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Zone 9 Palms in NC


BigBilly

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2 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

It looks like they’ve been in ground since at least 2014.

I’m not clear how this is possible unless they’re getting substantial winter protection. Chincoteague doesn’t have that much going for it in terms of a microclimate.

Yeah mean minimum is about 10 and their all time low since 1966 ( data for wallops island only goes that far) is -1 in 2015. Most years are good enough for em to get away with a mature sabal unprotected. This business owner could save time and money had he stuck with some sabals. As for microclimates it is sorrounded by water so could have some milder spots near the water . Still cool to see

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33 minutes ago, PalmsNC said:

Zone 9A is not new to the state actually. On the old map if you zoom in on Hatteras you can see that it had 9A then as well. Not sure if anyone has a nicer source to access the old map

 

https://www.fs.usda.gov/wildflowers/Native_Plant_Materials/Native_Gardening/hardinesszones.shtml

 

 

This is from the 2012 interactive map ..where you can zoom in pretty close. They need to do this w/ the current update.

Screenshot2023-11-19at23-03-04NorthCarolinaInteractive2012USDAPlantHardinessZoneMap.thumb.png.35dbfdac63eb368aee2ee450b7e54371.png

Screenshot2023-11-19at23-05-32NorthCarolinaInteractive2012USDAPlantHardinessZoneMap.thumb.png.e9d398d612a24d2224792a5087f20d68.png

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On 11/16/2023 at 8:29 PM, MarcusH said:

I honestly can't understand why everyone gets so excited about the updated map . The data is from 1991 to 2020.  February 2021 and December 2022 aren’t even in the calculation.  We had some hard freezes during the last few years . There's no change in gardening . Everyone needs to focus on the low temperatures in their area not just the average.  I can have 9b winters for many years but then it goes down to 8b . Man,  February 2021 we had a warm 7b winter and I'm in a cold 9a zone ( former warm 8b)  . So much for sticking to the USDA map . 

Here in North Carolina, we had a record cold event in 2018, similar to your 2021 event. We had a low of 4f here in Raleigh with a week of temps below freezing. But areas between us and the coast saw lows of 0f during the same week of below freezing temps. We also had a low of 2f in 1994, 0f in 1996, 1f in 2000, 7f in 2014 and 2015, 9f in 2017 and that 4f in 2018. So our 30 year averages do include multiple extreme cold events, both recent and from years past.

But you are correct that the zone changes mean nothing for what can and cannot be planted. I blame the nursery industry for that. If they list a plant as being hardy to zone 8a, that plant needs to be able to survive some years with 7b winters and the occasional 7a winter. But that isn't the case. When they list a plant as hardy to zone 8a, what they mean is it is typically hardy down to 10f. But as you can see from the low temp data I provided above, temps below 10f occur frequently enough in our zone 8a that a plant that is only hardy to 10f would be killed here at least once every 10 years, if not more frequently. I know you understand that point but I know there are millions of less experienced gardeners that don't. And they'll end up losing a lot of landscaping money by only using the hardiness zone maps. 

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On 11/18/2023 at 8:56 AM, PalmsNC said:

Hatteras has a mean minimum of 23 and even during 1981-2010 it was zone 9a . Its all time record low is 6 in jan 1985. Second coldest low is 11 in 1982. Compare  that to San Antonio’s which has gotten colder than that in all three winter months . I’ve been hoggin some Palm photos from y’all from the past year , here is a nice fat CIDP on Hatteras as well as a few other things… also last winter here in Zebulon somehow I had a true date palm from the pits my grandmother tossed actually survive a winter… and we dropped to 10. I don’t know how. Sadly it died in the spring when transplanted , it was only a couple small spears but somehow it lived 

 

 

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Very nice CDIP , impressive looking it looks like it's been growing there for a while. There's a CDIP in our neighborhood probably 25 to 30 ft tall . They're very cold hardy , even survived our artic blasts . 

I don't know why people don't plant more palms in your region if winters doesn't get as cold as here . Not like our winters are cold but for certain palms it is. For the most part we get 9a/9b winters with 2 to 3 8b winters in between within 10 years. 

We can grow some cold hardy palms that are absolutely bulletproof in our area. 

Most palms you see here are Washingtonia Filifera/ Filibusta/Robusta , Sabal Mexicana/Palmetto , Butia Capitata and a few CDIPs .

