Best place in Australia for a palm grower?

[Brandon39.5]

Hey guys, In the future I would like to move to Australia, I have a couple of cities in my mind for example cairns, beautiful scenery and completely tropical I suppose that I could grow a lot of palm species over there. Then there is Sunshine coast that is not tropical in my understanding and I could grow a lot of stuff there too, but not as much as in cairns, I wonder if coconuts are easy to grow in sunshine coast? My goal is to open up a garden centre/ nursery for a living. I think that I shouldn't limit myself by just growing palms as a business, I could grow house plants, exotic fruit trees and more. The good thing in sunshine coast is that there is a lot of population compared to cairns, and Brisbane quite near with +2M people living I assume that there would be more demand.

For the moment this is a dream, but I'll try to make it true.

Any suggestions on where is the best place for me? I prefer the East Coast. I'm more into tropical palms, especially crown shafted palms and coconuts too.

Anyone has a nursery in Australia or even someone that lives over there, and willing to share their experience?

Thanks.

[Tyrone]

1 hour ago, Brandon39.5 said:

Hey guys, In the future I would like to move to Australia, I have a couple of cities in my mind for example cairns, beautiful scenery and completely tropical I suppose that I could grow a lot of palm species over there. Then there is Sunshine coast that is not tropical in my understanding and I could grow a lot of stuff there too, but not as much as in cairns, I wonder if coconuts are easy to grow in sunshine coast? My goal is to open up a garden centre/ nursery for a living. I think that I shouldn't limit myself by just growing palms as a business, I could grow house plants, exotic fruit trees and more. The good thing in sunshine coast is that there is a lot of population compared to cairns, and Brisbane quite near with +2M people living I assume that there would be more demand.

For the moment this is a dream, but I'll try to make it true.

Any suggestions on where is the best place for me? I prefer the East Coast. I'm more into tropical palms, especially crown shafted palms and coconuts too.

Anyone has a nursery in Australia or even someone that lives over there, and willing to share their experience?

Thanks.

I think the conclusions you’ve drawn are what I would have concluded. QLD is the place to be. The Sunshine Coast does grow coconuts well, but is warm subtropical, so you could grow a lot there of all sorts of things. Cairns is great if you want to grow the really tropical stuff and there’s still quite a big population in Cairns. It’s not a sleepy frontier town. I’d suggest checking QLD out for yourself first. The biggest problem we have in Australia at the moment is finding a place to live. We have a housing shortage for rentals and for purchase like we’ve never seen before. It’s a huge problem at the moment. The cost of living is sky rocketing but I think that is a global issue too. 

[peachy]

If you are prepared to take a step back to 1950 as far as attitudes, services, transport etc, the Qld is the place to be. The Sunshine Coast is growing daily and there are quite a few affluent areas there. It is safer than the Gold Coast too and has lovely beaches. Cairns has the very tropical climate but the beaches aren't really safe to use due to stingers, sea snakes, sharks and the good old salties. It is also a tourist town for over seas visitors and while there are quite a few nurseries there, they depend on internet sales to collectors further south. Over the last year or so central Cairns is a no go zone after dark too which has adversely affected the tourist trade. For a decent home with a good size domestic block of land around it, don't expect any change from $800,000. More with a larger block. A cheaper option would be the small coastal towns in Far North Qld, tropical climate but lower house prices.  I have found that people who move to Qld from the southern states or overseas after 12 months realise they made the mistake of their life and move back to their place of origin or they love it and think it is a paradise. Apart from a few ultra tropical species, most palms and other plants that live in Cairns, do quite well on the Sunshine Coast, or indeed any coastal town, including those just across the border in the northern Rivers area of NSW. Wherever you choose make sure you have reliable water and don't live in a flood zone. 

Hope this helps

Peachy

[happypalms]

If you like cyclones and stingers (a sort of jelly fish) and crocodiles and everything going mouldy with such high rainfall go with cairns my choice the Sunshine Coast closer to your target group for plant sales and a half decent area that’s not a million miles away like cairns but ask yourself super tropical  rare varieties or some more obtainable varieties palm seeds are not easy to get in Australia at least the super good tropical rare ones with imported seeds being harder to get a good supplier most good rare viable seeds are traded between other growers making it even harder to get good seeds or plants on the plus side choose the right varieties to grow and the world is your oyster with tropical heat and rainfall you just throw your seeds in and they grow in the tropics good luck with your venture and if you’re in the area drop in I will donate a palm to you ps start to learn Aussie slang and you can go to pub and get in shout having a schooy of new with a dogs eye and a bit of dead horse with ya new cobber mates 

[happypalms]

Also you better like Vegemite on toast and to be a true Aussie bloke have a bbq on Saturday and never work on a Sunday and understand when it’s beer o’clock peachy and Tyrone are on the money life is great in Australia 🇦🇺 but……. 

[tim_brissy_13]

A couple more considerations:

QLD is definitely the state if you want ease of growth of tropical palms. The further north you go, the faster tropicals will grow, which sounds good for business if you’re planning a nursery. But…there’s already a lot of competition in that space if you’re planning on growing house plants and relatively common tropical palms. You’ll need to compete with, and beat, not only experienced palm growers but also large scale established nurseries and growers. 
 

Melbourne and Sydney are the most populous cities and property prices are extreme. Growth of palms in general is also much slower than in QLD. This doesn’t sound like a great combination, but there’s an interesting culture where relatively uninformed people are willing to spend a lot on easy to grow, not so special plants as long as they look a bit unusual (think variegated aroids, even golden cane palms and cordylines). I doubt anyone is spending AUD$200 on a small Chrysalidocarpus lutescens in QLD where they are almost a weed, but in Melbourne they’ll sell everyday at all Bunnings (the largest Aus hardware chain). I’d say the ideal model would be something like having a large grow area in QLD (or a large controlled hothouse somewhere further south) but having access to public in the large cities. I’m sure transport costs would eat into profits however. 
 

By the way, I’m biased but I think the true gap in the market is unusual temperate palms. There’s just no growers growing things like Parajubaea, Jubaeopsis, Hedyscepe, Ceroxylon, Jubaea, Brahea, rare Butia and Syagrus etc on any kind of scale. Some people would be willing to pay for these species but unfortunately there’s probably not a huge market. I’ve got about 200 species in my collection in Melbourne and almost none are regularly available anywhere and I rely on seed from overseas or swaps/gifts from others in the palm community. I’d say there’s probably 500-800 species that really just aren’t grown that could do well in the cooler areas. 

[peachy]

Tim you are so right about the extreme lack of cooler climate palms available in Australia. Even the common old Parlour Palm (Ch elegans) are impossible to find in a size suitable for planting as they just shove a handful of seedlings into one pot. It's the same story with Golden Canes, Kentias and even Bangalows now.  There's still cheap(ish) small acreage along the 90 mile beach and the climate at places like Lakes Entrance/ Mallacoota would be ideal for cooler climate palms . Brisbane has no rare palm nurseries anymore and the one place that sells plants a bit out of the ordinary, charge like a wounded bull E.G. A 1.2 metre Cyrtostachys renda $495, but even with outrageous prices it is one of the busiest nurseries in Brisbane.  My lifetime ambition has always been a house on one of those 700 sq metre blocks between Brighton and Albert Park, so suitable for a humble woman like me.

