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Pseudophoenix sargentii


TampaBayRay

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That’s a beauty and a bumper crop.   Definitely a faster growing subtype. 

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I didn't hafta crack em last time I germinated em but it may help eh

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I have fresh seeds of this species but was impatient, knowing how slow this palm can be, so I went ahead and got a small Pseudophoenix sargentii online.
Delivered yesterday, I am pleased with what came: the palm was potted in a 6-in container. Never an inexpensive palm but price incl. free shipping. I think I'll keep it potted and overwinter it indoors for a few years.

Pseudophoenix_sargentii.png

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  • 3 months later...

Im on it. These are poppin like pop corns

IMG_1214.jpeg

IMG_1215.jpeg

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Community Pot bound.  They were germinated in straight coco coir & perlite

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3 hours ago, TampaBayRay said:

Im on it. These are poppin like pop corns

IMG_1214.jpeg

Can you detail how you germinated these and how long they took to pop under what conditions?  There are a few seed producers around here that I’d like to give a try.  

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GoodMorning   I use a 50/50 mix of straight coco coir and perlite.  CoCoCoir blocks and bags of unfert’d perlite can be bought at your local indoor gardening shop.  I use clean seeds that ill air dry for a day or two to make sure the excess fruits off to prevent mold and fungal isssues later.   Then into a disposable food storage box and wait…

Germination requires no light, no water, no o2 so i just put em in garage and check on em once in awhile.  If i notice humidity buildup in the container ill open it up to air it out until dry

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You got great results. Did you remove the shell?

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I guess it doesn’t matter then. I removed the shells and threw them in coco coir outside. They look about the same as yours.

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On 6/16/2024 at 12:42 PM, TampaBayRay said:

Im on it. These are poppin like pop corns

IMG_1214.jpeg

IMG_1215.jpeg

 

On 6/17/2024 at 3:56 PM, Johnny Palmseed said:

I removed the shells and threw them in coco coir outside. They look about the same as yours.

On 2/24/2024 at 12:22 PM, Hillizard said:

I have fresh seeds of this species but was impatient, knowing how slow this palm can be, so I went ahead and got a small Pseudophoenix sargentii online.
Delivered yesterday, I am pleased with what came: the palm was potted in a 6-in container. Never an inexpensive palm but price incl. free shipping. I think I'll keep it potted and overwinter it indoors for a few years.

Pseudophoenix_sargentii.png

You guys growing these from seed have my condolences!😄Definitely a long term project to get a decent size saleable plant; but somebody's got to do it.

I've grown several batches of these over the last 30 years, and can vouch for their slow growth, until a trunk is formed. Picture shows the last 2 plants I have from a batch I started 5 years ago! Granted,these are the runts from the batch as the biggest and best plants always sell out first,but it gives you some ideas of what you're up against. These were grown totally under Arizona desert conditions, so hopefully yours grow a little quicker under more consistent conditions of temperature and humidity. :greenthumb: 

 

aztropic 

Mesa,Arizona

IMG_20240618_163214949_HDR.jpg

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Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

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Aztropic, I just planted a "Pseudophoenix sargentii". I live in the low desert near Palm Springs, CA. Very excited about it! a little nervous about the rot they say can hit this species. I am hoping our arid environment helps with that issue! I also ordered a "Pseudophoenix vinifera" because I am a glutton for punishment I suppose "shrug", we have similar environments so I am anxious to see what happens!

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44 minutes ago, LowDesertBoil said:

Aztropic, I just planted a "Pseudophoenix sargentii". I live in the low desert near Palm Springs, CA. Very excited about it! a little nervous about the rot they say can hit this species. I am hoping our arid environment helps with that issue! I also ordered a "Pseudophoenix vinifera" because I am a glutton for punishment I suppose "shrug", we have similar environments so I am anxious to see what happens!

You should be very happy with the species. I've been growing them from seed for about 30 years now,and have had them planted in ground for the last 25 years. Our dry air seems to keep that pseudophoenix decline from ever happening,as I have never had it on any of my trees. I think I have about 20 sargentii of various sizes planted throughout my yard.