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4 hours ago, knikfar said:

Here in North Carolina, we had a record cold event in 2018, similar to your 2021 event. We had a low of 4f here in Raleigh with a week of temps below freezing. But areas between us and the coast saw lows of 0f during the same week of below freezing temps. We also had a low of 2f in 1994, 0f in 1996, 1f in 2000, 7f in 2014 and 2015, 9f in 2017 and that 4f in 2018. So our 30 year averages do include multiple extreme cold events, both recent and from years past.

But you are correct that the zone changes mean nothing for what can and cannot be planted. I blame the nursery industry for that. If they list a plant as being hardy to zone 8a, that plant needs to be able to survive some years with 7b winters and the occasional 7a winter. But that isn't the case. When they list a plant as hardy to zone 8a, what they mean is it is typically hardy down to 10f. But as you can see from the low temp data I provided above, temps below 10f occur frequently enough in our zone 8a that a plant that is only hardy to 10f would be killed here at least once every 10 years, if not more frequently. I know you understand that point but I know there are millions of less experienced gardeners that don't. And they'll end up losing a lot of landscaping money by only using the hardiness zone maps. 

I don't exactly know what can grow over there I never looked it up to be honest but it appears to be that not many palms can grow in NC. I saw some sabals planted in the ground in and around Charlotte but other than that not many palm trees in that area. 

You came up with some temperatures . My question is are the Outer Banks included ? Hatteras is in 9A but I assume overall temps are higher over there but it gets much colder once in a while compared to San Antonio.  

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47 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

I don't exactly know what can grow over there I never looked it up to be honest but it appears to be that not many palms can grow in NC. I saw some sabals planted in the ground in and around Charlotte but other than that not many palm trees in that area. 

You came up with some temperatures . My question is are the Outer Banks included ? Hatteras is in 9A but I assume overall temps are higher over there but it gets much colder once in a while compared to San Antonio.  

There aren't many palms in in-land North Carolina, including Charlotte. In Raleigh, the most common you'll find are windmill palms followed by sabal minors and then sabals. The JC Arboretum has some pretty large sabals that have been there for 20+ years. We also have sabal Birminghams in several of our City Parks. Those were planted in the late 70s or early 80s so they made it through the cold 1980s here. There are a few scattered med-fan palms, mostly blue form to. Some people were growing butia here for 20 years or so but most those were killed in 2018. I only know of one butia in the area that survived that, surprisingly completely unprotected. Palms become much more common when you head south and east of Raleigh. In Fayetteville, which is just a little over an hour south east of Raleigh, you'll find the famous Fayetteville NC Washingtonia Filibusta. Its been growing there since at least 2007 and has survived several polar plunges, including 2018. Its completely neglected since the building it was planted in front of was torn down years ago. Sabals are also more common in Fayetteville and butias are scattered around to. 

In Wilmington, just under two hours away, you'll find large long established sabals, butias and european fan palms. Right along the coast, Wrightsville Beach, you'll also see some washingtonia mixed in and an occasional canary island date palm. Palms in Wilmington and other areas along the coast are prolific so they can't be missed. With the development of more hardy varieties of sabals (Birminghams, Braziorensis, Kinston form and such) sabals are becoming more common in Raleigh but are still far from common. I'm hoping that will change over time. 

As for the Outer Banks, they along with most of Coastal NC, are in a warmer zone than Raleigh is. So while they probably experienced unusually low lows during the same periods Raleigh did, those lows likely weren't as low as Raleigh. Surprisingly, during the 2018 cold event, the lowest temps were experienced closer to the coast, just a little ways inland. Some areas between Greenville, where East Carolina University is located, and New Bern, where Pepsi was founded, experienced lows around 0f that year. I can't find low temps by year for Cape Hatteras but here is a link for low temps by year for Wilmington and Hatteras is probably slightly warmer: https://www.currentresults.com/Yearly-Weather/USA/NC/Wilmington/extreme-annual-wilmington-low-temperature.php. Here's a link for low temps by year for Raleigh for comparison: https://www.currentresults.com/Yearly-Weather/USA/NC/Raleigh/extreme-annual-raleigh-low-temperature.php

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18 hours ago, MarcusH said:

I don't exactly know what can grow over there I never looked it up to be honest but it appears to be that not many palms can grow in NC. I saw some sabals planted in the ground in and around Charlotte but other than that not many palm trees in that area. 