Peachy

[TomJ]

If it were me ...   the YAMBA area....   but I'm sure it has gotten expensive

[RichardHemsley]

Stay where you are and open a palm/tropical plant nursery.  You would have at least one customer. 

[happypalms]

50 minutes ago, TomJ said:

If it were me ...   the YAMBA area....   but I'm sure it has gotten expensive

Argh yes Yamba just down the road from me for a lovely area to visit and expensive you bet it is on the million dollar mark for a nice property there and yes I do have a palm nurserie of rare and exotic plus some cold temperate climate palms due to the frost in my area but a lovely part of the world 🌎 and the surfing is out of this world in my area Yamba is just one break available of many 

[Brandon39.5]

21 hours ago, Tyrone said:

I think the conclusions you’ve drawn are what I would have concluded. QLD is the place to be. The Sunshine Coast does grow coconuts well, but is warm subtropical, so you could grow a lot there of all sorts of things. Cairns is great if you want to grow the really tropical stuff and there’s still quite a big population in Cairns. It’s not a sleepy frontier town. I’d suggest checking QLD out for yourself first. The biggest problem we have in Australia at the moment is finding a place to live. We have a housing shortage for rentals and for purchase like we’ve never seen before. It’s a huge problem at the moment. The cost of living is sky rocketing but I think that is a global issue too. 

Thanks for replying, Yeah, looks like Sunshine coast would be better, but I should definitely check out QLD first.

[Brandon39.5]

19 hours ago, peachy said:

If you are prepared to take a step back to 1950 as far as attitudes, services, transport etc, the Qld is the place to be. The Sunshine Coast is growing daily and there are quite a few affluent areas there. It is safer than the Gold Coast too and has lovely beaches. Cairns has the very tropical climate but the beaches aren't really safe to use due to stingers, sea snakes, sharks and the good old salties. It is also a tourist town for over seas visitors and while there are quite a few nurseries there, they depend on internet sales to collectors further south. Over the last year or so central Cairns is a no go zone after dark too which has adversely affected the tourist trade. For a decent home with a good size domestic block of land around it, don't expect any change from $800,000. More with a larger block. A cheaper option would be the small coastal towns in Far North Qld, tropical climate but lower house prices.  I have found that people who move to Qld from the southern states or overseas after 12 months realise they made the mistake of their life and move back to their place of origin or they love it and think it is a paradise. Apart from a few ultra tropical species, most palms and other plants that live in Cairns, do quite well on the Sunshine Coast, or indeed any coastal town, including those just across the border in the northern Rivers area of NSW. Wherever you choose make sure you have reliable water and don't live in a flood zone. 

Hope this helps

Peachy

Seems like cairns is not for me, you guys convinced me, not looking forward to not be able to swim in any beach without thinking of lethal stingers and crocs. Cloudy days and expensive properties Neither I liked Cairns mainly because I could grow lipstick palms, but with the growing opportunities of sunshine coast would be enough, definitely better that what I have now here in Mallorca. I didn't know that cairns is unsafe.

I Appreciate your help, thanks

[Brandon39.5]

11 hours ago, happypalms said:

If you like cyclones and stingers (a sort of jelly fish) and crocodiles and everything going mouldy with such high rainfall go with cairns my choice the Sunshine Coast closer to your target group for plant sales and a half decent area that’s not a million miles away like cairns but ask yourself super tropical  rare varieties or some more obtainable varieties palm seeds are not easy to get in Australia at least the super good tropical rare ones with imported seeds being harder to get a good supplier most good rare viable seeds are traded between other growers making it even harder to get good seeds or plants on the plus side choose the right varieties to grow and the world is your oyster with tropical heat and rainfall you just throw your seeds in and they grow in the tropics good luck with your venture and if you’re in the area drop in I will donate a palm to you ps start to learn Aussie slang and you can go to pub and get in shout having a schooy of new with a dogs eye and a bit of dead horse with ya new cobber mates 

Haha, would love to have bbq  on Saturday and not work on Sundays. There isn't any way to get rare seeds in australia? No rare seeds supplier over there? Would RPS arrive to Australia? My RPS order took more than a month to arrive, can't imagine how much would take to arrive to Australia. I would definitely accept palm donations haha If I'm over there I will try to drop in for sure!

[Brandon39.5]

9 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

A couple more considerations:

QLD is definitely the state if you want ease of growth of tropical palms. The further north you go, the faster tropicals will grow, which sounds good for business if you’re planning a nursery. But…there’s already a lot of competition in that space if you’re planning on growing house plants and relatively common tropical palms. You’ll need to compete with, and beat, not only experienced palm growers but also large scale established nurseries and growers. 
 

Melbourne and Sydney are the most populous cities and property prices are extreme. Growth of palms in general is also much slower than in QLD. This doesn’t sound like a great combination, but there’s an interesting culture where relatively uninformed people are willing to spend a lot on easy to grow, not so special plants as long as they look a bit unusual (think variegated aroids, even golden cane palms and cordylines). I doubt anyone is spending AUD$200 on a small Chrysalidocarpus lutescens in QLD where they are almost a weed, but in Melbourne they’ll sell everyday at all Bunnings (the largest Aus hardware chain). I’d say the ideal model would be something like having a large grow area in QLD (or a large controlled hothouse somewhere further south) but having access to public in the large cities. I’m sure transport costs would eat into profits however. 
 

By the way, I’m biased but I think the true gap in the market is unusual temperate palms. There’s just no growers growing things like Parajubaea, Jubaeopsis, Hedyscepe, Ceroxylon, Jubaea, Brahea, rare Butia and Syagrus etc on any kind of scale. Some people would be willing to pay for these species but unfortunately there’s probably not a huge market. I’ve got about 200 species in my collection in Melbourne and almost none are regularly available anywhere and I rely on seed from overseas or swaps/gifts from others in the palm community. I’d say there’s probably 500-800 species that really just aren’t grown that could do well in the cooler areas. 

Hey, Yeah QLD seems like a great place, that's true I would have to compete with established nurseries and experienced palm growers, Maybe what I should do is to stand out from the others and grow more of the rare stuff on the area, for example I saw in street view that some palms that are common in FL are not in QLD, I don't see much royals, Veitchias, adonidias, phoenix species...  And I should grow the real rare ones too, Dypsis species, specially baronii I think that would do well. Then pritchardia, Bentinckia, chamadorea, chambeyronia, licuala, etc...

Fruit trees too, avocado trees probably sell well, rare exotic fruits and common too like papaya, guava, bananas...

I would like to have the nursery accessible from the big cities, Brisbane, Sunshine coast... how are land prices over there? 

Cool climate palms should more sold in South Australia then, there are so much temperate climate species to choose from.

[Brandon39.5]

3 hours ago, RichardHemsley said:

Stay where you are and open a palm/tropical plant nursery.  You would have at least one customer. 

Haha, that's not a bad idea, no one really sells exotic plants/palms here. 

