Sabal Sanctuary in East Texas

[Sabal King]

So I wanted to document the official start of the Sabal sanctuary here at our homestead in ETX.  We are officially per the USDA zones (8b, with 9a just a county and a half away), but I don't trust any of these and put us at a solid 8a with 8b characteristics.  For example, it still gets cold here (not as cold as DFW) but very little ice, and the freeze durations are much shorter.  All in all, it's a great place to grow some Sabals.

I'm dedicating a roughly 6.5 acre area at the back of our homestead which sits on the other side of a branch that is spring fed and flows most of the year (either above ground, or always below ground).  While doing some exploring here in May I found a native stand of Sabal minors (just a guess) and there are a few parents plants out there, with tons of seedlings around them, but they appear to be in groups.  I picked a group I have visited many times, documented, and noticed a reasonably nice clearing around.  My plan for the future (it's a long long term plan) is every time I come to bring a handful of seedlings with me, and plant them around this native stand.  When I do that, i'll clean the dead limbs, remove the invasive bamboo, and in general try to spruce the place up a bit and the hope is eventually, I will tame the entire thing with Sabals.

This weekend, I brought my first couple of seedlings, and got them in the ground by this native stand.  I brought and planted

3x Sabal birmingham

1x Sabal blackburniana

1x Washingtonia filifera

1x Sabal mexicana

Next time I am already planning to bring

Sabal causiarum, Sabal palmetto x causiarum, palmetto, brazoriensis, louisianas, and much more..

I had some others to put in the ground, but unfortunately the minute I finished, it started down pouring and we are in the process of getting about 1-2" of rain.  Great timing!  I plan on doing nothing special to the soil, no amendments, compost, nothing.  The dirt here is sandy loam as could be, with the natural springs and water table right under their feet and not deep at all... First video and pictures below.. Hope you'll follow along, and welcome any thoughts or comments!

https://youtu.be/jYiH5GaaT0M

[Swolte]

*Following*

Amazing potential! Sabal sanctuary has a nice ring to it too. That'll keep you busy for life! 

Are you planning a nice drone overview of the Sabal sanctuary part of the property? 

[PalmatierMeg]

Kudos to you for your dedication and long term plan to preserving these fantastic palms. When I first joined PT 15 years ago some PTers fell over one another denouncing the Sabal genus and wanted them destroyed wherever they grew. The same hostile attitude was directed at saw palmettos when I visited FL back in the 80s. I'm so glad we have a cohort of cold hardy palm lovers who see the value in this genus.

[Sabal King]

2 hours ago, Swolte said:

*Following*

Amazing potential! Sabal sanctuary has a nice ring to it too. That'll keep you busy for life! 

Are you planning a nice drone overview of the Sabal sanctuary part of the property? 

Thanks!  I do actually have some drone footage of the whole place, but right now, outside of my meadow, it's very much East Texas... pines, and dense forest.  As you can see in the video I posted, it needs a LOT of clearing... not being touched in 25-30 yrs has taken a toll and there is so much downed tree limbs,  trees, invasive bamboo, all sorts of stuff.  My plan is to just start moving stuff to burn piles, and slowly just start burning it.  I will update the thread over time, and I promise you, it will change.. maybe not as fast as I want, but the task is a big one.  I have to haul everything down there by hand, and it's a 15 minute walk back and forth.  I need to get a side by side to at least get me to the branch.  Walking with all of these things is not fun!!  Stay tuned though .   Appreciate the support!

One thought I had was to let the loggers clear, or thin the heck out of this side (that was out of my plan originally) and then mark off the areas that have Sabals and I can hand clear those areas.  I may veery well do that as it will allow me to have more of a blank canvas.  It's a LOT of work, debris, and just 30 yrs of natural neglect.

42 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Kudos to you for your dedication and long term plan to preserving these fantastic palms. When I first joined PT 15 years ago some PTers fell over one another denouncing the Sabal genus and wanted them destroyed wherever they grew. The same hostile attitude was directed at saw palmettos when I visited FL back in the 80s. I'm so glad we have a cohort of cold hardy palm lovers who see the value in this genus.

Thank you.  I have been a fan of Sabals from day one, and was inspired by your large variety.  Now granted I can't grow them all that you can, nor will they always look as amazing as zone 10a, BUT I will give it the old college try!  We are a zone better than DFW and without the ice and prolonged freezes so the things I am able to sustain here are certainly much greater.  I'd love to know what the branch and all of that water, not to mention it being one of the lower spots on the property does for the temperature during cold events.