You came up with some temperatures . My question is are the Outer Banks included ? Hatteras is in 9A but I assume overall temps are higher over there but it gets much colder once in a while compared to San Antonio.  

The Outer Banks are very likely not going to get any days colder than San Antonio because of the ocean (as far as the extreme lows are concerned).

Edited by RFun
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47 minutes ago, RFun said:

The Outer Banks are very likely not going to get any days colder than San Antonio because of the ocean (as far as the extreme lows are concerned).

If that's the case why am I not seeing the amount of palms / different palms in that area ? Gotta be a reason for that. 

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18 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

If that's the case why am I not seeing the amount of palms / different palms in that area ? Gotta be a reason for that. 

People haven't chosen to grow certain varieties there or as much.  There is definitely a limited amount of land available on the Outer Banks.  And plus, the Outer Banks just are not very populated.

Edited by RFun
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On 11/16/2023 at 7:29 PM, MarcusH said:

I honestly can't understand why everyone gets so excited about the updated map . The data is from 1991 to 2020.  February 2021 and December 2022 aren’t even in the calculation.  We had some hard freezes during the last few years . There's no change in gardening . Everyone needs to focus on the low temperatures in their area not just the average.  I can have 9b winters for many years but then it goes down to 8b . Man,  February 2021 we had a warm 7b winter and I'm in a cold 9a zone ( former warm 8b)  . So much for sticking to the USDA map . 

I am in this camp to proceed with any other line of reasoning is basically “experimenting” or accepting the reality of “protecting”. I don’t want to deal with jury rigging apparatuses around my palms and I certainly don’t want dead or devastated looking palms if I forget to preform my protection rituals in time.

Bullet proof to early 20s or you ain’t welcome in my garden. That is the rule.

*Except my Thrinax Radiata but I consider it on borrowed time so we shall see when it meets it’s fate, I have already planned a more Hardy Palm for the eventual space that it will leave.

 

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7 minutes ago, Dwarf Fan said:

I am in this camp to proceed with any other line of reasoning is basically “experimenting” or accepting the reality of “protecting”. I don’t want to deal with jury rigging apparatuses around my palms and I certainly don’t want dead or devastated looking palms if I forget to preform my protection rituals in time.

Bullet proof to early 20s or you ain’t welcome in my garden. That is the rule.

*Except my Thrinax Radiata but I consider it on borrowed time so we shall see when it meets it’s fate, I have already planned a more Hardy Palm for the eventual space that it will leave.

 

Not necessarily.  The length of cold snaps are also a factor in this, not just the low temps.  It isn't so cut and dry like that.  Plus, Brownsville, TX has seen 12F before.  That's not drastically different from where you are.  So, all in all, maybe you should reconsider things.

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8 minutes ago, RFun said:

Not necessarily.  The length of cold snaps are also a factor in this, not just the low temps.  It isn't so cut and dry like that.  Plus, Brownsville, TX has seen 12F before.  That's not drastically different from where you are.  So, all in all, maybe you should reconsider things.

I know right, imagine living in a place that looks like this and refusing to grow zone 9 plants (let alone zone 10) because tHE rECorD LOw is 12F OMG 🤣

These people will never be convinced because the last 3 winters have been cold...until the next 9 winters are warm, suddenly the map will be right? 😆

This is palmtalk afterall..so @@@PLANT MORE PALMS@@@, we're here to enable your addiction!! 😂 Ignore the critics 

20200618_110329.thumb.jpg.3d799d341919aa879b0967f0509ebf40.jpg.db22e717907f0dd5ddf97b80e151b377.jpg

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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6 minutes ago, Xenon said:

These people will never be convinced because the last 3 winters have been cold...until the next 9 winters are warm, suddenly the map will be right? 😆

Yea and in 10 years when the palm gets some size you might be even more in the clear temp wise (in a higher 'zone' for lack of a better term).  I have went from 6b to 7b from 2000ish to 2023 zone maps

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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  18' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia odorata (1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -6F, -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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4 hours ago, Allen said:

Yea and in 10 years when the palm gets some size you might be even more in the clear temp wise (in a higher 'zone' for lack of a better term).  I have went from 6b to 7b from 2000ish to 2023 zone maps

Especially if they're seed grown and you can easily protect them for the first 10.