[Yunder Wækraus]

The Atherton tablelands outside of Cairns (I live in Cairns)

[Tyrone]

11 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

 

By the way, I’m biased but I think the true gap in the market is unusual temperate palms. There’s just no growers growing things like Parajubaea, Jubaeopsis, Hedyscepe, Ceroxylon, Jubaea, Brahea, rare Butia and Syagrus etc on any kind of scale. Some people would be willing to pay for these species but unfortunately there’s probably not a huge market. I’ve got about 200 species in my collection in Melbourne and almost none are regularly available anywhere and I rely on seed from overseas or swaps/gifts from others in the palm community. I’d say there’s probably 500-800 species that really just aren’t grown that could do well in the cooler areas. 

Agree. I’m trying to go in that direction with what I’m growing. My plan is to get groves of these sort of species in so that in time I will have  a seed source for others to also utilise.
 

WA has its own challenges being virtually a country within a country. It makes me laugh to see Bunnings bringing down Bottle palms and Latania from Darwin and expecting people to successfully grow them here. What a waste of a good palm. 

[Darold Petty]

Tyrone, the same malpractice occurs here in California.  The big box stores sell field grown Hyophorbe palms from Florida,  hastily potted up into plastic tubs.  

[Yunder Wækraus]

On 11/21/2023 at 7:28 AM, Brandon39.5 said:

 

Sorry for my short response earlier. I was out walking and could barely see my phone. Now that I'm in front of a desktop, let me say a few things and ask some questions. As someone who's owned homes in California, Florida, and Cairns, I know a bit about being a middle-class customer of nurseries in the (sub)tropical Anglo-sphere

I'll address your question as though it were actually the following three questions:

(1) How can I move to Australia?
(2) Where is the best place in Australia for tropical plants?
(3) Can I make a living with a tropical nursery in that area?


Answer to (1): [If you're already an Australian or New Zealand citizen, ignore the following!] Australia is quite unlike the USA in terms of its immigration system. I am an immigrant here, and I can tell you a bit about my experience (though the laws are always changing, so my experiences and recollections might differ from the situation in which you'll find yourself). Unless you have a significant amount of money to invest (which you might have), you generally need either a sponsoring employer or an Australian spouse if you wish to get a visa to live and work here for multiple years. I was sponsored by an Australian university at which I had a 5-year contract (now expired), but even with a PhD and a 5-year university contract to be a researcher and lecturer, the initial visa for which I was sponsored (the now-defunct 457, which has been replaced by the 482) was a terrible deal. It only allowed me to live in Australia for 4 years; it did not allow me to access the nation's healthcare system and, instead, mandated that I purchase private health insurance that is only sold to foreigners (and covered virtually nothing), and it did not allow me to purchase a home. I had a family of 6 at the time, and the total cost in US dollars for us to pay a private migration assistant and the Australian government for our 457 visas was close to $10,000. After we'd been here more than a year, I petitioned my employer to sponsor me for permanent residency. They almost refused, and I had to point out that I otherwise had a 4-year visa for a 5-year contract. In the end, they sponsored me, but I had to pay a migration assistant and government fees again for the 6 of us, which worked out to more than $10,000 USD again (and this was only about 1.5 years since I'd originally paid the $10k!). In 2019, when we became permanent residents, the rules were as follows: no one over 45 could apply to be permanent resident unless s/he was married to the primary applicant (thus, I could have applied, and my wife could have been 50+ without difficulty). We also had to pass a medical examination. If you have any chronic health problem, you'll likely be refused the permanent residency visa. As a permanent resident, you have the right to live and work in Australia forever, and you have access to the national healthcare system. You may not vote, and if you wish to travel outside of Australia, you must renew your permanent residency visa every five years. This proved a dangerous situation, as when Covid-19 hit, many people who were legally traveling outside of Australia as permanent residents became trapped abroad, and their visas were not allowed to be renewed from abroad. There is no easy way to reinstate the visa, so you could have been here for 10 years, owned a home, etc., and then be denied the right to ever live here permanently again. If you are a permanent resident, you may eventually apply to be a citizen. For us, the rules were as follows: you must be a permanent resident; you must have lived in the country for 4 years; you must not have left the country for more than 90 days in the previous year and not more than a cumulative of 12 months over that 4-year period. The application is daunting and complex, and, again, we had to hire the same migration assistant, though this time the total cost was about $5,000 USD. All told, we spent ~$25,000 USD on visas and citizenship in under 5 years. I don't know your situation, but if you wish to message me privately, I can give you the name of an excellent migration assistant here in the Cairns area who made things happen for us and who is also helping another American scholar's family become citizens.

Answer to (2): The Wet Tropics of Australia are, obviously, the most outstanding location on the whole continent for tropical plants. This is true both in terms of what you can grow and what is growing naturally. There's nothing like it in the English-speaking world. Period. The Wet Tropics run from just north of Townsville to just south of Cooktown (with few more patches of rainforest north of Cooktown, but there are no open communities up there). The largest community in the Wet Tropics is Cairns, which is actually a town surrounded by a multitude of suburbs. There are some other smaller towns along the coast, including Innisfail (an economically depressed community, but one that is greener/lusher than Cairns), Mission Beach (very touristy), Mossman (a bit like Innisfail in its overall vibe in both good and bad ways), and Port Douglas (also small and touristy). However, once you go over the mountains to Kuranda and the Atherton Tablelands, you're in the finest country on the continent. Ancient vulcanism has made the Atherton Tablelands uniquely fertile, and the high altitude keeps things beautifully cool in the summer. It's in these mountains that you see giant tree ferns, tree kangaroos, cassowaries, Victoria's bird of paradise, etc. There are several communities, but the lushest would be Malanda, where many rural residents have tree kangaroos in their backyards!

Answer to (3): There is an excellent nursery in Cairns, and it does good business. The entire region--MAYBE!--has a population of ~200,000. This is a small area. Developers do use a lot of palms (our house came with a fan palm, a lipstick palm, and a foxtail as standard landscaping), but, in general, people are not trying to push the limits. Most grow what looks best to them, and thus you'll see endless foxtails, royals, lipstick palms, coconuts, etc. I really couldn't say whether you could find your own niche. It would really depend on your wealth and goals. (For example, there might be a path to a visa via business investment, so perhaps you could buy a pre-existing nursery or farm.) If I had the money, I'd buy a property on the Tablelands and grow stuff!

In summary, it's an amazing place, and you won't regret coming here. However, you will need to be realistic about the costs and long-term benefits of relocating.

One final note: there are no saltwater crocs on the Atherton Tablelands, so you can swim freeling in all the many beautiful springs and lakes there. I'll attach a photo I took in one of the towns  

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Coastal Tasmania if you like growing Hedyscepe 

[iko.]

Hola,

A few thoughts:

- In North QLD, I would rather consider Townsville than Cairns. A bit sunnier, drier and more "urban".

- However, the area including Sunshine Coast-Brisbane-Gold Coast would be my preference if looking to grow palm trees and open a business. 

- Growing wholesale may require time to establish and the potential clients would be landscaping companies. If so, wealthy and growing areas are your interest to live or easily ship to. 

- If opening a nursery, people in the south such as Melburnians, coastal NSW and Perth are likely to pay more for plants/palms. If growing very rare plants/palms and selling online, the demographic can be ignored slightly.