Sabals are such an under appreciated genus with such variety that one can fill up their entire yard with just types of minors.  Now when we clear out some of the pines around the cabin, I have a private collection of Sabals I have been holding onto as well as some Phoenix species that will come here as well.  Those will be close to the cabin and easy to monitor.  Who knows, maybe our sanctuary will someday be a destination for palm nuts lol

Any seed you want preserved, feel free to send them and I will germinate them, plant them, and throw a little sign denoting who donated them  

[Sabal King]

I meant to attach photos, my bad!

this is how find the current Sabal sanctuary!

Sandy soil…. With a spring fed branch just 100’ or so away.

Sabal mexicana 

Sabal birmingham 

Sabal blackburniana 

 

Washingtonia filifera

 

[MarcusH]

15 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Kudos to you for your dedication and long term plan to preserving these fantastic palms. When I first joined PT 15 years ago some PTers fell over one another denouncing the Sabal genus and wanted them destroyed wherever they grew. The same hostile attitude was directed at saw palmettos when I visited FL back in the 80s. I'm so glad we have a cohort of cold hardy palm lovers who see the value in this genus.

One of the only palm in the U.S. that can handle all kinds of extreme temperatures from cold to hot inside their planting zones. And top of that they seem to look evergreen, even when temperatures get down to the low teens . In Florida no hurricane seem to have an impact on them but correct me if I'm wrong since you know more about that .  I really enjoy the looks of a group of Palmettos . Don't like when they're overpruned.  I wish San Antonio would plan Sabals in mass over here but I guess the price tag ruins the idea.  

[redbeard917]

Cool idea. I (and I'm sure others) look forward to seeing the progress.

 

MarcusH, yes I can attest firsthand that Sabals sailed through a Category 5 hurricane, with almost no losses, although some were permanently askew due to leaning over in soft soil.

[Sabal King]

As I am moving seedings back out to the garden for spring I'm already plotting what I am going to bring next time I go out there..... I'm thinking 4-6 at a time, with some cleaning, and expanding of the planting area each time.

[Dartolution]

On 2/10/2024 at 1:50 PM, Sabal King said:

Next time I am already planning to bring

Sabal causiarum, Sabal palmetto x causiarum, palmetto

@Sabal King I have blackburniana (2) courtesy of JungleMusic and @Chris Chance, Uresana (7) Courtesy of @Silas_Sancona,  Causiarum (2) courtesy of @PalmatierMeg, Palmetto x Causiarum "megatron 2" courtesy of @buffy, Sabal minor "bluestem" and minor "Emerald isle giants" from EBAY, and a palmetto courtesy of some random storm while down on the gulf coast back in 2019. 

 

Here's what I've found so far: 

Blackburniana = Cold hardy until around 12F and has spotting, This year it took 10F with freezing ice rain and had 30-40% burn otherwise its a quick grower.

Uresana = I have the very blue highland form I believe. These yearlings took 10F unprotected AND freezing rain/ice in a thin plastic bag pot sitting outside. WOW. 

Causiarum - QUICK growing, however it being a native of Puerto Rico & much of the greater Antilles it doesnt like the cold, and burns around 12ish. This year mine are defoliated after the 10F freezing rain event. HOWEVER, they did not spear pull in 3 gallon pots unprotected. Kudos to Causiarum. I believe they are 3 years old now. 

Palmetto x Causiarum - Growth is in between as expected, but tough as nails! No damage with that recent blast. 

Minor "bluestem" = I mean... do we even need to explain? lol Bulletproof. 

Minor Emerald Isle Giants = same. Beasty beasts - laughs at 10F. Freezing rain? What rain? Total honey badgers of the sabal world. 

Palmetto = It's a native, and could give 2 sh*ts about cold or ice. It also could give a rats behind about growing faster... 😒

 

 

That sandy soil will need some organic matter, but the proximity to water is in your favor!  

Langbeinite will be your best friend probably. 

[Silas_Sancona]

4 minutes ago, Dartolution said:

Uresana = I have the very blue highland form I believe. These yearlings took 10F unprotected AND  freezing rain/ice in a thin plastic bag pot sitting outside. WOW. 

Was awaiting some sort of post- winter update on yours.. I knew they'd handle cold, but,  ....That's far more impressive than i'd thought.   Freakin' awesome !!

[Dartolution]

@Silas_Sancona AGREED! I could not believe my eyes. We've just had a week in the upper 60s and low 70s with no freezing temps (False Spring) - I kept going out there and seeing if any had spear pull or discolored strap leaves. To my surprise nope. 

I up-potted them into half gallon bag liner pots at the end of the year along with 10 selected sabal minors. 

They were exposed fully to 10F and ice. Remarkable! 

[Silas_Sancona]

16 minutes ago, Dartolution said:

@Silas_Sancona AGREED! I could not believe my eyes. We've just had a week in the upper 60s and low 70s with no freezing temps (False Spring) - I kept going out there and seeing if any had spear pull or discolored strap leaves. To my surprise nope. 

