Polar Vortex

[MarcusH]

20 minutes ago, Xenon said:

You mean the 30 years before 2021 (look at history man) 😆

Are you going to claim queens don't grow in New Orleans and Jacksonville when the cold comes for them? Queens 100% can't grow there because all of the 40 foot corpses say so lol 

 

Yep, everywhere. Go look at aerial footage of Hurricane Harvey and you'll see plenty. I've lived here all my life and always took the queens for granted, just another common palm out of the 6 or 7 palms that people plant here lol 

Not interested in posting back and forth with you Marcus. The big and beautiful queens will prove you wrong eventually 😄

I still doubt you have counted a million Queens on Google maps lol . I was there before the freeze I don't lie and I know you overdo it . We know it ! 

[Xenon]

31 minutes ago, RFun said:

Well, they still grow them in New Orleans and Jacksonville, FL.  Protection will likely need to be added once in a great while.

Same here. Like you say one freeze doesn't change anything. These pics are all from Houston proper, not the coast. The coast was littered with queens 

Edited February 28 by Xenon

[Chester B]

That's what my place is going to look like!

I do have a littoralis that is planting size and two Santa Catarinas that aren't far behind.  Will be interesting to see how they do, better than the King palm I still need to plant I'm sure.  I still have my Bismarckia that I've decided to plant in the ground this year.

To counter that I have about 60 rugged palms from the Sabal, Trachycarpus and Rhapidophyllum genera to help balance things out as well as a few Livistona, Mules and Butia Hybrids that I have a lot of confidence in.  Picked up some plain jane Sagos for next to nothing, some Confederate roses and thursday I'm getting some large red and pink Heliconias.  Apparently they are very root hardy here.  I know my resident Anoles are happy with the  added greenery.  

[RFun]

3 hours ago, Xenon said:

Same here. Like you say one freeze doesn't change anything. These pics are all from Houston proper, not the coast. The coast was littered with queens 

Yeah, I know there are some growers of them in that area.  Those are nice pics.

[Las Palmas Norte]

We had a brief Polar 2024 revisit today. Temps dropped to 36°F and wet flakes became apart of the afternoon events. No accumulation and temps are forecast to pick up Wednesday.

[Robert Cade Ross]

Find the cold front (;

[Robert Cade Ross]

3 hours ago, RFun said:

Yeah, I know there are some growers of them in that area.  Those are nice pics.

This hurts to look at knowing 99% of these are dead lol .

[Robert Cade Ross]

5 hours ago, Chester B said:

That's what my place is going to look like!

I do have a littoralis that is planting size and two Santa Catarinas that aren't far behind.  Will be interesting to see how they do, better than the King palm I still need to plant I'm sure.  I still have my Bismarckia that I've decided to plant in the ground this year.

To counter that I have about 60 rugged palms from the Sabal, Trachycarpus and Rhapidophyllum genera to help balance things out as well as a few Livistona, Mules and Butia Hybrids that I have a lot of confidence in.  Picked up some plain jane Sagos for next to nothing, some Confederate roses and thursday I'm getting some large red and pink Heliconias.  Apparently they are very root hardy here.  I know my resident Anoles are happy with the  added greenery.  

Check out some of the older varieties of tropical hibiscus they are root hardy here and almost always come back even after the 2021 freeze.

[Chester B]

5 hours ago, Cade said:

Check out some of the older varieties of tropical hibiscus they are root hardy here and almost always come back even after the 2021 freeze.

Good to know.  I'm looking at planting a few of the hardy varieties, but it actually looks like we might be too hot for them?  I'll have to look into those.  Do you have any names of the older varieties?

[Robert Cade Ross]

2 hours ago, Chester B said:

Good to know.  I'm looking at planting a few of the hardy varieties, but it actually looks like we might be too hot for them?  I'll have to look into those.  Do you have any names of the older varieties?

President red - lady liberty. I tried the hardy types a few summers ago and they didn’t do anything lol .

[Chester B]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

President red - lady liberty. I tried the hardy types a few summers ago and they didn’t do anything lol .

They didn't do anything as in they didn't flower?

[Robert Cade Ross]

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

They didn't do anything as in they didn't flower?