Vinifera definitely is not as easy a grow as sargentii in the desert. They did ok from seed to about 2 feet tall in 1 gallon pots, but none lasted more than 3 years once planted out in the ground for me. I ended up importing a 15 gallon specimen from Florida about 15 years ago that has grown to have about a foot wide trunk, but even so,I wouldn't really say that it thrives here as the fronds always seem to get burned from our extreme hot and cold events. Stick with the sargentii for it's ease of growth in the desert,and you'll be a happy camper!😁 

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

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Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

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I am very inclined to agree with you, Scott, on the idea that the dry air must be protective against that nasty decline syndrome. I saw it at least twice when I was living in the Keys, it is not pretty. But I also saw something similar that killed some Hyophorbe verschaffeltii on our street after Irma devastated the island (I've never seen it other than that). There were so many elements to that storm, it's hard to even speculate on what caused the damage. But my Pseudophoenix got through the ocean inundation there and 160+mph wind gusts just fine. They got killed when the crews were removing dead/fallen trees around them (crownshafts got hit by ropes or falling limbs...they snap off SO easily!). Other than that they are such a strong and resilient palm, the only negative is that you must have patience!

I have a P. sargentii I've been growing here in Rancho Mirage for a few years (still in a pot at present), as well as seedlings of P. vinifera from Floribunda, which have rooted into the ground (sigh) but look healthy and have now produced their first pinnate leaves...but your comments on a youthful collapse have me a bit concerned about disturbing the roots to shift them up. So far all I can say is that mine have had no issues. I also purchased a couple of P. sargentii v. navassana a month or so ago and potted them up in 3gal pots, and they seem completely happy after moving from humid Miami to the 113F crispy-dry heat-wave we had over the last week, with full sun through mid-day. It really is a great genus of palms for the desert. I'm hoping the navassana will actually put on some height (i.e., faster than the typical form) and am trying to find just the right spot for them, perhaps in dappled shade to encourage the upward stretch. But I will join you in recommending them to anyone living in the low desert. I can't believe you've been growing these at your place for a quarter century! Your long-term success with them (not to mention all the other almost unbelievable species you have cultivated into beautiful specimens) is certainly inspiring.

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Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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Aztropic, thank you for the advice! Like Mnorell the news regarding "Vinifera" does not fill me with hope, especially since the news comes from a seasoned grower such as yourself! Fingers crossed I ordered a "fighter" that does not want to be taken out by the elements haha. I have a few different palms I am trying so I am sure I will have some that throw me a peace sign and check out quick when the 120's start creeping in during July and August! The palm trees I am attempting to grow are;

1. Latania lontaroides    

2. Latania lontaroides   

3. Dypsis decaryi           

4.  Brahea armata          

5. Brahea decumbens

6. Chamaerops humilis (blue version as well)

7. Dypsis Lutescens

8. Wodyetia bifurcata

9. Silver Saw Palmetto 

10. Phoenix roebelenii

11. Bizmarckia Nobilis

12. Roystonea regia 

13. X Butiagrus nabonnandii

14. Trachycarpus fortune, (hopes are not high for this one)

15. Brahea calcarea

Plus the two mentioned earlier! we will see how it all turns out, plus I have quite a few aloe trees I am growing. It is always fun talking to people who understand "low desert growing" thanks for the advice on Vinifera, we will see how it all turns out.

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12 hours ago, aztropic said:

 

You guys growing these from seed have my condolences!😄Definitely a long term project to get a decent size saleable plant; but somebody's got to do it.

I've grown several batches of these over the last 30 years, and can vouch for their slow growth, until a trunk is formed. Picture shows the last 2 plants I have from a batch I started 5 years ago! Granted,these are the runts from the batch as the biggest and best plants always sell out first,but it gives you some ideas of what you're up against. These were grown totally under Arizona desert conditions, so hopefully yours grow a little quicker under more consistent conditions of temperature and humidity. :greenthumb: 

 

aztropic 

Mesa,Arizona

IMG_20240618_163214949_HDR.jpg

Yeah I doubt I will live to see any of these become adults. I’m doing it more or less just to do it. The mother plant is in somewhat of a decline and I’m going to try to just get a couple seedlings to replace it. My previous attempts have had poor germination results and the only seedling I got to about 6” tall just stopped growing and died after a few months of no growth. I have no idea what happened there.

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8 hours ago, LowDesertBoil said:

Aztropic, thank you for the advice! Like Mnorell the news regarding "Vinifera" does not fill me with hope, especially since the news comes from a seasoned grower such as yourself! Fingers crossed I ordered a "fighter" that does not want to be taken out by the elements haha. I have a few different palms I am trying so I am sure I will have some that throw me a peace sign and check out quick when the 120's start creeping in during July and August! The palm trees I am attempting to grow are;

1. Latania lontaroides    

2. Latania lontaroides   

3. Dypsis decaryi           

4.  Brahea armata          

5. Brahea decumbens

6. Chamaerops humilis (blue version as well)

7. Dypsis Lutescens

8. Wodyetia bifurcata

9. Silver Saw Palmetto 

10. Phoenix roebelenii

11. Bizmarckia Nobilis

12. Roystonea regia 

13. X Butiagrus nabonnandii

14. Trachycarpus fortune, (hopes are not high for this one)

15. Brahea calcarea

Plus the two mentioned earlier! we will see how it all turns out, plus I have quite a few aloe trees I am growing. It is always fun talking to people who understand "low desert growing" thanks for the advice on Vinifera, we will see how it all turns out.