I up-potted them into half gallon bag liner pots at the end of the year along with 10 selected sabal minors. 

They were exposed fully to 10F and ice. Remarkable! 

Very remarkable indeed...  Just glad i was able to get some of these into good hands..  Crossing my fingers i'll be able to get more later this year.

[Leelanau Palms]

@Dartolution , could you please share pictures?

[Sabal King]

9 hours ago, Dartolution said:

@Sabal King I have blackburniana (2) courtesy of JungleMusic and @Chris Chance, Uresana (7) Courtesy of @Silas_Sancona,  Causiarum (2) courtesy of @PalmatierMeg, Palmetto x Causiarum "megatron 2" courtesy of @buffy, Sabal minor "bluestem" and minor "Emerald isle giants" from EBAY, and a palmetto courtesy of some random storm while down on the gulf coast back in 2019. 

 

Here's what I've found so far: 

Blackburniana = Cold hardy until around 12F and has spotting, This year it took 10F with freezing ice rain and had 30-40% burn otherwise its a quick grower.

Uresana = I have the very blue highland form I believe. These yearlings took 10F unprotected AND freezing rain/ice in a thin plastic bag pot sitting outside. WOW. 

Causiarum - QUICK growing, however it being a native of Puerto Rico & much of the greater Antilles it doesnt like the cold, and burns around 12ish. This year mine are defoliated after the 10F freezing rain event. HOWEVER, they did not spear pull in 3 gallon pots unprotected. Kudos to Causiarum. I believe they are 3 years old now. 

Palmetto x Causiarum - Growth is in between as expected, but tough as nails! No damage with that recent blast. 

Minor "bluestem" = I mean... do we even need to explain? lol Bulletproof. 

Minor Emerald Isle Giants = same. Beasty beasts - laughs at 10F. Freezing rain? What rain? Total honey badgers of the sabal world. 

Palmetto = It's a native, and could give 2 sh*ts about cold or ice. It also could give a rats behind about growing faster... 😒

 

 

That sandy soil will need some organic matter, but the proximity to water is in your favor!  

Langbeinite will be your best friend probably. 

Excellent.  So I have now three blackburniana in my main property here, and been doing a LOT of digging on these with some interesting results.  The blackburniana from PDN may very well NOT be blackburniana (per them actually).  They had written some article mentioning their confidence of it being actually blackburniana is low, and I don't have the article handy but could maybe dig it up.  I've got two of those and neither burned or was phased.

The blackburniana stock I sell is actually all from chance, hence my label blackburniana "chance".  I've been working with him, and some folks who are very much seasoned Sabal researchers and based on the history of that palm (as much as we could find from where he got it from), pictures of the inflorescence, seed size, fruit size, and winter performance, it's 75% bermudana.  The seed size, fruit size, and inflorescence scream bermudana BUT the hardiness performance is off the chart NOT bermudana.  They grow VERY quick, are robust, and seedlings that were bought from me in the late spring last year, sailed through this pretty severe arctic event unprotected with barely a tip burn.  My bermudanas out in the yard, large specimens, get fried every year sub 15f.  Based on all of this, it's very confident chance has the original, real OG blackburniana.  You can feel damn good knowing you have a great palm there.  

My uresana seedling stock, and mature specimen outside is the green form, which is absolutely unphased by these cold temperatures.  It has done this now , multiple years in a row, and the seed come from the estate of the late Dr. Merill Wilcox.  They're incredible palms and I am growing as many of these as I can.  They are rockstars for DFW, and will be even better down at my ranch.

Palmetto x Causiarum is from gainsville, no further explanation there.  They are fantastic.

causiarum.. mine defoliated here this year, but will come back again like every other year.  Down at my ranch, there is a causiarum at Steve F Austin univ that grows, does NOT defoliate, and so with that, my expectation is they will do much much better at my ranch in the sanctuary.

On the compost... i plan on ammending, absolutely nothing at least for a while.  It's hard enough to hike to the sanctuary spot, cross my river, and then get there with a shovel, and a few nursery bags.  Compost, or anything substantial is a real hassle, and just out of the question for now.  I'm working on getting some logging done, bringing some $ into the property,  and then a side by side will help, quite a bit.  For now, they will be hauling on their own, and yes that beautiful cold, pure water just under their feet will fuel growth.  I wouldn't doubt that when I spend some time, clean the leaves, and debris away from these mature specimens I will start seeing some gnarly trunks popping out of the ground.

If anyone has any of these uresana silvers you speak of above for trade\purchase let me know.  I'd love to get one out there in short order and planted the next time I go out.  I really would love to see as many Sabals planted here as humanly possible.  In a few years, or a decade plus, the place will be remarkable once I am done with it.