They started growing but suddenly stopped growing around 2’ tall and only bloomed one or two times before suddenly declining. I’ve also never seen any hardy hibiscus growing in Houston 🤷‍♂️😆

[Kenc]

20 hours ago, MarcusH said:

I still doubt you have counted a million Queens on Google maps lol . I was there before the freeze I don't lie and I know you overdo it . We know it ! 

Not literally millions, but yeah, they’re somewhat common in Houston. My friend has lived there their whole life, can confirm that! 

[Robert Cade Ross]

The Humble Tx  queen palm 2021-2022-24? Survivor looks rough haha 

[MarcusH]

21 minutes ago, Kenc said:

Not literally millions, but yeah, they’re somewhat common in Houston. My friend has lived there their whole life, can confirm that! 

I never said there were any lol but not like you would see in Central/ South Florida and SoCal.  I actually took the time yesterday and went on Google maps to virtually drive through Deer Park , Pasadena and La Porte .  Literally had to search for them. Only confirmed my statement.  

[Robert Cade Ross]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

I never said there were any lol but not like you would see in Central/ South Florida and SoCal.  I actually took the time yesterday and went on Google maps to virtually drive through Deer Park , Pasadena and La Porte .  Literally had to search for them. Only confirmed my statement.  

Did you go to pre 2018? Cause the 2018 freeze killed a lot lol . 

[MarcusH]

21 minutes ago, Cade said:

Did you go to pre 2018? Cause the 2018 freeze killed a lot lol . 

I was in Houston in September 2012 spending an entire month traveling around the Houston area. I actually took pictures that I have on Facebook and yesterday I went through some of them. I can say there were some Queens, very infrequently planted.  My whole point is that Queens weren't as common as you would see in FL and CA, doesn't even play in the same ballpark . But if we go back to the whole conversation I can say Queen palms aren't reliable palms in Houston either. Life span anywhere from a year to not more than 25 to 30 years . Not an achievement, really.  Most reliable palms in Texas are Filifera , Pindo and Sabals only. 

[thyerr01]

@Chester B Do you know which specific Heliconia you are getting?

[Xenon]

12 hours ago, MarcusH said:

I never said there were any lol but not like you would see in Central/ South Florida and SoCal.  

Of course Houston isn't comparable to Tampa or LA, those areas have milder winters overall. I don't think anyone is making such a comparison.

Houston Area in the long run is comparable to southeastern Louisiana and northeastern Florida. The winter averages, annual minimum lows, and record lows are all very similar. It's a transitional area where the traditional southern landscape (live oak, magnolia, crepe myrtle etc) gets a bit of (sub)tropical flair like queen palms, citrus, etc. 

And yes all of those areas above get long enough warm streaks where you can play around with zone 10 stuff here and there 😄

[Xenon]

On 2/27/2024 at 9:15 PM, Chester B said:

I'm getting some large red and pink Heliconias.  Apparently they are very root hardy here.  

Most Heliconia bloom on second year growth (and are cold weather wimps) so you need an average to mild winter to see bloom on the most hardy ones like H. rostrata (the one you usually see here). I heard H. latispatha will bloom in the first year and maybe H. farinosa if you can find it? 

H. psittacorum sold at the box store makes a great summer annual, very free flowering. Very cool sensitive and melts in the mid 30s though, it's probably gotta be growing under coconuts to survive winter. 

[Chester B]

10 hours ago, thyerr01 said:

@Chester B Do you know which specific Heliconia you are getting?

I don't and I'm not sure the person selling them does either, but I'll ask on pick up.

 

3 hours ago, Xenon said:

Most Heliconia bloom on second year growth (and are cold weather wimps) so you need an average to mild winter to see bloom on the most hardy ones like H. rostrata (the one you usually see here).

Yeah it was a bit of an impulse buy  I read that after the fact.  I may keep them in pots and pull them in the garage for the few cold nights a year.  I need some potted plants for the new patio we're looking to put in.

Ordered some interesting Colocasias and got a couple of more bananas (Dwarf Namwah and Dwarf Orinoco), as well as some cheapo local Sagos.

[Keys6505]

10 hours ago, Chester B said:

Ordered some interesting Colocasias and got a couple of more bananas (Dwarf Namwah and Dwarf Orinoco), as well as some cheapo local Sagos.

