gardens and our arboretums. Unfortunately there's no way eucalyptus would do well outside here in the winter. 

 

They are beautiful😀 hope there Will be more of them there in the future. Here you can see atleast 20 large ones per square km. Probably every 10 garden has one. 

[Palmfjord62degressnorth]

On 7/9/2024 at 5:03 PM, hbernstein said:

Congratulations. I have a feeling that in 10-20 years T. fortunei will be a terribly invasive species in central Norway. With rapid climate warming, maybe you'll be planting olives soon!🙂

On 7/9/2024 at 5:03 PM, hbernstein said:

Congratulations. I have a feeling that in 10-20 years T. fortunei will be a terribly invasive species in central Norway. With rapid climate warming, maybe you'll be planting olives soon!🙂

I hope you are partly right 😉 Even though you were joking. There is several unprotected Trachycarpus in my town, who has been there for many years. Possible from Stavanger to Ålesund in the south of Norway, on the western part close to the coast. 
Very similar climate to much of northern britain, slightly to the south of us. Here is a fortunei from my friends garden, unprotected for 15 years, Even through the 2010 winter. 
Flowering in May.

 

 

[Southwesternsol]

10 hours ago, Palmfjord62degressnorth said:

Takk 😀

Is there on Island too? That is crazy. Island don’t have very cold winters, but a lot colder highs than here both in winter and summer. 

There's a few Trachycarpus in Reykjavík

[peachy]

On 7/7/2024 at 1:57 AM, PalmsInBaltimore said:

I love monkey puzzle trees! wish there were more in Baltimore. There's a young specimen potted currently at Druid Hill Park and one growing in the palm house of the Rawlings Conservatory there. Apparently there used to be a 30-year-old one somewhere else in the city in a private yard that was killed by drought over a decade ago. Would be nice to see more of them. Junipers and cypress and false cypress are far more common and easy to find so they tend to get planted in gardens and our arboretums. Unfortunately there's no way eucalyptus would do well outside here in the winter. 

 

I love monkey puzzle too but they are impossible to find here. Don't give up on Eucalypts, Australia has a large Alpine region, with many ski resorts and protected parks above the snowline where 'snow gums' are plentiful.  I have also seen Dicksonia tree ferns alive and well while covered in ice and snow. Tasmania also has eucalypt species that live above the snowline.

Peachy

[RFun]

I'm impressed, considering the lack of heat factor.