[PalmatierMeg]

I've been thinking a lot this week. Of course, nothing is flowering yet much less producing seeds. But if you are interested I may be able to provide you more Sabal candidates for your Sanctuary later this year. I have a number of what I call Sabal minor Uber Dwarfs a few which have set seeds in the past. I would really like to preserve the genetics of these cool little palms in perpetuity.

The past few months have driven home to me how fleeting our lives are when we are older or even if we are not. If my husband and I were to pass away sooner than later I have to ponder what will happen to our 0.61 ac of tropical paradise. Our two sons don't appreciate what their nutcase of a mother has done to our property (I mean, "Palms? Really??"). Our eldest expounds on living sparse, eschewing "stuff" (a noble idea itself) and spending their time on the "experience" of travel. So I strongly suspect they will bulldoze the gardens, then subdivide the land to sell at a tidy profit. Much of our container garden may be salvageable but I fear the large trunking palms will be goners. I tell them they had a good run (yeah, I'm a nutcase).

So your offer of providing safe haven for Sabals that are or will be endangered in the wild appeals to me.

I went outdoors to take photos of some - not all - of my Sabals that have seeding potential this year. Years ago I never would have imagined that anyone would even spit on Sabals much less ensure their posterity. Good work.

Here are the candidates for future preservation.

1. Sabal miamiensis: I received 1 seedling in a cone from seeds collected by Christian Faulkner ca. 2007 Fantastic story about how developers destroyed the palm's wild habitat, leaving only a few specimens in botanical or personal gardens. I was glad to get one on my property. 

praying hands leaf

2. Sabal minor 'Blountstown Dwarf': a tiny miniature (2' tall x 3' wide) from near the Panhandle of FL. Comes true from seeds. The last photo is of my original mother palm I got from PDN circa 2010. It's stayed that size for 10+ years.

3. Sabal minor 'Italian Dwarf' (nee etonia) from seeds sent from Italy ca. 2009: Years ago a kind PTer from Italy sent me seeds of what he said was Sabal etonia so I could grow all FL native palms in my yard. This is it 15 years later. It flowers and puts out small crops of seeds (fewer than 100). Years later I queried PT on what they thought this odd little palm might be. Consensus was it is a Sabal minor. Other than Italy I have no idea where this palm originated. And my Italian benefactor has long since disappeared into the mists of time and cyberspace. It is a happy, trouble free little Sabal.

4. Sabal miamiensis x mexicana(?) hybrid Leu Garden from a seed collected in 2015: This spectacular fast growing palm should be widely grown. I've seen no other Sabal like it. A PTer who works at Leu speculated it might be a hybrid with a nearby Sabal mexicana. See below:

a. It has the largest seeds of any Sabal I've ever seen, much bigger than those of my pure miamiensis specimen.

b. It flowers weeks, i.e., April, before any other Sabal I've seen.

c. Its seeds ripen in Aug/Sep. All my other Sabal seeds ripen late Oct. through Nov. 

d. It grew from a seed collected June 2015 to what you see in its latest photo and has seeded for the past several years. 

5. Sabal minor 'Wakulla Dwarf': This Uber Dwarf palm originates about 70 miles SW from Blountstown down in the Big Bend area. It is approximately the same size but I find differences in their growth. Wakulla Dwarf is much less robust than Blountstown. Seed germination rate is lower and seedlings prone to die. While I have close to a dozen Blountstown offspring from my original mother palm, I have only two specimens remaining from original 3 from PDN and neither has produced surviving progeny.

6. Sabal minor 'Emerald Isle Giant': On sunny dry days this palm appears matte green. But on rainy, cloudy or foggy day it glows ghostly blue

7. Sabal minor 'Chipola Dwarf': another uber dwarf slightly larger than Blountstown & Wakulla dwarfs

[Leelanau Palms]

This thread is inspiring. Really, it is. Preservation, cooperation, generosity, curiosity, and more. Beautiful palms. Good folks. I'm glad I can follow this.

[Chris Chance]

Really cool to see this! I'm still in disbelief how cold hardy my blackburniana is compared to other Sabal species! Keep up the good work and I can't wait to see the progress! 

[Sabal King]

2 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I've been thinking a lot this week. Of course, nothing is flowering yet much less producing seeds. But if you are interested I may be able to provide you more Sabal candidates for your Sanctuary later this year. I have a number of what I call Sabal minor Uber Dwarfs a few which have set seeds in the past. I would really like to preserve the genetics of these cool little palms in perpetuity.

The past few months have driven home to me how fleeting our lives are when we are older or even if we are not. If my husband and I were to pass away sooner than later I have to ponder what will happen to our 0.61 ac of tropical paradise. Our two sons don't appreciate what their nutcase of a mother has done to our property (I mean, "Palms? Really??"). Our eldest expounds on living sparse, eschewing "stuff" (a noble idea itself) and spending their time on the "experience" of travel. So I strongly suspect they will bulldoze the gardens, then subdivide the land to sell at a tidy profit. Much of our container garden may be salvageable but I fear the large trunking palms will be goners. I tell them they had a good run (yeah, I'm a nutcase).