- There are strict quarantine laws to enter in Australia, not only for plants (see above @Yunder Wækraus' brief introduction to the immigration system). Quarantine laws for plants also apply between some states: WA,SA, Tasmania, NT, Northern QLD for bananas,... Actually, quarantine laws for plants do also exist when sending from the Balearic Islands, for the Xylella fastidiosa bacterial disease.

- I have sold online small Proteas in Australia and people paid almost whatever I wanted. After that, I sold tropical bulbs in Europe, mostly Caladiums, and had the same success. For a starter, an online business as a side job is the way to go I think.

- If you still thinking wholesale and palms/tropical plants, I tend to think that there is a bigger business in Europe than in Australia though. 

- About your interest in coconuts... I'm not sure if there's a notable market for mature coconuts neither in Europe nor Australia. I could see a niche for varieties, sprouted or small plants but I wouldn't plan to live on. 

Good luck anywhere you end up going!

[iko.]

15 hours ago, RichardHemsley said:

Stay where you are and open a palm/tropical plant nursery.  You would have at least one customer. 

+1 = two customers

[johnnymak]

On 11/21/2023 at 11:05 AM, peachy said:

while there are quite a few nurseries there, they depend on internet sales to collectors further south. 

Do they? The nursery I work at seems to be reasonably successful and we don't send anything outside of Queensland. As for Cairns being a no go zone after dark, I can't recall ever having any issues.

Edited November 22, 2023 by johnnymak
Accuracy

[Brandon39.5]

15 hours ago, Yunder Wækraus said:

Sorry for my short response earlier. I was out walking and could barely see my phone. Now that I'm in front of a desktop, let me say a few things and ask some questions. As someone who's owned homes in California, Florida, and Cairns, I know a bit about being a middle-class customer of nurseries in the (sub)tropical Anglo-sphere

I'll address your question as though it were actually the following three questions:

(1) How can I move to Australia?
(2) Where is the best place in Australia for tropical plants?
(3) Can I make a living with a tropical nursery in that area?


Answer to (1): [If you're already an Australian or New Zealand citizen, ignore the following!] Australia is quite unlike the USA in terms of its immigration system. I am an immigrant here, and I can tell you a bit about my experience (though the laws are always changing, so my experiences and recollections might differ from the situation in which you'll find yourself). Unless you have a significant amount of money to invest (which you might have), you generally need either a sponsoring employer or an Australian spouse if you wish to get a visa to live and work here for multiple years. I was sponsored by an Australian university at which I had a 5-year contract (now expired), but even with a PhD and a 5-year university contract to be a researcher and lecturer, the initial visa for which I was sponsored (the now-defunct 457, which has been replaced by the 482) was a terrible deal. It only allowed me to live in Australia for 4 years; it did not allow me to access the nation's healthcare system and, instead, mandated that I purchase private health insurance that is only sold to foreigners (and covered virtually nothing), and it did not allow me to purchase a home. I had a family of 6 at the time, and the total cost in US dollars for us to pay a private migration assistant and the Australian government for our 457 visas was close to $10,000. After we'd been here more than a year, I petitioned my employer to sponsor me for permanent residency. They almost refused, and I had to point out that I otherwise had a 4-year visa for a 5-year contract. In the end, they sponsored me, but I had to pay a migration assistant and government fees again for the 6 of us, which worked out to more than $10,000 USD again (and this was only about 1.5 years since I'd originally paid the $10k!). In 2019, when we became permanent residents, the rules were as follows: no one over 45 could apply to be permanent resident unless s/he was married to the primary applicant (thus, I could have applied, and my wife could have been 50+ without difficulty). We also had to pass a medical examination. If you have any chronic health problem, you'll likely be refused the permanent residency visa. As a permanent resident, you have the right to live and work in Australia forever, and you have access to the national healthcare system. You may not vote, and if you wish to travel outside of Australia, you must renew your permanent residency visa every five years. This proved a dangerous situation, as when Covid-19 hit, many people who were legally traveling outside of Australia as permanent residents became trapped abroad, and their visas were not allowed to be renewed from abroad. There is no easy way to reinstate the visa, so you could have been here for 10 years, owned a home, etc., and then be denied the right to ever live here permanently again. If you are a permanent resident, you may eventually apply to be a citizen. For us, the rules were as follows: you must be a permanent resident; you must have lived in the country for 4 years; you must not have left the country for more than 90 days in the previous year and not more than a cumulative of 12 months over that 4-year period. The application is daunting and complex, and, again, we had to hire the same migration assistant, though this time the total cost was about $5,000 USD. All told, we spent ~$25,000 USD on visas and citizenship in under 5 years. I don't know your situation, but if you wish to message me privately, I can give you the name of an excellent migration assistant here in the Cairns area who made things happen for us and who is also helping another American scholar's family become citizens.

Answer to (2): The Wet Tropics of Australia are, obviously, the most outstanding location on the whole continent for tropical plants. This is true both in terms of what you can grow and what is growing naturally. There's nothing like it in the English-speaking world. Period. The Wet Tropics run from just north of Townsville to just south of Cooktown (with few more patches of rainforest north of Cooktown, but there are no open communities up there). The largest community in the Wet Tropics is Cairns, which is actually a town surrounded by a multitude of suburbs. There are some other smaller towns along the coast, including Innisfail (an economically depressed community, but one that is greener/lusher than Cairns), Mission Beach (very touristy), Mossman (a bit like Innisfail in its overall vibe in both good and bad ways), and Port Douglas (also small and touristy). However, once you go over the mountains to Kuranda and the Atherton Tablelands, you're in the finest country on the continent. Ancient vulcanism has made the Atherton Tablelands uniquely fertile, and the high altitude keeps things beautifully cool in the summer. It's in these mountains that you see giant tree ferns, tree kangaroos, cassowaries, Victoria's bird of paradise, etc. There are several communities, but the lushest would be Malanda, where many rural residents have tree kangaroos in their backyards!

Answer to (3): There is an excellent nursery in Cairns, and it does good business. The entire region--MAYBE!--has a population of ~200,000. This is a small area. Developers do use a lot of palms (our house came with a fan palm, a lipstick palm, and a foxtail as standard landscaping), but, in general, people are not trying to push the limits. Most grow what looks best to them, and thus you'll see endless foxtails, royals, lipstick palms, coconuts, etc. I really couldn't say whether you could find your own niche. It would really depend on your wealth and goals. (For example, there might be a path to a visa via business investment, so perhaps you could buy a pre-existing nursery or farm.) If I had the money, I'd buy a property on the Tablelands and grow stuff!

In summary, it's an amazing place, and you won't regret coming here. However, you will need to be realistic about the costs and long-term benefits of relocating.

One final note: there are no saltwater crocs on the Atherton Tablelands, so you can swim freeling in all the many beautiful springs and lakes there. I'll attach a photo I took in one of the towns  

First of all thanks for replying. 

(1) responding to your reply on How can I move to Australia? Well, I have a UK passport, would that make it easier to get the permanent residence? I heard that the UK and Australia have connections and that it's actually easier to make the move. Not sure because I've didn't do a research about this Visa thing. I might have to get a migration assistant, PM me, and we can talk about this matter. I'm still very young, so I have time to decide. 