I have a ton of Alocasia that I've mixed up over the years, so not sure which is Odora, Calidora, Borneo King, or Borneo Giants, but I have 1 distinct plant out of the bunch that gets massive, takes a ton of sun with no issue, and it's the only one that the trunk doesnt die back in a hard freeze.  It's seen as low as 17 over the past few years  and the trunk is still a few feet tall when the other plants have to start back from the ground.  If you want a pup you are more than welcome to one.  Also, if you're looking for (almost) instant gratification, the Tree Morning Glory, Ipomoea Arborescence, does great here and will go from a 1 gal to a 12' monster covered in new flowers daily in its first year.  Handles full TX sun like a champ.

[Robert Cade Ross]

Found a nice pair of triangle palms in Alvin today at a local garden center unfortunately these two were currently labeled (Not for sale ) 

[Chester B]

1 hour ago, Keys6505 said:

I have a ton of Alocasia that I've mixed up over the years, so not sure which is Odora, Calidora, Borneo King, or Borneo Giants, but I have 1 distinct plant out of the bunch that gets massive, takes a ton of sun with no issue, and it's the only one that the trunk doesnt die back in a hard freeze.  It's seen as low as 17 over the past few years  and the trunk is still a few feet tall when the other plants have to start back from the ground.  If you want a pup you are more than welcome to one.  Also, if you're looking for (almost) instant gratification, the Tree Morning Glory, Ipomoea Arborescence, does great here and will go from a 1 gal to a 12' monster covered in new flowers daily in its first year.  Handles full TX sun like a champ.

That would be awesome!  I'll gladly take you up on that offer.  I stopped in at Lowes and they had two oversized 3 gallon Alocasia on 50% off so I had to get them I need all the filler plants I can get in the early stages of this new garden.  No real information on the tags, all they say is Alocasia California.  Looked it up and it appears to be Alocasia gageana which only grows to 4'.  Not exactly a monster.

I have not heard of that tree before.  So many new plants down here.

[Las Palmas Norte]

Wintery conditions persist. Wet snow/rain mix currently 38°F @ 09:30 March 01/24.

 

[Meangreen94z]

On 2/28/2024 at 4:44 PM, MarcusH said:

I never said there were any lol but not like you would see in Central/ South Florida and SoCal.  I actually took the time yesterday and went on Google maps to virtually drive through Deer Park , Pasadena and La Porte .  Literally had to search for them. Only confirmed my statement.  

Those are all relatively low income areas, next to refineries and chemical plants. Look at Kemah, Seabrook, Clear Lake Shores, League City, even Pearland/Friendswood. I lived in South Houston from 2007-2020.  Queens were definitely everywhere. It wasn’t until 2021 that the vast majority were killed.

[Robert Cade Ross]

7 minutes ago, Meangreen94z said:

Those are all relatively low income areas, next to refineries and chemical plants. Look at Kemah, Seabrook, Clear Lake Shores, League City, even Pearland/Friendswood. I lived in South Houston from 2007-2020.  Queens were definitely everywhere. It wasn’t until 2021 that the vast majority were killed.

Pasadena in particular is not very palmy 🤷‍♂️

[RFun]

3 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Wintery conditions persist. Wet snow/rain mix currently 38°F @ 09:30 March 01/24.

 

Been a rough Winter for that area.  Not as bad as Vancouver, of course.

Edited March 1 by RFun

[Las Palmas Norte]

2 hours ago, RFun said:

Been a rough Winter for that area.  Not as bad as Vancouver, of course.

Nearly the entire province of British Columbia is experiencing low snow pack in the mountains. This doesn't bode well for wildfire season. Some areas up in the north have been fighting phantom fires, underground burning that persists thru the winter. Snow pack levels remain below median for every river basin in the province, with 4 in every 5 weather stations reporting levels in the bottom 20% of all years since data has been collected. Bad winter could amount to a bad summer. 

 

[Harry’s Palms]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Nearly the entire province of British Columbia is experiencing low snow pack in the mountains. This doesn't bode well for wildfire season. Some areas up in the north have been fighting phantom fires, underground burning that persists thru the winter. Snow pack levels remain below median for every river basin in the province, with 4 in every 5 weather stations reporting levels in the bottom 20% of all years since data has been collected. Bad winter could amount to a bad summer. 

 

Meanwhile , up in Northern California they are getting record snow. Down here in Southern California we are getting a lot of rain. This is our second year of above average rainfall. This after record drought. My parents used to have a coastal resort in Sooke , unfortunately before I was born . It is a beautiful area , I still have relatives up there but I haven’t been since about 1976 . 