So your offer of providing safe haven for Sabals that are or will be endangered in the wild appeals to me.

I went outdoors to take photos of some - not all - of my Sabals that have seeding potential this year. Years ago I never would have imagined that anyone would even spit on Sabals much less ensure their posterity. Good work.

Here are the candidates for future preservation.

1. Sabal miamiensis: I received 1 seedling in a cone from seeds collected by Christian Faulkner ca. 2007 Fantastic story about how developers destroyed the palm's wild habitat, leaving only a few specimens in botanical or personal gardens. I was glad to get one on my property. 

praying hands leaf

2. Sabal minor 'Blountstown Dwarf': a tiny miniature (2' tall x 3' wide) from near the Panhandle of FL. Comes true from seeds. The last photo is of my original mother palm I got from PDN circa 2010. It's stayed that size for 10+ years.

3. Sabal minor 'Italian Dwarf' (nee etonia) from seeds sent from Italy ca. 2009: Years ago a kind PTer from Italy sent me seeds of what he said was Sabal etonia so I could grow all FL native palms in my yard. This is it 15 years later. It flowers and puts out small crops of seeds (fewer than 100). Years later I queried PT on what they thought this odd little palm might be. Consensus was it is a Sabal minor. Other than Italy I have no idea where this palm originated. And my Italian benefactor has long since disappeared into the mists of time and cyberspace. It is a happy, trouble free little Sabal.

4. Sabal miamiensis x mexicana(?) hybrid Leu Garden from a seed collected in 2015: This spectacular fast growing palm should be widely grown. I've seen no other Sabal like it. A PTer who works at Leu speculated it might be a hybrid with a nearby Sabal mexicana. See below:

a. It has the largest seeds of any Sabal I've ever seen, much bigger than those of my pure miamiensis specimen.

b. It flowers weeks, i.e., April, before any other Sabal I've seen.

c. Its seeds ripen in Aug/Sep. All my other Sabal seeds ripen late Oct. through Nov. 

d. It grew from a seed collected June 2015 to what you see in its latest photo and has seeded for the past several years. 

5. Sabal minor 'Wakulla Dwarf': This Uber Dwarf palm originates about 70 miles SW from Blountstown down in the Big Bend area. It is approximately the same size but I find differences in their growth. Wakulla Dwarf is much less robust than Blountstown. Seed germination rate is lower and seedlings prone to die. While I have close to a dozen Blountstown offspring from my original mother palm, I have only two specimens remaining from original 3 from PDN and neither has produced surviving progeny.

6. Sabal minor 'Emerald Isle Giant': On sunny dry days this palm appears matte green. But on rainy, cloudy or foggy day it glows ghostly blue

7. Sabal minor 'Chipola Dwarf': another uber dwarf slightly larger than Blountstown & Wakulla dwarfs

Soliciting seeds or seedlings was not my objective but I am humbled by the sentiment of everyone here.  This property is ours and is going nowhere and honestly this is going to be a permanent 8b sanctuary.  I really am a big fan of Sabals and per my username here, am thrilled to have a spot to protect them long term.  I have a LOT of cleaning up to you and will gladly put peoples names on a plaque highlighting who donated what.

you have some great examples there and I am happy to provide some germinated seeds a home.  I initially just wanted to make a big Sabal planting but now your post has me thinking.  I probably want to have 2-3 of each and I have the room to do more as we go on.

this has gone from just a painting of my own, to something I think could be much more..  thanks for your encouragement Meg, I am humbled.

anyone who wants something protected or to go to a good home, please feel free to reach out to me, both seeds and seedlings.  I’m humbled by everyone’s comments here.

[Dartolution]

13 hours ago, Sabal King said:

The blackburniana from PDN may very well NOT be blackburniana (per them actually). 

@Sabal King Oh I've thought that since they released it. It flowers like a minor. Definitely not blackburniana. 

13 hours ago, Sabal King said:

The blackburniana stock I sell is actually all from chance, hence my label blackburniana "chance".  I've been working with him, and some folks who are very much seasoned Sabal researchers and based on the history of that palm (as much as we could find from where he got it from), pictures of the inflorescence, seed size, fruit size, and winter performance, it's 75% bermudana. 

@Sabal King That's interesting to read. Also suspected this. It has that classic "brightening" where the hastula meets the petiole of bermudana. 

The "blackburniana" I got from Phil is in the landscape and is what got damaged severely in Dec 22'. This year it has 20-40% leaf burn.