(2) yes, Definitely cairns looks like is the best place to grow tropical stuff. I'm still very undecided on where in Australia to go, I love Cairns but the problem I see is the underpopulation, and fear to not have a public to sell plants. In the other hand Sunshine coast alone almost doubles the population of cairns, and has right beside Brisbane with +2M people living, and Gold coast quite near too.  So that's a good point to move to the Sunshine coast area. 

(3) I'm still not sure what to do but If I can do something related to plants (specially palms) I couldn't be happier, and that's my goal basically. If you PM me, we can talk about this in more detail. In conclusion, I love far north Queensland and I would love to move there, but I like the Sunshine coast area too, but not as much As cairns. But I suppose that before moving, I should check QLD out by myself! And not judge places from the computer. 

[Brandon39.5]

12 hours ago, Tassie_Troy1971 said:

Coastal Tasmania if you like growing Hedyscepe 

That Hedyscepe is just stunning! It should be grown more in southern Australia!

[Brandon39.5]

10 hours ago, iko. said:

Hola,

A few thoughts:

- In North QLD, I would rather consider Townsville than Cairns. A bit sunnier, drier and more "urban".

- However, the area including Sunshine Coast-Brisbane-Gold Coast would be my preference if looking to grow palm trees and open a business. 

- Growing wholesale may require time to establish and the potential clients would be landscaping companies. If so, wealthy and growing areas are your interest to live or easily ship to. 

- If opening a nursery, people in the south such as Melburnians, coastal NSW and Perth are likely to pay more for plants/palms. If growing very rare plants/palms and selling online, the demographic can be ignored slightly.

- There are strict quarantine laws to enter in Australia, not only for plants (see above @Yunder Wækraus' brief introduction to the immigration system). Quarantine laws for plants also apply between some states: WA,SA, Tasmania, NT, Northern QLD for bananas,... Actually, quarantine laws for plants do also exist when sending from the Balearic Islands, for the Xylella fastidiosa bacterial disease.

- I have sold online small Proteas in Australia and people paid almost whatever I wanted. After that, I sold tropical bulbs in Europe, mostly Caladiums, and had the same success. For a starter, an online business as a side job is the way to go I think.

- If you still thinking wholesale and palms/tropical plants, I tend to think that there is a bigger business in Europe than in Australia though. 

- About your interest in coconuts... I'm not sure if there's a notable market for mature coconuts neither in Europe nor Australia. I could see a niche for varieties, sprouted or small plants but I wouldn't plan to live on. 

Good luck anywhere you end up going!

Thanks for replying, I'm not sure where to go in Australia really, There are so many beautiful places! Top 3 list would be:

1. Cairns

2. Sunshine coast

3. Townsville

what I don't like about Townsville is the underpopulation and the fact that it is a bit too arid, maybe from cairns I could still be able to do deliveries to Townsville because it is not that far away to be Australia, Just 4h. I like the views from Townsville to magnetic island. Coconuts wouldn't be my only preference, If I had a nursery I would sell Palms, Ornamental trees, small plants, houseplants and fruit trees.

[Yunder Wækraus]

1 hour ago, Brandon39.5 said:

First of all thanks for replying. 

(1) responding to your reply on How can I move to Australia? Well, I have a UK passport, would that make it easier to get the permanent residence? I heard that the UK and Australia have connections and that it's actually easier to make the move. Not sure because I've didn't do a research about this Visa thing. I might have to get a migration assistant, PM me, and we can talk about this matter. I'm still very young, so I have time to decide. 

(2) yes, Definitely cairns looks like is the best place to grow tropical stuff. I'm still very undecided on where in Australia to go, I love Cairns but the problem I see is the underpopulation, and fear to not have a public to sell plants. In the other hand Sunshine coast alone almost doubles the population of cairns, and has right beside Brisbane with +2M people living, and Gold coast quite near too.  So that's a good point to move to the Sunshine coast area. 

(3) I'm still not sure what to do but If I can do something related to plants (specially palms) I couldn't be happier, and that's my goal basically. If you PM me, we can talk about this in more detail. In conclusion, I love far north Queensland and I would love to move there, but I like the Sunshine coast area too, but not as much As cairns. But I suppose that before moving, I should check QLD out by myself! And not judge places from the computer. 

No, the UK passport won’t grant you special access for permanent residency, but if you’re young enough, I think there’s a 1-year visa that allows you to work in the labor force and thereby travel the country. (I think that’s still a thing)

[Tyrone]

2 hours ago, Brandon39.5 said:

That Hedyscepe is just stunning! It should be grown more in southern Australia!

Troy grows a mean Hedyscepe.
 

The problem with Hedyscepe is the complete lack of seeds available. Lord Howe Island is just not interested in releasing seed or seedlings. When I spoke to the new nursery manager there in 2018, she basically said that Lord Howe Island palms struggle on the mainland, and she was talking about Howea forsteriana !!!!  I was trying to convince her to start growing Howea belmoreana but they are just geared to growing forsteriana and nothing else. LHI has many more species of endemic flora that many would love to grow, but I think LHI is just one eyed for Howea forsteriana and are missing out on opportunities. They were building a micro brewery and restaurant at the nursery, so maybe there efforts were going to that. Would love to see if it is up and running. 

[peachy]

22 hours ago, Yunder Wækraus said:

Sorry for my short response earlier. I was out walking and could barely see my phone. Now that I'm in front of a desktop, let me say a few things and ask some questions. As someone who's owned homes in California, Florida, and Cairns, I know a bit about being a middle-class customer of nurseries in the (sub)tropical Anglo-sphere

I'll address your question as though it were actually the following three questions:

(1) How can I move to Australia?
(2) Where is the best place in Australia for tropical plants?
(3) Can I make a living with a tropical nursery in that area?


Answer to (1): [If you're already an Australian or New Zealand citizen, ignore the following!] Australia is quite unlike the USA in terms of its immigration system. I am an immigrant here, and I can tell you a bit about my experience (though the laws are always changing, so my experiences and recollections might differ from the situation in which you'll find yourself). Unless you have a significant amount of money to invest (which you might have), you generally need either a sponsoring employer or an Australian spouse if you wish to get a visa to live and work here for multiple years. I was sponsored by an Australian university at which I had a 5-year contract (now expired), but even with a PhD and a 5-year university contract to be a researcher and lecturer, the initial visa for which I was sponsored (the now-defunct 457, which has been replaced by the 482) was a terrible deal. It only allowed me to live in Australia for 4 years; it did not allow me to access the nation's healthcare system and, instead, mandated that I purchase private health insurance that is only sold to foreigners (and covered virtually nothing), and it did not allow me to purchase a home. I had a family of 6 at the time, and the total cost in US dollars for us to pay a private migration assistant and the Australian government for our 457 visas was close to $10,000. After we'd been here more than a year, I petitioned my employer to sponsor me for permanent residency. They almost refused, and I had to point out that I otherwise had a 4-year visa for a 5-year contract. In the end, they sponsored me, but I had to pay a migration assistant and government fees again for the 6 of us, which worked out to more than $10,000 USD again (and this was only about 1.5 years since I'd originally paid the $10k!). In 2019, when we became permanent residents, the rules were as follows: no one over 45 could apply to be permanent resident unless s/he was married to the primary applicant (thus, I could have applied, and my wife could have been 50+ without difficulty). We also had to pass a medical examination. If you have any chronic health problem, you'll likely be refused the permanent residency visa. As a permanent resident, you have the right to live and work in Australia forever, and you have access to the national healthcare system. You may not vote, and if you wish to travel outside of Australia, you must renew your permanent residency visa every five years. This proved a dangerous situation, as when Covid-19 hit, many people who were legally traveling outside of Australia as permanent residents became trapped abroad, and their visas were not allowed to be renewed from abroad. There is no easy way to reinstate the visa, so you could have been here for 10 years, owned a home, etc., and then be denied the right to ever live here permanently again. If you are a permanent resident, you may eventually apply to be a citizen. For us, the rules were as follows: you must be a permanent resident; you must have lived in the country for 4 years; you must not have left the country for more than 90 days in the previous year and not more than a cumulative of 12 months over that 4-year period. The application is daunting and complex, and, again, we had to hire the same migration assistant, though this time the total cost was about $5,000 USD. All told, we spent ~$25,000 USD on visas and citizenship in under 5 years. I don't know your situation, but if you wish to message me privately, I can give you the name of an excellent migration assistant here in the Cairns area who made things happen for us and who is also helping another American scholar's family become citizens.