You've almost copied my yard exactly! Everything except windmill and lutescens should thrive. You've definitely done your homework,and now it's just a matter of time till things get to the size that will impress. If you have any room left,a few other tried and true fan palm species I've had great luck with are the Copernicia and Coccothrinax, Hemithrinax,and Thrinax species.😄 

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

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Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

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9 hours ago, mnorell said:

 I'm hoping the navassana will actually put on some height (i.e., faster than the typical form) 

Here's a picture comparing the two varieties that I took at Leonel Mera's farm in the Dominican Republic. He purposely planted the 2 (same size seedlings) next to each other to be able to show everyone the difference in the speed of growth between the two. I have examples of both growing in my Arizona garden. Both species,after trunking, seem to produce about 3 new fronds per year for me. The difference is in the spacing between growth rings,with navassana gaining height about twice as fast.:greenthumb: 

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

IMG_20200213_143301743.jpg

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Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

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24 minutes ago, aztropic said:

Here's a picture comparing the two varieties that I took at Leonel Mera's farm in the Dominican Republic. He purposely planted the 2 (same size seedlings) next to each other to be able to show everyone the difference in the speed of growth between the two. I have examples of both growing in my Arizona garden. Both species,after trunking, seem to produce about 3 new fronds per year for me. The difference is in the spacing between growth rings,with navassana gaining height about twice as fast.:greenthumb: 

That's a great comparison shot, Scott. A good reason for anyone middle-aged or older to seek out the navassana for planting! I'm also seeing the navassana's greenish trunk (rather than white-greyish on the typical form), does yours maintain this difference in your garden, Scott? Perhaps this is the result of self-shading in the duo pictured, but I've noticed it before in other photos. It's one reason I thought of planting it in a slightly shaded area, to encourage that coloration (also the stretch) rather than let the desert sun bleach the trunk. I feel like navassana could be an interesting palm for groving, although the cost of these is not trifling...

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Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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Here's 3 different of my navassana palm trunks to compare. They all seem to receive a good amount of shade nowadays due to other palms growing up around them. Unfortunately,there are unscrupulous sellers that don't really know the provenance of their palms,and will sell you whatever you 'ask' for. Unfortunately,the only way to know what you really have is to grow it out... 🤷‍♂️ 

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

IMG_20240619_085708961_HDR.jpg

IMG_20240619_085832043.jpg

IMG_20240619_090010026.jpg

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Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

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Beauteous things! I love that limey green. I really hope the "v. navassana" specimens I bought recently are actually the advertised form. I may ask the seller if they are confident this is the real deal. Listings suddenly popped up from two vendors and it makes me think that a wholesaler somewhere in SoFla could have germinated and grew out a bunch of these and thus they hit the market at once. PlantAnt shows this form available only in larger sizes, from Sherwood Forest Nursery...not that PlantAnt is comprehensive, but I also don't find navassana on the availability list at Redland Nursery, nor any other major place I can think of with an online availability listing. But you never know, there are a lot of growers occasionally playing with unusual things. But I'm not aware of any visual clues one might use in examining young plants, so the veracity will come (or not) a few years down the line, I suppose.

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Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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I am a compulsive researcher! I do not do anything new without getting info on it. Then apply that info with some good old-fashioned common sense and VOILA! (I hopefully have trees that live) :).  I don't know why I got the windmill palm.. it was cheap and I said eh, why not. I will say the "Lutescens" It will be more in the shade of a pergola and some fruit trees growing next door. I saw a post on Palm Talk where a guy's neighbor has a huge one growing in the front yard and he lives in Rancho Mirage! That's like 25 minutes from me. I decided to give that a shot and hope it turns out that well for me.  "Copernicia and Coccothrinax, Hemithrinax, and Thrinax species" I will research I have a couple more spaces opening up. My yard is not insanely large but I am very "handy" so I am making more areas where I can place the trees. I am trying to get a lot of different exotic varieties (my significant other jokes this site is full of rebels, if we hear we can't grow it we say watch me. haha). I have really found a love for the green trunk palms. My area can be very high winds so it can be rough on palms. I like to joke we in this desert have created a new Mexican Fan Palm called "the 20-degree palm simply cause most of the palms have an angle from the consistent wind pushing on them. Thank you again for the knowledge!