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8 hours ago, Xenon said:

I know right, imagine living in a place that looks like this and refusing to grow zone 9 plants (let alone zone 10) because tHE rECorD LOw is 12F OMG 🤣

These people will never be convinced because the last 3 winters have been cold...until the next 9 winters are warm, suddenly the map will be right? 😆

This is palmtalk afterall..so @@@PLANT MORE PALMS@@@, we're here to enable your addiction!! 😂 Ignore the critics 

20200618_110329.thumb.jpg.3d799d341919aa879b0967f0509ebf40.jpg.db22e717907f0dd5ddf97b80e151b377.jpg

Is that in cold Texas ? 😉😆 

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On 11/20/2023 at 2:45 PM, MarcusH said:

I don't exactly know what can grow over there I never looked it up to be honest but it appears to be that not many palms can grow in NC. I saw some sabals planted in the ground in and around Charlotte but other than that not many palm trees in that area. 

You came up with some temperatures . My question is are the Outer Banks included ? Hatteras is in 9A but I assume overall temps are higher over there but it gets much colder once in a while compared to San Antonio.  

The record low in hatteras is 6 degrees higher than San Antonio’s . They dont really see the extreme snaps the middle of the country will see. San Antonio is warmer but it has colder extremes 

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8 hours ago, PalmsNC said:

The record low in hatteras is 6 degrees higher than San Antonio’s . They dont really see the extreme snaps the middle of the country will see. San Antonio is warmer but it has colder extremes 

I'm not denying the fact that some days are colder in winter time which doesn't really matter at this point anyway,  we do have plenty of established palm trees growing

for many decades maybe even centuries. The freeze 2021 killed a lot of pure Robustas and palms that shouldn't have been planted here at all . 100 % of all Filifera , 80 % Filibusta,  30% maybe more Robusta,  100% all sabals , 100% Pindo and so on.  What helps our palm survival are short cold snaps followed by warm weather.  Our winters are very short we're are constantly above 75°F in late , early March .  We don't have seasons like you guys have.  I think even with you guys having less extreme colder days ( less than a hand full ) we have better condition to grow different palms long term without protection.  San Antonio is a lot hotter , it stays hotter much longer as well. Our cold season is 2.8 months long. 

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42 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

I'm not denying the fact that some days are colder in winter time which doesn't really matter at this point anyway,  we do have plenty of established palm trees growing

for many decades maybe even centuries. The freeze 2021 killed a lot of pure Robustas and palms that shouldn't have been planted here at all . 100 % of all Filifera , 80 % Filibusta,  30% maybe more Robusta,  100% all sabals , 100% Pindo and so on.  What helps our palm survival are short cold snaps followed by warm weather.  Our winters are very short we're are constantly above 75°F in late , early March .  We don't have seasons like you guys have.  I think even with you guys having less extreme colder days ( less than a hand full ) we have better condition to grow different palms long term without protection.  San Antonio is a lot hotter , it stays hotter much longer as well. Our cold season is 2.8 months long. 

Sorry it's early in the morning . The palms I listed survived at this percentage.  Shouldn't write at 4am lol . 

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3 hours ago, MarcusH said:

I'm not denying the fact that some days are colder in winter time which doesn't really matter at this point anyway,  we do have plenty of established palm trees growing

for many decades maybe even centuries. The freeze 2021 killed a lot of pure Robustas and palms that shouldn't have been planted here at all . 100 % of all Filifera , 80 % Filibusta,  30% maybe more Robusta,  100% all sabals , 100% Pindo and so on.  What helps our palm survival are short cold snaps followed by warm weather.  Our winters are very short we're are constantly above 75°F in late , early March .  We don't have seasons like you guys have.  I think even with you guys having less extreme colder days ( less than a hand full ) we have better condition to grow different palms long term without protection.  San Antonio is a lot hotter , it stays hotter much longer as well. Our cold season is 2.8 months long. 

Doesn't appear to be the case based on the latest pictures I've seen from San Antonio (regarding the palm situation from the 2021 freeze).  I'm not going to say which location is more ideal for palm growing.  I think that varies depending on the variety you're growing.

Edited by RFun
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8 hours ago, RFun said:

Doesn't appear to be the case based on the latest pictures I've seen from San Antonio (regarding the palm situation from the 2021 freeze).  I'm not going to say which location is more ideal for palm growing.  I think that varies depending on the variety you're growing.