The blackburniana I got from Chance I grew from seed and it has mild spotting on the leaves, but otherwise fine. No spear pull and still good color. 

I need to up-pot several this spring into more appropriate containers. I acquired all of these sabal seeds to germinate, and grow out to eventually plant at a more permanent property. For now, they remain in containers. 

 

I'll get some images of the little Uresana's as soon as possible. They aren't much to look at still only being a year old. But tough little buggers! 

 

 

[Sabal King]

If anyone has ideas, on what I can do in this sanctuary, just shout them out, I am all ears.  Like I said, initially I was just bringing one specimen of each to get things moving, but as time goes on I feel like having a few of each makes sense.  I certainly have the space.. space is NOT a problem.  Our family has no other plans for this nearly 7 acre area.

- Multiples of each species.  This is just obvious.  Anything doesn't make it, then having backups makes obvious sense.  Plus, more Sabals, the better.

- Proper labeling.  This is going to be key.  Right now, they are color coded just as I label my seedlings in inventory, but a great friend is helping with some metal labels that should stand the test of time.

- Clean it up.  It's really dense in most spots, and some places I can't make a straight line lol... It's nearly 30 yrs of post logging, and nature taking it's course.  The place is reclaimed, minus this clearing, and a few other small clearings where some things exist.  I'm debating now that I know where the Sabal minors are populated, to just rope off that area, with some additional buffer zone and have the loggers come to this back side and thin it out.  I don't need it clear cut (although would be interesting as well), but to just get rid of the dead debris, fallen branches, remove larger wood, and make some big piles that could be burned and cleaned up.  Ultimately, that ash is great for the ground anyways.  I just walk through there, and feel overwhelmed at nearly seven acres of neglect, for decades.  I was leaning to never letting anyone back there to log but that was before I did more exploring and can pinpoint where the Sabals area so I feel way more confident now.

- Trail cam for the area... I need some sort of monitoring not just to satisfy my own curiosity, but good to pay attention down there.  I am so far from cell\wifi service down there as it's a near 15 minute walk to the back of my property, so none of that fancy stuff is available to me.

Would love to hear some input as I am sure that there's a lot I'm missing.  I'll continue documenting everything as we move forward on this project.  I'm sure my family is thrilled that I am picking up yet another project as we are building a cabin at this homestead, I am working on spring fed stream water to the cabin, etc, etc... lol... It always comes down to Sabals... 

[Swolte]

On 2/14/2024 at 6:30 AM, Sabal King said:

If anyone has any of these uresana silvers you speak of above for trade\purchase let me know.  I'd love to get one out there in short order and planted the next time I go out.  I really would love to see as many Sabals planted here as humanly possible.  In a few years, or a decade plus, the place will be remarkable once I am done with it.

I have an extra one that I'll give to you but, for some reason, its looking quite pitiful right now. I hope it pulls through...

Alternatively, I'll ask at JFGarden next time I am around. I also have a friend nearby who has a pretty large one. See pic (this was taken right after 11F):

[Sabal King]

4 minutes ago, Swolte said:

I have an extra one that I'll give to you but, for some reason, its looking quite pitiful right now. I hope it pulls through...

Alternatively, I'll ask at JFGarden next time I am around. I also have a friend nearby who has a pretty large one. See pic (this was taken right after 11F):

Wow!  I have the green form uresana here that will get planted very soon, but this one is incredible!  I am overwhelmed, and I can't imagine what this Sabal sanctuary looks like in five years.

[Chester B]

5 minutes ago, Swolte said:

I have an extra one that I'll give to you but, for some reason, its looking quite pitiful right now. I hope it pulls through...

Alternatively, I'll ask at JFGarden next time I am around. I also have a friend nearby who has a pretty large one. See pic (this was taken right after 11F):

This is number one on my hit list.  JF Gardens keeps having to cancel their open houses on weekends due to rain so I haven't been able to get up there.  They were on their list a few months back.  Let me know if you hear anything.  Thanks!

[Chester B]

2 minutes ago, Sabal King said:

Wow!  I have the green form uresana here that will get planted very soon, but this one is incredible!  I am overwhelmed, and I can't imagine what this Sabal sanctuary looks like in five years.

Yeah the green ones are lame compared to the ice blue form.  I had one in Oregon sourced from TCHP, so likely the seed came from the JF Gardens specimens.  The blue Highlands form is the most cold hardy.

[Sabal King]

Just now, Chester B said:

Yeah the green ones are lame compared to the ice blue form.  I had one in Oregon sourced from TCHP, so likely the seed came from the JF Gardens specimens.  The blue Highlands form is the most cold hardy.

oh i would disagree on that.  The green form is incredibly hardy seeing my last winter storm in January without even a care..  It took last winters ice, and cold without flinching either.  I've got some pictures i will post but that's for another thread.  My seeds come from the estate of the late Dr. Merrill Wilcox and I am incredibly blessed to have them.  They might not have that ice blue form, but they are not lame at all, and incredibly hardy which is great for our climate here, and beyond.