Answer to (2): The Wet Tropics of Australia are, obviously, the most outstanding location on the whole continent for tropical plants. This is true both in terms of what you can grow and what is growing naturally. There's nothing like it in the English-speaking world. Period. The Wet Tropics run from just north of Townsville to just south of Cooktown (with few more patches of rainforest north of Cooktown, but there are no open communities up there). The largest community in the Wet Tropics is Cairns, which is actually a town surrounded by a multitude of suburbs. There are some other smaller towns along the coast, including Innisfail (an economically depressed community, but one that is greener/lusher than Cairns), Mission Beach (very touristy), Mossman (a bit like Innisfail in its overall vibe in both good and bad ways), and Port Douglas (also small and touristy). However, once you go over the mountains to Kuranda and the Atherton Tablelands, you're in the finest country on the continent. Ancient vulcanism has made the Atherton Tablelands uniquely fertile, and the high altitude keeps things beautifully cool in the summer. It's in these mountains that you see giant tree ferns, tree kangaroos, cassowaries, Victoria's bird of paradise, etc. There are several communities, but the lushest would be Malanda, where many rural residents have tree kangaroos in their backyards!

Answer to (3): There is an excellent nursery in Cairns, and it does good business. The entire region--MAYBE!--has a population of ~200,000. This is a small area. Developers do use a lot of palms (our house came with a fan palm, a lipstick palm, and a foxtail as standard landscaping), but, in general, people are not trying to push the limits. Most grow what looks best to them, and thus you'll see endless foxtails, royals, lipstick palms, coconuts, etc. I really couldn't say whether you could find your own niche. It would really depend on your wealth and goals. (For example, there might be a path to a visa via business investment, so perhaps you could buy a pre-existing nursery or farm.) If I had the money, I'd buy a property on the Tablelands and grow stuff!

In summary, it's an amazing place, and you won't regret coming here. However, you will need to be realistic about the costs and long-term benefits of relocating.

One final note: there are no saltwater crocs on the Atherton Tablelands, so you can swim freeling in all the many beautiful springs and lakes there. I'll attach a photo I took in one of the towns  

Atherton Tablelands have a more hospitable climate for plants, animals and people as it doesn't get the extreme heat and humidity of the coastal tropics.  I agree with the statements about our ridiculous immigration rules.  Unless you are from a peasant/tribal background, cannot speak the language, want handouts from the minute you land, determined to keep your customs no matter how they can offend western people and having criminal tendencies in some cases,  migrating here is slow, difficult and expensive.  Our Govt just doesn't welcome educated people from a Western background. I have met some wonderful, intelligent, honest people who eventually gave up trying to stay here, a loss to our society for no understandable reasons. Educated asian people can also have problems and have to resort to immigration lawyers, at great cost.  I am ashamed of these regulations and know so many people who agree with me.  

Most of the online nurseries (not saying all of them) seem to do quite well but the prices charged have reached the point that it is not worth risk to me buying something, paying a lot of money and having it die. Many of them sell wholesale to online Nurseries in Sydney and Brisbane who also charge massive prices but seem to stay in business.  I see palms and aroids on these sites but only pay the big prices once or twice a year as a treat to myself and then only if the plant is some irresistibly fantastic and unavailable elsewhere.  Mostly I buy palms, aroids etc from Palmtalk people and keep it mishpocha

You must be a country person at heart to survive in all these place and be prepared to travel long distances fairly often.  I am urbanised to the core. Living in rural Qld was my experience of hell on earth. I hated the climate, the inconvenience, the attitudes and the people. Yes I made a glorious garden and had a house the size of a town hall but nearly lost my sanity. Other people thought I lived in a paradise.  It's something you really have to think seriously about before you try to make your dream into a reality.

I love the platypus, I see them rarely now but even though they are appealing little creatures they have drawbacks.  The males have spurs that can give a very painful sting !!

Peachy

 

[peachy]

18 hours ago, iko. said:

Hola,

A few thoughts:

- In North QLD, I would rather consider Townsville than Cairns. A bit sunnier, drier and more "urban".

- However, the area including Sunshine Coast-Brisbane-Gold Coast would be my preference if looking to grow palm trees and open a business. 

- Growing wholesale may require time to establish and the potential clients would be landscaping companies. If so, wealthy and growing areas are your interest to live or easily ship to. 

- If opening a nursery, people in the south such as Melburnians, coastal NSW and Perth are likely to pay more for plants/palms. If growing very rare plants/palms and selling online, the demographic can be ignored slightly.

- There are strict quarantine laws to enter in Australia, not only for plants (see above @Yunder Wækraus' brief introduction to the immigration system). Quarantine laws for plants also apply between some states: WA,SA, Tasmania, NT, Northern QLD for bananas,... Actually, quarantine laws for plants do also exist when sending from the Balearic Islands, for the Xylella fastidiosa bacterial disease.

- I have sold online small Proteas in Australia and people paid almost whatever I wanted. After that, I sold tropical bulbs in Europe, mostly Caladiums, and had the same success. For a starter, an online business as a side job is the way to go I think.

- If you still thinking wholesale and palms/tropical plants, I tend to think that there is a bigger business in Europe than in Australia though. 

- About your interest in coconuts... I'm not sure if there's a notable market for mature coconuts neither in Europe nor Australia. I could see a niche for varieties, sprouted or small plants but I wouldn't plan to live on. 

Good luck anywhere you end up going!

I just saw an online ad for a nursery selling sprouting coconuts. a mere $140 each.  Coconut palms started getting pricey in Brisbane about 15 years ago and keep going up in price.

Peachy

 

 

[peachy]

16 hours ago, johnnymak said:

Do they? The nursery I work at seems to be reasonably successful and we don't send anything outside of Queensland. As for Cairns being a no go zone after dark, I can't recall ever having any issues.

For the years I was a resident in Sydney,  Melbourne and New York, I could go places where a tourist or out of towner wouldn't last 5 minutes. The trouble makers learn not to target the locals. There are still parts of Brisbane where I can't go safely day or night.