Are we talking about the same San Antonio?  San Antonio Texas? Not trying to be rude or so but I have to say your observations are far from reality.  

While palms are being planted infrequently in San Antonio there're many palms in and around San Antonio with Washingtonia Filifera and Sabal Mexicana/ Palmetto dominating SA metro.  Still quite a lot of Washingtonia Robustas left but not nearly as much as it used to be.  

Besides downtown especially our Riverwalk most palms are planted on private properties and some businesses.  Not many palms were planted along highways or other public roads like you would see in Florida for instance.  We aren't playing in the same ballpark .

But they're thousands of palms in and around SA and the number is rapidly growing . Lots of palms were planted shortly before and after February 2021, still small size and not really noticeable in most cases. 

February 2021 was an event that only happens once in 100 years . It was very unique to Texas.  We get some bad freezes every 30 to 50 years but really won't reset the landscape.  2021 did.  The palms I listed earlier, expect Robustas ( can be a little iffy when it gets to the low teens ) ,are absolutely bulletproof in San Antonio.  Sometimes when it gets below 20F the fronds burn but grow back to a nice crown in a few months.  That only happens 2 to 3 times in 10 years. Very few pictures left on my phone that I took in mid summer.  When I get a chance I'll take more pictures of palms in our area. You'll be surprised.  

 

 

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Edited by MarcusH
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14 hours ago, MarcusH said:

Are we talking about the same San Antonio?  San Antonio Texas? Not trying to be rude or so but I have to say your observations are far from reality.  

While palms are being planted infrequently in San Antonio there're many palms in and around San Antonio with Washingtonia Filifera and Sabal Mexicana/ Palmetto dominating SA metro.  Still quite a lot of Washingtonia Robustas left but not nearly as much as it used to be.  

Besides downtown especially our Riverwalk most palms are planted on private properties and some businesses.  Not many palms were planted along highways or other public roads like you would see in Florida for instance.  We aren't playing in the same ballpark .

But they're thousands of palms in and around SA and the number is rapidly growing . Lots of palms were planted shortly before and after February 2021, still small size and not really noticeable in most cases. 

February 2021 was an event that only happens once in 100 years . It was very unique to Texas.  We get some bad freezes every 30 to 50 years but really won't reset the landscape.  2021 did.  The palms I listed earlier, expect Robustas ( can be a little iffy when it gets to the low teens ) ,are absolutely bulletproof in San Antonio.  Sometimes when it gets below 20F the fronds burn but grow back to a nice crown in a few months.  That only happens 2 to 3 times in 10 years. Very few pictures left on my phone that I took in mid summer.  When I get a chance I'll take more pictures of palms in our area. You'll be surprised.  

 

 

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I'm sorry, but I took it as you were saying 100% of all Filiferas, Sabals and Pindos were killed.  That just isn't the case from the pics I've seen.

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39 minutes ago, RFun said:

I'm sorry, but I took it as you were saying 100% of all Filiferas, Sabals and Pindos were killed.  That just isn't the case from the pics I've seen.

My English isn't perfect I'm German lol I was like what ? Nevermind it's all good. 

Off topic I remember going to Virginia Beach back in 2018. They have Sabal Palmettos planted along Atlantic Blvd . Do they still cover those in winter ? I would assume they would do fine without protection and everything further south of Virginia Beach should be bulletproof like OB 

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4 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

My English isn't perfect I'm German lol I was like what ? Nevermind it's all good. 

Off topic I remember going to Virginia Beach back in 2018. They have Sabal Palmettos planted along Atlantic Blvd . Do they still cover those in winter ? I would assume they would do fine without protection and everything further south of Virginia Beach should be bulletproof like OB 

No problem.  Yes, Virginia Beach is a nice area for cold hardy palms.  The further south you go along the coast, the better it gets.

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An interesting map this morning of current temperatures. The one that sticks out like a sore thumb? The 61 degrees in the outer banks. 

IMG_6662.png

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1 hour ago, JohnT said:

An interesting map this morning of current temperatures. The one that sticks out like a sore thumb? The 61 degrees in the outer banks. 

IMG_6662.png

The Outer Banks can be quite the anomaly sometimes lol.  The front is coming through so the temps should stay in the 40's during the day during Tuesday and Wednesday.  The lows are supposed to be above freezing.

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^More like the 77 in Miami on that map, with SFL usually being the haha spot during whole country cold spells. 