[Chester B]

All I can say is that people over the years on here have reported that the HIghlands form is the most cold hardy of the ecotypes.  It's not that the green ones or the other blue ones aren't reasonably cold hardy, but the HIghlands form has outperformed the rest.

[Sabal King]

Just now, Chester B said:

All I can say is that people over the years on here have reported that the HIghlands form is the most cold hardy of the ecotypes.  It's not that the green ones or the other blue ones aren't reasonably cold hardy, but the HIghlands form has outperformed the rest.

If I can grow them both side by that, that would be fantastic for the Sanctuary.. 

[Swolte]

My experience with the highland form thus far has been incredible. The specimen that I posted earlier went through '21 unprotected (4F here) and had no leaf damage. I have three of the highland Uru's in the ground, one from TCHP (which is my largest) and two small ones from JFGardens (advanced seedling stage). One of the small ones I left unprotected this winter (11F) and it seems to have survived well (apart from some animal nibbling it...).

I actually don't have the green one yet so I have no experience comparing hardiness. May pester @Sabal King for one! My guess is that the answer will probably depend on where you grow it. The silver, according to my understanding, is usually an adaptation to drought and intense sun. This may suggest that, especially during some very harsh Texas summers, the silver ones will likely have an edge going into winter compared to the green one. Perhaps in years with more wet and mild summers, the green one will outperform the silver. My 2 cts.

 

Edited February 15, 2024 by Swolte

[Sabal King]

1 hour ago, Swolte said:

My experience with the highland form is incredible. The specimen that I posted earlier went through '21 unprotected (4F here) and had no leaf damage. I have three of the highland uru's in the ground, one from TCHP (which is my largest) and two small ones from JFGardens (advanced seedling stage). One of those I left unprotected this winter and seems to have survived well).

I actually don't have the green one yet so no experience comparing. May pester @Sabal King for one! My guess is that the answer will probably depend on where you grow it. The silver, according to my understanding, is usually an adaptation to drought and intense sun. This may suggest that, especially during some very harsh Texas summers, the silver ones will likely have an edge going into winter compared to the green one. Perhaps in years with more wet and mild summers, the green one will outperform the silver. My 2 cts.   

 

I can attest to my green form literally being neglected, never covered and it continues to do fantastic.  I can't wait to get a couple of these in the ground out at the sanctuary.  My laundry list of what I want to plant is so long but the problem is carrying everything out to the site.  It's such a long, long, walk with a shovel, nursery bags, etc lol...

[Chester B]

19 hours ago, Sabal King said:

I can attest to my green form literally being neglected, never covered and it continues to do fantastic.  I can't wait to get a couple of these in the ground out at the sanctuary.  My laundry list of what I want to plant is so long but the problem is carrying everything out to the site.  It's such a long, long, walk with a shovel, nursery bags, etc lol...

If you have a somewhat decent path a gorilla cart with its big wheels is pretty off roady.  And if you get an atv or small tractor the handle swings to allow it to be attached the trailer hook.  Best $200 I ever spent.

 

[Sabal King]

10 minutes ago, Chester B said:

If you have a somewhat decent path a gorilla cart with its big wheels is pretty off roady.  And if you get an atv or small tractor the handle swings to allow it to be attached the trailer hook.  Best $200 I ever spent.

 

Yea that is part of the long term plan.  Long term plan is to get a side by side which I will need to build a small bridge to go over the first stream, and then, stop at the second stream and wade over the branch to the sanctuary... lol but eventually i'll fashion a bridge over there too.  The cart would help incrementally for sure, but I am aiming for larger more mechanical things once we get logging done and a few bucks in my pocket.  For now whenever I bring my boys out there, I'll just use their arms to help carry seedlings! hah.

I dream of a time when I can hop in the side by side, cruise all the way out there, and plant.  In due time..

[Meangreen94z]

John Fairey should still have a few seedlings left. You will need to ask about them on site now that Craig Jackson has left.

Also if you are in Central Texas, Pat McNeal has 15 gallon size silver green Sabal uresana that survived 2021, exposed in containers. He is asking $150 for them, but you can probably talk him down on site. His nursery is in the Bastrop area, and you’ll need to contact him in advance. He will claim he’s wholesale only but warm up once you bring up you want those. His operation is in the twilight years, not much else is left.

 

[Sabal King]

5 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

John Fairey should still have a few seedlings left. You will need to ask about them on site now that Craig Jackson has left.