Peachy

 

[peachy]

20 hours ago, Tassie_Troy1971 said:

Coastal Tasmania if you like growing Hedyscepe 

I had no luck with Hedyscepes and now I see you with fat healthy Hostas too !  grr. Did you see the woman from Hobart on G.A. with the collection of Vireyas ? I have spent 20 odd years trying to grow Hydrangeas here. Only over the last 3 years have most of them stayed alive and this year they flowered. With my new garden I am determined to have the plants and palms I love most (within limits) and so far it is working out. Global warming might be helping a bit, things I planted early days at the old house that never made it are doing quite well here.

Go the zone pushers and those creative enough to use cold climate plants to get a really tropical look.

Peachy

 

[Yunder Wækraus]

18 hours ago, iko. said:

Hola,

A few thoughts:

- In North QLD, I would rather consider Townsville than Cairns. A bit sunnier, drier and more "urban".

- However, the area including Sunshine Coast-Brisbane-Gold Coast would be my preference if looking to grow palm trees and open a business. 

- Growing wholesale may require time to establish and the potential clients would be landscaping companies. If so, wealthy and growing areas are your interest to live or easily ship to. 

- If opening a nursery, people in the south such as Melburnians, coastal NSW and Perth are likely to pay more for plants/palms. If growing very rare plants/palms and selling online, the demographic can be ignored slightly.

- There are strict quarantine laws to enter in Australia, not only for plants (see above @Yunder Wækraus' brief introduction to the immigration system). Quarantine laws for plants also apply between some states: WA,SA, Tasmania, NT, Northern QLD for bananas,... Actually, quarantine laws for plants do also exist when sending from the Balearic Islands, for the Xylella fastidiosa bacterial disease.

- I have sold online small Proteas in Australia and people paid almost whatever I wanted. After that, I sold tropical bulbs in Europe, mostly Caladiums, and had the same success. For a starter, an online business as a side job is the way to go I think.

- If you still thinking wholesale and palms/tropical plants, I tend to think that there is a bigger business in Europe than in Australia though. 

- About your interest in coconuts... I'm not sure if there's a notable market for mature coconuts neither in Europe nor Australia. I could see a niche for varieties, sprouted or small plants but I wouldn't plan to live on. 

Good luck anywhere you end up going!

 

17 minutes ago, peachy said:

For the years I was a resident in Sydney,  Melbourne and New York, I could go places where a tourist or out of towner wouldn't last 5 minutes. The trouble makers learn not to target the locals. There are still parts of Brisbane where I can't go safely day or night.

Peachy

 

I've never lived anywhere safer than Cairns. You'd have to go out of your way to get into trouble here, and the crime stats (REAL crime) show it. We average between 0 and 1 murders a year. To put that in perspective, Logan, Utah, one of the safest cities in America, has 1/3 the population of Cairns and has up to 3 murders a year. Much of the reported crime here has to do with Aboriginal youths, who routinely steal cars and are barely punished. However, they generally don't car-jack anyone; rather, they walk into unlocked houses and steal the car keys. That's right: people here don't even lock their houses. I can't speak for the whole world, but I've lived on both the east and west coasts of the USA and in England, and nowhere was as safe as Cairns. In ~6 years we've not had anything stolen from our home or car, though one of our sons had his skateboard stolen at school (again, because he would just leave it propped up against a wall because it's usually so benign here). In the California town where I grew up, I had four bikes and one skateboard stolen in under 10 years (and witnessed a shooting, etc.). Long story short: you'll be safer here than almost anywhere in N. America or Europe.

[Brandon39.5]

9 hours ago, Yunder Wækraus said:

Sorry for my short response earlier. I was out walking and could barely see my phone. Now that I'm in front of a desktop, let me say a few things and ask some questions. As someone who's owned homes in California, Florida, and Cairns, I know a bit about being a middle-class customer of nurseries in the (sub)tropical Anglo-sphere

I'll address your question as though it were actually the following three questions:

(1) How can I move to Australia?
(2) Where is the best place in Australia for tropical plants?
(3) Can I make a living with a tropical nursery in that area?


Answer to (1): [If you're already an Australian or New Zealand citizen, ignore the following!] Australia is quite unlike the USA in terms of its immigration system. I am an immigrant here, and I can tell you a bit about my experience (though the laws are always changing, so my experiences and recollections might differ from the situation in which you'll find yourself). Unless you have a significant amount of money to invest (which you might have), you generally need either a sponsoring employer or an Australian spouse if you wish to get a visa to live and work here for multiple years. I was sponsored by an Australian university at which I had a 5-year contract (now expired), but even with a PhD and a 5-year university contract to be a researcher and lecturer, the initial visa for which I was sponsored (the now-defunct 457, which has been replaced by the 482) was a terrible deal. It only allowed me to live in Australia for 4 years; it did not allow me to access the nation's healthcare system and, instead, mandated that I purchase private health insurance that is only sold to foreigners (and covered virtually nothing), and it did not allow me to purchase a home. I had a family of 6 at the time, and the total cost in US dollars for us to pay a private migration assistant and the Australian government for our 457 visas was close to $10,000. After we'd been here more than a year, I petitioned my employer to sponsor me for permanent residency. They almost refused, and I had to point out that I otherwise had a 4-year visa for a 5-year contract. In the end, they sponsored me, but I had to pay a migration assistant and government fees again for the 6 of us, which worked out to more than $10,000 USD again (and this was only about 1.5 years since I'd originally paid the $10k!). In 2019, when we became permanent residents, the rules were as follows: no one over 45 could apply to be permanent resident unless s/he was married to the primary applicant (thus, I could have applied, and my wife could have been 50+ without difficulty). We also had to pass a medical examination. If you have any chronic health problem, you'll likely be refused the permanent residency visa. As a permanent resident, you have the right to live and work in Australia forever, and you have access to the national healthcare system. You may not vote, and if you wish to travel outside of Australia, you must renew your permanent residency visa every five years. This proved a dangerous situation, as when Covid-19 hit, many people who were legally traveling outside of Australia as permanent residents became trapped abroad, and their visas were not allowed to be renewed from abroad. There is no easy way to reinstate the visa, so you could have been here for 10 years, owned a home, etc., and then be denied the right to ever live here permanently again. If you are a permanent resident, you may eventually apply to be a citizen. For us, the rules were as follows: you must be a permanent resident; you must have lived in the country for 4 years; you must not have left the country for more than 90 days in the previous year and not more than a cumulative of 12 months over that 4-year period. The application is daunting and complex, and, again, we had to hire the same migration assistant, though this time the total cost was about $5,000 USD. All told, we spent ~$25,000 USD on visas and citizenship in under 5 years. I don't know your situation, but if you wish to message me privately, I can give you the name of an excellent migration assistant here in the Cairns area who made things happen for us and who is also helping another American scholar's family become citizens.