Buxton, NC is the town at Cape Hatteras as far as googling 'weather buxton nc' or using the nearest weather channel result for 'weather cape hatteras'. 

Nantucket had a freeze already, upper 20s at worst. They will freeze again on Tuesday, but the peak OBX, the southern and outer Outer Banks, should easily stay above freezing, mid 30s at worst and with the dewpoint remaining above 25, vs going below 20 in southern new england, as it already has. Even in Nantucket, the air can be very dry for a somewhat 'oceanic' location. 50% humidity at freezing temps with strong continental wind. 

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On 11/16/2023 at 9:17 PM, palmtreeguy said:

The interactive zoomable map is here:

https://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/

 

Zone 9a in NC stretches from Cape Lookout along the outer banks up to Corolla, NC which is only 12 miles south of VA.

Thanks for the link! And wow, you really have to zoom in to see it, but it's there. I know folks have been growing some zone 9 palms there for a while now like Phoenix canariensis and Phoenix dactylifera..... They get damaged by cold winter wind and salt spray, and there is the occasional defoliation, but they're there and trunking. I'm in zone 8a and have many Phoenix dactyliferas that came from the compost pile where I throw date pits. They freeze back every winter so I consider them to be very small perennials here.

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On 11/23/2023 at 8:01 AM, MarcusH said:

My English isn't perfect I'm German lol I was like what ? Nevermind it's all good. 

Off topic I remember going to Virginia Beach back in 2018. They have Sabal Palmettos planted along Atlantic Blvd . Do they still cover those in winter ? I would assume they would do fine without protection and everything further south of Virginia Beach should be bulletproof like OB 

You are absolutely right. I think many hotel owners continue to wrap the palmettos out of fear that they will perish during the establishment phase. The mature palmettos transplanted from Florida take years to fully establish themselves in Virginia Beach and can be vulnerable to freezes during this time. The problem is that in order to wrap the newly planted palmettos, they often remove leaves, reducing photosynthetic area, and the plastic they use does nothing aside from trap moisture and cook the palm on warm days. Combine this with salt exposure, improper watering, chronic over-pruning, and lack of organic matter in the soil, and it becomes difficult to establish mature palms in Virginia Beach, especially considering that these individual palms are often taken from swamps or pine forests in Florida.... That said, there are many mature Sabal palmettos throughout Virginia that made it through the establishment phase unprotected and continue to thrive for decades. I have also found that planting smaller, container-grown Sabal palmettos anywhere in southeast Virginia reduces the establishment phase to a single growing season, so there's no need to protect them. Palmetto seeds that sprout naturally in SE Virginia are also fully hardy.

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23 hours ago, Virginia Palmetto said:

You are absolutely right. I think many hotel owners continue to wrap the palmettos out of fear that they will perish during the establishment phase. The mature palmettos transplanted from Florida take years to fully establish themselves in Virginia Beach and can be vulnerable to freezes during this time. The problem is that in order to wrap the newly planted palmettos, they often remove leaves, reducing photosynthetic area, and the plastic they use does nothing aside from trap moisture and cook the palm on warm days. Combine this with salt exposure, improper watering, chronic over-pruning, and lack of organic matter in the soil, and it becomes difficult to establish mature palms in Virginia Beach, especially considering that these individual palms are often taken from swamps or pine forests in Florida.... That said, there are many mature Sabal palmettos throughout Virginia that made it through the establishment phase unprotected and continue to thrive for decades. I have also found that planting smaller, container-grown Sabal palmettos anywhere in southeast Virginia reduces the establishment phase to a single growing season, so there's no need to protect them. Palmetto seeds that sprout naturally in SE Virginia are also fully hardy.

Depending on the duration they are wrapped, they are likely doing more harm than good by wrapping them.  Really, it should be hands off there (unless there is some rare event).

Edited by RFun
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On 11/30/2023 at 5:36 PM, RFun said:

Depending on the duration they are wrapped, they are likely doing more harm than good by wrapping them.  Really, it should be hands off there (unless there is some rare event).

My thoughts exactly. It should only be a last resort for newly planted palmettos during extreme cold weather events, and only for the duration of the cold snap. in 2018 we got very close to our record low here in Chesapeake, yet all healthy/established palmettos made it through fine. The only ones that didn't make it were already suffering from chronic over-pruning or were recently planted mature specimens. Like you said though, aside from such rare events, it should be hands off.

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