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Aztropic, one other thing. I just realized one of your recommendations I really want is "Coccothrinax, Thatch Palm 'Azul", I have heard this will lose it's color if you do not have a high metal content in the soil "serpentine soils". Correct me if I am wrong. Is there truth to this and if so what's the solution, head to the local recycling yard and buy some scrap metal and dump it in the dirt?

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I have one of those! It's actually a fast growing,small stature Coccothrinax, and they do fantastic under our conditions. The bottoms of the fronds are always a heavy silver color,and the tops range from a dark green to bluish color. The serpentine soil where they are native may help with the bluer color,but is absolutely not required to grow a perfect example otherwise. Another name for it is Coccothrinax macroglossa. The 'azul'  moniker could be added to larger 'hand picked' individuals that exhibit a bluer color. 

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

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Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

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18 hours ago, LowDesertBoil said:

Aztropic, one other thing. I just realized one of your recommendations I really want is "Coccothrinax, Thatch Palm 'Azul", 

Here's a crown shot of mine for consideration. Best I can do as there is already 15 feet of wood to this tree.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

IMG_20240620_094030491.jpg

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Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

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On 6/19/2024 at 3:13 PM, LowDesertBoil said:

I am a compulsive researcher! I do not do anything new without getting info on it. Then apply that info with some good old-fashioned common sense and VOILA! (I hopefully have trees that live) :).  I don't know why I got the windmill palm.. it was cheap and I said eh, why not. I will say the "Lutescens" It will be more in the shade of a pergola and some fruit trees growing next door. I saw a post on Palm Talk where a guy's neighbor has a huge one growing in the front yard and he lives in Rancho Mirage! That's like 25 minutes from me. I decided to give that a shot and hope it turns out that well for me.  "Copernicia and Coccothrinax, Hemithrinax, and Thrinax species" I will research I have a couple more spaces opening up. My yard is not insanely large but I am very "handy" so I am making more areas where I can place the trees. I am trying to get a lot of different exotic varieties (my significant other jokes this site is full of rebels, if we hear we can't grow it we say watch me. haha). I have really found a love for the green trunk palms. My area can be very high winds so it can be rough on palms. I like to joke we in this desert have created a new Mexican Fan Palm called "the 20-degree palm simply cause most of the palms have an angle from the consistent wind pushing on them. Thank you again for the knowledge!

Jeremy--

I think you may be referring to a post of mine showing a nice, beefy Chrysalidocarpus lutescens growing a couple of blocks from me. You can certainly grow it here in the Coachella Valley. But they are going to look their best with shade from noon onward, or open, shifting or dappled shade through most of the day. But overly shaded specimens or those in poor, thin soils have a tendency to look wiry with sparse crowns. There is a sweet spot and you may just have to experiment with it. But you will want good, rich soil, fertilization with a palm-specific fertilizer, and rather even watering (generous until established) with lots of mulch around the root zone. This palm also will thrive if you pick apart any nursery-grown specimens (usually planted 50 to a pot!) and convert into a bunch of singles to grow up, this will get you a nice, healthy and robust palm that isn't spending its time fighting with its neighbors for dominance. If you are impatient and don't want to start with tiny individuals, you may find larger specimens available outside of the valley, I believe the closest place you will find this and many more unusual species is Palm Plantation in Riverside. They have a website you can browse to see the many species they grow. And of course there are quite a few nurseries (often run by PalmTalk/IPS members) in San Diego County.

I'm getting the impression from your note above that you are in the more open wind-zone closer to the I-10, and this presents a few more problems of which I assume you are aware...but planting a good shelter-belt on the west side of your property should be a good beginning, perhaps you have done this already. And make sure any pergolas or other overhangs are quite high, this becomes a moderately tall palm with time.
 

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Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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Mnorell, yes I live right off date palm area. we get North End desert hurricanes 😄. I am fortunate enough to have neighbors who have ficus and fruit trees that offer good shields. It does get hairy at times though... The pergola is larger; however, it's spaced off where I will be planting the palm so it gets a decent amount of sun 4-5 hours I would say. Thats a great idea about breaking it apart I have done that with other species (not palm), yet.. 🤨.  I also do not mind starting out small. I feel over time it may help the palm further acclimate. I could be way off base on that thought though! I didn't realize that was your post! I was shocked at how big that was. Have you spoken to them about how old that specimen is?

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