Also if you are in Central Texas, Pat McNeal has 15 gallon size silver green Sabal uresana that survived 2021, exposed in containers. He is asking $150 for them, but you can probably talk him down on site. His nursery is in the Bastrop area, and you’ll need to contact him in advance. He will claim he’s wholesale only but warm up once you bring up you want those. His operation is in the twilight years, not much else is left.

 

Man I just drive by Bastrop last weekend, kinda lol…..

if anyone makes it out to JFG let me know, that’s nowhere near me.. my goal is to try every single Sabal I can get my hands on here in this sanctuary.  I’ve got plenty of room!

[Dartolution]

Here are a couple of images of the Uresana's amidst minors from yesterday. 

Sorry for the crap quality - I'll try to take some more today if the rain holds off. 

All of these just got potted up into these bag pots a few months ago. Admittingly I neglected them fairly bad this past season (which Im now kicking myself for). 

 

[Swolte]

3 hours ago, Sabal King said:

if anyone makes it out to JFG let me know, that’s nowhere near me.. my goal is to try every single Sabal I can get my hands on here in this sanctuary.

They have the budding out festival on the 16th of March which is a nice time to visit JFGardens. Craig told me yesterday he believed they should have some silver Uru's left from last year but wasn't sure. Unfortunately, isn't working there that day. On the upside, he did accept a new job at Mercer Botanical garden recently. That's closer to @Chester B, I believe, so someone's lucking out!

I haven't met the new horticulturalist yet at JFGarden!

~ S

Edited February 17, 2024 by Swolte

[Chester B]

4 minutes ago, Swolte said:

They have the budding out festival on the 16th of March which is a nice time to visit JFGardens. Craig told me yesterday he believed they should have some silver Uru's left from last year but wasn't sure. Unfortunately, isn't working there that day. On the upside, he did accept a new job at Mercer Botanical garden recently. That's closer to @Chester B, I believe, so someone's lucking out!

I haven't met the new horticulturalist yet at JFGarden!

~ S

I called JF Gardens.  They do have them, but aren't open this weekend, yet again!  That's three times I've tried to go there.  

[Meangreen94z]

57 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I called JF Gardens.  They do have them, but aren't open this weekend, yet again!  That's three times I've tried to go there.  

Unfortunately the garden is out of the way and does not get the attendance it should. When Craig Jackson was there you could coordinate a day to peruse/shop the nursery greenhouses which has inventory they don’t have out for sale on open days. I’m not sure who is in charge of the nursery now.

[Dwarf Fan]

7 hours ago, Swolte said:

They have the budding out festival on the 16th of March which is a nice time to visit JFGardens. Craig told me yesterday he believed they should have some silver Uru's left from last year but wasn't sure. Unfortunately, isn't working there that day. On the upside, he did accept a new job at Mercer Botanical garden recently. That's closer to @Chester B, I believe, so someone's lucking out!

I haven't met the new horticulturalist yet at JFGarden!

~ S

That is AWESOME so glad that Craig is moving to Mercer Botanical Garden I wish him the best and hope Mercer appreciates and utilizes his knowledge and passion for the benefit of their plants, patrons and staff. 
 

JFGarden will never be able to simply “replace” a man like Craig Jackson, I only hope they can find someone who can do justice to all the good work he put in through his years of dedication.

6 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

Unfortunately the garden is out of the way and does not get the attendance it should. When Craig Jackson was there you could coordinate a day to peruse/shop the nursery greenhouses which has inventory they don’t have out for sale on open days. I’m not sure who is in charge of the nursery now.

Indeed. He sure left some big shoes to fill, hopefully they can get someone solid over there to take on the mantle.

 

[Dwarf Fan]

@Sabal King great thread, looking forward to watching the Sabal Sanctuary species count continue to grow… and grow… and grow!

[Allen]

On 2/15/2024 at 6:43 AM, Sabal King said:

If anyone has ideas, on what I can do in this sanctuary, just shout them out, I am all ears.  Like I said, initially I was just bringing one specimen of each to get things moving, but as time goes on I feel like having a few of each makes sense.  I certainly have the space.. space is NOT a problem.  Our family has no other plans for this nearly 7 acre area.

Great idea on keeping Sabals for the future!  Not trying to rain on the parade but I worry about the time to size up in a forest setting.  With competition from trees, etc the time for the Sabals to grow is way longer than realized.  If you can clear overhead competition and the palms can get plenty of water that will help.  The below study looked at trunking time for palmetto in a FL coastal forest and found that with overhead trees, drought, etc. trunking time is 10% at 42 years,  50% at 59 years for palmetto.  (McPherson & Williams 1996 Establishment Growth of Sabal palmetto).  Palms cared for with water, fertilizer, etc have a compounding affect over time that will make them trunk in a much shorter period.   

Edited February 19, 2024 by Allen