Answer to (2): The Wet Tropics of Australia are, obviously, the most outstanding location on the whole continent for tropical plants. This is true both in terms of what you can grow and what is growing naturally. There's nothing like it in the English-speaking world. Period. The Wet Tropics run from just north of Townsville to just south of Cooktown (with few more patches of rainforest north of Cooktown, but there are no open communities up there). The largest community in the Wet Tropics is Cairns, which is actually a town surrounded by a multitude of suburbs. There are some other smaller towns along the coast, including Innisfail (an economically depressed community, but one that is greener/lusher than Cairns), Mission Beach (very touristy), Mossman (a bit like Innisfail in its overall vibe in both good and bad ways), and Port Douglas (also small and touristy). However, once you go over the mountains to Kuranda and the Atherton Tablelands, you're in the finest country on the continent. Ancient vulcanism has made the Atherton Tablelands uniquely fertile, and the high altitude keeps things beautifully cool in the summer. It's in these mountains that you see giant tree ferns, tree kangaroos, cassowaries, Victoria's bird of paradise, etc. There are several communities, but the lushest would be Malanda, where many rural residents have tree kangaroos in their backyards!

Answer to (3): There is an excellent nursery in Cairns, and it does good business. The entire region--MAYBE!--has a population of ~200,000. This is a small area. Developers do use a lot of palms (our house came with a fan palm, a lipstick palm, and a foxtail as standard landscaping), but, in general, people are not trying to push the limits. Most grow what looks best to them, and thus you'll see endless foxtails, royals, lipstick palms, coconuts, etc. I really couldn't say whether you could find your own niche. It would really depend on your wealth and goals. (For example, there might be a path to a visa via business investment, so perhaps you could buy a pre-existing nursery or farm.) If I had the money, I'd buy a property on the Tablelands and grow stuff!

In summary, it's an amazing place, and you won't regret coming here. However, you will need to be realistic about the costs and long-term benefits of relocating.

One final note: there are no saltwater crocs on the Atherton Tablelands, so you can swim freeling in all the many beautiful springs and lakes there. I'll attach a photo I took in one of the towns  

 

 

[Brandon39.5]

Just now, Brandon39.5 said:

 

 

Hey, so there's one thing that I hate about Australia, and that is the migration system, looks like Australia might not be my place, Why would Australia have this strict rules if they have underpopulation in most cities, I thought that Australia wanted migration in their country. Australia looks like is not my place, maybe I could take this nursery idea to Europe, For example the Canary Islands, no restrictions there because It's Spain, and I'm Spanish too.

[Brandon39.5]

1 hour ago, Brandon39.5 said:

 

 

I would love to spend at least one year, maybe working in a nursery in cairns,

[PalmyEd]

It would obviously depend on species, but the best for the widest range of palms would definitely be the coastal strip of far north Queensland from around Cardwell in the south to Daintree in the north. Further south the climate gets drier especially in the dry season (winter-spring) and to the north the paved roads run out and it gets very remote. The main city is Cairns, with a smaller centre at Innisfail. Further south, Townsville is a larger city but I didn't find it so attractive in the dry savanna landscape. It does have a very good palmetum though, I'm guessing the plants need a fair bit of watering in the dry season.

I visited in Oct 2016 and it's a very beautiful part of the world with sugar cane fields backed by rainforest covered mountains. Lots of palms to see eg sealing wax palms in gardens and even roadside landscaping. Many people don't like the heat and humidity though. And one thing I've noticed about Australians is that most of them live in or around the largest cities so they tend to be very metropolitan and think that civilisation doesn't extend much beyond Sydney, Melbourne etc and Cairns is the back of beyond, but that wasn't my impression when I visited.

[tim_brissy_13]

On 11/23/2023 at 7:10 PM, Brandon39.5 said:

Hey, so there's one thing that I hate about Australia, and that is the migration system, looks like Australia might not be my place, Why would Australia have this strict rules if they have underpopulation in most cities, I thought that Australia wanted migration in their country. Australia looks like is not my place, maybe I could take this nursery idea to Europe, For example the Canary Islands, no restrictions there because It's Spain, and I'm Spanish too.

Where have you heard that Australia is underpopulated in most cities? There’s a bit of a myth that Australia is underpopulated based on the general population density, but we’re relatively overpopulated with respect to our natural resources. A huge proportion of the country is basically arid. 

[Brandon39.5]

4 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Where have you heard that Australia is underpopulated in most cities? There’s a bit of a myth that Australia is underpopulated based on the general population density, but we’re relatively overpopulated with respect to our natural resources. A huge proportion of the country is basically arid. 

Yeah, I know not counting the "outbacks" Australia is kinda underpopulated, obviously the major cities are not, Sidney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide.  But specially far north QLD could take some more population honestly, cities like Townsville, Cairns, Mackay, Rockhampton have more potential. Still a great country, and I want to go there and perhaps move to Cairns. I shouldn't be judging from here in Mallorca where there's a clear Over population, for comparison, Kangaroo island near Adelaide is bigger than Mallorca, Kangaroo island has 4.405 km² and with approximately 5,000 people living, and Mallorca is 3.640 km² and with almost 1 million people living. That's one of the reason that I want to move from Mallorca, Over population. I'm good with underpopulation, but I thought that Australia wanted more people.  I'll still try to move to Australia, tough.

[KrisKupsch]

There isn't one best place in Australia to grow Palms. Two places I would rule out as being the best are NQLD and Tasmania, I say NQ as I want to be a little controversial with them up there! All locations have limiting elements. Many a Palm enthusiast works their lives in the southern states then moves to NQLD to retire. NQLD has its limits too. We all know what they are.  Australia's climate is not anything to boast about. Its extreme.  The best tactic is to try in the middle. Not the center of the continent. The Palm in the middle was put there by people. Try the few places where it's not as extreme. Funnily enough it's also where the population is one of the greatest. Anywhere with some privacy, good dirt and orographic rainfall within an hour from the Gold or Sunshine Coasts is the go. NQLD is too easy. You drop something and it keeps growing. Same for a few other places around the world. The climate makes Palms rage regardless. Whilst I have being forced to adapt to my subtropical climate, I have learnt to see its benefits over the constant heat you get in the north. Everything that doesn't die from cold, grows slower. There is stuff that will never grow here but I can get a Rhopalostylis sapida to grow whilst in Cairns it would last a week. Some tropical genera are difficult here although there are rare examples proving they are doable with the proper care and placement. Up north you can plant several tricky species just about anywhere and you'll have success. There is certainly something I prefer about the wet subtropics over the wet tropics. One local mentioned it's our comfortable cooler nights that give the Palms what they like. Burretiokentia hapala will grow in Cairns but suffers in the end, you might get a good one here and there but down here in the subtropics they are simple, as is the entire Burret. genus. The Cane beetles in the north are also something we don't, or at least I don't, get hammered with, being a little disjunct from the monotony Qld is with its cane cultivation thus the beetles and the toads. Land prices are way up there around the Sunshine and Gold Coasts, in the north you find them cheaper and likely a more reliable water supply - but you'll eventually get a tropical cyclone that will tear your collection to shreds. Whilst up there recently I was told on 2 accounts about trees entirely disappearing in tropical storms, not just blown over but gone !

Many of Australia's ecosystems are trashed. All the accessible land with any kind of dirt be it fertile or otherwise is basically farmland, be it crops, sheep or cows (which collectively there are over 100 million of them), we have the highest extinction rate in the world, primarily mammals. Many ecosystems don't even exist anymore. All this in mind there is a housing crisis with a million houses needing to be built and we have the highest migration rate for this year in living memory. In decades. Where will everyone go and what about the environment.