[Las Palmas Norte]

An unexpected snow fall this morning. Temps hovering in the mid 30°F's and an inch of snow landed. It's now a slush fest with temps in the mid 40°F's.

 

[Coldpalms]

I just took the cover off one of my Washingtonias today to see how it looked all around. It and all the rest survived -25 temps back In January. 

[Paradise Found]

On 2/27/2024 at 11:33 PM, Las Palmas Norte said:

We had a brief Polar 2024 revisit today. Temps dropped to 36°F and wet flakes became apart of the afternoon events. No accumulation and temps are forecast to pick up Wednesday.

Yeah it’s been in the mid 40’s here also 10 to 15 degrees below normal.   Warming trend back on the 8th.  We had snow and rain Friday but no snow on ground. Very sunny today.  

Edited March 2 by Paradise Found

[Las Palmas Norte]

8 hours ago, Coldpalms said:

... It and all the rest survived -25 temps back In January. 

You're doin' something right. Looks great.

[Las Palmas Norte]

Woke to 27°F this morning. Warming rapidly as the sun comes around.

[Paradise Found]

it was cold here too woke up to 34f. Tonight even colder 32f but out lining area could see 25f-28f.  Been one chilly March so far second half should be much warmer I am seeing 60’s in the long term forecast.  

[Robert Cade Ross]

7 hours ago, Paradise Found said:

it was cold here too woke up to 34f. Tonight even colder 32f but out lining area could see 25f-28f.  Been one chilly March so far second half should be much warmer I am seeing 60’s in the long term forecast.  

Ouch … 90° here 🌴

[Paradise Found]

18 hours ago, Cade said:

Ouch … 90° here 🌴

Yea it takes a while some springs to warm up here.  I am now seeing 70’s for mid March Thank goodness.  
Enjoy your heatwave!

Edited March 6 by Paradise Found

[_nevi]

On 2/23/2024 at 4:39 PM, Xenon said:

All of those robustas survived all of the prior freezes of the last few years, it's a shame they survived all of that and were still removed. 

The problem with Sabal palmetto is you can grow it 100, 200 miles north of Houston and everywhere else in the southeast  Nothing special or iconic about it. The iconic thing about Houston (especially this southeast area of town near NASA) is you can enter from any direction and it's the first place you start seeing skinny Washies until at least near Corpus.

Plus this was a mass planting of 50 or so VERY uniform pencil thin 110% robusta. It's a shame. 

Fully agreed regarding the removal of those washingtonia robusta in Webster, I too was dissapointed with that.

However, with sabals (both palmetto and mexicana), if their growth rates are faster in milder winters versus colder winters, then that can lead to a possible "distinguishing/special factor" in that taller/more robust specimen occur in the milder winter locale. In addition (relevant for Texas in particular), rainfall gradients exist, and any faster growth in wetter climates versus drier climates could further contribute in specimen differences.

Therefore, it's possible that the milder winter, wetter climate of Houston can lead to taller, more robust sabal specimen compared to a colder winter, drier climate somewhere inland in Texas. Which would mean that Houston has a better chance of achieving "Gainesville notoriety."

[_nevi]

On 2/26/2024 at 4:57 PM, Xenon said:

Seeing lots of queens planted last year near Bush Airport pushing green growth! The 3rd/4th coldest winter in over 30+ years can't even kill newly planted queens in "north" Houston and damage is even lighter further south to minimal/no damage by the coast.

I have a good feeling about this....in 30-40+ years Houston will surpass the 2020 look, we might even go higher for longer than the all time high point in 2009?! 🤪

Plant those queens (and royals, kings, triangles and foxtails, half kidding only) 😄

If we want to be strict like Marcus, then it would be smarter for casual plantings (low maintenance gardeners, public spaces, etc) to stick with sabals (palmetto, mexicana, etc), or anything of similar zone 8 hardiness.

Meanwhile, the tender stuff like queens should be left to the enthusiasts that can more easily handle the ups and downs.

Keep it like that for the rest of the decade, while monitoring the weather to see if it gets it's act together. If things go well by 2030, then the envelope can be pushed more in terms of reintroducing more tender stuff. This is a slow and steady monitoring approach, similar to the monitoring of cancer after treatment (i.e. patients are monitored periodically after treatment, only being declared "cured" if they remain NED for past the 5-year mark).